nedboy7 Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 Lot of hate on here for a guy who actually did the team a huge favor. This is a huge gift to the Bills. He did not have to do this in anyway. 3 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt_In_NH Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 7 minutes ago, nedboy7 said: Lot of hate on here for a guy who actually did the team a huge favor. This is a huge gift to the Bills. He did not have to do this in anyway. What are the details of what he did? I read he gave up 2M in guarantees but can earn that back and then some based on incentives? So he gave the bills some downside protection but he got some upside. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warriorspikes51 Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 3 minutes ago, Matt_In_NH said: What are the details of what he did? I read he gave up 2M in guarantees but can earn that back and then some based on incentives? So he gave the bills some downside protection but he got some upside. he gave up a TON of guaranteed money 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nedboy7 Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 1 minute ago, Warriorspikes51 said: he gave up a TON of guaranteed money Exactly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickelCity Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 I expect von to have a very good year next year. That will hurt the cap number, but maybe it won't feel so bad if he's a difference maker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt_In_NH Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 29 minutes ago, Warriorspikes51 said: he gave up a TON of guaranteed money Do you know the specifics or where I can see that? How much is a ton? I am interested in the before and after. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChans Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 5 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said: No, I never said that was the contract. What I said was that Von wouldn't have signed the contract if there weren't something like some NLTBE incentives in there. The player and team would have to agree on what those incentives would be. Looks like I was right about that and (mostly) right about how those incentives work. Obviously Von didn't get a sack last year and his incentives start at 2 sacks. I wonder if there's a $500k incentive for 1 sack of if there's a clause in the incentive verbiage that because of his natural position as an edge rusher, there's a baseline of expectation on the position based on the agreed upon metric. Like 1 sack for an edge rusher if sacks are the agreed upon metric. But if it were tackles and Von didn't have any tackles last year it would have been 1 tackle so he would need at least 2. Or for a WR if they 1 reception would probably be what the WR would want over 1 TD, etc. That's just my guess. But you can go look yourself. NLTBE incentives are based on prior year's performance. And I think everyone would want him to earn all of his money back. On 3/6/2024 at 6:29 PM, transplantbillsfan said: Actually I think he legitimately thinks he can still play and this new deal gives him the opportunity to earn more than what he was scheduled to earn. Think about it folks... you can almost guarantee that 2 of the "hard to reach incentives" put in his contract are tackles and sacks. That means if he gets more tackles than 2023, he reaches that incentive and earns more. That wouldn't be hard considering he had 3 tackles If he gets more sacks than in 2023, he reaches that incentive and earns more. That wouldn't be hard considering he had 0 sacks. My bet is another incentive will be games played or active, and considering he started the season on PUP, that might not be hard for him, either. So yes, this is a solid for Buffalo, but he may legitimately believe he's about to earn more than he was scheduled... and all of that money goes on next year's CAP. On 3/6/2024 at 6:24 PM, transplantbillsfan said: Super interesting, but I bet those "hard to reach incentives" were attainable in Von's eyes, which is why he agreed to it. 6 hours ago, MAJBobby said: The Full renegotiated terms So there is that little 7M cap ticket in Roster Bonus that could free up more money in a week if needed converting it to a signing and prorating. Here is to VON hitting all incentives and maximizing the deal, Likely means Bills won a SB. If this is "mostly right," I'm Miles Davis. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trev Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 1 hour ago, nedboy7 said: Lot of hate on here for a guy who actually did the team a huge favor. This is a huge gift to the Bills. He did not have to do this in anyway. Huge favor? Try again. He’s lucky he wasn’t cut after the domestic abuse incident. Plus we kept him active and in games last year when he should’ve been on IR all year, making us short handed on D. His lack of production essentially cost us a superbowl. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nedboy7 Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 (edited) 1 hour ago, Matt_In_NH said: Do you know the specifics or where I can see that? How much is a ton? I am interested in the before and after. 8.65 Mil this year. And 5sih following year I believe. Also the restructure gives them an out after this year. Edited March 8 by nedboy7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt_In_NH Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 Just now, nedboy7 said: 8.65 Mil this year. And 5sih following year I believe. That is cap savings not guarantees. Big difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nedboy7 Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 1 minute ago, Matt_In_NH said: That is cap savings not guarantees. Big difference. Miller has agreed to. cut his base pay this year from $17.5 million to $8.855 million, according to Field Yates of ESPN. That will save the Bills $8.645 million. At first glance, it appears that Miller took a pay cut to help the team out. Miller didn’t have to do anything: Before this renegotiation, his contract guaranteed him $10.71 million for 2024, and he could have told the Bills he’s holding them to the contract that both sides agreed to, and he’s not budging. Instead, Miller took significantly less. The deal does have upside for Miller in incentives that could push his pay all the way up to $20 million for 2024. We don’t know what those incentives are yet, but a player like Miller — who’s 35 years old and has seen his production decline significantly — typically wouldn’t be expected to hit a lot of incentives at this point in his career. