DaQuan Jones: Best Beane free agent signing in years

[BADOLBILZ]

5 hours ago, Logic said:

I think that being better against the run necessarily leads to giving up more passing yards

 

That's box score scouting.

 

The 2022 Bills haven't been such a middling pass defense because they defend the run very well.

 

They are middling because they are giving up big plays on obvious passing downs..................and often having their once dynamic zone defense exploited even if opposing QB's are getting pounded by the front.    

 

You had the opposite take when you were hard apologizing for Star Lotulelei............."the Bills are 19th against the run because they are so good against the pass".

 

The reality is that the Bills have been a base nickel defense all along.

 

As I told you then.........it's about execution.

 

The Bills run D was only middling because their front 7 wasn't executing.     The Polynesian Pylon was a big part of that underachievement.

 

They are middling against the pass now because they aren't executing.   They should still be a top 10 pass defense.   They are blowing assignments, not making adjustments that should be intuitive at this point,  not getting their head around etc..

 

It's very unlike what they have been in the past.

 

If they were fully healthy and the coaching staff were willing(and able) to make some adjustments to a scheme that has become familiar enough that teams like the Jets can just throw up prayers to a spot and often find uncovered targets............this would be the #1 defense in the NFL by a fair amount, IMO.

 

They are deeper and overall more talented than the rest.   Even SF(which has suspect secondary talent). 

[gflande1]

Can he play WR? Nope…so therefore he sucks 

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, BillsVet said:

 

I'm not pointing at you with that reasoning, but it's popular here with some.    

 

The 7 I referenced are: Miller, White, Hyde, T. Johnson, MIlano, Oliver, and Jones (he of 8.6M).  If you assume they'll re-sign Oliver, then your wish to see offensive upgrades just took a hit.  What do you think Oliver gets?  I wouldn't be surprised if he clocks in with Jonathan Allen type extension of 18M AAV.

 

I'm not implying their spending on defense inhibits offensive spending, I'm saying it's reality.  Most Bills fans wish away problems by saying the cap will go up...but they've never paid a QB in the cap era 1/6th of their cap either.    

 

That consideration means something has to give.  The defensive scheme needs to become lower cost while retaining the same or similar value.  Buffalo can't go out and sign UFA's on defense like they have these past few years, improve the offense, and pay Josh.  They ain't got the money nor have the players to re-structure to free the amount necessary to do all these things.  They've already re-done Dawkins and Tre's deals in the last few months.   

 

They still have plenty of ways to restructure and free up money. Josh Allen, Matt Milano and Taron Johnson the most obvious. Ed getting $18m AAV wouldn't mean $18m cap hit in 2023. I would still expect the 2023 hit to go down. There a bigger cap increases coming from the new tv deals so ever dollar you punt into future cap years you are getting a real terms discount on. 

 

The swing on Von reduced their flexibility. I accept that. But it didn't remove it. The Bills are still in a pretty good spot cap wise for an organisation at this point of the cycle. 

 

What they can't afford to do is keep prioritising the defense with the mid range deals. I have been critical of the decision to go 4 deep with relatively well paid DTs. I think someone like a Brandin Bryant as the 4th guy in your rotation for peanuts and rededicate that mid range deal to offense would have been the way to go. I suppose it is fair at this stage to note they gave a decent guard contract out last spring. It was just a whiff on an overrated past his overrated best old bloke. 

 

They have the cap headroom and the draft capital to add three impact guys to the offense this offseason on the line and in the passing game. The problem they have had on O is they have had more talent whiffs there. Zay Jones, Cody Ford and Zack Moss are their three worst early picks. All offense.

[vincec]

5 hours ago, GreggTX said:

I don't know that he's better than Oliver, but the difference in our run defense has been huge.

 

The combination of the two is outstanding. Then you rotate in Phillips and Settle and it’s arguably the best DT group in the league, IMO.

