Did we do enough at wide receiver?

[Dr. Who]

24 minutes ago, sven233 said:

The quick answer is NO and I have a feeling we will be entering the 2025 draft still in search for our WR1.  Unless there is a trade at some point, which Beane has already says is not on the horizon for now, it's going to be tough out there at times.  Kincaid will have to carry this team much like Kelce carries the Chiefs for us to be successful consistently this season..

Does SF loading up on WR in the draft suggest that Aiyuk might be available through a post 6/1 trade? I'm reduced to hoping for slim possibility narratives . . . when 2025 gets here, the same crowd that was preaching holes on defense will want to go get an edge or cb in the first. And I don't trust Beane and McD not to agree with them.

[JBI$111]

Terry telling McDermott, enough, no more rotational defensive players every year with all of our draft picks that are generally mediocre and suck. Next year we're finally drafting offense and a vertical fast wide receiver threat to help Josh! lol

 

https://linksharing.samsungcloud.com/5eB8KScIGb8P

 

[BillsFanForever19]

If the season started immediately after the Draft or we had a crystal ball that said there won't be any more additions before Week 1 - then, no. We wouldn't have done enough.

 

But it's only April. And we still have 10+m coming in a month. I've justifiably taken flack and embarrassed myself in the past for having taken Beane at face value when he's said things (ie Nyheim Hines and Stefon Diggs not going anywhere). So why are we all ready to accept his word as gospel now?

 

Last season, he said the same type of things about liking our Defensive End room. Then he went and signed Leonard Floyd in June.

 

Ultimately, what I see it coming down to was that looking at what we've done this offseason with Samuel replacing Harty and Hollins replacing Sherfield (and having a 5th Round Pick in Shorter coming off Redshirt from Last Season, to go along with Shakir) - we had the core covered outside of the starters on the Boundary - needing replacements for Diggs and Davis.

 

Acquiring two WR's in the Draft that you'd feel comfortable both starting really wasn't feasible. You could get one, which we did in Coleman (whether you're a fan of him or not, that was who the brass and Josh wanted and believed in). Even if we could have, this brass is too conservative to trust both starting spots to young men with no experience at the NFL level.

 

From Pick 60 onwards - 11 WR's had already come off the board and there was no one available that i'd feel comfortable starting on the Outside, let alone them. Anyone drafted from 60 onwards would simply be someone who would replace Hollins or Shorter - underneath Shakir and Samuel on the bottom of the roster and with limited reps.

 

Could you argue that we should have moved on from Shorter without him developing after his redshirt year and after spending a 5th on him last year? Or replaced Hollins a month after signing him? That's a fair conversation to have. But throwing investments away generally isn't his M.O. (whether you agree with it or not).

 

But I digress. I feel it ultimately came down to them deciding not so much that we were good to go after Drafting Coleman. But that the only other unaccounted for hole left in the core was better served with another vet than another Rookie, especially with what was left at 60 and beyond.

 

I expect that to come from a Free Agent or a Trade for someone on a short term contract that wouldn't cost a fortune in Draft Compensation or money. While I wouldn't be opposed to something like Higgins or Aiyuk - I do tend to believe he's not lying when he says he's not interested in trading premium picks for the privelage of handing out a new long term contract at the kind of money they would cost this year.

 

Whether you feel something like adding a Michael Gallup, Odell Beckham Jr., DJ Chark, Michael Thomas, MVS, or Mecole Hardman is still not enough or not - i'd expect at least that, regardless of what he said at the Post-Draft presser. 

Edited April 29 by BillsFanForever19

[Juice_32]

On 4/27/2024 at 7:07 PM, Big Blitz said:

Because Davis stunk and Diggs quit mid season someone tell me with a straight face that last year’s group was better?

 

We played almost a whole season with our supposed WR1 having quit on this team.  
 

I'll take these young hungry guys and Kincaid over that and Coleman just might be that WR1 right away who knows.  

This is why I’m optimistic. We’ve already had the luxury of seeing what the 2024 offense will look like. If the second half of the season didn’t go down the way it did, I’d think Beane was losing his mind.
 

But, the day they stopped forcing the ball to Diggs…we got better. Kincaid, Cook and Shakir are a year older and wiser, we've replaced Harty with Hamler, added Samuel and added a big body rookie. These guys catch the ball, block and do so without the narcissism. I’m excited.

[BananaB]

Not even close. Beane gambling on Shakir handling a heavier workload  like he did with McKenzie and Davis. 😩 

Then adds one WR in one of the best WR classes in years. 🤦 

You can’t teach stupid. Can’t wait until him and McD are fired 

Edited April 29 by BananaB

[skibum]

On paper, we still have one of the worst WR rooms in the NFL. So the answer is No. 