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt_In_NH Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 40 minutes ago, nedboy7 said: Miller has agreed to. cut his base pay this year from $17.5 million to $8.855 million, according to Field Yates of ESPN. That will save the Bills $8.645 million. At first glance, it appears that Miller took a pay cut to help the team out. Miller didn’t have to do anything: Before this renegotiation, his contract guaranteed him $10.71 million for 2024, and he could have told the Bills he’s holding them to the contract that both sides agreed to, and he’s not budging. Instead, Miller took significantly less. The deal does have upside for Miller in incentives that could push his pay all the way up to $20 million for 2024. We don’t know what those incentives are yet, but a player like Miller — who’s 35 years old and has seen his production decline significantly — typically wouldn’t be expected to hit a lot of incentives at this point in his career. This has some information but not everything. Guess it doesn't really matter. Anyway, his base is cut from $17.5 million to $8.855 which saves 8.645 on the cap...that is not guarantees that is cap. His guarantee for 2024 was 10.71M. What is it now? Also, some of that Here is another nugget online ". They moved more cap into the future by converting some of that compensation into a bonus and prorating it, but the details of that remain unclear." So some of the cap decrease is not just a paycut, I contend the paycut is not that signficant, they are giving him the opportunity to make it all up and then some, so it was a trade off of guarantees for a high ceiling for Von. The restructure saved a lot of cap, did not reduce his guarantees a "TON". They accomplished this by some traditional restructure....converting salary to bonus and prorating it and some by a change in the guarantees for 24 with the NLTBE incentives. Over the cap mentions the details are not out "Miller accepted a pay cut in 2024 reducing his salary from $17.5 million to $8.885 million per ESPN's Field Yates. We have updated his contract figures for 2024 based on a handful of reports about the pay reduction and will update further when we receive more information on the contract." Anyway, the cap reduction is what people care about but tit is not being as widely reported that they did bonus proration which is not great for his situation. According to multiple reports, the Bills and linebacker Von Miller agreed to terms on a contract restructure. NFL Network's Ian Rapoport reports that Miller's 2024 base salary of $17.145 million was lowered to $8.5 million. Additionally, there are "reachable incentives" that can get him back to earning $17.145 million and additional, higher incentives to bring him nearly $20 million. https://www.buffalorumblings.com/2024/3/7/24093419/von-miller-updated-2024-contract-details-with-incentives-explained https://fansided.com/posts/bills-continue-free-up-cap-space-restructuring-von-miller-contract-01hrb563tgtt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 3 hours ago, Warriorspikes51 said: he gave up a TON of guaranteed money a ton of not yet guaranteed money Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanC883 Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 (edited) FA DL incoming?!! Edited March 8 by RyanC883 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transplantbillsfan Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 2 hours ago, FireChans said: If this is "mostly right," I'm Miles Davis. Your Wife must be proud Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warriorspikes51 Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 (edited) 26 minutes ago, RyanC883 said: FA DL incoming?!! If he makes it to Monday, Chris Jones would be the most impactful acquisition possible. He’s 29. Would you give him a 5 year 150 mil deal? I’m guessing that’s ballpark of what he’ll sign for. He’s likely All-Pro level for 3 more seasons IMO Edited March 8 by Warriorspikes51 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterStrategist Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 1 hour ago, Matt_In_NH said: This has some information but not everything. Guess it doesn't really matter. Anyway, his base is cut from $17.5 million to $8.855 which saves 8.645 on the cap...that is not guarantees that is cap. His guarantee for 2024 was 10.71M. What is it now? Also, some of that Here is another nugget online ". They moved more cap into the future by converting some of that compensation into a bonus and prorating it, but the details of that remain unclear." So some of the cap decrease is not just a paycut, I contend the paycut is not that signficant, they are giving him the opportunity to make it all up and then some, so it was a trade off of guarantees for a high ceiling for Von. The restructure saved a lot of cap, did not reduce his guarantees a "TON". They accomplished this by some traditional restructure....converting salary to bonus and prorating it and some by a change in the guarantees for 24 with the NLTBE incentives. Over the cap mentions the details are not out "Miller accepted a pay cut in 2024 reducing his salary from $17.5 million to $8.885 million per ESPN's Field Yates. We have updated his contract figures for 2024 based on a handful of reports about the pay reduction and will update further when we receive more information on the contract." Anyway, the cap reduction is what people care about but tit is not being as widely reported that they did bonus proration which is not great for his situation. According to multiple reports, the Bills and linebacker Von Miller agreed to terms on a contract restructure. NFL Network's Ian Rapoport reports that Miller's 2024 base salary of $17.145 million was lowered to $8.5 million. Additionally, there are "reachable incentives" that can get him back to earning $17.145 million and additional, higher incentives to bring him nearly $20 million. https://www.buffalorumblings.com/2024/3/7/24093419/von-miller-updated-2024-contract-details-with-incentives-explained https://fansided.com/posts/bills-continue-free-up-cap-space-restructuring-von-miller-contract-01hrb563tgtt Spotrac tells a different story, than you're referencing above. Salary: all agree that was reduced significantly Cap in 2024: all agree this reduced by approx $8m 2024 Roster bonus: Spotrac shows this as "non guaranteed" (but ability to convert to signing bonus). This is where the difference lies with what you stated above. 