Tyler Dunne story on McDermott - 3 parts, 25 interviews, one damning conclusion

[Beck Water]

7 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

Trying to say that it's reasonable to assume the truck was a bribe from the wideouts to their position coach in order to absolve McDermott is really wild

 

I hesitate to speak for @HardyBoy, but to the extent that I've opined here, that's not what I'm saying.  And @HardyBoy has explictly said something to the effect of "I don't suppose for one minute the truck was intended as a bribe".  So it's kind of weird that you come back with this.

 

 Let's assume that the hearts of the WR were totally pure.  They LOVED their WR coach, they really felt he made a difference to them all, and they wanted to make him a gift he would truly appreciate.  So they hatched the idea to get him a truck.

 

The coach or coaches Dunne quoted saw it as an unmixed bag of Cool Beans "It's impossible for any sane person to watch this heartwarming video and not feel happy for Hall."

 

Well, I'd like to think I'm a sane person and when I watched that video, honest to God I felt horror that the NFL was going to gobsmack the Bills for violating Covid rules.  So that's one thing.  It seems a legit concern for a HC to feel at the time, given that the NFL forced Denver to play without QB.  What if the Bills being forced to play a game without any WR flashed before McDermott's eyes?  Would that be legit cause to be "not pleased" by Hall having them all over to his house?

 

The other point that is trying to be made here is that while the WR may have intended it as a gesture of pure love and respect, from the POV of a buck-stopping people manager, it factually has its problematic side, no matter how pure the intent was. 
 

And the stuff about why McDermott reacted negatively (jealous of a relationship he is mentally physically and psychologically incapable of) is purely the interviewee's opinion/interpretation, which I would call an attack on McD's character.  The part about "zero relationship with the offensive players, none" seems to be contradicted by several instances and pieces of information.

[JohnNord]

4 hours ago, Scott7975 said:

 

He sure sounds like a GM that supports his coach.  The brain trust here tells me that Beane will recommend firing him 

[Wayne Arnold]

16 minutes ago, HardyBoy said:

 

Except I'm very much not and if I was in McDs position I would be pissed as well.

 

Then you're both weirdos.

[GoBills808]

6 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

I hesitate to speak for @HardyBoy, but to the extent that I've opined here, that's not what I'm saying.  And @HardyBoy has explictly said something to the effect of "I don't suppose for one minute the truck was intended as a bribe".  So it's kind of weird that you come back with this.

 

 Let's assume that the hearts of the WR were totally pure.  They LOVED their WR coach, they really felt he made a difference to them all, and they wanted to make him a gift he would truly appreciate.  So they hatched the idea to get him a truck.

 

The coach or coaches Dunne quoted saw it as an unmixed bag of Cool Beans "It's impossible for any sane person to watch this heartwarming video and not feel happy for Hall."

 

Well, I'd like to think I'm a sane person and when I watched that video, honest to God I felt horror that the NFL was going to gobsmack the Bills for violating Covid rules.  So that's one thing.  It seems a legit concern for a HC to feel at the time, given that the NFL forced Denver to play without QB.  What if the Bills being forced to play a game without any WR flashed before McDermott's eyes?  Would that be legit cause to be "not pleased" by Hall having them all over to his house?

 

The other point that is trying to be made here is that while the WR may have intended it as a gesture of pure love and respect, from the POV of a buck-stopping people manager, it factually has its problematic side, no matter how pure the intent was. 
 

And the stuff about why McDermott reacted negatively (jealous of a relationship he is mentally physically and psychologically incapable of) is purely the interviewee's opinion/interpretation, which I would call an attack on McD's character.  The part about "zero relationship with the offensive players, none" seems to be contradicted by several instances and pieces of information.

I don't remember what the COVID rules were but they were outside

 

As far as gift giving being problematic the only factual basis I've seen is because you and he feel that it is

[Beck Water]

19 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

And Chad Hall leaving in a lateral move was just a coincidence right

 

@GoBills808, what crawled into you tonight?  You're usually quite a reasonable poster with takes I like to read and who can engage in a good discussion where points get acknowledged and debated. 

