Israel and the Slaughter in Gaza

[Irv]

5 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

Or she is upset over the siege of Gaza

 You're dopey enough to care what that skank thinks.  Pathetic.    

[sherpa]

2 hours ago, Joe Ferguson forever said:

I

agreed.  for those purposes.  and I pray that the carrier going to Iran will provide those things only.   It's not ridiculous to hypothesize that this could turn into a world war quickly.  And while hamas deserves plenty of blame and condemnation, they're not the ones actually pulling the strings.  

 

I'm hesitant to go down this rabbit hole but......

If a carrier strike force heads to the northern Indian Ocean, it absolutely isn't going there for humanitarian purposes.

It is a war ship and that's what it is designed to do. 

The last time the Iranians decided to take one on, they nearly lost their entire Navy in one day.

Things are different now. They have a bit more capability, but while inland targets would present a formidable challenge, their Navy would be demolished.

 

Further, The US Navy has hospital ships for that purpose, and a carrier with it's airwing embarked has very little additional room for anything else.

International protocols prevent hospital ships from being attacked.

Not so for an obvious combatants.

[cle23]

44 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

Now Omar is ramping it up will calls to defund Israel accusing them of war crimes..  so in short a Hamas sympathizer, a terrorist sympathizer. 
 

 

That's not entirely true.  I in no way support Hamas and their attacks.  They are targeting civilians, and among them many women and children.  That's awful, and the completely wrong way to go about trying to fight for their freedom.

 

My issue is that both sides of this are committing war crimes, but here in the US, we only call out Palestinians for it.  Israel has been murdering civilians for decades, imprisoning people indefinitely, and lobbing bombs across the border and killing whoever may be in the area.  Both sides are awful here, and have been for years.

[Joe Ferguson forever]

5 minutes ago, sherpa said:

 

I'm hesitant to go down this rabbit hole but......

If a carrier strike force heads to the northern Indian Ocean, it absolutely isn't going there for humanitarian purposes.

It is a war ship and that's what it is designed to do. 

The last time the Iranians decided to take one on, they nearly lost their entire Navy in one day.

Things are different now. They have a bit more capability, but while inland targets would present a formidable challenge, their Navy would be demolished.

 

Further, The US Navy has hospital ships for that purpose, and a carrier with it's airwing embarked has very little additional room for anything else.

International protocols prevent hospital ships from being attacked.

Not so for an obvious combatants.

so it looks like we might be attacking Iran?

Edited October 10, 2023 by Joe Ferguson forever

[Tiberius]

7 minutes ago, Irv said:

 You're dopey enough to care what that skank thinks.  Pathetic.    

That's really insensitive of you.  🙆‍♀️

5 minutes ago, Joe Ferguson forever said:

so it looks like we might be attacking Iran?

Why would we do that? 

[muppy]

it is rare I chime into PPP unless it is to tease my buddy @leh-nerd skin-erd but I'm here today to demonstrate my utter sadness for the senseless brutal Evil deeds going on in the world today

 

I'm not sure this event wasn't a powder keg that was just going to blow up. Not a question of IF but When.  Some things change and some stay the same. The pure hatred on display here is for me hell on earth but has been going on almost forever.

 

I think the Messiah Jesus Christ is the only way out of this mess. For me this is a deity sized problem with only such as that able to fix

 

May Lord have mercy over that region. the savagery I don't want to see RT what is in my mind from these accounts is horrific enough

 

Lord have Mercy 😞

[Joe Ferguson forever]

2 minutes ago, muppy said:

it is rare I chime into PPP unless it is to tease my buddy @leh-nerd skin-erd but I'm here today to demonstrate my utter sadness for the senseless brutal Evil deeds going on in the world today

 

I'm not sure this event wasn't a powder keg that was just going to blow up. Not a question of IF but When.  Some things change and some stay the same. The pure hatred on display here is for me hell on earth but has been going on almost forever.

 

I think the Messiah Jesus Christ is the only way out of this mess. For me this is a deity sized problem with only such as that able to fix

 

May Lord have mercy over that region. the savagery I don't want to see RT what is in my mind from these accounts is horrific enough

 

Lord have Mercy 😞

yeah, i could be wrong about Revelation...really.  It's playing out pretty eerily.  Need to reread the symbolism it it.  But praying is worthwhile.

