Deonte Harty to the Ravens

[LABILLBACKER]

4 hours ago, Richard Noggin said:

 

That punt return was impactful, but yeah

I'm waiting for someone other than Josh doing something impactful in the playoffs. Hines, Harty and Sherfield were huge disappointments.

[Mikie2times]

I have been a fan since 1990 and that was the most impactful punt return for a touchdown I remember Buffalo ever having. McGee had some great ones, but nothing close to this level of importance. Then he also had a 25 yard catch on 3rd and 6 on our go ahead drive at the end of the KC regular season game. His total production was completely lacking but those two plays ended up being massive as far as our playoff chances and divisional title aspirations. At that rate of pay it's a great deal. I'm also of the opinion that based on those plays he actually came closer to living up to his contract than most here give him credit for. Clearly he didn't become who we wanted. But we likely don't end up in the position we did without a few plays he did end up making for us. I have to think he can be utilized better. We will see. 

[Conlan58]

It is entirely possible that he appeared under-utilized on offense because there was such a focus of making sure Diggs got his targets. 

 

We need worse receivers - amirite?!

[Matt_In_NH]

The bills are taking a bigger cap hit for him than the ravens.  

[Coach Tuesday]

8 hours ago, Bangarang said:

That's the deal we should've given him last year. 

Beane is a wizard!

[Ethan in Cleveland]

9 hours ago, Richard Noggin said:

 

Kinda effs up a lot of anti-returner/depth sentiments with actual results. But fans will always gripe against modest and under-the-radar FA signings. 

What was modest about it?

[Thrivefourfive]

4 hours ago, Conlan58 said:

It is entirely possible that he appeared under-utilized on offense because there was such a focus of making sure Diggs got his targets. 

 

We need worse receivers - amirite?!

After week 6..?? Harty sucked. It’s what it is. And maybe we don’t need his one and only contribution if Josh had a WR core he deserves, and some guys could hold onto touchdown drops.

[Bruffalo]

It's too bad we could figure out a use for him here. Dorsey was horrible.

 

Beane gave him all sorts of speed but all we could do is force feed Diggs and have Davis run the wrong option route constantly. 

 

I really hope Brady can be simpler but spread the ball around more, and actually use players to their strengths. Everything looked so much easier under Daboll. 

[Cash]

14 hours ago, Beck Water said:

 

I would like to know what the story was with that guy.   He looked so slow in our offense, was that just me?

Course we only gave him like, 10 snaps per game.

 

Anyway, I wish him and Nyheim Hines the best (except when they're playing the Bills of course)

 

I have to take the "L" for both of them, I didn't think they'd be major finds but I thought they would both contribute more than they did.

 

Yeah, I watch a lot of Saints games, and Harty looked a LOT faster when he played for the Saints.  I think some of it was down to utilization in the offense (Daboll was MUCH better at using McKenzie-type guys than Dorsey), but I also think that Harty lost a step or two right before we signed him.  Still, that punt return was awesome.

[Beck Water]

1 minute ago, Cash said:

 

Yeah, I watch a lot of Saints games, and Harty looked a LOT faster when he played for the Saints.  I think some of it was down to utilization in the offense (Daboll was MUCH better at using McKenzie-type guys than Dorsey), but I also think that Harty lost a step or two right before we signed him.  Still, that punt return was awesome.

 

He had missed all but 4 games with a foot injury the season before we signed him.

 

Maybe he didn't really recover from that.

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

I guarantee this guy won’t make the final 53. 

[Beck Water]

6 hours ago, Conlan58 said:

It is entirely possible that he appeared under-utilized on offense because there was such a focus of making sure Diggs got his targets. 

 

We need worse receivers - amirite?!

 

I mean, that's possible, and I could be mis-remembering but it seemed as though when we tried to use him in McKenzie's sweep/reverse or in the screen role, they squibbed.  

 

If you look up his game logs, you kind of see that - he was getting 20-25% of the snaps in the first 7 weeks, then (IIRC) McDermott said something in the press about "we're going into week [whatever], we ought to know what guys can do by now" and his usage dropped sharply to single-digit snaps, where it stayed for all but 2 games.  He missed Week 12 but wasn't on the injury report.

 

1 hour ago, Bruffalo said:

It's too bad we could figure out a use for him here. Dorsey was horrible.

 

Beane gave him all sorts of speed but all we could do is force feed Diggs and have Davis run the wrong option route constantly. 

 

I really hope Brady can be simpler but spread the ball around more, and actually use players to their strengths. Everything looked so much easier under Daboll. 

 

But was Harty part of that speed as a WR?

 

We had Diggs.  We had Davis,  We had Shakir.  We had Kincaid.  We had Knox.

 

Who did you want to see come off the field more, to make room for Harty?

Edited April 11 by Beck Water

[Logic]

The Bills misused Deonte Harty. 

He was an excellent deep threat with the Saints. I could count on one hand the amount of times the Bills threw Harty a deep ball. Instead, they pigeon-holed him into the gadget/jet sweep/McKenzie role, and it just never worked with him.

Mind you, I'm not saying he's some great talent or anything. But he definitely has more to offer than what the Bills did with him. Total waste of a contract, and I put more of the blame on them than him.

Oh well. Gone now. So long and happy trails.

[Bruffalo]

10 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

I mean, that's possible, and I could be mis-remembering but it seemed as though when we tried to use him in McKenzie's sweep/reverse or in the screen role, they squibbed.  

 

If you look up his game logs, you kind of see that - he was getting 20-25% of the snaps in the first 7 weeks, then (IIRC) McDermott said something in the press about "we're going into week [whatever], we ought to know what guys can do by now" and his usage dropped sharply to single-digit snaps, where it stayed for all but 2 games.  He missed Week 12 but wasn't on the injury report.

