Oh and How About Bernard

[PBF81]

4 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

Okay.  We will disagree.

 

I will be in favor of the opinion on people who know how to look at film.  

 

That's fine, I'll favor the facts in the breakdown between rushing and passing D.    

 

We all make our choices.  I do have a hunch however that your opinion will be changing significantly as the season goes along.  

 

BTW, who are those people and where's their work, besides "they said so"?   From what I've seen on Youtube, none contradict what I've laid out.  

 

 

Edited September 13, 2023 by PBF81

[ngbills]

So professionals that say Bernard played well have good qualified opinions. 
 

But the professionals that said Edmunds was a top MLB are clueless. 
 

Got it. 

[Royale with Cheese]

Just now, PBF81 said:

 

That's fine, I'll favor the facts in the breakdown between rushing and passing D.    

 

We all make our choices.  I do have a hunch however that your opinion will be changing significantly as the season goes along.  

 

 

 

You don't know how to evaluate and passing it off as facts....got it.

Just out of curiosity, where did you learn to break down film in the trenches?

 

[PBF81]

Just now, Royale with Cheese said:

 

You don't know how to evaluate and passing it off as facts....got it.

Just out of curiosity, where did you learn to break down film in the trenches?

 

 

How do you know what my background is?  

 

Otherwise, as I added in edit, what are these expert sources that you've cited, what, Youtubers?  LOL  

 

Again, from what I've seen absolutely none contradict what I've laid out.   In fact, they focus on his role in pass defense/coverage.  Which again, I have no argument with.  

 

So show me all of these expert sources, I'll see what their background is, and we can go from there.  

 

See, the difference between you and I in this exchange, is that I've provided info from several sources.  All you've provided is that you've watched so-called "experts" without having pointed out to me their videos, articles featuring details, etc.  Maybe you have to someone else, but not to me you haven't.  

 

So feel free to post them.  Maybe I'll agree with you after I view them.  

 

 

[Fallser]

On 9/12/2023 at 12:20 AM, Royale with Cheese said:

He lead our team in tackles with 11.

 MLB leading a football team in tackles...in other late breaking news, water is wet. 

[John from Riverside]

After watching the all 22s that I’ve been circling around the Internet doesn’t look like he played that badly

 

Would still like to see a Kirksey up here

[PBF81]

On 9/12/2023 at 12:16 AM, Thrivefourfive said:

Jesus, he’s a nice junior college middle killer. But having offensive lineman continuing to find him 5 yards down field and clamp him up was disgusting to watch. TB is really REALY out of his element. I’m not even sure if he’s explosive enough to be a special teamer (he can surely play punt team). 
 

Another negative takeaway from this ass game. 

 

He's good in pass-coverage.  He's simply not well suited to being a LB on running plays.  

 

The fact that Beane picked him as a MLB is on Beane, it really shouldn't be on Bernard.  Poor dude's out of position in the NFL.  

 

Bernard was a 3rd-5th round prospect on every board of the 10+ that I saw.  

 

Here's his NFL.com Draft Profile, which IMO is pretty much what we saw on Monday and in preseason.  

 

Draft Projection:  5th Round

Project Grade:  5.94 - Average Backup or Special Teamer 

 

Overview

 

Undersized sub-package nickel linebacker with special-teams value on the next level. Bernard possesses elite intangibles and teams will be drawn to him because of it. He's resilient, productive and showed a willingness to play through pain. However, Bernard lacks the desired frame and play strength and will face scrutiny surrounding his injury history. He needs space to operate and has the speed for man-cover duties as a pro. If the medicals check out, he should be a Day 3 pick with sub-package value.

 

Strengths

 

- Scouts rave about his leadership and character.

- Never-quit attitude despite adversity.

- Film junkie who rang up 100-plus tackles in 2019 and 2021.

- Rapid read and response against play-action.

- On a continuous quest to go get the football.

- Loose and fluid in pursuit and change of direction.

- Bends and flattens off the corner as a blitzer.

- Speed to cover man targets underneath.

 

Weaknesses

 

- Slender frame might be maxed out.

- Gets caught up too easily in the clutter.

- Engulfed by size if he's not proactive.

- Struggles to fit and hold a gap.

- Knocked off-balance by redirect blocks.

- Loses pursuit leverage, allowing back to cross his face.

- Angles to runner leave little margin for error as tackler.

- Average coverage recognition.

 

 

 

[Royale with Cheese]

2 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

How do you know what my background is?  

 

Otherwise, as I added in edit, what are these expert sources that you've cited, what, Youtubers?  LOL  

 

Again, from what I've seen absolutely none contradict what I've laid out.   In fact, they focus on his role in pass defense/coverage.  Which again, I have no argument with.  

 

So show me all of these expert sources, I'll see what their background is, and we can go from there.  

 

See, the difference between you and I in this exchange, is that I've provided info from several sources.  All you've provided is that you've watched so-called "experts" without having pointed out to me their videos, articles featuring details, etc.  Maybe you have to someone else, but not to me you haven't.  

