I’m sick of the defensive timeouts…

[Max Fischer]

Would you care to provide evidence that McDermott's defensive timeouts hurt the Bills?  Otherwise, it's likely an irrational complaint. 

3 hours ago, Green Lightning said:

In the waning seconds of the game, we had Mayfield for a sack only to find McD called a time out. Instead of a few seconds left, the clock was reset to 16 seconds. He's had several TOs that cost us in the past as well. 

 

This is at best, unproven. There is a much likelier chance that Mayfield and his linemen heard the whistle and stopped the play. Moreover, there is the chance that McDermott saw something that could have resulted in significant Tampa gain. 

Edited October 27, 2023 by Max Fischer

[White Linen]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Nah. I am going on facts you are going on feelings.

 

Just like your BS about Allen were facts?  You think much too highly of yourself. 

[Green Lightning]

35 minutes ago, Max Fischer said:

Would you care to provide evidence that McDermott's defensive timeouts hurt the Bills?  Otherwise, it's likely an irrational complaint. 

 

This is at best, unproven. There is a much likelier chance that Mayfield and his linemen heard the whistle and stopped the play. Moreover, there is the chance that McDermott saw something that could have resulted in significant Tampa gain. 

We'll never know.

[WotAGuy]

Somebody needs to tell Sean you’re supposed to freeze the kicker, not the QB. 

[GunnerBill]

51 minutes ago, White Linen said:

 

Just like your BS about Allen were facts?  You think much too highly of yourself. 

 

No my view on Allen was an opinion. 

 

Let's distinguish opinion and facts folks. It isn't that hard.

[BobbyC81]

11 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

I would love them if they worked. I feel like every time he calls timeout before a play it gives the opposing coach a chance to out-coach him. 

 
The play went on as nobody could hear the whistle and it looked like the Bills were going to sack Baker.

[foreboding]

9 hours ago, FireChans said:

Marv also used to say “go out and have fun partying before the Super Bowl guys!” so maybe let’s not listen to Marv anymore.

Nah. I don't think the old fella said that.

[GunnerBill]

25 minutes ago, BobbyC81 said:

 
The play went on as nobody could hear the whistle and it looked like the Bills were going to sack Baker.

 

I think Baker did slow up. Not immediately. But before the point where a Bill would have got to him.

[FireChans]

2 minutes ago, foreboding said:

Nah. I don't think the old fella said that.

"I told them when we came down here, 'We would not have any curfew Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday night. Have a good time.”

[White Linen]

8 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

No my view on Allen was an opinion. 

 

Let's distinguish opinion and facts folks. It isn't that hard.

 

Let's distinguish your opinions aren't facts, yet you expect everyone to accept them as such.  You've been excellent at draft analysis and have had some fantastic contributions to this forum.   That's gone to your head and you think everything you say is with complete accuracy and can't be challenged.  

[GunnerBill]

16 minutes ago, White Linen said:

 

Let's distinguish your opinions aren't facts, yet you expect everyone to accept them as such.  You've been excellent at draft analysis and have had some fantastic contributions to this forum.   That's gone to your head and you think everything you say is with complete accuracy and can't be challenged.  

 

This is just not true. I am well aware my opinions are not facts. What I am calling out is people who present their opinions as fact without evidence. "McDermott has become too embrolied in the offense" isn't a fact. It is an opinion not supported by anything other than what a poster feels when he watches the games. That is an opinion. I challenged him on that opinion. 

[White Linen]

5 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

This is just not true. I am well aware my opinions are not facts. What I am calling out is people who present their opinions as fact without evidence. "McDermott has become too embrolied in the offense" isn't a fact. It is an opinion not supported by anything other than what a poster feels when he watches the games. That is an opinion. I challenged him on that opinion. 

 

It is true,  that you've had good draft analysis and opinions that have positively contributed.  

 

Yeah no kidding and it's exactly what you do - and for that matter, what we all do.  You think everything you say is a fact and when you're challenged,  guess what you do?

 

You're not the facts czar.  You also don't highlight your opinions with any moniker.  

[Solomon Grundy]

On 10/27/2023 at 7:00 AM, eball said:

This one aspect of McD’s coaching, in particular, is infuriating.  Last night he did it again, multiple times, and all it does is give the offense a chance to regroup and strategize.  Why aren’t the Bills practicing these situations during the week so they know what to do when the moment arrives?

 

Last night McD had a terrible 4th quarter.

 

I'd rather him waste TOs challenging controversial TDs (Kincaid) or field position spots (Murray)🤷

[BillsFooteball]

On 10/27/2023 at 8:08 AM, NewEra said:

Here’s the question:  what’s the downside of doing this?  
 