 

Today, your responses seem like they're firing right left and long of the post you're responding to, and either deliberately not acknowledging or unable to recognize the point.

4 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

I don't remember what the COVID rules were but they were outside

 

It was said on social media that they were at a Christmas party at Hall's house when they brought him outside to see his truck.

So they were inside, at a party.

 

 

4 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

As far as gift giving being problematic the only factual basis I've seen is because you and he feel that it is

 

I Give Up.  If you started here, it might be worth trying to engage, but since you started with "you think it's a bribe" to @HardyBoy (AFTER he explicitly said he didn't for one moment believe that), and then moved on to "it's only problematic because you guys feel it is" (ignoring any basis we stated)....yeah, I'm Out.  You win. Feel good about that.

Edited December 9, 2023 by Beck Water

[Warcodered]

11 minutes ago, Mikie2times said:

I'm not going to assume that line was crossed because a group of guys coordinated to do something special. 

The group of guys all got together when they weren't supposed to at the coaches house, with the way the NFL was enforcing the Covid rules back then we could have gotten hosed on that. It wasn't exactly a small gift for a position coach.

[Beck Water]

17 minutes ago, Mikie2times said:

No, we see the point. If you have nothing but pricks as coaches you won't get the best out of anybody. It's a balancing act. 

 

With this I agree.  But can you acknowledge that there's a lot of space between being a "prick" to your guys, and being so well liked that they gift you a truck?

[HardyBoy]

Just now, Wayne Arnold said:

 

Then you're both weirdos.

 

People on my team wanted to give a gift card to my manager on Manager Day...I pushed back on that as well...gifts shouldn't flow up the chain, plus I know for a fact it would have made her uncomfortable and my company has rules against thinge like that.

 

I also get that he makes less than most of the players and you could argue that both are labor and not management, but Terry P is the one responsible for giving gifts to his employees/coaches, not the players.

 

Also, the number of players that go bankrupt after their careers end...it's because of stuff like this.

 

I think it's incredibly nice that they bought him that truck, but McD needs to handle that firmly and directly, which is what it sounds like he did... now I'm not sure if players give gifts to coaches already and this is just a huge one, but they really shouldn't because that can go down a very very slippery and dangerous slope very quickly.

 

My issue is that you might fully disagree with my point of view, but it honestly is valid, but the source never thought of it that way and applied his own perception on the situation, when McD was likely concerned about stuff like this.

[Arkady Renko]

4 hours ago, mannc said:

Even before he went to KC, Reid won a hell of a lot more than McDermott has.  He reached four straight NFC Championship games.  And he was eventually fired, despite a level of success far exceeding McDermott's, after which Philly finally got "over the hump".  

I believe he got fired after a 4-12 season.  Let’s let this season finish before making a decision. 

[Wayne Arnold]

2 minutes ago, Warcodered said:

The group of guys all got together when they weren't supposed to at the coaches house, with the way the NFL was enforcing the Covid rules back then we could have gotten hosed on that. It wasn't exactly a small gift for a position coach.

 

It's amazing that Chad Hall is still employed. Does Doug Peterson know about this?! Accepting bribes from NFL players. What a menace!

[Beck Water]

4 minutes ago, Arkady Renko said:

I believe he got fired after a 4-12 season.  Let’s let this season finish before making a decision. 

 

Correct.  4-12 following 8-8 got Reid the boot in Philly.

 

1 minute ago, Wayne Arnold said:

It's amazing that Chad Hall is still employed. Does Doug Peterson know about this?! Accepting bribes from NFL players. What a menace!

 

Give it a rest. 

If you can't understand what's been several times explained by two people (that no one thinks the players intended it as a bribe), at least pretend.

Edited December 9, 2023 by Beck Water

[John from Riverside]

12 minutes ago, JohnNord said:

He sure sounds like a GM that supports his coach.  The brain trust here tells me that Beane will recommend firing him 

I have no doubt that Brandon would be saying positive things if they were planning on firing him
 

But I don’t think they are I think that Brandon understands the stupidity of having street winning seasons for five years and then firing a coach after one down year

 

I don’t think the McDermott should be the defensive coordinator. I think it puts too much on his plate.