 

 

But was Harty part of that speed as a WR?

 

We had Diggs.  We had Davis,  We had Shakir.  We had Kincaid.  We had Knox.

 

Who did you want to see come off the field more, to make room for Harty?

Davis had multiple games with a 0 statline.  

Knox had a hand injury. 

 

If you're going to invest in the bottom of your WR rooms, then you should use them, otherwise just go get some UDFAs or Vet minimum players. 

[boyst]

I thought about this and don't see the point. I guess if Lamar can find him in his second read, which he rarely gets to AND is able to find the slippery WR he can get some YAC. But I don't see this as a strong move. 

[Beck Water]

5 minutes ago, Bruffalo said:

Davis had multiple games with a 0 statline.  

Knox had a hand injury. 

 

If you're going to invest in the bottom of your WR rooms, then you should use them, otherwise just go get some UDFAs or Vet minimum players. 

 

I think the Bills intended to use Harty more, as witness him getting 19-27% of the snaps the first 7 games.  But it didn't seem to work out when he was on the field, and he didn't seem to be as fast as he looked in NO.  So his usage fell off.

[Beck Water]

2 minutes ago, boyst said:

I thought about this and don't see the point. I guess if Lamar can find him in his second read, which he rarely gets to AND is able to find the slippery WR he can get some YAC. But I don't see this as a strong move. 

 

Return man maybe?  He signed pretty much a vet minimum, maybe even a VSB contract, though it's almost fully guaranteed - which says they intend to keep him.

 

Last year's main punt and KO returner for them was Devin Duvernay, who went to the Jags, though they still have Justice Hill and Tylan Wallace.

[Beck Water]

19 minutes ago, Logic said:

The Bills misused Deonte Harty. 

He was an excellent deep threat with the Saints. I could count on one hand the amount of times the Bills threw Harty a deep ball. Instead, they pigeon-holed him into the gadget/jet sweep/McKenzie role, and it just never worked with him.

Mind you, I'm not saying he's some great talent or anything. But he definitely has more to offer than what the Bills did with him. Total waste of a contract, and I put more of the blame on them than him.

Oh well. Gone now. So long and happy trails.

 

I'm unsure about the "misused"

 

Harty is 5'6" with 28" arms.  What about that screams "deep threat boundary guy" to you?

 

He did catch some "long bombs" for the Saints in 2021 before the foot injury.  But at a quick glance, that came to about 4 genuine deep bombs, 5 or so completions that were either just over or just under the canonical 20 yd "deep" pass, several incompletions or INTs against him on deep balls, and some shorter passes.  42% of his 570 yds came off of 4 deep passes; ~90 yds came off another  5 receptions.  Are 9 receptions in a season enough to call a guy an "excellent deep threat"?

 

But, bringing in the shorter and intermediate passes are essential to being able to use a guy who is not a true outside WR on deep bombs, right? because otherwise the opponent sees him walk on the field, says "here comes that boat-racer" and rolls a safety over him deep.  Same with gadget plays; that happened with McKensie, until he improved enough to run some actual routes.  Opponents got to where they saw him walk on the field and said "here comes the sweep or reverse".

So what I saw, and I could be wrong, was a guy who just didn't have the quickness to uncover on the short or intermediate routes they asked him to run.  And, he was thrown some deep balls early on IIRC but couldn't haul them in - maybe he was just used to playing in a dome, and couldn't adjust to outside, IDK.  Or maybe he had just lost that quickness and speed edge that were his Jam.

Now that said, could someone more clever than Dorsey have schemed up some way to use him more, I grant that point.

But after week 7, Harty's snaps fell from an average of 22% to single-digits.

Meanwhile, after week 7, Shakir's snaps rose from 26% to 69%, and I can't argue that was "misuse".  I think he earned them.  

And I can't argue against Kincaid getting the snaps he did, either.

[Logic]

1 minute ago, Beck Water said:

 

I'm unsure about the "misused"

 

Harty is 5'6" with 28" arms.  What about that screams "deep threat boundary guy" to you?

 

He did catch some "long bombs" for the Saints in 2021 before the foot injury.  But at a quick glance, that came to about 4 genuine deep bombs, 5 or so completions that were either just over or just under the canonical 20 yd "deep" pass, several incompletions or INTs against him on deep balls, and some shorter passes.  42% of his 570 yds came off of 4 deep passes; ~90 yds came off another  5 receptions.  Are 9 receptions in a season enough to call a guy an "excellent deep threat"?

 

But, bringing in the shorter and intermediate passes are essential to being able to use a guy who is not a true outside WR on deep bombs, right? because otherwise the opponent sees him walk on the field, says "here comes that boat-racer" and rolls a safety over him deep.  Same with gadget plays; that happened with McKensie, until he improved enough to run some actual routes.  Opponents got to where they saw him walk on the field and said "here comes the sweep or reverse".

So what I saw, and I could be wrong, was a guy who just didn't have the quickness to uncover on the short or intermediate routes they asked him to run.  And, he was thrown some deep balls early on IIRC but couldn't haul them in - maybe he was just used to playing in a dome, and couldn't adjust to outside, IDK.  Or maybe he had just lost that quickness and speed edge that were his Jam.

Now that said, could someone more clever than Dorsey have schemed up some way to use him more, I grant that point.

But after week 7, Harty's snaps fell from an average of 22% to single-digits.

Meanwhile, after week 7, Shakir's snaps rose from 26% to 69%, and I can't argue that was "misuse".  I think he earned them.  

And I can't argue against Kincaid getting the snaps he did, either.

Outstanding post. Really good stuff. Thanks!

[bigK14094]

All he did all year was win the second Miami game with a kickoff return. Hines did even better the year  before.  Looks like the Bills don't take the returner position as a priority.