We have not taken a step back.

[hondo in seattle]

23 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

McGovern is the putative starter.  Clapp is the backup.

 

As for the secondary, Poyer was washed and Tre missed almost the entire season.  And I think at worst they could get Hyde to come back given the soft safety market.  Linebacker will be set.  The issue is replacing Floyd.  Hopefully that's done by Von.

 

Doc, I know McGovern is the starter.  He was already on the squad last season, so I don't know how Morse's departure makes us better as the OP asserted when the OL roster clearly got worse (Morse released, Clapp signed).    Maybe McGovern will be a revelation as a starting center and play better than Morse.  And maybe Edwards, who seems likely to take over McGovern's vacated guard spot, plays guard better than McGovern.  But it's too many maybes.  

 

And for DE...  Floyd gave us double digit sacks last season.  If you want to think about it this way, his replacement as stud DE is Von who's coming off a significant injury and hasn't had double-digit sack production since 2018.  

 

Overall, I'm just not seeing a better roster - yet.  Though I'm hoping for the following:

 

*  Our key defensive players are healthier this season than they've been the past couple of years.

 

*  Beane finds some impact players in free agency and the draft.

 

*  Brady turns out to be a lights-out OC who gets the most out of his offensive players.  

[FireChans]

1 hour ago, SoonerBillsFan said:

I read many posts saying this team has taken a step back and truth is we have not. Lets break it down.

Offense:

QB = Same

RB =  Same

WR = Improved. Samuel IS an  upgrade over Davis

OL =  Same/ slightly improved  Morse was old, and light in the butt. McGovern is younger and has played center and been prepping for this moment

TE =  Improved. Kincaid now has a year of experience and will hit the weight room

OC =  improved. I cant wait to see his own system implemented

 

So the offense is slightly improved.

 

Defense:

DL = Same to slightly improved. We are all praying Von improves, and so far I feel we have improved our depth. We need to increase pass rush through the draft.

LB =  Improved. We will get Milano back and our other LB's greatly stepped up

CB: = Slightly Improved. Douglas now has time in our system and a full offseason to get it down. Benford has another year and hopefully the new DB coach can help Elam

Safety: = Slightly improved. This is the one position I expect hysterical wailing and gnashing of teeth on, but Hyde and Poyer were showing their age badly last year. I say the two new starters just have to be smart (keep your damn head and eyes up Rapp!) and be in the right position at the right time and tackle. 

 

Defense = Same to slightly improved

 

Do we still need WR, esp. Diggs replacement and an upgrade, yes. Do we still need to use draft picks on the Defense, Absolutely.  We are always looking to improve, but we are no where near as bad off as some fans, and media, want to make it out to be. 

Improved relative to the league? No.

[90sBills]

At best it’s even, roster wise, compared to last year. But it’s not a step back. Bills will still win the division and be #2 or #3 in the playoffs again. That’s where it will end. This roster hasn’t taken any significant steps forward in terms of talent so it’s difficult to envision getting past the divisional. That’s our ceiling the last few years and it won’t change. 

[TBBills Fan]

 

Edit: I felt this was relevant 

Edited March 24 by TBBills Fan

[PBF81]

1 hour ago, davefan66 said:

Morse is a bigger than loss people think. Great repport with Josh and smart guy to call the line.

 

As said above, are we treading water or making a step forward?

I don’t see us as better with the moves so far as much as stayed the same.

 

You and @hondo in seattle made the appropriate points.  

 

The other thing that cannot be overstated is the loss of chemistry on D with Poyer & Hyde both gone.  That's some serious experience and on-field leadership that's now gone.  

 

 

[Matt_In_NH]

After reading this I am convinced that if JA retired and KA was starting the Bills would be "slightly improved" at QB.

[MJS]

Well, I disagree. I think the team is a little worse. Nothing too drastic, but the offensive line is clearly worse. Worse depth and a backup from last year is now penciled in as a starter. Bates is gone and he was quality depth.

 

Hyde and Poyer are gone. They weren't the best last year, so maybe it's a push. We're worse at edge rusher without Floyd. No depth at defensive tackle.

 

The only position that appears to be stronger is wide receiver, which is good.

 

However, we're still in the middle of things. The draft hasn't even happened. Beane will sign more players before camp. I have no reason to believe the Bills won't field a very competitive team that is as good or better than last year's.

[gordong]

I'd say we are a little worse on both sides of the ball (as we sit here today) . go draft a stud WR and find another Pass rusher either in FA or a draft and we could take a leap forward finally.  I still think if we would have signed Hopkin last year we would be champs.. I hope they learned a lesson and get another WR high this year.  

Edited March 24 by gordong

[Buddy Hix]

I don’t see it. Diggs is getting old and Brady doesn’t know how to use him. The OL is a big question mark, same with the DL and safeties.

 

 

[Big Blitz]

Everywhere else is at least - on par.  Oline we absolutely have.  I’m not going to say this means draft the C in round 1 bc we definitely aren’t.  Not that I’d hate it but whatever..