 

He’s got some on his defensive staff that I think could fill that role some real up-and-coming coaches

[Beck Water]

4 minutes ago, HardyBoy said:

My issue is that you might fully disagree with my point of view, but it honestly is valid, but the source never thought of it that way and applied his own perception on the situation, when McD was likely concerned about stuff like this.

 

That's the sticking point I have with what I've seen of Dunne's article.  He's clearly giving voice to one strong POV/interpretation about the situation - that McDermott was a dick who rained on a sweet, heartwarming gesture because he was, essentially, an insecure jellyfish who is mentally psychologically and physically able to form relationships with players.

 

But there are other POV on the situation, which is that Hall was violating Covid rules by having a gathering, and that to accept a valuable gift from men you're supposed to be impartially grading every week and giving input to the coaches about, has a problematic side.   Others can disagree, but those POV honestly exist.

And those aren't very hard to perceive, really, but Dunne neither presents them as his own considered thoughts, nor apparently spoke with anyone who might present them (or if he did, he edited them out).

 

 

[Mikie2times]

7 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

With this I agree.  But can you acknowledge that there's a lot of space between being a "prick" to your guys, and being so well liked that they gift you a truck?

If this is the argument, I think the distance as far as how much Chad needed to move to center could very well be the same for Sean. The combination of the two likely provided balance. Any way you slice this Chad seemed to be one of our better young coaches and he’s no longer on the team. He was with us since 2017 and left to take a lateral role with the Jaguars. The story and the way it is portrayed seems very likely to be true. At the very least, I would expect a guy with the right temperament to handle this behind closed doors if he had a problem. Not in such a way where this impression could be left behind. 

[GoBills808]

18 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

@GoBills808, what crawled into you tonight?  You're usually quite a reasonable poster with takes I like to read and who can engage in a good discussion where points get acknowledged and debated. 

 

Today, your responses seem like they're firing right left and long of the post you're responding to, and either deliberately not acknowledging or unable to recognize the point.

 

It was said on social media that they were at a Christmas party at Hall's house when they brought him outside to see his truck.

So they were inside, at a party.

 

 

 

I Give Up.  If you started here, it might be worth trying to engage, but since you started with "you think it's a bribe" to @HardyBoy (AFTER he explicitly said he didn't for one moment believe that), and then moved on to "it's only problematic because you guys feel it is" (ignoring any basis we stated)....yeah, I'm Out.  You win. Feel good about that.

You haven't even read the article

[HardyBoy]

Just now, Wayne Arnold said:

 

It's amazing that Chad Hall is still employed. Does Doug Peterson know about this?! Accepting bribes from NFL players. What a menace!

 

Gotta love people gleefully tearing a person down because the sports team he coaches is making you disappointed.

 

I'm just confused by the entertainment people are taking from this, especially after he came out and said that he's really feeling hurt by it.

 

Celebrity gossip culture is gross and between this and people being excited Von Miller was potentially going to get suspended because he's not playing well on the field (I saw all the second reactions after people's initial reaction of saying that behavior is awful, then switching to "ooh, now he won't play because he stinks")

 

Just I'm not sure what happened after being so freaking proud of being a part of this fan base with the donations and the playoff drought ending and even during the drought the vast majority of people being reasonable if not passionate, and then how everyone said they were changed by the Hamlin injury, but just empty words and it's gotten worse.

 

Now people are gleefully sharing gossip with one another to justify absolutely ripping the joy out of someone who it's never justified to do to someone, but by all accounts is a really genuine person who maybe has some quirks in his personality.

 

Seriously, imagine what it must be like for him tonight, knowing all these people have awful things to say about you...he's a human and is trying his best on top of it... it's gross

[Beck Water]

46 minutes ago, QCity said:

Chad Hall is the gatekeeper to Stefon Diggs' future earnings?

 

Obviously Diggs was brought in as a star on a big contract, and has had top-of-the-league performance that makes him desirable to other teams and drives his contract negotiations.

