NastyNateSoldiers Posted April 24 Share Posted April 24 1 hour ago, That's No Moon said: If he can learn that easily, why has he not learned it. Dude was a 5th year senior. He's a late bloomer but nonetheless a bloomer and the arrow is definitely up on this kid. https://www.postandcourier.com/sports/carolina/gamecocks-xavier-legette-is-overlooked-no-longer/article_4f212004-52fb-11ee-8627-7bf360310517.html 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nedboy7 Posted April 24 Share Posted April 24 (edited) XW would be a bad pick. Pass. XL would be dope Edited April 24 by nedboy7 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChans Posted April 24 Share Posted April 24 10 hours ago, Logic said: I know this is already in the "NFL draft rumors" thread, but given that it involves the team this forum is based on, and involves the position we all know they desperately need, and given that it's based on the reporting of at least one credible source....surely it deserves its own thread, no? I can't be the only one who doesn't regularly check the draft rumors thread. If it gets merged, so be it. Road sodas has anti sources. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted April 24 Share Posted April 24 Just now, longtimebillsfan said: I disagree it is lazy thinking, but you are entitled to yout opinion. For years, many posters here have lamented that the Bills should not have wasted draft capitol to move up when that draft was do deep at wr. That sounds very similar to this draft. "Those that don't remember history are doomed to repeat it" Fans get so pumped up about certain players because these self appointed "draft experts" hype them in their mock drafts. The Bills have too many needs to burn draft picks on an unnecessary move up. There was another thread started recently that made the point that regardless of which wr the Bills pick in the draft, they would still need a #1 wr. The op made a valid point in that thread. This is just my opinion for what it's worth. Um, it’s a different world than 10 years ago. The Bills have a franchise QB. The cost for a high end WR is roughly double the cap space that it was a decade ago. There are LOTS of logical reasons to go way up. Sammy Watkins not working out 10 years ago isn’t even a data point that the Bills are considering when deciding what to do. There is no correlation between him not working out and the 2024 Bills draft. Julio Jones is a better example because the Falcons had a high end starter and wanted to get him a star. That’s infinitely more relevant to this conversation but still isn’t a factor in the Bills decision making process. Secondly, the college game changed the pro game not the other way around. NFL spread offenses designed to get the ball to playmakers in space are just copies of college offenses. Receivers translate easily and for those of us that watch a lot of college football, those guys are easily identifiable. Does someone really believe that the WR that the Bills draft will not be their number 1 immediately?? 😂😂 Is that for real? The Bills have a solid slot WR with good production on low volume. They have a gadget guy that is good with the ball in his hands. If we do not understand that the draft pick walks off the bus as the alpha in the WR room we do not understand the current WR room. 2 minutes ago, FireChans said: Road sodas has anti sources. I wonder how many people still get this reference? 3 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longtimebillsfan Posted April 24 Share Posted April 24 9 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said: Um, it’s a different world than 10 years ago. The Bills have a franchise QB. The cost for a high end WR is roughly double the cap space that it was a decade ago. There are LOTS of logical reasons to go way up. Sammy Watkins not working out 10 years ago isn’t even a data point that the Bills are considering when deciding what to do. There is no correlation between him not working out and the 2024 Bills draft. Julio Jones is a better example because the Falcons had a high end starter and wanted to get him a star. That’s infinitely more relevant to this conversation but still isn’t a factor in the Bills decision making process. Secondly, the college game changed the pro game not the other way around. NFL spread offenses designed to get the ball to playmakers in space are just copies of college offenses. Receivers translate easily and for those of us that watch a lot of college football, those guys are easily identifiable. Does someone really believe that the WR that the Bills draft will not be their number 1 immediately?? 