[TFBillsfan]

3 hours ago, nosejob said:

I'm excited to see how Beane builds this Oline and you can bet ur ass this is his next step. I know it's early but a thread exploring the 2023 draft would be interesting. There are some mock drafts already out there. On another note, I'm all for giving Poyer a 1 yr. deal for next year. I believe we have one more year to build a future safety tandem.

Hopeful Josh Downs, North Carolina WR, who would be a great slot receiver with speed, is there when we pick. Playmakers at WR and additions to the OL are a must.  The miss on Cody Ford hurt as if they hit on it would have been an anchor at OG for many years.

[Punching Bag]

14 hours ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

He's what Star needed to be 

 

Star was brought in to be a space eater requiring two offense linemen not role Jones is doing.  He was effective at times but his fear of getting COVID cost him a year AND THEN after coming into shape working on his own he got COVID and was completely unproductive.  If he had COVID-19 during first year when he had full Bills medical support he could have recovered first year and next year shown his value. 

[BillsVet]

12 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

What they can't afford to do is keep prioritising the defense with the mid range deals. I have been critical of the decision to go 4 deep with relatively well paid DTs. I think someone like a Brandin Bryant as the 4th guy in your rotation for peanuts and rededicate that mid range deal to offense would have been the way to go. I suppose it is fair at this stage to note they gave a decent guard contract out last spring. It was just a whiff on an overrated past his overrated best old bloke. 

 

They have the cap headroom and the draft capital to add three impact guys to the offense this offseason on the line and in the passing game. The problem they have had on O is they have had more talent whiffs there. Zay Jones, Cody Ford and Zack Moss are their three worst early picks. All offense.

 

The original post here was talking up the play of DaQuan Jones and how that was a great Beane signing.  That's one of those mid-range deals the Bills have taken on several times going back to McD's start.  Some have been excellent, though the investment in the DL to be 8-9 deep has value, but is more about the HC's defensive strategy.  Few teams actually do this, yet there is no indication Buffalo will look to be more cost effective there and as it stands, they'll spend somewhere around 20% of their cap there next season.

[Behindenemylines]

20 hours ago, HomeskillitMoorman said:

 

But Star clogged up the middle!

Only thing Star clogged was his arteries 😁

[GunnerBill]

32 minutes ago, BillsVet said:

 

The original post here was talking up the play of DaQuan Jones and how that was a great Beane signing.  That's one of those mid-range deals the Bills have taken on several times going back to McD's start.  Some have been excellent, though the investment in the DL to be 8-9 deep has value, but is more about the HC's defensive strategy.  Few teams actually do this, yet there is no indication Buffalo will look to be more cost effective there and as it stands, they'll spend somewhere around 20% of their cap there next season.

 

I don't disagree with any of that and have made the same argument but that doesn't change the fact that Jones has been an excellent pick up. Whether we need Tim Settle and Jordan Phillips and mid range deals backing he and Ed up rather than diverting some of that case to the offense is an entirely fair question. They still have some cap flex available for 2023 (which was where I disagreed with you) but they can't go defense heavy again. Agreed. 

[LABILLBACKER]

20 hours ago, Logic said:

Fair enough.

They were also 13th against the rush last year, but are 4th this year.

I think that being better against the run necessarily leads to giving up more passing yards, and the injuries and turnover at CB and S have certainly not helped.

I just don't care anymore about how high our defense is ranked in various categories during the regular season. Our last 3 playoff exits have been because our defense failed us.

[Logic]

14 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

That's box score scouting.

 

The 2022 Bills haven't been such a middling pass defense because they defend the run very well.

 

They are middling because they are giving up big plays on obvious passing downs..................and often having their once dynamic zone defense exploited even if opposing QB's are getting pounded by the front.    

 

You had the opposite take when you were hard apologizing for Star Lotulelei............."the Bills are 19th against the run because they are so good against the pass".

 

The reality is that the Bills have been a base nickel defense all along.

 

As I told you then.........it's about execution.

 

The Bills run D was only middling because their front 7 wasn't executing.     The Polynesian Pylon was a big part of that underachievement.

 

They are middling against the pass now because they aren't executing.   They should still be a top 10 pass defense.   They are blowing assignments, not making adjustments that should be intuitive at this point,  not getting their head around etc..