[Ayjent]

Coleman at least addressed the position, not that it would've been my pick with Mitchell still there, but if the Bills are looking for a more physical team I get it (and not sure what truth there wast to the smoke about diabetes and not taking to coaching that was out there about Mitchell the weeks prior to the draft).  Bishop made sense at 60.  Where Beane lost me was with DT, then RB.  They had options to take another shot at WR just to bolster the WR room and improve their chances that one of then shows out and becomes a substantial answer to the WR questions that they created.  We're set with starters at DT, so Carter is depth at best.  Cook and Johnson were a good 1-2 punch, so Davis is looking to compete for RB2.  I don't hate the Davis pick either, but if you are serious about filling the void you created at WR you've got to take more than one swing.

Edited April 29 by Ayjent

[Cash]

9 hours ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

If the season started immediately after the Draft or we had a crystal ball that said there won't be any more additions before Week 1 - then, no. We wouldn't have done enough.

 

But it's only April. And we still have 10+m coming in a month. I've justifiably taken flack and embarrassed myself in the past for having taken Beane at face value when he's said things (ie Nyheim Hines and Stefon Diggs not going anywhere). So why are we all ready to accept his word as gospel now?

 

Last season, he said the same type of things about liking our Defensive End room. Then he went and signed Leonard Floyd in June.

 

Ultimately, what I see it coming down to was that looking at what we've done this offseason with Samuel replacing Harty and Hollins replacing Sherfield (and having a 5th Round Pick in Shorter coming off Redshirt from Last Season, to go along with Shakir) - we had the core covered outside of the starters on the Boundary - needing replacements for Diggs and Davis.

 

Acquiring two WR's in the Draft that you'd feel comfortable both starting really wasn't feasible. You could get one, which we did in Coleman (whether you're a fan of him or not, that was who the brass and Josh wanted and believed in). Even if we could have, this brass is too conservative to trust both starting spots to young men with no experience at the NFL level.

 

From Pick 60 onwards - 11 WR's had already come off the board and there was no one available that i'd feel comfortable starting on the Outside, let alone them. Anyone drafted from 60 onwards would simply be someone who would replace Hollins or Shorter - underneath Shakir and Samuel on the bottom of the roster and with limited reps.

 

Could you argue that we should have moved on from Shorter without him developing after his redshirt year and after spending a 5th on him last year? Or replaced Hollins a month after signing him? That's a fair conversation to have. But throwing investments away generally isn't his M.O. (whether you agree with it or not).

 

But I digress. I feel it ultimately came down to them deciding not so much that we were good to go after Drafting Coleman. But that the only other unaccounted for hole left in the core was better served with another vet than another Rookie, especially with what was left at 60 and beyond.

 

I expect that to come from a Free Agent or a Trade for someone on a short term contract that wouldn't cost a fortune in Draft Compensation or money. While I wouldn't be opposed to something like Higgins or Aiyuk - I do tend to believe he's not lying when he says he's not interested in handing out a massive new long term contract this offseason.

 

Whether you feel something like adding a Michael Gallup, Odell Beckham Jr., DJ Chark, Michael Thomas, MVS, or Mecole Hardman is still not enough or not - i'd expect at least that, regardless of what he said at the Post-Draft presser. 

Good post! It seems like you’re convinced we’ll sign a vet after June 1st. I tend to agree, but I have more doubt. After listening to Beane’s press conference, specifically when he was asked about June 1 money, he went into a lot of specifics. The overall gist was that we have less $$$ than it looks (so don’t get your hopes up). My personal takeaways:

-Beane definitely wants to sign more Floyd-types, but there’s only so much he can do, and even less that he’s willing to do

-He might be worried that we’ll only have the budget for 1 guy. I doubt he’s willing to go heavy into void years for multiple guys

-That 1 guy might wind up a pass rusher 

 

I still think it’s most likely that they make a real effort to sign Beckham, and maybe sign a Chark/Gallup/Thomas if they don’t get Beckham. But it wouldn’t shock me if they decide that those last 3 aren’t a significant upgrade over the guys they already have. 

[warrior9]

Was this enough in the pre-season last year?

 

-Rashee Rice

-MVS

-Skyy Moore

-Kadarius Toney

-Justyn Ross

-Justin Watson

-Montrell Washington

 

People need to relax. We have Josh Allen. We lost a guy in our room that did nothing the last 6 weeks of the year. We lost a blocking WR. We still have Josh Allen. 

 

This year is going to hinge heavily on Joe Brady, IMO. 

[Sweats]

Well, Beane and our FO seem to think we've done enough and if it's alright with them, then it's alright with me........i'm no GM and whatever they've done up to this point, seems to be working, albeit haphazardly, but i can only hope they know what they are doing to get us over the hump.

