Great Catches by Bills receivers - Are they winning 1 on 1 battles?

[Billsfan1972]

Watching other teams and seem to see a lot of great catches, contested ones, tough ones where the qb didn't put it right on the #'s and receivers winning one on one battles.

 

Am I wrong to think we don't see as many by the Bills?  Yes Diggs makes his catches, but most are just great routes and throws.  I remember the one handed one vs. Minny and obviously the one vs. Detroit where he took the hit too.

 

Davis I remember the one in the endzone vs. Pitt.

 

Knox I remember one too.

 

Look a crisp route and the ball being thrown accurately, the swing pass in open spaces, or the pass that hits the receiver right where it should in the open seam these are things we expect and see.  

 

It is the difficult catch, the one that bails out the QB, the one where the receiver takes a violent hit and hold on, or when caught and was contested by the CB/DB, these are the ones I have seen a lot of lately when watching other games & highlights.

 

Yes I think back to the Minny game and all the catches they seemed to make to continue drives and convert 3rd & 4th downs as an example.

 

Am I being tough on the Bills saying I haven't seen nearly enough and then the question is why not?

 

 

 

Edited December 10, 2022 by Billsfan1972

[John from Riverside]

All I know is the ball placement on those passes has gotten better every year and now it’s pretty good this year you don’t see balls getting thrown behind receivers on throws over the middle. For instance, we need those past catchers to make those place not just catch the ball, but get RAC after the catch.

[hemma]

Although making difficult, contested catches should be the goal, we’ve had several JA ints that could have been avoided if our receivers switched roles and simply knocked the ball down.  I’d rather suffer an Offensive PI than a turnover (INT ).

[teef]

You say you don’t want the negativity in a thread, yet you mention specific people by name.  Quit being such an attention *****. 
 

edit:   If anyone doesn’t realize why this was my initial response to this thread, the op called myself and another poster out by name.  

Edited December 10, 2022 by teef

[Billsfan1972]

7 minutes ago, teef said:

You say you don’t want the negativity in a thread, yet you mention specific people by name.  Quit being such an attention *****. 

Just you & Royale....  You know why.

 

I am stating an opinion and what I am seeing.  

 

Asking if it is a fair assessment?

[teef]

Just now, Billsfan1972 said:

Just you & Royale....  You know why.

 

I am stating an opinion and what I am seeing.  

 

Asking if it is a fair assessment?

No one cares.  You don’t want to have a football discussion.   You’re bored and want to argue.   Calling people out in a thread doesn’t shout reasonable.  

[Billsfan1972]

2 minutes ago, teef said:

No one cares.  You don’t want to have a football discussion.   You’re bored and want to argue.   Calling people out in a thread doesn’t shout reasonable.  

I was asking a question (and yes named you two, knowing as you are now showing that you won't answer the question, just tell me that the thread is negative and serves no purpose).

 

You can PM me if you want to take it offline.  I'm just posting an observation I have (and yes may be completely wrong).

 

Edited December 10, 2022 by Billsfan1972

[teef]

Just now, Billsfan1972 said:

I was asking a question (and yes named you two, knowing as you are now showing that you won't answer the question, just tell me that the thread is negative and serves no purpose).

 

Jesus dude.  Carry a thread on your own.  If a few of us didn’t bust your balls a bit, theses thread would die off after a few hours.  Remember how you had to bump a thread of yours multiple times over two days just to keep it on the first page?   No…one…cares.  Stop being a man child and try your best at having a normal discussion.  It’s sad that you let a couple of posters live in your head. 

[Donuts and Doritos]

Well here's their catching stats:

Player.  - catches of targets = catch %

 

Diggs  - 91 of 128 = 71%

Davis. - 35 of 67 = 52%

McKenzie. - 35 of 50 = 70%

Knox. - 33 of 43 = 77%

Singletary. - 31 of 42 = 74%

Cook. - 15 of 24 = 63%

Shakir. - 8 of 16 = 50%

Morris. - 7 of 10 = 70%

Kumerow. - 4 of 7 = 57%

Crowder. - 6 of 13 = 46%

Gilliam. - 7 of 9 = 78%

Hines. - 2 of 5 = 40%

 

When you search for who has the lowest catch % in the NFL Davis comes up (see 2nd link below). 