 

It's very unlike what they have been in the past.

 

If they were fully healthy and the coaching staff were willing(and able) to make some adjustments to a scheme that has become familiar enough that teams like the Jets can just throw up prayers to a spot and often find uncovered targets............this would be the #1 defense in the NFL by a fair amount, IMO.

 

They are deeper and overall more talented than the rest.   Even SF(which has suspect secondary talent). 

Hope you're having a nice holiday season, BADOL.

Happy Christmas to you and yours!

[Thurman#1]

22 hours ago, HomeskillitMoorman said:

 

But Star clogged up the middle!

 

 

Yes, and very well the first two years. Didn't rush the QB the way DaQuan did but he did very well at space eating.

 

Bills defensive YPC this year:  4.2

Bills defensive YPC in 2019:  4.3

Bills defensive YPC in 2018: 4.2

 

That's not all DaQuan and Star, but those first two years before Covid, Star was a fine player, though never really a pass rusher.

 

[nosejob]

14 hours ago, TFBillsfan said:

Hopeful Josh Downs, North Carolina WR, who would be a great slot receiver with speed, is there when we pick. Playmakers at WR and additions to the OL are a must.  The miss on Cody Ford hurt as if they hit on it would have been an anchor at OG for many years.

I was kind of thinking if we stood pat last year, taking Zion Johnson and then McCreary, (sp?) but I trust Beane to tackle building the line this next off season.

[BADOLBILZ]

1 hour ago, Logic said:

Hope you're having a nice holiday season, BADOL.

Happy Christmas to you and yours!

 

 

Absolutely, you as well.

 

Good to see you are learning about football........run defense is all about effort and technique..........players say it all the time and it goes in one ear and out the other as fans try to build a super team of run defenders on paper.   

 

Technique is import for internetting too...........you blindly defended Star Lotulelei for years and now you are trying to get in front of a Daquan Jones for best signing ever train.

 

It's sh*tting on the Star signing without having to admit you were wrong.

 

That's just good internet, right there.    Well played. 

[Logic]

2 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Absolutely, you as well.

 

Good to see you are learning about football........run defense is all about effort and technique..........players say it all the time and it goes in one ear and out the other as fans try to build a super team of run defenders on paper.   

 

Technique is import for internetting too...........you blindly defended Star Lotulelei for years and now you are trying to get in front of a Daquan Jones for best signing ever train.

 

It's sh*tting on the Star signing without having to admit you were wrong.

 

That's just good internet, right there.    Well played. 

My internet friend, I would like to suggest a new tactic:

Have a conversation on here with someone without insulting them or being condescending. Just try it. Just once.

You have added two replies in this thread. Both were either insulting, condescending, or both. As I've said before, you're clearly very bright and have intelligent, worthwhile football opinions. For whatever reason, though, you seem either incapable or unwilling to discuss them without belittling the person to whom you are speaking. Maybe you don't even realize you're doing it. Maybe you've been doing it for so long that you don't know any other way. I'm not really sure.

If you want to be the model for "good internetting technique", I might suggest one of the most basic, simple, crucial factors in said technique: Be kind to people. If not kind, at least be decent. Don't be needlessly rude to people you've never met. It doesn't serve you well, it doesn't serve the person to whom you're speaking well, it doesn't serve ANYBODY well. It's just not necessary.

With that said, I wish you and your family good health, happiness, and prosperity this holiday season and into the new year.

Go Bills!



 

[BADOLBILZ]

43 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Yes, and very well the first two years. Didn't rush the QB the way DaQuan did but he did very well at space eating.

 

Bills defensive YPC this year:  4.2

Bills defensive YPC in 2019:  4.3

Bills defensive YPC in 2018: 4.2

 

That's not all DaQuan and Star, but those first two years before Covid, Star was a fine player, though never really a pass rusher.

 

 

 

Star was far from a fine player in 2018 and 2019.    To quote @GunnerBill on those years........Star was "trash".    

