Hip drop tackle officially banned

[Steve O]

On 3/25/2024 at 11:34 AM, Scott7975 said:

Great, another way to give a team a free first down on 3rd and forever and win the game for them.

I freakin' hate seeing 3rd and 20, a defensive holding call away from the play, the defense holds, but wait, that's a 5 yard penalty, automatic first down😡

If defensive holding is 5 yards & automatic first down, offensive holding should be 5 yards and automatic 4th down!

And don't even get me started on the late flag in the Bills/Chiefs game where the replay showed the chuck was within 5 yards and before the pass.

Edited March 26 by Steve O
spelling

[Capco]

On 3/25/2024 at 3:02 PM, VaMilBill said:

I don’t understand how a player will tackle someone who they are trying to chase down from behind. 

I've been taken down from behind before without being hip-drop tackled.

And no... it was not a cop.  It was a cornerback lol.  I swear!

[Steve O]

1 minute ago, Capco said:

I've been taken down from behind before without being hip-drop tackled.

And no... it was not a cop.  It was a cornerback lol.  I swear!

Pretty sure cops will still be allowed to use the hip drop tackle without penalty.

[steven50]

15 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

Smaller guys have been tackling bigger guys since forever, they will manage

Yes they have, using leverage and their own body weight to overcome the size disparity. Which is exactly what "hip drop tackle" is.

 

There is a reason at the junior levels of football it is played by kids of equal weight. No one can just grab someone 100 pounds heavier then them that is traveling at 17 or 18 MPH and bring them to the ground. If you cant use balance or your own weight to bring him down your just going to get steamrolled.

 

This is real life not a video game or a superhero movie.

[GoBills808]

Just now, steven50 said:

Yes they have, using leverage and their own body weight to overcome the size disparity. Which is exactly what "hip drop tackle" is.

 

There is a reason at the junior levels of football it is played by kids of equal weight. No one can just grab someone 100 pounds heavier then them that is traveling at 17 or 18 MPH and bring them to the ground. If you cant use balance or your own weight to bring him down your just going to get steamrolled.

 

This is real life not a video game or a superhero movie.

No. You just don't understand the kind of play they're trying to get rid of and I'm tired of trying to explain it 

 

 

[freeagentqb]

Very simple -  You chase a player down from behind then you grab him by the waist and bring him down without throwing your body weight on the back of his legs.

 

So a hip drop tackle is when you grab a player's waist from behind and then swivel your body to put your total body weight on the back of his legs thus trapping his lower leg(s) between your body and the ground.  Leads to serious lower leg injuries.

 

Its very obvious to see and a good rule change.

[steven50]

 I wonder how many times we are going to see this now.

 

This made me think, we are going to see a lot more lowering of the head and shoulders when the big guy realizes the little guy has no chance of straight up taking him down anymore.

Edited March 27 by steven50
bad spelling

[bmur66]

You must now ask if the player is ready to be tackled.

Edited March 26 by bmur66

[BananaB]

Kind of sick of player safety. They get paid more than ever and the game just getting softer. They know the risks, if they don’t want to play they can go do a 9 to 5. 

Edited March 27 by BananaB

[dgrochester55]

Great, another rule that is up to the "interpretation" of refs.

 

I can't wait for the first prime time Chiefs game where Kelce is stopped short on 4th and long with less than a minute to go only to have a flag come out 30 seconds after the play is over for "illegal hip tackle".

[Buffalo716]

3 hours ago, dgrochester55 said:

Great, another rule that is up to the "interpretation" of refs.

 

I can't wait for the first prime time Chiefs game where Kelce is stopped short on 4th and long with less than a minute to go only to have a flag come out 30 seconds after the play is over for "illegal hip tackle".

It's far from just an interpretation rule

 

The NFL has been reviewing this for a while..  it is literally less than 1% of NFL tackles

 

It does not happen every game

 

It is a choice the defender makes... So it's actually easy to see

 

It's clear and deliberate and since it only happens less than 1% of the time it is clear when it does

 

There should be zero phantom calls with this new rule because it is a deliberate dilapidating tackle that the defender chooses

[BananaB]

8 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

It's far from just an interpretation rule

 

The NFL has been reviewing this for a while..  it is literally less than 1% of NFL tackles

 

It does not happen every game

 

It is a choice the defender makes... So it's actually easy to see

 

It's clear and deliberate and since it only happens less than 1% of the time it is clear when it does

 

There should be zero phantom calls with this new rule because it is a deliberate dilapidating tackle that the defender chooses