 

For comparison, here's some other WR & TE around the league:

 

Tyreek Hill - 96 of 129 = 74%

Travis Kelce - 77 of 108 = 71%

Justin Jefferson - 88 of 127 = 69%

Austin Ekeler - 85 of 104 = 82%

Cooper Kupp - 75 of 98 = 77%

CeeDee Lamb - 69 of 111 = 62%

Christian Kirk - 62 of 99 = 63%

AJ Brown - 61 of 96 = 64%

Amari Cooper - 61 of 102 = 60%

Tee Higgins - 60 of 85 = 71%

Garet Wilson - 57 of 94 = 61%

Mark Andrews - 56 of 86 = 65%

Mike Evans - 55 of 89 = 62%

Ja'Marr Chase - 54 of 82 = 66%

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/team/stats/_/name/buf/buffalo-bills

 

https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask/who-has-the-lowest-catch-percentage-among-wide-receivers#:~:text=Gabe Davis has the worst,this season%2C at 47.4 percent.

 

https://www.nfl.com/stats/player-stats/category/receiving/2022/reg/all/receivingreceptions/desc

 

Edited December 10, 2022 by Donuts and Doritos

[Tanoros]

1 hour ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Watching other teams and seem to see a lot of great catches, contested ones, tough one's where the qb didn't put it right on the #'s and receivers winning one on one battles.

 

Am I wrong to think we don't see as many by the Bills?  Yes Diggs makes his catches, but most are just great routes and throws.  I remember the one handed one vs. Minny and obviously the one vs. Detroit where he took the hit too.

 

Davis I remember the one in the endzone vs. Pitt.

 

Knox I remember one too.

 

Look a crisp route and the ball being thrown accurately, the swing pass in open spaces, or the pass that hits the receiver right where it should in the open seam these are things we expect and see.  

 

It is the difficult catch, the one that bails out the QB or when caught and was contested by the CB/DB are the ones I have seen a lot of lately when watching other games & highlights.

 

Yes I think back to the Minny game and all the catches they seemed to make to continue drives and convert 3rd & 4th downs as an example.

 

Am I being tough on the Bills saying I haven't seen nearly enough and then the question is why not?

 

And for Teef & Royale With Cheese I'm just posting a thread asking a question and if it is a fair assessment.  It is just what I am seeing and maybe I'm missing something.....😉

 

It’s not just you OP, I’ve felt the same way this year, and that MN game felt like the culmination of that frustration. I don’t know why the Bills aren’t doing great with the contested catches this year, but our opponents have seemed to pull off contested catches better in the games we’ve played them atleast.  

[TheBrownBear]

There's a handful of really tall, lean, bendy and/or extraordinarily strong physical freak receivers who can pull off the acrobatics to which you're referring, and, yeah, we really don't have that type of player on the current roster.  But our guys make plenty of tough catches in tight spaces, especially Diggs. 

 

Unless I'm forgetting someone, the last Bill that could really consistently beat a db for a 50/50 ball was probably Moulds?

[Ya Digg?]

1 hour ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Watching other teams and seem to see a lot of great catches, contested ones, tough one's where the qb didn't put it right on the #'s and receivers winning one on one battles.

 

Am I wrong to think we don't see as many by the Bills?  Yes Diggs makes his catches, but most are just great routes and throws.  I remember the one handed one vs. Minny and obviously the one vs. Detroit where he took the hit too.

 

Davis I remember the one in the endzone vs. Pitt.

 

Knox I remember one too.

 

Look a crisp route and the ball being thrown accurately, the swing pass in open spaces, or the pass that hits the receiver right where it should in the open seam these are things we expect and see.  

 

It is the difficult catch, the one that bails out the QB or when caught and was contested by the CB/DB are the ones I have seen a lot of lately when watching other games & highlights.

