Athletic article - comments from NFL people on AFC draft classes

[GoBills808]

1 minute ago, Kirby Jackson said:

He played with a top 3 TE all time and a top 3 WR all time. He had a good OL. He had Corey Dillon in his prime. He had elite slot receivers. He went to Tampa and had Evans and Godwin. Brady had at least 3 pass catchers that are in, or going to, the HOF. Moss, Gronk and Evans are either in Canton or going. 

yeah he had multiple future HoF on offense and a defense to match

 

thats a pretty tough rewrite of history

[SoonerBillsFan]

17 minutes ago, Turk71 said:

Unfortunately Coleman was not very good vs press man and single coverage.

Being bigger doesn't necessarily make you better at getting off the line, Troy Franklin at 180 lbs was top 2 yprr vs press man and top 3 vs single.  Footwork and hands are what beat the press.

Footwork and hands can be taught.  100% truth, I thought we were taking Franklin at 33.  I guess the rumors of not sure if he loves Football enough to make it in the pros along with bad interviews was right.

[SoonerBillsFan]

12 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

He played with a top 3 TE all time and a top 3 WR all time. He had a good OL. He had Corey Dillon in his prime. He had elite slot receivers. He went to Tampa and had Evans and Godwin. Brady had at least 3 pass catchers that are in, or going to, the HOF. Moss, Gronk and Evans are either in Canton or going. 

Agreed on Gronk, moss was there 3 years.  He made two solid slot guys into all pros. Dillon?  Come on Bills fam... lol.

 

Great QB's have to make wr's better. NE was awesome at adapting amd modifying or changing systems up. Each time Brady made his guys great.  Time for Allen to do the same and I think he will.

[GoBills808]

13 minutes ago, SoonerBillsFan said:

Agreed on Gronk, moss was there 3 years.  He made two solid slot guys into all pros. Dillon?  Come on Bills fam... lol.

 

Great QB's have to make wr's better. NE was awesome at adapting amd modifying or changing systems up. Each time Brady made his guys great.  Time for Allen to do the same and I think he will.

Diggs, Brown, Beasley all had career numbers playing here. Davis got his bag too

 

heck Allen made Robert Foster look like an NFL player for a season

[FireChans]

1 hour ago, SoonerBillsFan said:

So who were we drafting to break the high cover 2 shell? Worthy? Nope not even Hill can do that against us, amd no one in the draft was going to in cold weather.

Which other than Moss, Tom Brady did that in NE.

“Josh, play like the GOAT QB” is a bad plan lol

[ToGoGo]

9 hours ago, SoonerBillsFan said:

Agreed on Gronk, moss was there 3 years.  He made two solid slot guys into all pros. Dillon?  Come on Bills fam... lol.

 

Great QB's have to make wr's better. NE was awesome at adapting amd modifying or changing systems up. Each time Brady made his guys great.  Time for Allen to do the same and I think he will.

Agree. Welker was a special teams ace in Miami. He became a HOF with Brady/Ernie Adams. 

[Kirby Jackson]

9 hours ago, SoonerBillsFan said:

Agreed on Gronk, moss was there 3 years.  He made two solid slot guys into all pros. Dillon?  Come on Bills fam... lol.

 

Great QB's have to make wr's better. NE was awesome at adapting amd modifying or changing systems up. Each time Brady made his guys great.  Time for Allen to do the same and I think he will.

He also had Antonio Brown (another HOFer). 
 

Corey Dillon won the rushing title in his first year in New England. He scored 39 TDS in his 3 years there. He was a beast 20 years ago. You might be too young to remember that.

 

Of course QBs elevate WRs. No one is arguing that. The problem that I have is, why would you have Josh Allen trying to elevate guys like John Brown, Cole Beasley, Kelvin Benjamin, Gabe Davis, Robert Foster, etc instead of drafting guys early with more ability? If you have Josh Allen, don’t force him to raise average players. Give him some elite talent and let it raise further (like they did with Diggs). 
 

When Diggs got here he was a borderline Pro Bowl WR. In his 4 years he went to 4 pro bowls, was an all pro and had 4 seasons of 100 plus catches. Those were the top 4 seasons in terms of receptions in Buffalo Bills history. He also turned out the top 2 yardage seasons and the top TD season. He’s arguably the best WR that the Bills have ever had. He’s not the most talented (but he’s quite talented). That’s kind of what I’m referring to. Give Josh top 20ish talents and watch them become top 5 guys and an elite offense. They’re asking him to elevate top 75-100 guys (Kincaid excluded).

Edited May 6 by Kirby Jackson

[SoonerBillsFan]

30 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

He also had Antonio Brown (another HOFer). 
 