I thought horse collar was pretty clear cut but now a days it isn’t. Just more “this is how the refs seen it” rules that will help them manipulate games…. Basically more rules to help the Chiefs win in crucial moments, fans are getting sick of all the other calls that go their way

[Buffalo716]

32 minutes ago, BananaB said:

I thought horse collar was pretty clear cut but now a days it isn’t. Just more “this is how the refs seen it” rules that will help them manipulate games…. Basically more rules to help the Chiefs win in crucial moments, fans are getting sick of all the other calls that go their way

The Chiefs win a few super bowls and people think they're destined to win 10 LOL

 

After Tom Brady got his quick first three he didn't get another for a decade

 

I'd be willing to bet Patrick mahomes isn't winning any more super bowls anytime soon 

 

The Chiefs are played out.. and it's tough to keep motivation

Edited March 27 by Buffalo716

[FireChans]

very fun, very cool

[Buffalo716]

4 minutes ago, FireChans said:

very fun, very cool

This shows why it's not going to have an impact

 

It is.. by all definitions not a standard tackle... When they reviewed it they realized it's less than 1% of tackles

 

It's extremely rare and done with intent.. professionals who have been playing for over a decade choose to tackle this way... It doesn't happen on accident

 

Usually to cause injury..

 

It will not cause five more flags a game... It's definitely going to be a rare flag because it's not a standard tackle

 

It's not like holding which happens every play and they choose when to throw it based on the impact it has... You can go an entire NFL game without seeing a real hip drop tackle

 

 

[FireChans]

1 minute ago, Buffalo716 said:

This shows why it's not going to have an impact

 

It is.. by all definitions not a standard tackle... When they reviewed it they realized it's less than 1% of tackles

 

It's extremely rare and done with intent.. professionals who have been playing for over a decade choose to tackle this way... It doesn't happen on accident

 

Usually to cause injury..

 

It will not cause five more flags a game... It's definitely going to be a rare flag because it's not a standard tackle

 

It's not like holding which happens every play and they choose when to throw it based on the impact it has... You can go an entire NFL game without seeing a real hip drop tackle

 

 

They are going to throw the flag incorrectly. Everyone keeps throwing

the “1% of tackles” thing out like the officials have never overcalled certain penalties in the pursuit of player safety. 

 

It is hysterical. 

[Buffalo716]

5 minutes ago, FireChans said:

They are going to throw the flag incorrectly. Everyone keeps throwing

the “1% of tackles” thing out like the officials have never overcalled certain penalties in the pursuit of player safety. 

 

It is hysterical. 

 You can't over call a penalty that happens once every game

 

If they started calling five a game.. the league would go back and review it and change the rule

 

They're not looking to control the game more... This is a real player safety issue where this tackle has almost a 25x injury rate compared to a standard tackle

 

It's a devastating tackle that has been used to injure people on purpose in the game... Because you know it breaks legs and ankles 

Edited March 28 by Buffalo716

[FireChans]

Just now, Buffalo716 said:

 You can't over call a penalty that happens once every game

 

If they started calling five a game.. the league would go back and review it and change the rule

 

They're not looking to control the game more... This is a real player safety issue where this tackle has almost a 25x injury rate compared to a standard tackle

 

If you want to take out a star running back legally this is how you used to do it... You roll up and snap their leg

 

They're just trying to take that out

I honestly can’t disagree harder. 
 

They will, almost guaranteed, call a ton of hip drop tackle penalties that are not penalties, they will also call some that are legit. Just like they do for EVERY OTHER SINGLE PENALTY.

 

Arguing the NFL officials will “get it right,” as a fan of the NFL is just absurd. It makes me wonder if you work for the league office. 

[Buffalo716]

9 minutes ago, FireChans said:

I honestly can’t disagree harder. 
 

They will, almost guaranteed, call a ton of hip drop tackle penalties that are not penalties, they will also call some that are legit. Just like they do for EVERY OTHER SINGLE PENALTY.

 

Arguing the NFL officials will “get it right,” as a fan of the NFL is just absurd. It makes me wonder if you work for the league office. 