 

Of every change happening nothing is even close to what we’re tinkering with in the IOL.  Everything about this organization’s “analytics” regarding salary and Guard play says they don’t value the positions.  
 

Yet they recognized they needed Morse in 2019.  They realized they needed a Guard (2!) in 2023 and drafted Torrence.  That fixed our interior after years of negligence and trading Teller.  Now we’re creating 2 new holes to fill.

 

Best Oline of Allen’s career and made Cook a 1000 plus yard back.  James Cook who I’m not really sure what he is yet.  Felt too inconsistent last year I feel like the Oline was just dominant and physical when it needed to be.  

 

So this isn’t just about protecting Allen.  The run game is at risk for taking a step back.  Edwards and McGovern are not good run blockers.  The game has shifted more to you need to be able to run and I’m not confident in this plan.  Feels like we’re doing the cheap version of what the Eagles are doing.  

Edited March 24 by Big Blitz

[FireChans]

1 hour ago, MJS said:

Well, I disagree. I think the team is a little worse. Nothing too drastic, but the offensive line is clearly worse. Worse depth and a backup from last year is now penciled in as a starter. Bates is gone and he was quality depth.

 

Hyde and Poyer are gone. They weren't the best last year, so maybe it's a push. We're worse at edge rusher without Floyd. No depth at defensive tackle.

 

The only position that appears to be stronger is wide receiver, which is good.

 

However, we're still in the middle of things. The draft hasn't even happened. Beane will sign more players before camp. I have no reason to believe the Bills won't field a very competitive team that is as good or better than last year's.

I am not really sure why folks care so much about trying to pretend the Bills are a better football. We still have Josh. It doesn't really matter.

 

How Bills fans, that suffered through the drought and Brady kicking our teeth in every year, have somehow forgotten that a great QB matters infinitely more than the talent level of the other 52 spots is one of life's biggest mysteries.

[HOUSE]

I think the problem is you read to many posts

[90sBills]

5 minutes ago, FireChans said:

I am not really sure why folks care so much about trying to pretend the Bills are a better football. We still have Josh. It doesn't really matter.

It matters because these playoffs exits have proven that just having Allen is not enough. He needs help. 

[FireChans]

3 minutes ago, 90sBills said:

It matters because these playoffs exits have proven that just having Allen is not enough. He needs help. 

Then we should compare ourselves to the playoff teams that keep showing us the door.

 

Have we closed the gap between us and KC by cutting Mitch Morse and moving McGovern to center and making Rapp a starting safety?

 

No. Obviously not.

[finn]

This board was pretty bullish last year at this time, as I recall. People were optimistic with things returning to normal after the truly weird 2022 season. Gabe Davis would finally shine, his injury behind him, Von and Tre would be back, a healthy Poyer and Hyde had another good year in them, Dorsey's offense and Kromer's O-line would improve with a year under its belt, and so on. But so many things went south, especially injuries. 

 

So, yes, I'm optimistic, but cautiously so. Actually, I'm most worried about Bass. You need a reliable kicker to win in this league, and Bass was not reliable last year.

[90sBills]

33 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Then we should compare ourselves to the playoff teams that keep showing us the door.

 

Have we closed the gap between us and KC by cutting Mitch Morse and moving McGovern to center and making Rapp a starting safety?

 

No. Obviously not.

I don’t think it has and it’s hard to envision advancing further than divisional. But they still have to play the games so who knows. Let’s be optimistic. 

[FireChans]

2 minutes ago, 90sBills said:

I don’t think it has and it’s hard to envision advancing further than divisional. But they still have to play the games so who knows. Let’s be optimistic. 

The fun thing about football is you can have a worse team and still win the Superbowl.

 

The greatest Pats team of the dynasty lost in the Superbowl. One of their worst teams of the dynasty won it in 2019. No one would ever argue that the 2019 team was better than the 2007 team. There's no reason to try to blind ourselves.

[buffblue]

3 hours ago, davefan66 said:

Morse is a bigger than loss people think. Great repport with Josh and smart guy to call the line.

 

As said above, are we treading water or making a step forward?

I don’t see us as better with the moves so far as much as stayed the same.

As the old saying goes, if you're not getting better you're getting worse. Still plenty of offseason remaining however

[BarleyNY]

Making a comparison to the previous year’s team is always tricky. The team at the beginning of the season or end? Are you comparing what we thought we had or what we ended up having? There’s a lot of TBD on this team. How much do Von and Milano get back to form? Do aging players - like Diggs - fall off? And if so, how much? How much improvement do we get from young players - like Kincaid and Shakir? What’s the impact of the new coordinators? Lots of questions we can’t answer. Overall it looks to me like the offense will be in good shape, but I have concerns about every level of the defense. 

[Doc Brown]

2 hours ago, PBF81 said:

 

You and @hondo in seattle made the appropriate points.  

 

The other thing that cannot be overstated is the loss of chemistry on D with Poyer & Hyde both gone.  That's some serious experience and on-field leadership that's now gone.  

 

 

True but don't underestimate McDermott's ability to coach up safeties.  The o-line is my main concern as we won't have as much injury luck as we did last year and our depth inside will be a lot weaker.