 

Yes I think back to the Minny game and all the catches they seemed to make to continue drives and convert 3rd & 4th downs as an example.

 

Am I being tough on the Bills saying I haven't seen nearly enough and then the question is why not?

 

 

 

Have you analyzed every other team like you have the Bills? Or are you looking at other teams highlights and comparing that to the Bills? My opinion is yes, you are being overly critical about this 

[Billsfan1972]

3 minutes ago, Donuts and Doritos said:

Well here's their catching stats:

Player.  - catches of targets = catch %

 

Diggs  - 91 of 128 = 71%

Davis. - 35 of 67 = 52%

McKenzie. - 35 of 50 = 70%

Knox. - 33 of 43 = 77%

Singletary. - 31 of 42 = 74%

Cook. - 15 of 24 = 63%

Shakir. - 8 of 16 = 50%

Morris. - 7 of 10 = 70%

Kumerow. - 4 of 7 = 57%

Crowder. - 6 of 13 = 46%

Gillian. - 7 of 9 = 78%

Hines. - 2 of 5 = 40%

 

When you search for who has the lowest catch % in the NFL Davis comes up (see 2nd link below). 

 

For comparison, here's some other WR & TE around the league:

 

Tyreek Hill - 96 of 129 = 74%

Travis Kelce - 77 of 108 = 71%

Justin Jefferson - 88 of 127 = 69%

Austin Ekeler - 85 of 104 = 82%

Cooper Kupp - 75 of 98 = 77%

CeeDee Lamb - 69 of 111 = 62%

Christian Kirk - 62 of 99 = 63%

AJ Brown - 61 of 96 = 64%

Amari Cooper - 61 of 102 = 60%

Tee Higgins - 60 of 85 = 71%

Garet Wilson - 57 of 94 = 61%

Mark Andrews - 56 of 86 = 65%

Mike Evans - 55 of 89 = 62%

Ja'Marr Chase - 54 of 82 = 66%

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/team/stats/_/name/buf/buffalo-bills

 

https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask/who-has-the-lowest-catch-percentage-among-wide-receivers#:~:text=Gabe Davis has the worst,this season%2C at 47.4 percent.

 

https://www.nfl.com/stats/player-stats/category/receiving/2022/reg/all/receivingreceptions/desc

 

Good stats & yes checked them, but really no indication of the difficulty of the catches.  There are stats too (not finding them now showing QB's and the accuracy of their passes and how many bad ones they've thrown....). 

 

Jefferson makes spectacular catches continually as does Kupp and others.  I will say Diggs too (but not sure how many this year).

 

More an eye test question as I just haven't seen that many by Buffalo.  

2 minutes ago, Ya Digg? said:

Have you analyzed every other team like you have the Bills? Or are you looking at other teams highlights and comparing that to the Bills? My opinion is yes, you are being overly critical about this 

That is why I asked.  I watch every Bills game, but watch a lot of other ones too and see what I think are "wow" catches more often then in Bills games.  Look at Thursday and the last drive vs. the Raiders and the Rams made some.  Jefferson vs. the Bills was unreal.  Burrow & Cincy vs. KC I saw a # too. JMHO. 

[TheBrownBear]

Donuts, thanks for posting the catch percentage numbers.  I don't think you can draw too many conclusions from those though, because those numbers are greatly influenced by the types and depth of routes these guys are being targeted in, and the quarterback play they are paired with.  

[teef]

33 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

I was asking a question (and yes named you two, knowing as you are now showing that you won't answer the question, just tell me that the thread is negative and serves no purpose).

 

You can PM me if you want to take it offline.  I'm just posting an observation I have (and yes may be completely wrong).

 

Dude, don’t send me any more private messages.  I don’t care.  

[Ya Digg?]

21 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Good stats & yes checked them, but really no indication of the difficulty of the catches.  There are stats too (not finding them now showing QB's and the accuracy of their passes and how many bad ones they've thrown....). 