Corey Dillon won the rushing title in his first year in New England. He scored 39 TDS in his 3 years there. He was a beast 20 years ago. You might be too young to remember that.

 

Of course QBs elevate WRs. No one is arguing that. The problem that I have is, why would you have Josh Allen trying to elevate guys like John Brown, Cole Beasley, Kelvin Benjamin, Gabe Davis, Robert Foster, etc instead of drafting guys early with more ability? If you have Josh Allen, don’t force him to raise average players. Give him some elite talent and let it raise further (like they did with Diggs). 
 

When Diggs got here he was a borderline Pro Bowl WR. In his 4 years he went to 4 pro bowls, was an all pro and had 4 seasons of 100 plus catches. Those were the top 4 seasons in terms of receptions in Buffalo Bills history. He also turned out the top 2 yardage seasons and the top TD season. He’s arguably the best WR that the Bills have ever had. He’s not the most talented (but he’s quite talented). That’s kind of what I’m referring to. Give Josh top 20ish talents and watch them become top 5 guys and an elite offense. They’re asking him to elevate top 75-100 guys (Kincaid excluded).

For some reason. This regime just says "go do it josh".  If this keeps up, I see a scenario where Josh ends up leaving.  His only desire is a superbowl win...then more wins.

[Billl]

30 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

He also had Antonio Brown (another HOFer). 

Yeah, the one game Brown played in NE plus the 7 (6.5) he played in Tampa before quitting in the middle of a game really took Brady’s career to the next level.  

[T master]

On 5/3/2024 at 9:52 AM, Sweats said:

Wait till the 1st time Worthy gets hit by a LB and then tell me how good he is again.

 

I was thinking the exact same thing !! I pictured him doing a route coming around behind Mahomes and him putting a swing pass out to him & out of no where here comes Millano to lay the wood like he did on the Jets QB that year and see how fast the dude gets up from that when the entire game the Bills are tagging that dude ...

[JerseyBills]

On 5/3/2024 at 10:27 AM, Logic said:

Thanks.

I always love the "comments from league execs and coaches" articles. They're awesome.

Unfortunately, the comments about Coleman and Worthy match my own feelings. And the statement "there is now a big difference in the amount of speed around Mahomes and the amount of speed around Josh Allen". Yep. Not great, Bob. 

I mean Shakir,Cook are 4.4 , Samuel 4.3.  If they can get a guy like Hamler to produce I really don't think there's this huge difference.  

Coleman adds a different dimension,  ppl get way to caught up on speed, it's simply 1 important attribute out of many

Our biggest issue hasn't been speed, it has been injuries/availability last cpl years

Edited May 6 by JerseyBills

[Sharky7337]

On 5/3/2024 at 10:36 AM, PBF81 said:

Or long-term plan is really starting to round out, at least we're getting some formal clarity.  

 

Draft the biggest arm in the game and someone that's destined for the HoF, then focus on becoming a power running team featuring a shorter passing game with a defense that washes out in the playoffs.  

 

It's a brilliant strategy some say.  

 

Good thing we have Allen's arm.  When he's 48 he'll still be able to hit all those routes.  

 

 

But don't you dare ever make a post that questions this logic or you'll get flamed by the weirdos.

[BillsVet]

18 hours ago, blacklabel said:

These takes about Beane leaving Josh hanging in terms of the players around him are...something, I guess. Two straight drafts now they've spent their first pick in the guy Josh wanted. He wanted Kincaid last year, they jump up a couple spots and give him Kincaid. He wanted Coleman this year, they give him Coleman while being able to gain more draft capital in the process. 

 

Some of y'all are hung up on the speed thing. John Brown, Isaiah McKenzie, Deonte Harty, even tried to get a guy like Tavon Austin going again, now they have KJ Hamler to see if he can bounce back. Aside from Brown, the speedster guy hasn't really had much impact for this team. 

 

Some of y'all said they didn't give him a #1 WR. They went out and got Diggs for him. 

 

Oh, they don't have a decent enough run game to take pressure off him. They've drafted Singletary, Moss, Cook, and now Davis. Singletary was fine, Moss didn't quite work out, Cook really came on last season and if you can't get behind a guy like Ray Davis then I don't know what to tell you. 

 

It's clear that some of you are locked into your stance on this regime and no matter what they do, they're always gonna fall short of your ever changing expectations. 

 

I dunno, man, but for me, in the grand scheme of things this is still just a game. A highly entertaining game that can be a lot of fun and I know a lot of people are very passionate about their teams. Maybe I'm just an old fart but these days it's much easier for me to sit back with the wait and see approach and not get worked up about this draft pick or this trade or which guy KC got and blah blah blah. I'm guessing some of you didn't live through the drought years where there was real, actual incompetence running the show. That is not the case with this front office. 

