machine gun kelly Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 On 3/6/2024 at 6:16 PM, Dablitzkrieg said: Von was not restructured. The team doesn’t have to inform a player they are converting salary to signing bonus to smooth out the cap hit. This was a si place agreed upon pay cut, and the team was right. Von isn’t stupid. He knows he didn’t do Jack last year. He also knows if he comes back to form he creates motivation for a pay increase in a year. I doubt that happens, but I’m so proud of Beane making the hard choices on contracts. We will get younger with 11 picks. My guess is we move up a couple times and settle in on 7-8 picks. As long as the 1st round is WR and eventually a D Lineman. I know we need a safety or two, and another mid round WR. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 12 minutes ago, BarleyNY said: The one very large point that most people are missing is that the Bills may have been able to void the guarantees in Miller’s contract due to his off the field issues. That would have allowed them to cut him with no additional money owed. Part of the negotiation was obviously to avoid that fight. While this is possibly true it wasn't going to happen before they needed to make the decision (i.e. 10 days time). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarleyNY Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 (edited) 7 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: While this is possibly true it wasn't going to happen before they needed to make the decision (i.e. 10 days time). But it certainly could have happened before the season began and his salary was paid. And teams can go after some signing bonus money too. Also we don’t know what clauses related to off the field incidents are in the contract. It’s not like Von hasn’t had those before. I’m sure Beane was smart enough to cover his butt on a deal this big with a guy how has had some issues in the past. Edited March 8 by BarleyNY Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 3 minutes ago, BarleyNY said: But it certainly could have happened before the season began and his salary was paid. And teams can go after some signing bonus money too. Also we don’t know what clauses related to off the field incidents are in the contract. It’s not like Von hasn’t had those before. I’m sure Beane was smart enough to cover his butt on a deal this big with a guy how has had some issues in the past. Again, true, but the Bills needed to make a decision now. They couldn't bet on being in a position to do a claw back later. Von had the leverage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Romes Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 Von realized the only chance he has to improve his post career public image and brand at this point is to produce something on the field. The renegotiation makes that at least theoretically possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarleyNY Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 41 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: Again, true, but the Bills needed to make a decision now. They couldn't bet on being in a position to do a claw back later. Von had the leverage. That depends on the specific contract language, which we obviously don’t have. I think it’s pretty safe to assume that an attempt to void guarantees was at least going to be a fight. And probably a bad look for the org. So Beane absolutely did the right thing here. My point was that this wasn’t some pure act of kindness on Miller’s part. He was still looking out for himself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 17 hours ago, CA OC Bills Fan said: Yeah, I just read the terms that were posted above after posting my response to NoSaint. Even though Miller is one of the most positive people I've heard, I doubt even he believes he's going to get 15 sacks or even the 10.5 that he'd need to earn $8.645 bonus. But, perhaps 8 sacks to earn $6 million? Obviously, as unlikely as it is, we'll all root for him to get the 15 sacks and earn the full bonus. I think many want him to play to his contract. I doubt many will be cheering him on to make 20 more million dollars. 16 hours ago, NewEra said: Do you think 15 sacks is his only goal here? That line of thinking implies that15 sacks is the only incentive. It’s not. There are several incentives. Each sack is that much closer to getting him millions more. He’ll be playing with 💯+ effort as long as his knee isn’t still bothering him. I have no doubt. I don’t think he’d be trying harder if he had that money guaranteed, especially if he didn’t have confidence in his knee. You miss the point. 15 sacks gets him to his originally agreed upon salary. It's not really a "bonus". Plus this notion that he is "betting on himself" is silly---he had little chance but to accept this deal, given his age, recent injury and subsequent lack of production. 16 hours ago, billsfan89 said: I don’t doubt Von came for money but I also think he is going to play hard to get as much of his incentives as he can. About half if not more of his salary in this upcoming seasons are incentives that are attainable. So I think your assessment of Von in 2024 is not accurate he’s going to give it all he has. Of course he came for the money--and Beane was happy to overpay. Why else would he be here? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 Just now, Mr. WEO said: I think many want him to play to his contract. I doubt many will be cheering him on to make 20 more million dollars. You miss the point. 15 sacks gets him to his originally agreed upon salary. It's not really a "bonus". Plus this notion that he is "betting on himself" is silly---he had little chance but to accept this deal, given his age, recent injury and subsequent lack of production. Of course he came for the money--and Beane was happy to overpay. Why else would he be here? No, you’re missing the point. He was going to get paid 10.7M for nothing. Now he’s getting 8.5 and can get over double that if he hits his incentives. Every sack he gets= closer to making millions more. You insinuated that he wouldn’t be trying as hard because he was making less…..while also saying that the only reason he came he was for money. That said- if money is the only thing he cares about, why would he NOT give it his 💯? Why would he not try harder? His $ is directly tied to his performance. If we would’ve cut him, he could have gotten his 10.7M from us plus another contract from another team. Someone would’ve paid him 4-5M- possibly a good amount more depending on how he looked in his workout. And that money wouldn’t depend on him getting sacks 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 1 minute ago, NewEra said: No, you’re missing the point. He was going to get paid 10.7M for nothing. Now he’s getting 8.5 and can get over double that if he hits his incentives. Every sack he gets= closer to making millions more. You insinuated that he wouldn’t be trying as hard because he was making less…..while also saying that the only reason he came he was for money. That said- if money is the only thing he cares about, why would he NOT give it his 💯? Why would he not try harder? His $ is directly tied to his performance. If we would’ve cut him, he could have gotten his 10.7M from us plus another contract from another team. Someone would’ve paid him 4-5M- possibly a good amount more depending on how he looked in his workout. And that money wouldn’t depend on him getting sacks He was due 18 million+ "for nothing", before restructuring. His current incentives may as well have included developing a home kit for nuclear fusion... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 5 hours ago, Mr. WEO said: He was due 18 million+ "for nothing", before restructuring. His current incentives may as well have included developing a home kit for nuclear fusion... No, the 15 sack incentive may have well included developing a home kit for nuclear infusion. He’s definitely capable of reaching a couple of them, if not more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Process Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 Sack incentives are perfect. Should make him more willing to tackle. Seems like he was avoiding contact at all costs last season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 26 minutes ago, NewEra said: No, the 15 sack incentive may have well included developing a home kit for nuclear infusion. He’s definitely capable of reaching a couple of them, if not more. If this was 2012, 2014 or even 2016---or if his ACL was not surgically reconstructed at age 33---or if he was at all serviceable this past season a year out from his injury....you might have a point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 2 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said: If this was 2012, 2014 or even 2016---or if his ACL was not surgically reconstructed at age 33---or if he was at all serviceable this past season a year out from his injury....you might have a point. Nonsense- 2,4 and 6 sacks are all on the table. 8 unlikely, but still possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyDays Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 9 hours ago, GunnerBill said: 2024 Sack Incentives (non-cumulative) 2: $1M 4: $2.5M 6: $4M 8: $6M 10.5: $8.645M 15: $9.645M $1.5M for an AFC Championship Win + 30%+ snaps + 12 regular season snaps I thought people were saying Von had a chance to earn a lot more than his paycut next year if he hit all his incentives. The way you laid it out here he would only earn more if he hit 15+ sacks, or 10.5+ sacks plus a Super Bowl appearance. So yeah this is just a straight up pay cut. Von didn't "bet on himself" as some have said. I am quite confident that Beane forced this on him with the threat of release. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 (edited) 10 minutes ago, HappyDays said: I thought people were saying Von had a chance to earn a lot more than his paycut next year if he hit all his incentives. The way you laid it out here he would only earn more if he hit 15+ sacks, or 10.5+ sacks plus a Super Bowl appearance. So yeah this is just a straight up pay cut. Von didn't "bet on himself" as some have said. I am quite confident that Beane forced this on him with the threat of release. He does have a "chance" to earn more but its all theoretical. I think there is little to no chance he even musters 6 sacks IMO. The first two incentives are in play and possibly the final one if the team succeeds. He left money on the table. The Bills didn't have a lot of leverage so one assumes there was some willingness on Von's side. At the moment as we stand today he has left more money on the table with the pay cut ($8.8m) than he would have if the Bills had just cut him ($6.5m). If he gets at least 4 sacks he is basically even ($200k up), he needs at least 6 sacks to actually end up in profit on the deal as against being cut. And as you say he needs a lot more than that to be in profit as against the original contract. Personally I'd still have cut him. But I can live with him back on this deal and as a rotational piece. Edited March 8 by GunnerBill 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trev Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 15 hours ago, K-9 said: Keeping him active and in games is not on Von Miller, it’s on his coaches and medical staff who determined he was a better option than another player and inserted him in the lineup. You can’t believe that. We were doing him a favor or coaches were trying to make protect gm, anyone could see he was a major liability all year last year. He should have never seen the field, he was terrible. Bills then did him another favor by not Araizanizing him after his domestic abuse charge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 (edited) 1 hour ago, NewEra said: Nonsense- 2,4 and 6 sacks are all on the table. 8 unlikely, but still possible. that's nice. see Happy Days and GunnerB above for more info.... Edited March 8 by Mr. WEO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said: that's nice. see Happy Days and GunnerB above for more info.... Not sure where they agreed with you that Von has no incentive to play harder….thats what you and I were discussing @HappyDays @GunnerBill Do you guys think that Von has little to no incentive to play hard this season? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnNord Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 On 3/6/2024 at 6:16 PM, Dablitzkrieg said: If I was allowed to start a new thread, I would ask this question “How much do you blame Brandon Beane for missing on Von Miller?” Because I don’t blame him. He gave a lot of money to an older player, however he had no way of knowing Von would blow his ACL and never be the same player. This is the risk you run with ANY player, you’re always one bad injury. When Von was active, he made an impact and had he played an entire season in 2022, he’d likely rack up between 10-12 sacks. I guess you can point to his age, however really elite DE’s like Bruce Smith or Reggie White played very well into their 30’s. I wouldn’t put Von in that tier but he’s not that far off. Its easy to look at Von last season and then to look at his contract and think it was a colossal bust but in doing you, your using a lot of hindsight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyDays Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said: that's nice. see Happy Days and GunnerB above for more info.... 6 minutes ago, NewEra said: @HappyDays @GunnerBill Do you guys think that Von has little to no incentive to play hard this season? Why does this remind me of when mommy and daddy pulled me into a room to ask which house I wanted to live in 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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