[hondo in seattle]

On 4/27/2024 at 3:33 PM, Dr. Who said:

That's either true, or Beane has unrealistic expectations for his WR room as currently constructed, or this is a punt year in the middle of Josh Allen's prime.

 

I don't think Beane is looking at it as a punt year.  But I also think the cap is mostly spent and the draft is over.  Realistically, what can he do?  

[BaaadThingsMan]

Don't sleep on King Khalil Shakir.

 

The guy doesn't drop balls, gets open and is a RAC master. 

 

With the group they have I can see alot of quick passes to get guys moving in space with alot of RAC. 

[GASabresIUFan]

First things first, Coleman was not the player I hoped we'd draft. I wanted Mitchell, because I think he is the better player and the negative comments about him are all BS.  

 

I keep reading in the media that Coleman is a replacement for Diggs.  He's not, he is the replacement for Davis and IMHO he is a huge upgrade over Davis.  Coleman is a good blocker as well.  I still don't love the pick, let's call it a little separation anxiety, but there is no doubting his potential.  All the posts about his gauntlet test and other speed measurables have made me feel much better about the selection.

 

I also believed, do to their similarities physically, that Shakir was going to be the replacement for Diggs on the outside and not Samuel.  I'm beginning to re-think that idea following the addition of Davis in the draft at RB and a recent article in the Athletic.  The Davis addition brings another excellent pass receiver in the backfield to go with Cook and Johnson (who also catches well) limiting the need for Brady to utilize Samuel there. One other factor was Beane's statement that we need to stretch the field.  Samuel is by far the fastest straight ahead WR on the roster (4.31 40 & 1.49 10).  If Brady was going to use anyone to try to stretch the field it seems Samuel is the most likely candidate.  The last factor was Shakir's work in the slot last year.  Why take someone thriving in one position and make him a question mark in another?  

 

I'm going to re-phrase the OP question a little.  Has Beane done enough at pass receiver (not just WR)?  Our offseason needs were not to simply replace Davis and Diggs, but more importantly to add guys who could stretch the field and who could make contested catches, especially in the redzone and endzone. (Two areas Davis and Diggs failed last season).  Beane brought in Brady friend Samuel to stretch the field and the big strong Coleman to make the contested catches.  Both of these guys compliment the skill set of the Shakir and Kincaid.

 

The other criticisms are the lack of WR depth after Coleman, Samuel and Shakir and that he didn't double dip at WR in the draft despite having 10 picks.  Beane's response will be he signed Hollins as the 4th receiver and he is a significant upgrade on Sherfield (he is!).  I'd also had, how many touches does the 6th or 7th receiving option get anyway.  With Samuel, Shakir, Coleman, Kincaid, Knox, Cook and now Davis, how many targets will Hollins get anyway?  Beane might also say, on not double dipping, is that we have Shorter from last year who is a rookie after sitting out all last year with an injury.  As further depth, Beane will point to burners Isabella and Hamler and possession Cephus as three guys with NFL experience who are fighting for a possible roster spot.

 

Would I like one more insurance policy in case of injury or other issues?  Absolutely, but if went to camp as is, I wouldn't be to upset.

Edited April 29 by GASabresIUFan

[zow2]

On 4/28/2024 at 8:11 AM, LabattBlue said:

Pissing away a 7th round pick on this guy who has never played football instead of the longest of long shots at WR is a waste of a pick. 

 

I'm not sure.. there are many UDFA WR's that are as talented as anyone you can get in the 7th round. 

[Alphadawg7]

On 4/27/2024 at 3:12 PM, Meatloaf63 said:

With all the offseason moves, and adding just Coleman in the draft, did we do enough or will Beane look to trade or add a free agent after Trey’s money frees up?  

I for one can’t believe we are finished, how about you?

 

Yes, we have an exciting group of weapons for next year, it may even prove to be Allens best season.  

 

And we are finished, 100%.  Beane literally said so after the draft he will be making no trades for WR's despite the medias obsession of falsely linking the Bills to every trade in the NFL.  He said he was signing a guy, which he did, and we are done right now.  Doesn't mean something can't change as they get into camp and maybe someone comes available, we have an injury, or maybe the unit we have is struggling...but right now, he is done with any significant moves.

[GASabresIUFan]

3 minutes ago, zow2 said:

 

I'm not sure.. there are many UDFA WR's that are as talented as anyone you can get in the 7th round. 

Absolutely, and the odds of any of the 7th rd WRs  or a UDFA WR making an impact is very slight. 