[sherpa]

7 minutes ago, Joe Ferguson forever said:

so it looks like we might be attacking Iran?

 

No.

The situation is this:

The US Air Force has bases in Incirlik Turkey, which is being bolstered this week,  and more than one in Saudi Arabia.

I have no idea if the Saudis would endorse operations against Iran from their soil.

 

Having USS Ford in the eastern Med as reported would cover southern Lebanon, which is Hezbollah and if this spread, Syria.

Be aware that Hezbollah has real missiles, and lots of them. Not the unguided trash that Hamas launches from Gaza.

That eastern Med position is too far to reasonably strike Iran, as you'd have to tank in unfriendly airspace on the way in and out.

 

The US Navy currently has no carrier task force in the Indian Ocean. 

That's why I suggested watching USS Reagan which in its' home port of Yokosuka, Japan.

If they alter her schedule and send her to the Indian Ocean, that would be a clear indication of being on station if some anti Iran scenario unfolded.

The problem is that doing that would take her away from the South China Sea, and significantly impact any defense of Taiwan.

 

The other option, which would take a long time, would be to deploy another Pacific Fleet carrier to the South China Sea, so you would have one in the IO and one there.

 

Either way, neither would be humanitarian.

Carriers don't do that.  

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

5 minutes ago, muppy said:

it is rare I chime into PPP unless it is to tease my buddy @leh-nerd skin-erd but I'm here today to demonstrate my utter sadness for the senseless brutal Evil deeds going on in the world today

 

I'm not sure this event wasn't a powder keg that was just going to blow up. Not a question of IF but When.  Some things change and some stay the same. The pure hatred on display here is for me hell on earth but has been going on almost forever.

 

I think the Messiah Jesus Christ is the only way out of this mess. For me this is a deity sized problem with only such as that able to fix

 

May Lord have mercy over that region. the savagery I don't want to see RT what is in my mind from these accounts is horrific enough

 

Lord have Mercy 😞

Hey Mup,  

 

When we discuss the ongoing political commentary in this country, I'm usually comforted thinking that most of us go through each day not being set upon by someone with a different system of beliefs, and typically don't get into anything even approaching heated debate of religion, politics or anything else with a stranger.  

 

Then, you see something like this occur and I'm reminded of the absolute brutality of people and just hot bad things can get.  I've said it before, I'll repeat it here--I get along with people, almost always.  I enjoy learning about the life experiences of others, almost always.  An old business associate was in not all the long ago and was telling me about a recent trip to Egypt, his time growing up in Sudan, and the horrific crimes being perpetrated there as we speak.  

 

I don't know the solution, but I'll say that when people are absolutely committed to your absolute destruction and the removal of you/your people from the planet, just about anything can be justified and rationalized. 

 

I'm not the most religious fellow these days, but spiritually speaking, I am 100% with you and Lord have mercy on the innocent people caught up in all this.  As for the savages perpetrating crimes against humanity, vaporization is fine with me.

[Joe Ferguson forever]

8 minutes ago, sherpa said:

 

No.

The situation is this:

The US Air Force has bases in Incirlik Turkey, which is being bolstered this week,  and more than one in Saudi Arabia.

I have no idea if the Saudis would endorse operations against Iran from their soil.

 

Having USS Ford in the eastern Med as reported would cover southern Lebanon, which is Hezbollah and if this spread, Syria.

Be aware that Hezbollah has real missiles, and lots of them. Not the unguided trash that Hamas launches from Gaza.

That eastern Med position is too far to reasonably strike Iran, as you'd have to tank in unfriendly airspace on the way in and out.

 

The US Navy currently has no carrier task force in the Indian Ocean. 

That's why I suggested watching USS Reagan which in its' home port of Yokosuka, Japan.

If they alter her schedule and send her to the Indian Ocean, that would be a clear indication of being on station if some anti Iran scenario unfolded.

The problem is that doing that would take her away from the South China Sea, and significantly impact any defense of Taiwan.