I certainly don't work for the league office

 

We will see... If they're calling four of these a game and making them weak calls... Then you're right

 

NFL officials do not abuse every single rule in the book... There are so many obscure rules that are never used or barely

 

You may be right but I think this is going to be one of those obscure calls that only gets called occasionally because the stats support it... And since we're in the day of social media it becomes Hot topic

 

If this was 1975 this wouldn't of even been a footnote during the off season... This is no different than making horse collar illegal

 

Of which there was only 15 horse collar calls throughout the entire NFL and all its hundreds of games last year 

 

Certainly not an abused penalty

Edited March 28 by Buffalo716

[FireChans]

19 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

I certainly don't work for the league office

 

We will see... If they're calling four of these a game and making them weak calls... Then you're right

 

NFL officials do not abuse every single rule in the book... There are so many obscure rules that are never used or barely

 

You may be right but I think this is going to be one of those obscure calls that only gets called occasionally because the stats support it... And since we're in the day of social media it becomes Hot topic

 

If this was 1975 this wouldn't of even been a footnote during the off season... This is no different than making horse collar illegal

 

Of which there was only 15 horse collar calls throughout the entire NFL and all its hundreds of games last year 

 

Certainly not an abused penalty

the horse collar penalty wasn’t invented last year. 
 

point of emphasis rules and new player safety rules are ALWAYS called a ton when they first come out. You could argue that’s by design because they are trying to drum it out of the game, but it’s true.

 

illegal to hit QB’s below the knees. Called a ton when the penalty was first changed, sometimes penalties were bogus 

 

Illegal to land on QB during sack. Called a ton when the penalty was first changed, sometimes penalties were bogus.

 

Personal fouls on defenseless receiver. Called a ton when the penalty was first changed, sometimes they were bogus.

 

This is really obvious. They are not going to call this 1% of the time and it always be correct. They are going to get it wrong, often. 
 

This is really indisputable. I’m not sure there’s a single person who thinks the refs are going to always be right when they call this penalty, not even the refs probably believe that. 

[Buffalo716]

8 minutes ago, FireChans said:

the horse collar penalty wasn’t invented last year. 
 

point of emphasis rules and new player safety rules are ALWAYS called a ton when they first come out. You could argue that’s by design because they are trying to drum it out of the game, but it’s true.

 

illegal to hit QB’s below the knees. Called a ton when the penalty was first changed, sometimes penalties were bogus 

 

Illegal to land on QB during sack. Called a ton when the penalty was first changed, sometimes penalties were bogus.

 

Personal fouls on defenseless receiver. Called a ton when the penalty was first changed, sometimes they were bogus.

 

This is really obvious. They are not going to call this 1% of the time and it always be correct. They are going to get it wrong, often. 
 

This is really indisputable. I’m not sure there’s a single person who thinks the refs are going to always be right when they call this penalty, not even the refs probably believe that. 

That's an easy fix

 

Don't call it unless it's blatantly obvious... 

 

If you're debating if it's a hip drop tackle it probably is not...

 

Because there is a certain look and devastating element to the tackle

 

The league never said this is a humongous problem that exists during every play or all the time.. they said it is a rare type of tackle that occasionally happens that is very dangerous and they want to penalize it

 

They can't go from 1% of tackles to calling it seven times a game on a penalty.. this is to stop the few players in the league who are dangerous tacklers

 

It doesn't happen every game so they can't call it every game or yes it is out of hand.. nobody is saying you can't tackle a player from behind

Edited March 28 by Buffalo716

[FireChans]

16 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

That's an easy fix

 

Don't call it unless it's blatantly obvious... 

 

If you're debating if it's a hip drop tackle it probably is not...

 

Because there is a certain look and devastating element to the tackle

 

The league never said this is a humongous problem that exists during every play or all the time.. they said it is a rare type of tackle that occasionally happens that is very dangerous and they want to penalize it

 

They can't go from 1% of tackles to calling it seven times a game on a penalty.. this is to stop the few players in the league who are dangerous tacklers

 

It doesn't happen every game so they can't call it every game or yes it is out of hand.. nobody is saying you can't tackle a player from behind

"Don't call it unless it's blatantly obvious... "

This won't happen

 

"They can't go from 1% of tackles to calling it seven times a game on a penalty.. this is to stop the few players in the league who are dangerous tacklers"

 

They don't have to call it 7 times a game. They just have to be wrong a bunch of times calling it.

 

I am not afraid that they are going to miss hip drop tackle calls (they will but that's besides the point.) They are going to call the penalty wrong. This is a fact.

 

They say there were 230 hip drop tackles last year. Assuming coaches start telling guys "hey make sure not to do this," there will probably less of them. Let's say there's 200 of them. There's 272 games in the regular season.

 

So if they batted 1.000 on calling this penalty, they would call it less than once per game. Every 1.36 games. This won't happen, we can all agree.