 

But consider this: Hall was grading the WR position group in practice and games, and had input into decisions about whether and to what extent the group needed upgrades in FA and the draft. 

What if Hall's grades of Gabe Davis and Isaiah McKenzie influenced the team's decision to go into the 2022 season with Gabe Davis as the #2 and Isaiah McKenzie as the slot, with no improvements besides Jamison Crowder and a 5th round rookie?
 

What if Hall's grades during in-season practices influenced keeping McKenzie (part of the truck-buying crew) on the field and Shakir (not) on the bench?

 

I'm not saying that the receivers intended the truck as a bribe, or that Hall looked at McKenzie and consciously thought "that guy participated in giving me a truck so Imma grade him better". 

But it's been extensively studied that how people treat us does influence how we perceive them, so there's that.

Edited December 9, 2023 by Beck Water

[Warcodered]

2 minutes ago, Mikie2times said:

If this is the argument, I think the distance as far as how much Chad needed to move to center could very well be the same for Sean. The combination of the two likely provided balance. Any way you slice this Chad seemed to be one of our better young coaches and he’s no longer on the team. He was with us since 2017 and left to take a lateral role with the Jaguars. The story and the way it is portrayed seems very likely to be true. At the very least, I would expect a guy with the right temperament to handle this behind closed doors if he had a problem. Not in such a way where this impression could be left behind. 

I must of missed where McDermott was a co-author of this article.

[HardyBoy]

8 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

That's the sticking point I have with what I've seen of Dunne's article.  He's clearly giving voice to one strong POV/interpretation about the situation - that McDermott was a dick who rained on a sweet, heartwarming gesture because he was, essentially, an insecure jellyfish who is mentally psychologically and physically able to form relationships with players.

 

But there are other POV on the situation, which is that Hall was violating Covid rules by having a gathering, and that to accept a valuable gift from men you're supposed to be impartially grading every week and giving input to the coaches about, has a problematic side.   Others can disagree, but those POV honestly exist.

And those aren't very hard to perceive, really, but Dunne neither presents them as his own considered thoughts, nor apparently spoke with anyone who might present them (or if he did, he edited them out).

 

 

 

This, exactly this.

[Beck Water]

4 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

You haven't even read the article

 

Right.  So I'm talking about a  part of it that was quoted - in fact, you quoted it.  What's your point?  To borrow your attitude here, are you saying you quoted it incorrectly or omitted a key part of the incident?

[Mikie2times]

Just now, Warcodered said:

I must of missed where McDermott was a co-author of this article.

The story on hall seems more likely to be true the 9/11 story. So why is anybody around with a story if it was handled in private?

[BillsSbSoon]

30 minutes ago, JohnNord said:

He sure sounds like a GM that supports his coach.  The brain trust here tells me that Beane will recommend firing him 

Beane and mcd are connected at the hip. If McDermott goes so will beane

[Mikie2times]

Just now, BillsSbSoon said:

Beane and mcd are connected at the hip. If McDermott goes so will beane

I don't think so. I'm sure Beane would feel just fine with complete control. 

[HardyBoy]

Just now, Beck Water said:

 

Right.  So I'm talking about a  part of it that was quoted - in fact, you quoted it.  What's your point?  To borrow your attitude here, are you saying you quoted it incorrectly or omitted a key part of the incident?

 

I haven't read it yet either...my cousin sent me that piece with the truck story as a screenshot and when I read it yesterday, my initial thought was what a jerk...but then I thought about it more and put myself in his shoes and tried to understand if maybe there was a different reason and I realized it was a potential perceived conflict of interest and that the source was probably being completely honest, but was looking at it from their perspective and not McDs.

 

Then I read about and listened to him saying how much it hurt him to read people saying stuff about him like that, and I couldn't stay quiet about it and here I am 

[GoBills808]

So neither of you have read it lol

[beer can shower]

1 hour ago, 1ManRaid said:

 

The Bills winning the amount of games against the teams they did ended the drought.  Why is that one random play the only thing that matters in the entire season?  Why not any of the other game winning TDs from our offense or turnovers from our defense?  Why not any of the other teams that beat the Ravens that season?  They all count the same in the standings.  If any of OUR game winning scores or stops didn't happen we don't make the playoffs.  If any other team that beat the Ravens lost instead of won, we don't make the playoffs.  If one of the teams the Ravens beat instead beat the Ravens, Dalton's heroics aren't even relevant because we're already in the playoffs anyways.