 

The other option, which would take a long time, would be to deploy another Pacific Fleet carrier to the South China Sea, so you would have one in the IO and one there.

 

Either way, neither would be humanitarian.

Carriers don't do that.  

thank you.  info we are not hearing from network military experts...you think they are just not saying?

 

Taiwan is interesting in this.  Could it be that China is in on this plan as well?

Edited October 10, 2023 by Joe Ferguson forever

[Tiberius]

Air craft carriers are involved in humanitarian missions 

[SCBills]

This is what someone who hates Jews posts.  Not someone supporting Palestinians. 
 

 

[B-Man]

 

Fat chance.

 

 

 

 

.

[Tiberius]

5 minutes ago, SCBills said:

This is what someone who hates Jews posts.  Not someone supporting Palestinians. 
 

 

Hamas did the attack, not Palestine

[SCBills]

Just now, Tiberius said:

Hamas did the attack, not Palestine

How did Hamas attack the festival?

 

….or are Palestinians just known for their love of recreational paragliding?

[Tiberius]

2 minutes ago, B-Man said:

 

Fat chance.

 

 

 

 

.

Yup, and schools, public buildings and play grounds. 

 

So outraged, but when Russia blows up schools, hospitals and public buildings you call for cutting aid to Ukraine 

Just now, SCBills said:

How did Hamas attack the festival?

 

….or are Palestinians just known for their love of recreational paragliding?

So you want to blame the people of Palestine collectively. All of them, sort of how Hamas blames all Jews for stealing their land 

[Tiberius]

1 minute ago, B-Man said:

 

 

 

 

.

Same can be said of the Jewish state 

[sherpa]

22 minutes ago, Joe Ferguson forever said:

thank you.  info we are not hearing from network military experts...you think they are just not saying?

 

Taiwan is interesting in this.  Could it be that China is in on this plan as well?

 

No. I think it has not progressed to where stuff like this gets discussed.

I assure you that if Reagan sails for the IO, or anything spreads to where Syria or Iran get "kinetic," you'll see it discussed. 

[SCBills]

6 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

Yup, and schools, public buildings and play grounds. 

 

So outraged, but when Russia blows up schools, hospitals and public buildings you call for cutting aid to Ukraine 

So you want to blame the people of Palestine collectively. All of them, sort of how Hamas blames all Jews for stealing their land 

Nope.  I’m just pointing out that what BLMChicago posted is not support of Palestinians… it’s hatred of Jews. 
 

Honestly, I’m not sure what is so difficult for you to understand about that tweet.  
 

It’s basically someone posting “I stand with Afghanistan” with a picture of two planes hitting the towers. 

[yall]

32 minutes ago, sherpa said:

 

No.

The situation is this:

The US Air Force has bases in Incirlik Turkey, which is being bolstered this week,  and more than one in Saudi Arabia.

I have no idea if the Saudis would endorse operations against Iran from their soil.

 

Having USS Ford in the eastern Med as reported would cover southern Lebanon, which is Hezbollah and if this spread, Syria.

Be aware that Hezbollah has real missiles, and lots of them. Not the unguided trash that Hamas launches from Gaza.

That eastern Med position is too far to reasonably strike Iran, as you'd have to tank in unfriendly airspace on the way in and out.

 

The US Navy currently has no carrier task force in the Indian Ocean. 

That's why I suggested watching USS Reagan which in its' home port of Yokosuka, Japan.

If they alter her schedule and send her to the Indian Ocean, that would be a clear indication of being on station if some anti Iran scenario unfolded.

The problem is that doing that would take her away from the South China Sea, and significantly impact any defense of Taiwan.

 

The other option, which would take a long time, would be to deploy another Pacific Fleet carrier to the South China Sea, so you would have one in the IO and one there.

 

Either way, neither would be humanitarian.

Carriers don't do that.  

Currently the hot tale is that Hamas intends to depleted the iron dome at which point Hezbollah will start with their arsenal.

 

Depending on how that plays out, that could be the point at which we become involved and assist with taking out sites in Lebanon.