 

If they called it, but were wrong 30% of the time, and missed valid calls 30% of the time, they would still call it every 1.36 games.  But 30% of those calls would be wrong. That's 69 calls over a 17 game season that are wrong. That's a wrong call every 4 games out of the 272 game season.

 

That's A LOT.

 

It's obvious scenario 2 is much more likely than scenario 1.  It's inarguable, really.

Edited March 28 by FireChans

[BananaB]

7 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

The Chiefs win a few super bowls and people think they're destined to win 10 LOL

 

After Tom Brady got his quick first three he didn't get another for a decade

 

I'd be willing to bet Patrick mahomes isn't winning any more super bowls anytime soon 

 

The Chiefs are played out.. and it's tough to keep motivation

This got nothing to do with Superbowls, it’s got to do with the refs helping them out along the way. 
 

Sick of questionable calls having an impact on games. I use to watch loads of football now I just watch the Bills. I see all the complaints on Twitter about officiating in other games.  Game is soft these days and the refs have too much impact on games. Just how it is. 
 

Edited March 28 by BananaB

[Punching Bag]

Steelers' Patrick Queen Rips NFL Rule Change

https://www.si.com/nfl/steelers/pittsburgh-steelers-patrick-queen-rips-hip-drop-tackle

Quote

 The Pittsburgh Steelers' newest star inside linebacker isn't happy with a massive rule change that will radically alter how NFL defenders play their games.

The NFL announced this week that the so-called "swivel hip drop tackle" will be banned next season and all Queen, who signed a three-year deal with the Steelers this offseason, sees is a harder life for defenders in a sport that has already made it harder and harder to defend without picking up penalties.

I guess he is worried he is not as valuable to Steelers paid for him.

 

Quote

But Queen is still afraid of what this will do to the game of football as a whole and his sentiment was echoed by a number of different current and former NFL stars like J.J. Watt and others.

 

[Donuts and Doritos]

MetLife & Tottenham Turf still legal. So much for player safety.

 

Edited March 30 by Donuts and Doritos

[90sBills]

On 3/27/2024 at 12:37 PM, Buffalo716 said:

The Chiefs win a few super bowls and people think they're destined to win 10 LOL

 

After Tom Brady got his quick first three he didn't get another for a decade

 

I'd be willing to bet Patrick mahomes isn't winning any more super bowls anytime soon 

 

The Chiefs are played out.. and it's tough to keep motivation

This sounds like a yearly offseason wish. 

[Bill Lewes]

Dont call a penalty, just hammer a fine afterwards

[Punching Bag]

4 minutes ago, Bill Lewes said:

Dont call a penalty, just hammer a fine afterwards

 

Fines mean very little if they can make a play which knocks a player out of game.

[Bill Lewes]

Fair enough, But if they stop the game for every tackle that might be a hip drop, itll make us all crazy

[Charles Romes]

For those worried the game is getting too soft, the “flying tackle” was originally banned for player safety in 1910 along with the tush push.

 

Harvard Crimson

NO WRITER ATTRIBUTED

September 28, 1910

In order that those interested in football may more fully understand the changes in the rules for 1910, it may be well to review the work of the committee and to state and explain what the changes are, although it is difficult to do so briefly, without the use of many technical terms.

One thing particularly should be clearly understood,--that the underlying purpose of the new rules was to minimize the element of danger in the game. To this purpose the committee adhered throughout all its work, and it should be commended for its single-minded efforts in this direction.

A list of the rules passed for the purpose of ensuring greater safety and an analysis of their probable effect shows how many and drastic the changes are. Moreover the other rules, though made in part for other reasons, should also help in the result sought for.

The changes made primarily to diminish the likelihood of physical injury were, briefly, as follows:

1. The halves are subdivided into four periods of 15 minutes each, so that the prolonged strain of 35 minutes of continuous play will now be removed, and the total time of play is reduced 10 minutes.

2. Players once withdrawn from the game can now be resubstituted, so that there is now no longer the temptation to play a man to the limit of his endurance before he is removed.

3. Flying tackles have been prohibited, in the hope that the heavier shocks of tackling may be prevented.

4. The runner is prohibited from "crawling" after being once downed, so that any "piling up" on the runner may be stopped.

5. The team on the offensive is prohibited from pushing or pulling the man running with the ball, a rule which should practically eliminate heavy mass plays.

[TwistofFate]

On 3/25/2024 at 10:54 AM, Process said:

This is going to be a mess, IMO

 

 

Just another way to rig games to cover spreads. 

 

FN joke. 

[FireChans]