 

Stop with the defeatist nonsense.

Because if Andy Dalton did not complete that hail Mary the Bills would NOT have been in the playoffs that year.

That ended the drought. WITHOUT THAT the BILLS would have been watching the playoffs on TV.   Period.

 

I don't know how much simpler I can explain it so you understand!!

 

Why to you stating the FACTS is defeatist nonsense?

 

 

Edited December 9, 2023 by beer can shower

[ChrisWatson#21]

10 minutes ago, HardyBoy said:

 

Gotta love people gleefully tearing a person down because the sports team he coaches is making you disappointed.

 

I'm just confused by the entertainment people are taking from this, especially after he came out and said that he's really feeling hurt by it.

 

Celebrity gossip culture is gross and between this and people being excited Von Miller was potentially going to get suspended because he's not playing well on the field (I saw all the second reactions after people's initial reaction of saying that behavior is awful, then switching to "ooh, now he won't play because he stinks")

 

Just I'm not sure what happened after being so freaking proud of being a part of this fan base with the donations and the playoff drought ending and even during the drought the vast majority of people being reasonable if not passionate, and then how everyone said they were changed by the Hamlin injury, but just empty words and it's gotten worse.

 

Now people are gleefully sharing gossip with one another to justify absolutely ripping the joy out of someone who it's never justified to do to someone, but by all accounts is a really genuine person who maybe has some quirks in his personality.

 

Seriously, imagine what it must be like for him tonight, knowing all these people have awful things to say about you...he's a human and is trying his best on top of it... it's gross

They can try to tear him down all they want but McDermott is still making more money than 99% of them.  He will be fine bud.

[HardyBoy]

2 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

So neither of you have read it lol

 

I've read parts...I think you're missing the point... the fact that a source had their perspective, but a completely valid and pretty obvious alternative and reasonable explanation was not provided as a counterpoint is problematic...that is the point I am making

[Beck Water]

 

8 hours ago, Nephilim17 said:

Combine that with the rumors that McD and Daboll don't get along and the smoke is getting heavier and heavier. But maybe it's Chad Hall and Brian Daboll and Leslie Frazier that were the problem and our head coach has great communication and interpersonal skills with everyone.

 

Do you think, I don't know, there might be some kind of middle ground here?

 

Like, I don't know, having a handful (or even 25) people with whom one had conflict over the years, doesn't mean the person is completely incapable of relating to and forming relationships with others?

 

 

[HardyBoy]

2 minutes ago, ChrisWatson#21 said:

They can try to tear him down all they want but McDermott is still making more money than 99% of them.  He will be fine bud.

 

I mean Rosebud my guy, Rosebud... 

 

Someone having money doesn't give people the right to warm their hands as they sit around a person's reputation being burnt down and him seeing everything he believed was true about how people think of him being torn up and looking around and having people cheer.

 

It's morally gross

[boyst]

1 hour ago, Simon said:

 

You'd probably like some Corb Lund.

 

 

They have him on a couple Sirius stations I've heard. One of them was the ranger Doug corale and then outlaw country. That's a fun song I have been sent a lot. 

[GoBills808]

Just now, HardyBoy said:

 

I've read parts...I think you're missing the point... the fact that a source had their perspective, but a completely valid and pretty obvious alternative and reasonable explanation was not provided as a counterpoint is problematic...that is the point I am making

'...McDermott told his staff he pays them to be a coach. Not a friend. Other coaches could not believe his cold response.'

 

is the quote wrt to Hall. You thinking it's a completely valid and reasonable explanation that McDermott was in fact worried about the perception of bribery from his million dollar WR room to their position coach is bonkers in context...which you would know if you had read the article.