 

By far his best season as a Bill was 2021..........suggesting otherwise is trying to create a narrative that he declined with age or due to covid or something.......which is entirely false.

 

And the Bills looked at his 2021 and determined that the 2022 version wouldn't even be worth about $1M in actual cap space and chose to instead take nearly an $8M dead cap hit.  

 

That is about as big of an indictment of his performance as you could possibly get.

 

To suggest he was anything but a bust of a signing is absurd.

 

$40M in real money spent for 3 seasons of a player they would have loved to been able to cut and replace after the first season........but could not.

[BADOLBILZ]

16 minutes ago, Logic said:

My internet friend, I would like to suggest a new tactic:

Have a conversation on here with someone without insulting them or being condescending. Just try it. Just once.

You have added two replies in this thread. Both were either insulting, condescending, or both. As I've said before, you're clearly very bright and have intelligent, worthwhile football opinions. For whatever reason, though, you seem either incapable or unwilling to discuss them without belittling the person to whom you are speaking. Maybe you don't even realize you're doing it. Maybe you've been doing it for so long that you don't know any other way. I'm not really sure.

If you want to be the model for "good internetting technique", I might suggest one of the most basic, simple, crucial factors in said technique: Be kind to people. If not kind, at least be decent. Don't be needlessly rude to people you've never met. It doesn't serve you well, it doesn't serve the person to whom you're speaking well, it doesn't serve ANYBODY well. It's just not necessary.

With that said, I wish you and your family good health, happiness, and prosperity this holiday season and into the new year.

Go Bills!



 

 

 

I'll let you in on a little secret that ownership here knows.............if I am unkind or sarcastic to you it's because you "initiated" our internet discourse with a personal attack about a football take that you disagreed with.

 

So if you are here.........don't tell me about being kind. 

 

And once you do that.........you are fair game to be held pointedly accountable for your bad takes. 

 

You can acknowledge it and be a good sport about the discourse you initiated..............or you can cry about it and try to make your perceived unfair treatment wrt to your takes the focus of the topic instead of football(like above).

 

I've literally never initiated negative discourse with anyone on this forum...........even if I vehemently disagree with a take I keep it about football until they do not............to me, that is the cardinal sin of the forum.    

 

The piling on and shouting down some of you do discourages new people from posting and it's an attempt by like minded people to dominate the forum.   

[Logic]

Just now, BADOLBILZ said:

 

I've literally never initiated negative discourse with anyone on this forum...........even if I vehemently disagree with a take I keep it about football until they do not............to me, that is the cardinal sin of the forum.    

 

 

[BADOLBILZ]

5 minutes ago, Logic said:

 

 

 

Like I said.........if you were kind to every poster in your initial discourse with them........you wouldn't have to cry and divert topics from football to personal.

 

Which I have no idea why you would want to do...........not that having your own apartment isn't a great life accomplishment but I'd dare say that being a football fan is probably one of your stronger suits. 

 

Own it...........you defended Star and thought that was a good signing too!

[Simon Says]

On 12/15/2022 at 10:41 AM, SCBills said:

Our DT rotation, once Phillips comes back, may be the best in the Playoffs.
 

Only thing missing are some of the consistent impact plays a single guy like Donald, Quinnen & Chris Jones provide.   
 

For the all the talk about Von and the young pass rushers on the outside, the DT room Beane has built is a monster. 

For sure!

[Logic]

5 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Like I said.........if you were kind to every poster in your initial discourse with them........you wouldn't have to cry and divert topics from football to personal.

 

Which I have no idea why you would want to do...........not that having your own apartment isn't a great life accomplishment but I'd dare say that being a football fan is probably one of your stronger suits. 

 

Own it...........you defended Star and thought that was a good signing too!

Lecturing, insulting, condescending, projecting, and wanting to re-litigate Star Lotulelei for the millionth time. 

Yep, that's BADOL, alright! 

Love ya buddy.

[wppete]

Since Vaugn Miller is out for the season would like to see the Captain C on Daquan’s chest. Makes sense this guy is a leader and does nothing but produce. 