 

I looked at the WRs who caught 1000 yards in a season at least once in the last 5 years.  There was 53 who accomplished the feat at least once.  Of those 53, there were 1 7th rounder (Edelman) and 2 UDFAs.  (The Breakdown was 19 1sts, 15 2nds, 10 3rds, 1 4th, 5 5ths, 0 6ths, 1 7ths & 2 UDFAs).

[Cash]

21 hours ago, Beck Water said:

 

No, I don't think we did enough

 

As for whether we're finished....I didn't think we did enough at MLB last season.  As it turned out, it was the best of times (Beane was correct that the answer was on our roster, and Terrel Bernard really stepped up) and it was the worst of times (once we lost Milano and schemed up a thing where Dodson and Poyer platooned, we had no legit backup for Bernard)

 

I think the best case scenario is that we're in a similar situation - the best of times would be that Coleman proves capable of starting and contributing on at least a Gabe Davis level, and that Samuel and Shakir take turns platooning at the other outside WR position while we run a lot of 1,1 and 1,2 sets where we only have 2 WR on the field anyway.

 

The worst case scenario though, is what's our plan if one of those guys gets hurt.

 

Good call bringing up MLB.  I was among the many who were shocked all offseason that they weren't adding more... then it turned out Bernard was really good, and I think the Bills knew it was a matter of when, not if for Bernard.

 

Any chance we've got one of those in the WR room already?

• Mack Hollins - No way.  He might be a nice addition in terms of attitude, etc, and maybe he can show the young guys the right way to work, but if he was gonna be a thing, it would've happened before he got here.
• Andy Isabella - Let's be real, people.  Isabella is very fast, and he's the same size/skin color as a lot of our fans, and it's always fun to root for someone who looks like you.  But he can't change direction at an NFL level - he can't run routes, can't return kicks, can't make anyone miss.  He's had plenty of chances and there is no breakout coming.
• Justin Shorter - I'll believe it when I see it, and not a second sooner.  When the #1 selling point of an NFL player is his recruiting rank out of high school, I tune out.  (This is also why I was never sold on Trevor Lawrence as a "generational" QB prospect - I never once saw an argument for him as generational that didn't prominently feature his recruiting rank from 3 years prior.  Who cares???)  The track record for "top HS recruit who doesn't do much in college" is pretty weak IMO.  Robert Foster had a few nice games when we were beyond desperate, but ultimately was not an NFL receiver.
• Tyrell Shavers - On their last podcast, Matt Parrino and Ryan Talbot noted that Beane mentioned Shavers before Shorter when talking about how they like the guys in the room.  And IIRC, Beane also made a point of saying Shavers has been in the building almost every day in the offseason.  This is a longshot, but it's not completely crazy.  Like with Shorter, I'll believe it when I see it, but there is some precedent for super hard-working undrafted WR to develop into a legit player.  And depending on what Shavers is doing in the building every day, it's possible the coaching staff knows that they've got something there.
• KJ Hamler - Beane talked him up a bit in his last presser as well.  I think it's about 95% chance that he's just a bust a la Andy Isabella.  But given Hamler's injuries, there's a chance he could still turn it around.  Again, I'll believe it when I see it.
• Quintez Cephus - including him even though he wasn't "in the room" yet during Beane's press conference, but he's the guy Beane said they were about to sign.  Even before the gambling suspension, he wasn't anything special.  I wouldn't be shocked if he makes the team as backup X receiver or something, but I would be extremely shocked if he broke out.

 

Of these guys, I'd say Shavers and Hamler are the only ones with a realistic chance of a Bernard-like season in 2024, with maybe an outside outside shot for Shorter.  Of course, we don't have the info we need to make a real guess, but hopefully the coaching staff has a better idea based on seeing guys work in the offseason.

[Dr. Who]

3 hours ago, hondo in seattle said:

 

I don't think Beane is looking at it as a punt year.  But I also think the cap is mostly spent and the draft is over.  Realistically, what can he do?  

The only thing I can think of is bring in a veteran WR through trade, or someone who shakes loose because of the influx of WR talent acquired in the draft. Tre's post 6/1 money will get added to the cap and allow for an added player, whether at WR, S, or DL, I dunno, but that's where I guess it would be spent if he uses it.

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

What we have today? Not even close. People were asking for weapons when we only had Diggs and Davis. Now not only did we not bring in anyone top end, we lost those guys. I can’t believe we didn’t take WRs in 2 of the first 3 rounds. I hope this team knows what they are doing because on paper WR are inexcusably bad at WR.

[amprov56]

On 4/27/2024 at 5:35 PM, Ethan in Cleveland said:

Cmon man. Shakir replaces Diggs??? Diggs had the four best WR years in Bills history.  There is nothing to suggest Shakir even comes close to that.

Your wrong as usual, Diggs could not carry Andre Reeds jock strap, your a Doctor, come on!