Regarding the game-  there is no downside.  Zero.  Every time we DON’T do this is a wasted opportunity.  Sure, the chances are slim….but the chances are ZERO if we just line up and punt. Slim chance > zero chance.  This also could help us convert a first in future if/when we do decide to go for it.  Every team has to realize by now that McD has a tendency to try and draw offside more than most teams.  Realizing this could eventually backfire if/when we actually do go for it 
 

as fans, the downside is….it’s 2023 and everyone is impatient.  We have to wait an extra minute or so til we punt.  

100% agree. Very small chance something good comes from it but absolutely no downside. Does everyone forget just last season? Scoreless in first half facing the jets. 4th and 1 from own 39 yard and knox goes under center. The bills were never going to snap the ball and Moseley got fooled and leaps Offside for a first down bills. Bills get a TD on that drive to close the half. Tough fought game where bills get the 20-12 win. You can look back now and say that was one of the (if not the #1) most impactful play of game 

[BillsFan130]

On 10/27/2023 at 8:09 AM, GunnerBill said:

I didn't like the timeout before 4th down. However, most of our fans have zero clue about timeour strategy. He was getting questioned in the GDT for the end of first half timeout which he played perfectly. 

 

I also get that the number say go for the 4th downs. But the only reason this got close was stupidity by individual defensive players - namely Johnson and Phillips. The Bills stopped Tampa twice. 

 

I think we did get a bit conservative in the 4th quarter but it wasn't on 4th down calls it was on playcalling. Dorsey stopped attacking. 

I agree with all you said there.

But do you think it was Dorsey or McDermott who stopped attacking?

 

I personally think Mcd has his fingerprints a lot on this offence. (Having a “balanced” offence, not letting josh run, don’t turn the ball over, get conservative late in games etc)

[BuffalOhio]

On 10/27/2023 at 8:09 AM, GunnerBill said:

I didn't like the timeout before 4th down. However, most of our fans have zero clue about timeour strategy. He was getting questioned in the GDT for the end of first half timeout which he played perfectly. 

 

I also get that the number say go for the 4th downs. But the only reason this got close was stupidity by individual defensive players - namely Johnson and Phillips. The Bills stopped Tampa twice. 

 

I think we did get a bit conservative in the 4th quarter but it wasn't on 4th down calls it was on playcalling. Dorsey stopped attacking. 

Who was it that ordered Dorsey to stop attacking in that instance?

[BillsFan130]

18 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

You have zero evidence that McDermott is too involved in the offense. Or telling Dorsey to be conservative. 

 

You are just making ***** up.

https://billswire.usatoday.com/2023/10/24/ken-dorsey-sean-mcdermott-input-buffalo-bills-offense-nfl/
 

Both McDermott and Dorsey admitted before the game that McDermott has his fingerprints in on the offence.

[BuffaloBillyG]

On 10/27/2023 at 7:08 AM, Buffalo_Stampede said:

I would love them if they worked. I feel like every time he calls timeout before a play it gives the opposing coach a chance to out-coach him. 

This. 

 

I get the idea behind it. And the theory that a team is going to pick the play/formation they feel most comfortable with in a big spot and they can get a peek.

 

My issue is he does it all the time. Teams scout opponents coaching tendency. If teams notice he does that it wouldn't shock me if they pick a dummy play or formation to come out in. Then pick the play they really want the second time while McDermott sets the defense up to expect something else. 

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, White Linen said:

 

It is true,  that you've had good draft analysis and opinions that have positively contributed.  

 

Yeah no kidding and it's exactly what you do - and for that matter, what we all do.  You think everything you say is a fact and when you're challenged,  guess what you do?

 

You're not the facts czar.  You also don't highlight your opinions with any moniker.  

 

What I do when I am challenged is engage in debate. What I don't do is make it personal.

38 minutes ago, BillsFan130 said:

I agree with all you said there.

But do you think it was Dorsey or McDermott who stopped attacking?

 

I personally think Mcd has his fingerprints a lot on this offence. (Having a “balanced” offence, not letting josh run, don’t turn the ball over, get conservative late in games etc)

 

I think it was Dorsey. Who knows if McDermott is on the headset saying "only throw safe short of the sticks" but I just don't think he is that involved in play calling on offense and to be frank whenever you have seen him this season when the offense is out there he is barely watching he is looking over the defense on the tablet. He said himself last week he isn't seeing all the plays on offense because he is working with the D between series. I think that is an issue for what it's worth. But I don't think he is getting involved in offensive playcalling. 

40 minutes ago, BuffalOhio said:

Who was it that ordered Dorsey to stop attacking in that instance?

 

I don't think anyone did. I get it a lot of people want to pin everything on McDermott but I don't see any evidence that supports it. 

31 minutes ago, BillsFan130 said:

https://billswire.usatoday.com/2023/10/24/ken-dorsey-sean-mcdermott-input-buffalo-bills-offense-nfl/
 

Both McDermott and Dorsey admitted before the game that McDermott has his fingerprints in on the offence.

 

I don't think that equates to fingerprints. I have seen their pressers. McDermott in his admits he doesn't even see every offensive play.