2024 Guaranteed $: not yet clear, but if the roster bonus isn't guaranteed, then we're talking somewhere close to 8.5m as gtd $. And your original $10m estimate was low, it was closer to $17m for 2024 Incentives: yes these could put Von in better $ situation, but I personally like the "pay for performance" incentives (which don't count against cap) Future cap years: I'm not seeing how our future cap is implicated at all. Unless his roster bonus was indeed "guaranteed"/amortized across remaining years of deal (which would add approx $2m to each future year) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 3 hours ago, Trev said: Huge favor? Try again. He’s lucky he wasn’t cut after the domestic abuse incident. Plus we kept him active and in games last year when he should’ve been on IR all year, making us short handed on D. His lack of production essentially cost us a superbowl. Keeping him active and in games is not on Von Miller, it’s on his coaches and medical staff who determined he was a better option than another player and inserted him in the lineup. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 (edited) 7 hours ago, Matt_In_NH said: This has some information but not everything. Guess it doesn't really matter. Anyway, his base is cut from $17.5 million to $8.855 which saves 8.645 on the cap...that is not guarantees that is cap. His guarantee for 2024 was 10.71M. What is it now? Also, some of that Here is another nugget online ". They moved more cap into the future by converting some of that compensation into a bonus and prorating it, but the details of that remain unclear." So some of the cap decrease is not just a paycut, I contend the paycut is not that signficant, they are giving him the opportunity to make it all up and then some, so it was a trade off of guarantees for a high ceiling for Von. The restructure saved a lot of cap, did not reduce his guarantees a "TON". They accomplished this by some traditional restructure....converting salary to bonus and prorating it and some by a change in the guarantees for 24 with the NLTBE incentives. Over the cap mentions the details are not out "Miller accepted a pay cut in 2024 reducing his salary from $17.5 million to $8.885 million per ESPN's Field Yates. We have updated his contract figures for 2024 based on a handful of reports about the pay reduction and will update further when we receive more information on the contract." Anyway, the cap reduction is what people care about but tit is not being as widely reported that they did bonus proration which is not great for his situation. According to multiple reports, the Bills and linebacker Von Miller agreed to terms on a contract restructure. NFL Network's Ian Rapoport reports that Miller's 2024 base salary of $17.145 million was lowered to $8.5 million. Additionally, there are "reachable incentives" that can get him back to earning $17.145 million and additional, higher incentives to bring him nearly $20 million. https://www.buffalorumblings.com/2024/3/7/24093419/von-miller-updated-2024-contract-details-with-incentives-explained https://fansided.com/posts/bills-continue-free-up-cap-space-restructuring-von-miller-contract-01hrb563tgtt Before the move his CAP hit in 2024 was $23.5m. $17.5m was guaranteed. This was made up of $6m of bonuses all of which have already been paid (2022 signing bonus and 2023 restructure bonus) which existed on the 2024 cap already and still do - so they are irrelevant for this purpose. And a $17.5m base salary of which $11m was fully guaranteed. What Von and the Bills have done affects only that base salary element. Pre pay cut $11m guaranteed $6.5m that was unguaranteed but due to guarantee on 18/03/24. Post pay cut $1.5m guaranteed $7m roster bonus (which would normally guarantee when the league year starts on the 13th and I can't see anything that disputes that) Therefore while at the point that Von did the deal he was only cutting his guarantees from $11m to essentially $8.5m, so a cut of $2.5m, the reality is if he was going to be on the team (and I say this as someone who was advocating a post 1 June cut) he was about to get an additional $6.5m guranteed. So in reality all of that cap saving ($9m by my calcs because I have rounded everything to the nearest 0.5 for ease of explanation but in reality $8.8m) is pay cut money that Von has left on the table. Two further points: 1. The Bills could still get further cap relief by converting the roster bonus into a restructure bonus which would spread the $7m across 4 years and save a futher $5m on this year's cap. 2. Next year's cap is totally unaffected UNTIL Von earns any of the incentive money back which would land on the 2025 cap. Spotrac now has the "earn back" elements listed as: 2024 Sack Incentives (non-cumulative) 2: $1M 4: $2.5M 6: $4M 8: $6M 10.5: $8.645M 15: $9.645M $1.5M for an AFC Championship Win + 30%+ snaps + 12 regular season snaps Edited March 8 by GunnerBill 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarleyNY Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 The one very large point that most people are missing is that the Bills may have been able to void the guarantees in Miller’s contract due to his off the field issues. That would have allowed them to cut him with no additional money owed. Part of the negotiation was obviously to avoid that fight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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