😂😂 Is that for real? The Bills have a solid slot WR with good production on low volume. They have a gadget guy that is good with the ball in his hands. If we do not understand that the draft pick walks off the bus as the alpha in the WR room we do not understand the current WR room. I wonder how many people still get this reference? What hasn't changed is the fact that many wrs taken after the 1st round will exceed some of these 1st round "studs" in their NFL careers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NastyNateSoldiers Posted April 24 Share Posted April 24 1 hour ago, SectionC3 said: I completely agree with all of this. My guess is that NE likes two of the top three, or one of the latter two thirds of that analysis, and they might be open to the AJ Smith model of loading up the rest of the roster now and plugging in the QB in the next year or two. On the receivers point, I agree with the odds of success favoring a young QB with that pair in place. But, if the Vikings need to generate extra draft capital to make the move, and if they feel strongly enough about the guy they're moving for, flipping one of those guys to get it done isn't an outlandish idea. Jefferson's intermittent friction with Cousins is in the back of my mind on this one. If that guy didn't like Cousins, and he's approaching extension territory, then I wonder how he's going to do with Darnold as a journeyman placeholder, or with Daniels/Maye/McCarthy/whomever trying to figure things out on the fly. EDIT - I'll add this. I'm wrestling with Jefferson's value this morning. Is it a pair of ones? Is it a 1 + 2? Maybe a 1 + a future 2? Or could it be as low as a 1 given what is likely to be an enormous financial commitment? I don't know. From the Bills' perspective, adding a guy with that type of salary is completely contrary to what they appear to be trying to do after getting Diggs out of the locker room. But if I'm Beane . . . it doesn't hurt to check on the price. No way JJ goes for just a 1 we have seen other players go for more and still get paid big money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarleyNY Posted April 24 Share Posted April 24 2 hours ago, SoonerBillsFan said: Dealing from a position of weakness is going to cost a ton. I agree. This is how I see it playing out. We get into the top 9 for a top 3 WR, but the price will be steeper than most here expect. This team will have to win with offense this season and they need a stud WR for the offense to do that. The fact that the team is at the forefront of PSL sales and needs to keep the fan base stoked adds pressure from the top. 2025 draft capital will be sacrificed. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted April 24 Share Posted April 24 9 minutes ago, BarleyNY said: I agree. This is how I see it playing out. We get into the top 9 for a top 3 WR, but the price will be steeper than most here expect. This team will have to win with offense this season and they need a stud WR for the offense to do that. The fact that the team is at the forefront of PSL sales and needs to keep the fan base stoked adds pressure from the top. 2025 draft capital will be sacrificed. And not for nothing but Beane has publicly lamented about not "bottoming out" like the Bengals did when they were able to draft Chase. If you think you need a Chase to get past early-round playoff exits (and I think they might need that, or at least believe that they do), you make the sacrifice, go get one and figure out next year's draft next year. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptnCoke11 Posted April 24 Share Posted April 24 32 minutes ago, nedboy7 said: XW would be a bad pick. Pass. XL would be dope Did you consult your crystal ball? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChans Posted April 24 Share Posted April 24 30 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said: Um, it’s a different world than 10 years ago. The Bills have a franchise QB. The cost for a high end WR is roughly double the cap space that it was a decade ago. There are LOTS of logical reasons to go way up. Sammy Watkins not working out 10 years ago isn’t even a data point that the Bills are considering when deciding what to do. There is no correlation between him not working out and the 2024 Bills draft. Julio Jones is a better example because the Falcons had a high end starter and wanted to get him a star. That’s infinitely more relevant to this conversation but still isn’t a factor in the Bills decision making process. Secondly, the college game changed the pro game not the other way around. NFL spread offenses designed to get the ball to playmakers in space are just copies of college offenses. Receivers translate easily and for those of us that watch a lot of college football, those guys are easily identifiable. Does someone really believe that the WR that the Bills draft will not be their number 1 immediately?? 😂😂 Is that for real? The Bills have a solid slot WR with good production on low volume. They have a gadget guy that is good with the ball in his hands. If we do not understand that the draft pick walks off the bus as the alpha in the WR room we do not understand the current WR room. I wonder how many people still get this reference? Kevin Massare gets it and that’s enough for me. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted April 24 Share Posted April 24 Sure. The question is whether they are already committed to the idea or whether they're trying to figure out how much it would cost to move up in case someone they like fell to, say, 20th. I'm pretty much completely sure they're kicking the tires on move-ups and finding out the values. Far less convinced that this is their number one choice, the way they want it to go. My bet is they're also checking out move-downs in case things fall the right way. That they want to be absolutely prepared no matter what happens. My guess is that the odds are probably somewhere around 30 - 60% that they move up a bit for a Thomas or a Legette or a Mitchell depending how things fall and how much they like whoever they really like. They move up a few spots with fair regularity. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregg Posted April 24 Share Posted April 24 4 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said: Sure. The question is whether they are already committed to the idea or whether they're trying to figure out how much it would cost to move up in case someone they like fell to, say, 20th. I'm pretty much completely sure they're kicking the tires on move-ups and finding out the values. Far less convinced that this is their number one choice, the way they want it to go. My bet is they're also checking out move-downs in case things fall the right way. That they want to be absolutely prepared no matter what happens. My guess is that the odds are probably somewhere around 30 - 60% that they move up a bit for a Thomas or a Legette or a Mitchell depending how things fall and how much they like whoever they really like. They move up a few spots with fair regularity. Wasn't it in the same draft where Beane moved up to get Allen he also moved up to get Edmunds. If I remember correctly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
section122 Posted April 24 Share Posted April 24 1 hour ago, Kirby Jackson said: I think that the cost controlled IS the reason that a 2nd number 1 comes into play. The top WRs now account for like 12% of the cap (by the time Aiyuk, Higgins & Jefferson sign). It’s the 2nd most important position on the team (or at least right there with pass rusher). Top QBs, which we have, account for like 20% of the cap. It simply isn’t very easy to have both. You spend the draft capital on WR to free up cap space to spend on other areas. As an example, you could use 2 firsts and 2 seconds to move up for a number 1 WR. I’m not saying that you do or don’t do this. This is a hypothetical to illustrate my point. By using that capital to get the number 1 WR you save the $30M annually that it would cost to sign someone like that. You can then spend $8M on S, $12M on a pass rusher, $4M on a CB, $4M on a RB & $2M on a DT. So while you do not have as many picks to get those positions you can buy them instead. You’ll need to have cost controlled assets somewhere and in this example it is at WR. The point being that there are multiple ways to build a roster and decisions can’t be made in a vacuum because they are all intertwined. So while the cost to go way up, limits the high end swings you can take over the next few drafts, it also frees the balance sheet to be more aggressive in FA. Now obviously, if you can find elite talent without having to go up that’s even better. There’s a reason though that some prospects are universally ranked above others. If you go up you’re paying for that prospect’s ceiling and floor. I understand the cost savings but to get one of the top 3 guys where the floor is high enough with the ceiling also being high, I have a hard time finding the cost to just not be prohibitive. Getting to the top 10 will likely cost 2 1s and 2 2s. In your example you get starter level players but not difference makers to pair with your wr. A 4 million corner and 2 million dt are bargain players and possible liabilities. BTJ has enough question marks that I don't know that he will become one of those $30 million guys so giving a ton up for him makes me really nervous. I'm not against it, it just makes me uncomfortable. Having the Vikings 2nd next year helps a ton. They can perhaps do something like 28, 60, and both 2nds next year. That would be great for the Bills I just wonder if any team will delay gratification for a year and slide all the way down. I think the Bears are locked on odunze as williams and he appear to have a bromance brewing. So nabers is really the only option between 5 and 8. I really feel minnesota is going to 5 and Schoen is fighting for his job so I don't think those are options. Now we are down to 7 or 8. Are tenn or atl with new head coaches going to want to punt on adding premier talent and slide all the way down to 28? Not unless they get blown away by an offer imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChans Posted April 24 Share Posted