[BigAl2526]

He's a clear upgrade from Lotulelei.  That's the important thing for me.

[BearNorth]

19 hours ago, wppete said:

Since Vaugn Miller is out for the season would like to see the Captain C on Daquan’s chest. Makes sense this guy is a leader and does nothing but produce. 

Really?? Our captains haven't fared well on the injury front:

 

- Josh - Probably on the Injury List for the rest of the season

- Morse - Probably on the Injury List for the rest of the season, Missed 2 games including @ Miami

- DIggs - so far so good

- Hyde - IR

- Von - IR

- Edmunds - Has missed 3 games due to injury

- Poyer - has missed 4 games due to Injury

- Taiwan - has been dinged but has missed no games

- Matakevich - so far so good

 

Not a good look

[Thurman#1]

21 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Star was far from a fine player in 2018 and 2019.    To quote @GunnerBill on those years........Star was "trash".    

 

By far his best season as a Bill was 2021..........suggesting otherwise is trying to create a narrative that he declined with age or due to covid or something.......which is entirely false.

 

And the Bills looked at his 2021 and determined that the 2022 version wouldn't even be worth about $1M in actual cap space and chose to instead take nearly an $8M dead cap hit.  

 

That is about as big of an indictment of his performance as you could possibly get.

 

To suggest he was anything but a bust of a signing is absurd.

 

$40M in real money spent for 3 seasons of a player they would have loved to been able to cut and replace after the first season........but could not.

 

 

Yeah, I get that you feel that way. Thing is, what you say ain't reasonable.

 

The Bills have made it clear - very very clear - that he was doing the unglamorous things they needed done, eating bloc

 

When the choice is between the opinion of the  coaches and players on the Bills and the opinion of a depressive on the internet focused on any Bills problem he can find, the smart person knows the Bills are right.

 

DaQuan is better, he's collapsing the pocket really well. But Star was doing a really good job generally - the first two years - eating that space, enveloping those blocks, moving sideways but not back, and making life a lot easier for the players around him.

 

The year before Star got here, the Bills had the ninth-worst defensive YPC in the league. The Panthers, with Star, had the ninth-best. The next year, Star goes from Carolina to Buffalo and the Bills are now the ninth-best at defensive YPC and the Panthers drop to 21st.

 

Star wasn't all of that difference, but he was a major major part of it.

 

I certainly agree about his last two years here, opting out but then not getting vaxed and then getting Covid early in the 2021 season and immediately experiencing a massive dropoff from which he never really recovered. Awful. And it could very possibly have been avoided.

 

But his first two years here he was an absolute success.

 

Here's what Beane had to say, from Getzenberg:

 

"Lotulelei missed time during the 2021 season after testing positive for COVID-19 and for personal reasons. General manager Brandon Beane noted a decline in Lotulelei's performance after dealing with the effects of COVID-19 despite being one of the Bills' 'disruptive lineman' in the early portion of the season.

'But when he got COVID, when he came back, it really affected him,' Beane said. 'Without getting too deep into the woods, I don't think he returned to form. And I think he'd be the first to tell you that at what he was playing at earlier in the year. He got better and I thought it improved the two playoff games, but I still don't think it was as consistent as he was the first part of the season.'"

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/33537065/buffalo-bills-release-star-lotulelei-following-dt-additions-free-agency

 

 

Edited December 17, 2022 by Thurman#1

[Mr. WEO]

wait, who was Beane's best free agent signing in years last year? 

[BADOLBILZ]

1 hour ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Yeah, I get that you feel that way. Thing is, what you say ain't reasonable.

 

The Bills have made it clear - very very clear - that he was doing the unglamorous things they needed done, eating bloc

 

 

Nonsense!.........as you so often say.

 

Actions speak louder than words..........they took a dead cap hit of $7.7M to save a paltry $1.5M in cap space.

 

Paid him $40M for 3 seasons.  

 

But you claim it's not even "reasonable" to say he was a bust. 

 

The thing about all your incredibly bad takes of the past is now you have to play TSW Baghdad Bob on here defending them.