 

So feel free to post them.  Maybe I'll agree with you after I view them.  

 

 

 

Why didn't you answer the question?  Where did you learn to break down film in the trenches?

 

I didn't say experts.  You don't need to be an expert to understand at the basic X's and O's level.  If you played offensive line at HS level, you understand how to break down film as an offensive lineman.  Some people do it as a hobby because they study it.  This isn't some sort of rare ability.  I played WR so I've never had to break down film inside the trenches. 

 

So since I don't know, I don't pretend I know.  So I rely on guys I trust know what they're looking at.  Videos are posted in this thread and posters who understand the game are commenting on it.

That's where you and I differ.  You hold onto a thought and that's it.  You don't learn anything being so stubborn.

 

So yes

 

[PBF81]

20 minutes ago, Fallser said:

 MLB leading a football team in tackles...in other late breaking news, water is wet. 

 

Thank you!  There's someone that knows his football.  LBs and Ss consistently lead in tackle rankings, for what should be obvious reasons.  

 

 

[Royale with Cheese]

20 minutes ago, Fallser said:

 MLB leading a football team in tackles...in other late breaking news, water is wet. 

 

So he did and acceptable job.  And water isn't wet.  Wet is what happens when water touches an object.  

 

[PBF81]

1 minute ago, Royale with Cheese said:

I didn't say experts.  You don't need to be an expert to understand at the basic X's and O's level.  If you played offensive line at HS level, you understand how to break down film as an offensive lineman.  Some people do it as a hobby because they study it.  This isn't some sort of rare ability.  I played WR so I've never had to break down film inside the trenches. 

 

So since I don't know, I don't pretend I know.  So I rely on guys I trust know what they're looking at.  Videos are posted in this thread and posters who understand the game are commenting on it.

That's where you and I differ.  You hold onto a thought and that's it.  You don't learn anything being so stubborn.

 

So yes

 

 

Hedging I see.  As expected. 

 

I asked you for what you looked at and read to come to that conclusion.  I gave you some of my reference points. 

 

I'm doing my best to see things the way that you see them, but I cannot do that without seeing what you looked at.  It seems that either you don't want to provide that, or that you really don't have much to back it up and simply want to argue with me.  Either way, I've done my best to see things you way.  Without your assistance in providing what you've seen and read, I cannot help anymore. 

 

We're finished here.  

 

Again however, I do firmly believe that you will be altering your opinion as the season goes on.  I'm not one that gives a crap about "being right," otherwise I'd bookmark these posts.  But remember your take now and then consider why you believed whatever you believed when the time comes.  If it doesn't and TB develops into a world-class run defender, then please, by all means, feel perfectly free to throw it back in my face.  I will happily accept it at that time should that come to pass.  About all I can do now.   

 

 

[Straight Hucklebuck]

On 9/12/2023 at 12:16 AM, Thrivefourfive said:

Jesus, he’s a nice junior college middle killer. But having offensive lineman continuing to find him 5 yards down field and clamp him up was disgusting to watch. TB is really REALY out of his element. I’m not even sure if he’s explosive enough to be a special teamer (he can surely play punt team). 
 

Another negative takeaway from this ass game. 

100% agree. 

 

It's a joke that veteran defensive Coach like McDermott is really trying to sell him as a viable starting NFL MLB. 

 

Despite what Joe Marino said about him, watch the large running plays or play calls that ask Bernard to attack the LOS as a blitzer. He is engulfed. Conklin took him one on one and rode him out of plays completely. 

 

Maybe the name of the game now is passing and he is a better coverage linebacker, but his athleticism is overstated. 

 

Edited September 13, 2023 by Straight Hucklebuck

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

Never liked the guy...🤨

[DeltaDigital]

"BuT He"S ThUh LeAdInG TAcKluR On ThA TEaM" Same excuse for Edmunds everyone made to keep him. Production is IDENTICAL. Same amount of game changing plays, Same weakness, he's just smaller. 

[FireChans]

1 hour ago, ngbills said:

So professionals that say Bernard played well have good qualified opinions. 
 

But the professionals that said Edmunds was a top MLB are clueless. 
 

Got it. 

My eyes tell me that the next RB angle route taken the house will be the first for Bernard. We cannot say the same for Edmundo 

[Ethan in Cleveland]

1 hour ago, Chandler#81 said:

Becoming very worried is a personal decision. I don’t share yours.

Fair enough.  But most people on here think he will be replaced by a PS guy in a matter of a few weeks. Will be interesting to see how it plays out. 

[nedboy7]

He played much better than anticipated.  Film on him looks good. 

[NastyNateSoldiers]

On 9/12/2023 at 7:16 AM, Thrivefourfive said:

Jesus, he’s a nice junior college middle killer. But having offensive lineman continuing to find him 5 yards down field and clamp him up was disgusting to watch. TB is really REALY out of his element. I’m not even sure if he’s explosive enough to be a special teamer (he can surely play punt team). 
 

