billsfan89 Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 8 offensive players (9 if you include the first traded for Diggs) vs. 7 defensive players. Seems like a solid balance. I thought going into the 2021 and 2022 drafts there was an over-investment in defense. But after spending top picks on offense (Kincaid and Torrence were plug-and-play starters) in 2023 I thought they course-corrected. I think this year they have to go top pick at WR and defense in round two. There are going to be some key defensive needs like safety and defensive line so after getting Josh more fire power and a Diggs heir apparent I have no issue helping sure up the defense. Then in round 3 I go BPA at WR or Safety/D-line. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HardyBoy Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 1 minute ago, GunnerBill said: Some interesting food for thought. The complexity of the offense is definitely a consideration. Gabe had production as a rookie though even if he wasn't an every down player. They obviously think it is a comparative value thing. But as I said before this is consistent with how and where Beane was brought up in this business. Carolina did not draft receivers early very often in his time there. They drafted DL, LB and RB earlier that most other teams. Beane is following that trend here. I'm sure 2020 still featured a lot of half field reads (I'm assuming that makes it easier for receivers, but probably if it was easier it was because Allen needed routes to be locked in more at that stage of his development), but I think an even bigger factor was the empty stadiums. Basically the first reasonably full away stadium they played in was Arrowhead in the divisional that year and it really looked like it impacted the offense a lot, which could explain the benefit gained from the lack of crowd noise for especially a rookie wr that was winning because of schemed up mismatches a lot. They play hurry up, Allen gets to the line with 20+ seconds on the play clock, Daboll reads the presnap and gives Allen the audibles through the helmet before it cuts off at 15 seconds, Allen is able to communicate it really easily to the receivers and there you have it. I think you're right on this is how Beane has learned and feels deeply is the best way to build a team, but it requires those one year wrs to be able to come in and perform immediately and Beane is too good a talent evaluator for the number of receivers to have come in to all look mediocre like they have the last few seasons. Really hoping that they let these wrs start just playing instead of having to think so damn much all the time. I feel like I am hoping that the offense starts empowering the receivers to beat their match up, instead focusing on having them beat the scheme...just go out there and win the match up and have Allen's eyes/progressions get to the receiver at the moment he'll be able to tell if they won in terms of getting the right leverage on the defense so he can throw with anticipation. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thrivefourfive Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 The DLine and Runningbacks room is a major disappointment based on the usage of high draft picks. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Einstein Posted February 14 Author Share Posted February 14 3 hours ago, GunnerBill said: It goes back further. Buffalo and Tampa have both gone since 2017 without drafting a day 1 or 2 wide receiver. It is ridiculous. And Beane should be held to account for it. I have zero proof but it just seems improbable that McD has no say in this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Einstein said: I have zero proof but it just seems improbable that McD has no say in this. Oh he definitely has a say. But Brandon Beane is the guy who runs personnel. He has the final call. It is his decision. And as I have said elsewhere the drafting tendencies Beane has now are the ones he grew up with in Carolina, even before McDermott and he met. Worth adding the one draft that we know McDermott ran he drafted a receiver in the 2nd round. Edited February 14 by GunnerBill 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCBills Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 3 hours ago, Billl said: They gave up a first rounder and then some for Diggs, and Kincaid is basically a slot receiver. Y’all have Kelce and proceeded to draft back to back RD2 WR’s, trade for a former RD1 and sign MVS & Juju (last year). Bills traded for Diggs, drafted Davis in RD4, Shakir RD5 and decided Allen can figure it out with tomato cans after the Emmanuel Sanders year. I know some of the moves haven’t worked out and/or TBD, but along with heavy OL investment, you probably underestimate how much we envy what Veach/Reid have done for Mahomes in relation to Beane/McDermott for Allen. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweats Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 14 hours ago, Kaenon said: We did trade a 1st for Diggs though, so we spent a 1st on a WR Unfortunately, as much as i like Diggs, we should have made a play for Justin Jefferson....Diggs is getting old and slow....JJ is just hitting his prime. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
entropyrules Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 14 hours ago, JimBob2232 said: Really the only bad recent misses are Elam, Basham, and Moss. You cant hit them all....but I think our hit rate is pretty damn good. Not so sure about Moss...he seemed pretty capable when he played for the Colts. Is it possible the Bills didn't utilize him correctly or they (the Bills) missed because his style of play didn't fit how the Bills run the O? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 2 hours ago, entropyrules said: Not so sure about Moss...he seemed pretty capable when he played for the Colts. Is it possible the Bills didn't utilize him correctly or they (the Bills) missed because his style of play didn't fit how the Bills run the O? Yea Moss suffered from a combination of our style not meshing with his and injuries and a bad oline for some of his time here. I think he was overdrafted though. He was never a 3rd round talent. If they'd picked him rounds 4 or 5 fine. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBFL Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 No surprise the most is DBs, OLine, DLine and WR in a pass orientated league. QB also shows you the lack of talent, or belief of, through the past 5 years also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Hindsight Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 18 hours ago, Chicken Boo said: 5 years and not one 1st-3rd round pick on a wideout is strange. I'm more concerned about how they just want to sit on their hands at QB. The one we got is way to commercialized Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigK14094 Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 18 hours ago, Chicken Boo said: 5 years and not one 1st-3rd round pick on a wideout is strange. The Diggs trade was essentially giving up a #1 for him. So, the numbers lie here to that extent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gigs Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 Yes this needs to change, but not spending any 1-3s on WR and still having a top offense should be a good indicator of where we can go when we do draft WRs early Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooklynBills Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 17 hours ago, JimBob2232 said: A little misleading as technically we traded a first for Diggs. But the bigger alarm is three RBs. I had to look to validate that. I remember cook, but forgot Singletary and moss were in there as 3rd rounders. Big difference if one of them was a productive WR, LB or DB last year. But I cant fault Beane/McDermott here. Drafting has been top notch. Sure we wish we could hit MORE - but I'd venture to say our hit rate is in the top tier. It's pretty incredible actually the late round "Hits". Gabe Davis, Benford, Spector, Teller, Shakir, Hamlin, Hodgins, Dane, Teller, McCloud, Neal.... Really the only bad recent misses are Elam, Basham, and Moss. You cant hit them all....but I think our hit rate is pretty damn good. The RB thing is also a bit misleading and I think we need to keep in mind the state of the roster that they inherited, especially on offense. They spent 2 3rds and 1 2nd on RBs since they've been here but the Bill hadn't selected a RB before the 5th round since CJ Spiller in 2010. They inherited a team with an aging McCoy and basically nothing behind him. Even looking at the best offenses in the NFL, they have all spent multiple day 1 and 2 picks over a period of 5 years. The age quotient of the position means that you cannot continually keep trying to go to the FA well or give RBs 2nd contracts. The whole idea of not giving RBs 2nd contracts means that you've likely drafted them and have them on a rookie deal. Look at SF, who runs an offense where everyone thinks that anyone can get production at RB - they have spent a 2nd and 3 3rds (and a 4th) on the RB position. LAR - as soon as Gurley fell off, they immediately went RB in round 3 and then again in round 2. Also spent a 4th on Sony Michel trade. Another thing to keep in context here is that the Bills did spend a high 2nd round pick (Zay Jones) and a 2018 3rd (Benjamin trade) on WR right before drafting Allen. After drafting Allen, the Bills have done the following at WR: 2019 - signed John Brown and Cole Beasely as starters; drafted Knox in the 3rd. 2020 - traded a 1st (and a 4th) for Diggs; drafted Davis with a 4th. 2021 - signed Emmanuel Sanders It's not like they haven't spent capital there and they also had some entrenched starters at the position throughout. They did neglect it from a draft standpoint in 2021 and 2022, but again those years they had some entrenched players at the position. Was anyone upset with the WR depth chart in 2021? No. It wasn't a great situation heading into 2022 but what WRs did you want them selecting in the first 3 rounds that year? Is this team that much better if we have Skyy Moore or Christian Watson on it instead of selecting Elam? Marginally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaenon Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 4 hours ago, Sweats said: Unfortunately, as much as i like Diggs, we should have made a play for Justin Jefferson....Diggs is getting old and slow....JJ is just hitting his prime. Funny that was the pick at the slot we traded to MIN for Diggs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweats Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 3 minutes ago, Kaenon said: Funny that was the pick at the slot we traded to MIN for Diggs. That's right and who got the better of that deal? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paup 1995MVP Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 18 hours ago, JimBob2232 said: A little misleading as technically we traded a first for Diggs. But the bigger alarm is three RBs. I had to look to validate that. I remember cook, but forgot Singletary and moss were in there as 3rd rounders. Big difference if one of them was a productive WR, LB or DB last year. But I cant fault Beane/McDermott here. Drafting has been top notch. Sure we wish we could hit MORE - but I'd venture to say our hit rate is in the top tier. It's pretty incredible actually the late round "Hits". Gabe Davis, Benford, Spector, Teller, Shakir, Hamlin, Hodgins, Dane, Teller, McCloud, Neal.... Really the only bad recent misses are Elam, Basham, and Moss. You cant hit them all....but I think our hit rate is pretty damn good. What alternate reality are you living in Jim Bob? To say that Spector Teller Hamlin Hodgins McCloud and Neal have been hits for us is categorically false. None have done anything for the Bills to help towards winning a championship. (Maybe Spector still does.) Drafting guys is one thing. But keeping them on your team is also part of the process. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BananaB Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 5 years and 5 picks at RB and TE. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 I've read here over and over that McBeane are very good at evaluating the draft for WRs. They simply choose not to display this skill... ...or something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billzgobowlin Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 21 hours ago, hondo in seattle said: The Bills' goose egg for WR stands out. When you've got a good gun, wouldn't you want to buy ammunition? Does trading for Diggs sort of count? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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