[sherpa]

19 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

Air craft carriers are involved in humanitarian missions 

 

Of course they can be. Something like a western hemisphere earthquake or similar.

They are not going to get involved in humanitarian missions with the airwing embarked, and certainly not in any hostile environment.

It simply makes no sense.

[Dukestreetking]

7 hours ago, sherpa said:

They don't share intel beyond a very basic level, as they think the US is incapable of controlling leaks.

 

Good overall post.

 

Not trying to be a d-bag, but perhaps the above is... well, not quite correct.

 

That said, there is an "interesting" dynamic between ISR IC and their counterparts in other countries (as I suspect you are aware).

 

[sherpa]

1 minute ago, yall said:

Currently the hot tale is that Hamas intends to depleted the iron dome at which point Hezbollah will start with their arsenal.

 

Depending on how that plays out, that could be the point at which we become involved and assist with taking out sites in Lebanon.

 

That is certainly concerning and a real possibility.

If so, it points to a far more detailed and coordinated scheme. 

[Tiberius]

Fleeing Israel? This will accomplish Hama's task of destroying Israel. 

 

Terrified Jewish Americans who fled Israel amid full-scale war with Hamas have landed in the US on last-minute flights out of the Middle East nation.

Ben-Gurion Airport, Israel's main international gateway, was packed out by desperate travelers trying to escape on Monday - as the Palestinian militant group launched a rocket strike close to one of the terminals.

More than 700 Israelis have been killed since Hamas began a colossal attack over the weekend, per the Israel Defence Forces, while a further 1,200 people have been wounded, many critically.

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12610609/Jewish-flights-Israel-Hamas-Tel-Aviv-Ben-Gurion-Airport.html

[Joe Ferguson forever]

1 minute ago, sherpa said:

 

That is certainly concerning and a real possibility.

If so, it points to a far more detailed and coordinated scheme. 

I think it's fair to conclude that they've thought ahead here, sadly.

[Tiberius]

4 minutes ago, SCBills said:

Nope.  I’m just pointing out that what BLMChicago posted is not support of Palestinians… it’s hatred of Jews. 
 

Honestly, I’m not sure what is so difficult for you to understand about that tweet.  
 

It’s basically someone posting “I stand with Afghanistan” with a picture of two planes hitting the towers. 

Doesn't say anything about Jews. The Palestians have it pretty bad

[sherpa]

1 minute ago, Dukestreetking said:

 

Good overall post.

 

Not trying to be a d-bag, but perhaps the above is... well, not quite correct.

 

That said, there is an "interesting" dynamic between ISR IC and their counterparts in other countries (as I suspect you are aware).

 

 

I think it is quite correct.

There are all kinds of shared information and coordination on many thigs, but the Israelis, when they are going to do something that is really risky to their forces do not share, unless there is a specific reason to do so.

[Joe Ferguson forever]

9 minutes ago, Dukestreetking said:

 

Good overall post.

 

Not trying to be a d-bag, but perhaps the above is... well, not quite correct.

 

That said, there is an "interesting" dynamic between ISR IC and their counterparts in other countries (as I suspect you are aware).

 

please interpret without jargon and ambiguity.  IC is intelligence community.  ISR is what's discussed here:  https://www.airuniversity.af.edu/ISR/.  what is meant by the rest?  connect the dots....

Edited October 10, 2023 by Joe Ferguson forever

[Pabstblueribbon]

1 hour ago, Kemp said:

 

Wondering if it's naive to see the connection between Trump giving the Russians info on Israel's security, and it going from Russia to their ally, Iran.

 

Robert Malley.

[Tiberius]

 

 

“The Netanyahu government is moving forward with its aggression and open war against the Palestinian people,” said Wassel Abu Yousef, a Palestinian official in the West Bank. “We affirm that all settler colonialism in all the occupied Palestinian territories is illegitimate and illegal.”

Peace Now, an anti-settlement watchdog group, said Israel has now approved over 13,000 settlement housing units this year. That is nearly three times the number of homes approved in all of 2022 and marks the most approvals in any year since it began systematically tracking the planning procedures in 2012.