[BillsFan130]

39 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

What I do when I am challenged is engage in debate. What I don't do is make it personal.

 

I think it was Dorsey. Who knows if McDermott is on the headset saying "only throw safe short of the sticks" but I just don't think he is that involved in play calling on offense and to be frank whenever you have seen him this season when the offense is out there he is barely watching he is looking over the defense on the tablet. He said himself last week he isn't seeing all the plays on offense because he is working with the D between series. I think that is an issue for what it's worth. But I don't think he is getting involved in offensive playcalling. 

 

I don't think anyone did. I get it a lot of people want to pin everything on McDermott but I don't see any evidence that supports it. 

 

I don't think that equates to fingerprints. I have seen their pressers. McDermott in his admits he doesn't even see every offensive play.

I don’t know if you read the article, but there is literally a quote in there saying:

 

“McDermott and Dorsey have both admitted that the head coach is getting his fingers on the game plan in the offense”

[GunnerBill]

7 minutes ago, BillsFan130 said:

I don’t know if you read the article, but there is literally a quote in there saying:

 

“McDermott and Dorsey have both admitted that the head coach is getting his fingers on the game plan in the offense”

 

Yea. On the gameplan. I don't doubt that at all. But I don't think he is there up 14 in the 4th saying to Dorsey "keep everything safe short of the sticks". 

[D. L. Hot-Flamethrower]

11 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Yea. On the gameplan. I don't doubt that at all. But I don't think he is there up 14 in the 4th saying to Dorsey "keep everything safe short of the sticks". 

No, and I've never heard of a coach doing what you said, they are however giving support to making very safe calls and playing the game much differently than what got them the lead and trying to put the team away. And, what he's especially saying is to punt the ball on 4 and 2 and fourth and 1. It's very obvious they took gas pedal pressure off and were going to coast and play it safe making the other team drive further.

Edited October 28, 2023 by D. L. Hot-Flamethrower

[D. L. Hot-Flamethrower]

8 hours ago, White Linen said:

 

Let's distinguish your opinions aren't facts, yet you expect everyone to accept them as such.  You've been excellent at draft analysis and have had some fantastic contributions to this forum.   That's gone to your head and you think everything you say is with complete accuracy and can't be challenged.  

Great Post! The only part that is questionable is the excellent at draft analysis, yes to contributions to the forum without the pomposity and arrogance.

[Einstein]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

I don't think he is there up 14 in the 4th saying to Dorsey "keep everything safe short of the sticks". 

 

And the tape proves he is not. 

We are still running 10 and 11 personnel with Diggs running posts and fly's in the 4th quarter up 14 points.

The offense never took their foot off the gas until the last drive when we ran 3 times to burn clock.

[White Linen]

7 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

What I do when I am challenged is engage in debate. What I don't do is make it personal.

 

 

Every time any of us responds to an individual poster it's personal.  You insult people and try to make them look bad.  I'm just merely calling you out on it, hoping you'll just get back to posting,  what I would consider quality posts.  Just take the arrogance out.  Obviously up to you to post how you want. 

[BillsFan130]

7 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Yea. On the gameplan. I don't doubt that at all. But I don't think he is there up 14 in the 4th saying to Dorsey "keep everything safe short of the sticks". 

Ok so you agree he’s in on the game plan.

 

The game plan definitely changed the last 25 minutes or so, agreed?

 

So why do you feel like he wasn’t in on that part of the game plan when things were obviously more conservative?

 

If it were up to Dorsey, I’m sure he would want to keep attacking as he’s the OC and he wants to put up as many points as possible 

[GunnerBill]

19 minutes ago, White Linen said:

 

Every time any of us responds to an individual poster it's personal.  You insult people and try to make them look bad.  I'm just merely calling you out on it, hoping you'll just get back to posting,  what I would consider quality posts.  Just take the arrogance out.  Obviously up to you to post how you want. 

 

I don't try and make people look bad. 

1 minute ago, BillsFan130 said:

Ok so you agree he’s in on the game plan.

 

The game plan definitely changed the last 25 minutes or so, agreed?

 

So why do you feel like he wasn’t in on that part of the game plan when things were obviously more conservative?

 

If it were up to Dorsey, I’m sure he would want to keep attacking as he’s the OC and he wants to put up as many points as possible 

 

I think it was just a difference in playcalling. But actually looking at the evidence above from @Einstein there were still plays there to be made beyond the sticks. We just didn't make them. 

[BillsFan130]

2 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I don't try and make people look bad. 

 

I think it was just a difference in playcalling. But actually looking at the evidence above from @Einstein there were still plays there to be made beyond the sticks. We just didn't make them. 

That’s just one play on 3rd down though, it makes sense why they would be trying to get a first down there.

 

It definitely seemed like there was more running/short passes when it was 24-10.

I could be wrong. But Something/someone was conservative. I doubt Josh Allen was haha , as he’s usually the opposite of that.