 

 

[Buffalo03]

On 12/7/2023 at 10:49 AM, Ethan in Cleveland said:

Posters like me have been taking flak from this board for years when we criticized McDermott. 

Our only hope is just like Manning, Allen overcomes his moron HC. Dungy was a terrible coach that lucked into a top 4 QB of all time and still almost managed to never win a SuperBowl.  He should be in the Hall of Shame not the HOF. 

 

Let's hope Pegula looks back and sees what Tampa did to win a SuperBowl after years of Dungy failures.

 

 

Dungy had plenty of success in Tampa and went to an NFC championship game with Shaun King in 99. Shaun freaking King. Manning took him to the extra step of winning the Super Bowl but he had plenty of success prior to going to Indy. You have absolutely no clue what you're talking about. 

[Beck Water]

15 minutes ago, HardyBoy said:

 

I haven't read it yet either...my cousin sent me that piece with the truck story as a screenshot and when I read it yesterday, my initial thought was what a jerk...but then I thought about it more and put myself in his shoes and tried to understand if maybe there was a different reason and I realized it was a potential perceived conflict of interest and that the source was probably being completely honest, but was looking at it from their perspective and not McDs.

 

Then I read about and listened to him saying how much it hurt him to read people saying stuff about him like that, and I couldn't stay quiet about it and here I am 

 

Same

[Simon]

3 minutes ago, boyst said:

They have him on a couple Sirius stations I've heard. One of them was the ranger Doug corale and then outlaw country. That's a fun song I have been sent a lot. 

 

Good to know I'm 23rd in line to do it.

Speaks well of my attention to detail.

 

I didn't know Corb was allowed on the radio outside Alberta.

Figures that booger pickin moron Mojo Nixon would be the one to cut him loose.

[QCity]

11 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

But consider this: Hall was grading the WR position group in practice and games, and had input into decisions about whether and to what extent the group needed upgrades in FA and the draft. 

What if Hall's grades of Gabe Davis and Isaiah McKenzie influenced the team's decision to go into the 2022 season with Gabe Davis as the #2 and Isaiah McKenzie as the slot, with no improvements besides Jamison Crowder and a 5th round rookie?
 

What if Hall's grades during in-season practices influenced keeping McKenzie (part of the truck-buying crew) on the field and Shakir (not) on the bench?

 

 

I think the two of you vastly overestimate the influence that a WR coach has. Every snap that each receiver takes in practice, OTAs, training camp, preseason, etc is filmed and seen by the entire coaching staff and front office. Any of their unseen "talents" that arise in the daily WR meetings aren't going to move the needle.  The sterile bureaucratic environment that you are advocating for certainly has it's place in the corporate world, but that's not identity of any winning football culture that I've ever seen.

[Mikie2times]

8 minutes ago, Buffalo03 said:

Dungy had plenty of success in Tampa and went to an NFC championship game with Shaun King in 99. Shaun freaking King. Manning took him to the extra step of winning the Super Bowl but he had plenty of success prior to going to Indy. You have absolutely no clue what you're talking about. 

It took legendary coach Jim Caldwell his first year to go to a Super Bowl with the same Colts team. His first year he left Tampa they win a Super Bowl.  He has a career 9-10 record in the postseason. Lucked his way into one Super Bowl against one of the weakest Super Bowl opponents in NFL history after a 21-3 comeback in the AFC championship by what I presume wasn't his defense. Dungy is McDermott. Hell, they basically run the same defense, they're the same person. If that is what your vision of success looks like, no thanks. 

Edited December 9, 2023 by Mikie2times

[HardyBoy]

3 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

'...McDermott told his staff he pays them to be a coach. Not a friend. Other coaches could not believe his cold response.'

 

is the quote wrt to Hall. You thinking it's a completely valid and reasonable explanation that McDermott was in fact worried about the perception of bribery from his million dollar WR room to their position coach is bonkers in context...which you would know if you had read the article.