Another negative takeaway from this ass game. 

U sure your not talking about Keith Ellison? 😂 

[ngbills]

7 minutes ago, FireChans said:

My eyes tell me that the next RB angle route taken the house will be the first for Bernard. We cannot say the same for Edmundo 

Edmunds is a free agent - gets 4/$72M

Care to wager what Bernard would get? More like 4/$7.2M.

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

On 9/12/2023 at 12:19 AM, NewEra said:

He played better than I thought he would.  
 

 

Idk how people can be upset with allowing 16 points to someone. Even if it was Zack Wilson, they still have some great skill position players and 16 points is very respectable in the modern NFL. If the offense can’t generate more than that to win the game then it is on them. Bernard wasn’t a liability on the field and that’s all you can ask for. 

[NewEra]

2 minutes ago, ChronicAndKnuckles said:

Idk how people can be upset with allowing 16 points to someone. Even if it was Zack Wilson, they still have some great skill position players and 16 points is very respectable in the modern NFL. If the offense can’t generate more than that to win the game then it is on them. Bernard wasn’t a liability on the field and that’s all you can ask for. 

He wasn’t a liability for the most part.  As it turns out, his inability to align the defense on Halls TD run made him a liability for that moment.  Minus that play, we likely win that game despite 17 doing his best to give the game away

 

overall, he was better than I had anticipated.  Would be nice if he can build on this and continue to improve.  The raiders are going to try and punch him in the mouth

Edited September 13, 2023 by NewEra

[34-78-83]

55 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

Why didn't you answer the question?  Where did you learn to break down film in the trenches?

 

I didn't say experts.  You don't need to be an expert to understand at the basic X's and O's level.  If you played offensive line at HS level, you understand how to break down film as an offensive lineman.  Some people do it as a hobby because they study it.  This isn't some sort of rare ability.  I played WR so I've never had to break down film inside the trenches. 

 

So since I don't know, I don't pretend I know.  So I rely on guys I trust know what they're looking at.  Videos are posted in this thread and posters who understand the game are commenting on it.

That's where you and I differ.  You hold onto a thought and that's it.  You don't learn anything being so stubborn.

 

So yes

 

This ^ plus folks like Erik (for example) from Cover 1... HE IS an expert, in spite of being a "You tuber" (he's on other platforms too). He played ball and was a an actual coach at one point too. Multiple Bills players have also validated his film reviews in person.

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

1 minute ago, NewEra said:

He wasn’t a liability for the most part.  As it turns out, his inability to align the defense on Halls TD run made him a liability for that moment.  Minus that play, we likely win that game despite 17 doing his best to give the game away

At least he wasn’t be taken out physically which is a good sign since he is a small MLB to begin with. Those types of things will be solved with experience. 

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, ngbills said:

They are not gonna say yeah he sucked. If he remains out mlb you can expect multiple 50 yard runs per game as we saw. He will either shoot the wrong gap to avoid getting pancakes or get pancake and off to the races. Unless we bring up safety help for him and then our pass coverage will suffer. 

 

He didn't shoot the wrong gap. He failed to get us in the right alignment. I am confident that is just time on task and fixable. 

[Brand J]

We’ll learn more about Bernard as the season progresses, but for game 1 he was fine. I liked his blitz in the first half where he got tripped up/tackled by the RB. Looked like an agile DB flying in there. Couldn’t have asked for more when you consider it was his first start and he missed all of the preseason. Hopefully Bernard holds up over the course of the season, but linebackers are smaller nowadays. He’s bigger than the Jets Quincy Williams.

[Thrivefourfive]

Big INT for Bernard against Thaa Raiders!!! Having said that, on the play in question, he liked like one of those frozen over ice lake swimmers who run and jump in a hole in the sheet. If the hall didn’t miraculously land in his lap, what was he even doing on that play…?? Plugging an already plugged gap?

[Rigotz]

Can we kill this thread?

 

There’s a better thread that actually talks about his play and gives him praise, which he deserves after the first two weeks.

 

 

[strive_for_five_guy]

On 9/12/2023 at 12:16 AM, Thrivefourfive said:

Jesus, he’s a nice junior college middle killer. But having offensive lineman continuing to find him 5 yards down field and clamp him up was disgusting to watch. TB is really REALY out of his element. I’m not even sure if he’s explosive enough to be a special teamer (he can surely play punt team). 
 

Another negative takeaway from this ass game. 

Should def go back to junior college 😝

[mrags]

I’ll admit I was absolutely incorrect about Bernard. I will say I was onto something about him being to small to man the middle as far as run support. We have taken some big plays up the middle. But he has been absolutely incredible in coverage. What a difference he makes compared to Edmunds who was like the anti Bernard 

Edited November 26, 2023 by mrags

[Thrivefourfive]

20 minutes ago, strive_for_five_guy said:

Should def go back to junior college 😝

I’m dead wrong. What I see is what I describe. I live and die play by play!