Israel’s government, which took office in late December, is dominated by religious and ultranationalist politicians with close ties to the settlement movement. Finance Minister Bezalel Smotrich, a firebrand settler leader, has been granted Cabinet-level authority over settlement policies and has vowed to double the settler population in the West Bank.

https://apnews.com/article/israel-palestinians-settlements-west-bank-biden-49c4788ffc5f5ee41d5c48365ac5395b

[gobills404]

2 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

Doesn't say anything about Jews. The Palestians have it pretty bad

By saying “that is all” they are very obviously implying “We don’t condemn the terrorist attacks”. They knew exactly what they were doing with that post, and so do you. Don’t play dumb.

[Tiberius]

1 minute ago, gobills404 said:

By saying “that is all” they are very obviously implying “We don’t condemn the terrorist attacks”. They knew exactly what they were doing with that post, and so do you. Don’t play dumb.

They didn't say anything about the expanding Israeli settlements either, so...

[Joe Ferguson forever]

6 minutes ago, Pabstblueribbon said:

 

Robert Malley.

interesting.  very interesting.  but he was a mid level diplomat and trump was prez.  what about giving Israeli secrets to the Russians does not concern you?

[AlBUNDY4TDS]

19 minutes ago, SCBills said:

Nope.  I’m just pointing out that what BLMChicago posted is not support of Palestinians… it’s hatred of Jews. 
 

Honestly, I’m not sure what is so difficult for you to understand about that tweet.  
 

It’s basically someone posting “I stand with Afghanistan” with a picture of two planes hitting the towers. 

Don't bother he knows what he does

[Tiberius]

I would guess that this attack will be followed by even more settlements 

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/29/world/middleeast/israel-west-bank-settlements-expansion.htmlAfter an attack outside the West Bank settlement of Eli on June 20, in which two Palestinian gunmen killed four Israelis, Mr. Netanyahu announced plans to build an additional 1,000 settler homes there. His government also pressed ahead this week with plans for 4,700 more homes throughout the West Bank — part of a promised total of 10,000 settler housing units that it had already pledged to build earlier this year.

Attacks by Palestinians against Israelis living in the settlements and elsewhere have surged this year, as has violence by settlers against Palestinians.

[sherpa]

12 minutes ago, Joe Ferguson forever said:

I think it's fair to conclude that they've thought ahead here, sadly.

 

That could very well be true.

Iran and Hezbollah, (who is Iran), if they are on concert with this scheme are probably watching the Israeli response, which is dramatic and probably not to their liking.

If they concluded it was worth expanding into additional actions from Lebanon, the Israeli Air Force response would be massive, and it would include support, though not necessarily offensive missions, from the Ford task force. That capability is significant.

[Joe Ferguson forever]

1 minute ago, sherpa said:

 

That could very well be true.

Iran and Hezbollah, (who is Iran), if they are on concert with this scheme are probably watching the Israeli response, which is dramatic and probably not to their liking.

If they concluded it was worth expanding into additional actions from Lebanon, the Israeli Air Force response would be massive, and it would include support, though not necessarily offensive missions, from the Ford task force. That capability is significant.

but not til after those "real" missiles are sent from Lebanon.

[Tommy Callahan]

3 minutes ago, Joe Ferguson forever said:

but not til after those "real" missiles are sent from Lebanon.

lets hope none of the players in that region have hyper sonics.

 

 

[All_Pro_Bills]

6 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

They didn't say anything about the expanding Israeli settlements either, so...

There is truth here.  The Ultra-Orthodox wing of the Israeli government has been pushing more and more West Bank settlements commandeering land previously occupied by Palestinians for many generations.  Where those people go nobody seems too concerned.  And the Gaza Strip is a slightly more accommodating modern-day version of the WW2 Warsaw Ghetto. 

 

That isn't justification for the atrocities committed but it does provide some context to the relationship which is we tell you what to do and you do it or else.  

[Joe Ferguson forever]

just saw this lady on CNN.  she seems well informed and very bright.  the interview isn't available yet, but she makes the point that Palestine could have become the UAE but decided to become beirut.  I think that's an oversimplification but I think her comments might be meaningful and deeper than most.  5 mins in on this gets interesting