 

 

 

People should not be giving lavish gifts to people that have decision making power over them. Either said or unsaid (this doesn't need to be said though, it should be part of their organizations annual compliance training)

 

McD: either says above or says something like that wasn't appropriate, or again doesn't even say it because he assumes it's obvious to people why you shouldn't accept that gift

 

Hall: I don't know what to tell you, they just really like me I guess

 

McD: but you're not here to be friends with them, you're their coach...

 

Or

 

Hall: I got this truck from my players!

 

McD: when, I didn't see them give it to you here?

 

Hall: at my house last night, we had a party

 

McD: (during covid restrictions) What do you mean?! I am paying you to coach the players, not he friends with them

 

___

 

Neither of those sound unreasonable to me as a reaction

[Beck Water]

7 minutes ago, QCity said:

I think the two of you vastly overestimate the influence that a WR coach has. Every snap that each receiver takes in practice, OTAs, training camp, preseason, etc is filmed and seen by the entire coaching staff and front office. Any of their unseen "talents" that arise in the daily WR meetings aren't going to move the needle.  The sterile bureaucratic environment that you are advocating for certainly has it's place in the corporate world, but that's not identity of any winning football culture that I've ever seen.

 

Could be.  On the other hand, you could be vastly underestimating it.  Every snap of every player is filmed as you say; how much time does an OC have to give to viewing all of them for every player, especially when preparing for the next opponent during the season and during what, 2 weeks of roster evaluation post-season?

 

Not the identity of any winning football culture -  John Harbaugh with his distribution of "Nobody Cares.  Work Harder" t-shirts being such a jolly guy, Bill Belicheck's sarcastic put-down type humor with the stuff from Gronkowski about Patriots players not having much fun (and intimations that Brady was unhappy with his treatment at the end) and all.
 

I'm outta here.  Congratulations @GoBills808 and others, you win!  That should give you that contented, glowing feeling.

 

All I know for sure is that this is a helluva handgrenade distraction to heave into the center of the Bills as they get ready to face the Chiefs.

Edited December 9, 2023 by Beck Water

[Wayne Arnold]

18 minutes ago, HardyBoy said:

 

Gotta love people gleefully tearing a person down because the sports team he coaches is making you disappointed.

 

I'm just confused by the entertainment people are taking from this, especially after he came out and said that he's really feeling hurt by it.

 

Celebrity gossip culture is gross and between this and people being excited Von Miller was potentially going to get suspended because he's not playing well on the field (I saw all the second reactions after people's initial reaction of saying that behavior is awful, then switching to "ooh, now he won't play because he stinks")

 

Just I'm not sure what happened after being so freaking proud of being a part of this fan base with the donations and the playoff drought ending and even during the drought the vast majority of people being reasonable if not passionate, and then how everyone said they were changed by the Hamlin injury, but just empty words and it's gotten worse.

 

Now people are gleefully sharing gossip with one another to justify absolutely ripping the joy out of someone who it's never justified to do to someone, but by all accounts is a really genuine person who maybe has some quirks in his personality.

 

Seriously, imagine what it must be like for him tonight, knowing all these people have awful things to say about you...he's a human and is trying his best on top of it... it's gross

 

"Tearing a person down". 

 

 

As far as the Buffalo Bills fan base goes, I think there are two major portions of it: the portion of the fanbase that wants a Lombardi Trophy before they die, and a portion of the fanbase who don't care so much about winning but are overly emotional and weird when it comes to the head coach and some of the players.

 

All I want is to see this team win a Super Bowl. That's the bottom line. And it's a bottom line business, quite frankly. And Sean McDermott ain't it. It's not happening with him. Period.

 

And if we have an owner who refuses to cut ties with him for whatever reason (as reported very recently), then that Super Bowl portion of the fanbase is going to use whatever there is available and do whatever they have to do to put enough pressure on Pegula to make it happen.

 

No one is "gleefully tearing a person down" or "ripping the joy out of someone" or any of the other dramatic statements you made. I like McDermott the man. Respect him a ton. But he's just not good enough. Flat out. He's not. 

 

The other emo portion of the fanbase can cry their little hearts out about it all they want but they're going to have to pull up their big boy pants and deal. This is the NFL. They should focus more on the Bandits or Canisius if they can't handle it.