 

The issue is philosophical now and has been for a few years.  This latest draft put it out in the open, but it's actually been a common theme McBeane's whole 7 years.  

 

First thing McD was saying after the 2020 Bills scored 500 points and made the AFC CG was he thought the offense needed to run it better.  In the ensuing 2 drafts they used 0 picks in RD1-3 on WR or TE as Brown and Beasley declined.   

 

And they did run the ball decent later, but the offense was overall worse because their passing game declined.  Compare their scoring from 2020 to 2021 to 2022 to last season.  

 

I'd expect a team to revisit their philosophy every off-season and ask whether it's working.  This team though has a habit of running things back because innovating isn't their strong suit.  3 straight divisional round losses point to it not being.  

 

I think @Kirby Jackson had it right that anyone could get this team to 10-11 wins and perhaps 1 playoff win with Josh.  Besides, the people who lazily compare this result to the drought years are just spewing sophistry into the discussion.  It's not an either or of the drought performance or this.  It's about getting beyond where they've been 3 years running and winning the SB.  If you're content with increasingly worse divisional round losses, then go for it.  Most fans with Josh aren't anymore.  

[EastTNBillsfan]

12 hours ago, Saint Doug said:

I personally like the makeup of this offense. If you want to go watch fast Smurfs, you can watch Miami. Not only do we have a QB that will run over a linebacker, we now have WR/TEs and RBs to run through them. This offense will wear defenses into the ground. And once that happens, Josh can throw some daggers, ones only he can throw, to put them out of their misery. 

Very well said.  This is my thoughts on the matter at this point as well.  Did I want Thomas Jr...yes I did.  But after taking Coleman in the 2nd and Davis in the 4th, it became evident to me that we are finally embracing the idea of having a team that can punch people in the mouth every play and can perform well in the wind and the cold.  We'll see if it pans out...but they wanted to get physical.  I think Josh also told the FO that's he's tired of guys dropping balls that should be caught in key situations.  Those drops are no longer on the roster.

53 minutes ago, JerseyBills said:

I mean Shakir,Cook are 4.4 , Samuel 4.3.  If they can get a guy like Hamler to produce I really don't think there's this huge difference.  

Coleman adds a different dimension,  ppl get way to caught up on speed, it's simply 1 important attribute out of many

Our biggest issue hasn't been speed, it has been injuries/availability last cpl years

And don't forget the drops...

[dave mcbride]

11 hours ago, SoonerBillsFan said:

Agreed on Gronk, moss was there 3 years.  He made two solid slot guys into all pros. Dillon?  Come on Bills fam... lol.

 

Great QB's have to make wr's better. NE was awesome at adapting amd modifying or changing systems up. Each time Brady made his guys great.  Time for Allen to do the same and I think he will.

You shouldn't laugh about Corey Dillon, who has a very strong HOF case: https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/D/DillCo00.htm. He is ranked 19th in rushing yards all time. 

[WNYFAN1]

19 hours ago, blacklabel said:

These takes about Beane leaving Josh hanging in terms of the players around him are...something, I guess. Two straight drafts now they've spent their first pick in the guy Josh wanted. He wanted Kincaid last year, they jump up a couple spots and give him Kincaid. He wanted Coleman this year, they give him Coleman while being able to gain more draft capital in the process. 

 

Some of y'all are hung up on the speed thing. John Brown, Isaiah McKenzie, Deonte Harty, even tried to get a guy like Tavon Austin going again, now they have KJ Hamler to see if he can bounce back. Aside from Brown, the speedster guy hasn't really had much impact for this team. 

 

Some of y'all said they didn't give him a #1 WR. They went out and got Diggs for him. 

 

Oh, they don't have a decent enough run game to take pressure off him. They've drafted Singletary, Moss, Cook, and now Davis. Singletary was fine, Moss didn't quite work out, Cook really came on last season and if you can't get behind a guy like Ray Davis then I don't know what to tell you. 

 

It's clear that some of you are locked into your stance on this regime and no matter what they do, they're always gonna fall short of your ever changing expectations. 

 

I dunno, man, but for me, in the grand scheme of things this is still just a game. A highly entertaining game that can be a lot of fun and I know a lot of people are very passionate about their teams. Maybe I'm just an old fart but these days it's much easier for me to sit back with the wait and see approach and not get worked up about this draft pick or this trade or which guy KC got and blah blah blah. I'm guessing some of you didn't live through the drought years where there was real, actual incompetence running the show. That is not the case with this front office. 