April 24 (edited) 1 minute ago, section122 said: I understand the cost savings but to get one of the top 3 guys where the floor is high enough with the ceiling also being high, I have a hard time finding the cost to just not be prohibitive. Getting to the top 10 will likely cost 2 1s and 2 2s. In your example you get starter level players but not difference makers to pair with your wr. A 4 million corner and 2 million dt are bargain players and possible liabilities. BTJ has enough question marks that I don't know that he will become one of those $30 million guys so giving a ton up for him makes me really nervous. I'm not against it, it just makes me uncomfortable. Having the Vikings 2nd next year helps a ton. They can perhaps do something like 28, 60, and both 2nds next year. That would be great for the Bills I just wonder if any team will delay gratification for a year and slide all the way down. I think the Bears are locked on odunze as williams and he appear to have a bromance brewing. So nabers is really the only option between 5 and 8. I really feel minnesota is going to 5 and Schoen is fighting for his job so I don't think those are options. Now we are down to 7 or 8. Are tenn or atl with new head coaches going to want to punt on adding premier talent and slide all the way down to 28? Not unless they get blown away by an offer imo. “What if the Rams trade all those picks and don’t win the Super Bowl?” Oh well. They did. Get uncomfy! Who dares wins. Edited April 24 by FireChans Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
section122 Posted April 24 Share Posted April 24 Just now, FireChans said: “What if the Rams trade all those picks and don’t win the Super Bowl?” Oh well. They did. Who dares wins. What? Lol The Rams are the exact opposite of what we are discussing. They traded picks for established players. If the discussion was trading their picks for jefferson then you could use the Rams as an example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D. L. Hot-Flamethrower Posted April 24 Share Posted April 24 If they move up , spend some draft capital (but save on cap.) and it leads to success then I'm all for it. If we trade back and pick Kneeland at 40 like Bruce Nolan did I will lose my mind because that means we are still trying that failed strategy. Load up the offense and make McDermott's defense hold a bake sale. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logic Posted April 24 Author Share Posted April 24 (edited) After sleeping on it, I still think the plan, in order of preference, is: A) Trade up fairly high for Odunze or Nabers B) Draft Xavier Worthy either at 28 or even after a small trade up C) Trade down to net a 3rd round pick, draft one of Franklin, Legette, or McConkey I'm sticking with that. Any outcome other than one of those three will actually surprise me. The late-in-the-process smoke around trading up (for Odunze in particular) and the late checks on Worthy ring true to me. Many will say "smokescreen!", "lying season", etc, but...nah. I buy it. Both guys would give our offense something it currently lacks. Odunze would give us a true playmaking X. Worthy would give us an explosive downfield and RAC threat that would open things up for the other guys. We'll see in 40 hours or so! Edited April 24 by Logic 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChans Posted April 24 Share Posted April 24 4 minutes ago, section122 said: What? Lol The Rams are the exact opposite of what we are discussing. They traded picks for established players. If the discussion was trading their picks for jefferson then you could use the Rams as an example. It’s all risk. different degrees of risk, but risk all the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted April 24 Share Posted April 24 i'd take worthy because i think he can take the top off w allen (which we simply could not do last season), but i agree with others that being such a shrimp is a big concern, and maybe other guys in the draft project better for us. Trading up or trading for a big time talent and then paying him (say JJ or aiyuk) is also a real option IMO. diggs fell off terribly, so losing him really doesn't matter as much in the playoffs, but have to win the division and get there in the first place and we need season long production. like the FO said, we need match up guys. no one in the draft beats nebors or harrison jr at that, so i'm all for paying the king's ransom to get one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
section122 Posted April 24 Share Posted April 24 Just now, FireChans said: It’s all risk. different degrees of risk, but risk all the same. Sure but the Rams traded for established studs in Ramsey, Stafford, and then Cooks. In fact when they traded capital to use in the draft they got goff so again I think they run antithesis to this conversation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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