So is Josh the GM?

[BillsShredder83]

On 5/3/2024 at 10:40 AM, BuffaloBill said:

I like the idea that the Bills are getting “heavier.”  The trend is for defenses to get lighter so There is a zig and zag league aspect to this.  Josh can throw the ball all day long but the Bills will be much better with a dependable run game.  I do not see the Bills going heavy run, maybe its 60 / 40 pass.  The issue is whether that 40 consistently gets meaningful yards.

Yep. Not saying nobody else did call it, but I said it last year pre draft. RB's and run game are coming back around as more relevant. 5 years of these smaller LBers being asked to cover routes more than ever, and playing in the run game was just a bonus to teams (sounds backwards for a LB).

 

Outta that we saw teams in 2022 (edit: not 2022, but 2021*) like colts, browns, tenn, ne, all bringing a tough running game out. Those teams had conceded they don't have top notch qb play, we g2 change up our attack at what we CAN do, that other teams DONT do well.

 

First round comes around and save for NE, those were all the teams that nobody wanted to draw round 1. They didn't fit the mould and it made them a dangerous 1st rd draw.

 

Fast forward few more years of the light LBer and S era, we've built a solid pass block team with some nasties up front that specialize in run game. Everything in this league is in cycles and I think we're in great shape.

 

Josh is Josh and he's got weapons set to improve, but giving him a nice run game (no we're not run first 🙄) is going to pay dividends!

Edited May 6 by BillsShredder83

[FireChans]

2 minutes ago, BillsShredder83 said:

Yep. Not saying nobody else did call it, but I said it last year pre draft. RB's and run game are coming back around as more relevant. 5 years of these smaller LBers being asked to cover routes more than ever, and playing in the run game was just a bonus to teams (sounds backwards for a LB).

 

Outta that we saw teams in 2022 like colts, browns, tenn, ne, all bringing a tough running game out. Those teams had conceded they don't have top notch qb play, we g2 change up our attack at what we CAN do, that other teams DONT do well.

 

First round comes around and save for NE, those were all the teams that nobody wanted to draw round 1. They didn't fit the mould and it made them a dangerous 1st rd draw.

 

Fast forward few more years of the light LBer and S era, we've built a solid pass block team with some nasties up front that specialize in run game. Everything in this league is in cycles and I think we're in great shape.

 

Josh is Josh and he's got weapons set to improve, but giving him a nice run game (no we're not run first 🙄) is going to pay dividends!

The 2022 Titans went 7-10 with the 28th ranked offense in points scored.

 

the 2022 Colts went 4-12-1 with the 30th ranked offense in points scored.

 

The 2022 Browns went 7-10 with the 18th ranked offense in points scored.

 

These are the teams that brought a tough running game out?

[oldmanfan]

On 5/3/2024 at 10:36 AM, PBF81 said:

Or long-term plan is really starting to round out, at least we're getting some formal clarity.  

 

Draft the biggest arm in the game and someone that's destined for the HoF, then focus on becoming a power running team featuring a shorter passing game with a defense that washes out in the playoffs.  

 

It's a brilliant strategy some say.  

 

Good thing we have Allen's arm.  When he's 48 he'll still be able to hit all those routes.  

 

 

I keep bringing this up, but in the entire league last year about 1% of passes traveled 40 yards or more in the air.  Offenses are not based on long bombs.  Allen's arm strength is shown when he can get passes into very tight windows and such.  And getting better runners will take the pressure off Josh to run, which will theoretically extend his career.

 

Mahomes has a big arm too, but the Chiefs offense is not based on long passes and they are very successful.  When are you going to realize your complaints about the offense around Josh are simply off-base?

[BillsShredder83]

16 minutes ago, FireChans said:

The 2022 Titans went 7-10 with the 28th ranked offense in points scored.

 

the 2022 Colts went 4-12-1 with the 30th ranked offense in points scored.

 

The 2022 Browns went 7-10 with the 18th ranked offense in points scored.

 

These are the teams that brought a tough running game out?

my bad, im thinking 2021 lol  was the year the Colts beat us senseless on Thanksgiving (they ended up barely missing playoffs and there was a lot of relief around here)

 

none of those teams were phenomenal.  but thats the key, they were heavily flawed teams that ran the ball extremely well. you looked at their qb's and wr's and knew those guys werent going to kill you, but their run games were the type of 7th seed that could knock someone out. their run game was a MISMATCH for the new types of LB'ers S's and even a lot of these pass rush specialist IDL. a wrench in the cog of teams built to beat all the other top teams built the polar opposite.  so yes, i absolutely look forward to this team taking a Minors Degree in smashmouth run game. another tool in the bag