 

Jefferson makes spectacular catches continually as does Kupp and others.  I will say Diggs too (but not sure how many this year).

 

More an eye test question as I just haven't seen that many by Buffalo.  

That is why I asked.  I watch every Bills game, but watch a lot of other ones too and see what I think are "wow" catches more often then in Bills games.  Look at Thursday and the last drive vs. the Raiders and the Rams made some.  Jefferson vs. the Bills was unreal.  Burrow & Cincy vs. KC I saw a # too. JMHO. 

See to me this is where your argument fails. You are using Jefferson as part of your argument-he’s one of the best in the league. Diggs makes the catches he makes. There was ONE really nice contested catch in that final drive the other night, I’ll give you that, but that’s a catch that guy is going to make one out of every 10-20 times. Again I get it, we see these highlights with guys from other teams making these catches, but we don’t see the drops, the overthrows, the contested throws that aren’t caught, etc and assume the Bills don’t make those catches as much as the other teams. I’m not saying they do or don’t, have no idea, but I think you are cherry picking here

[SinceThe70s]

55 minutes ago, Tanoros said:

It’s not just you OP, I’ve felt the same way this year, and that MN game felt like the culmination of that frustration. I don’t know why the Bills aren’t doing great with the contested catches this year, but our opponents have seemed to pull off contested catches better in the games we’ve played them atleast.  

 

Isn't that the same game that Diggs made an amazing catch well before Jefferson's?  

[MJS]

You don't ever want to rely on contested catches. That means your receiver hasn't gotten separation. They are called 50/50 balls for a reason. Sometimes the defender makes a good play on those and comes up with an INT.

 

Davis was catching a lot of those last year. Now, he isn't so much. That's where a lot of Allen's INT's have come. So basically, Allen wants to throw it to guys who are open and put it on the money because that is smart and effective. He doesn't want to put it in a contested catch situation because it is risky and he got burned multiple times this year. He will really only take risks with Diggs, now. And I'm fine with that.

 

But also consider this: the Bills have a bunch of lower round draft picks at receiver. Diggs: 5th round. Davis: 4th round. McKenzie: 5th round. Shakir: 5th round. What does that mean? They lack elite traits. No big size/speed/athletic freak combos on this team at receiver. Knox is the closest thing.

 

Wanting a bunch of wow catches I guess is understandable, but also a little unreasonable and unnecessary.

Edited December 10, 2022 by MJS

[Scott7975]

I’ve seen our guys make some tough catches but it does seem like way less than other teams do. I always think Josh has one of the more difficult jobs in the league comparatively. Tua gets bailed out all the time despite his most accurately well placed pillow. Mahomes is very accurate but he gets a lot of tough caught balls too. 
 

maybe I just get pissed off more when our guys drop ‘‘em but it does seem like they don’t make all that many tough catches.

[Buffalo Junction]

49 minutes ago, MJS said:

You don't ever want to rely on contested catches. That means your receiver hasn't gotten separation. They are called 50/50 balls for a reason. Sometimes the defender makes a good play on those and comes up with an INT.

 

Davis was catching a lot of those last year. Now, he isn't so much. That's where a lot of Allen's INT's have come. So basically, Allen wants to throw it to guys who are open and put it on the money because that is smart and effective. He doesn't want to put it in a contested catch situation because it is risky and he got burned multiple times this year. He will really only take risks with Diggs, now. And I'm fine with that.

 

But also consider this: the Bills have a bunch of lower round draft picks at receiver. Diggs: 5th round. Davis: 4th round. McKenzie: 5th round. Shakir: 5th round. What does that mean? They lack elite traits. No big size/speed/athletic freak combos on this team at receiver. Knox is the closest thing.

 

Wanting a bunch of wow catches I guess is understandable, but also a little unreasonable and unnecessary.

Heavily agree with the bolded. The majority of the dominant contested catch WRs are traits guys drafted in the first round (Hopkins, Chase, Evans, Jefferson, OBJ). Many of those that aren’t 1st rounders dropped due to character/injury concerns (Metcalf neck) or going to a smaller school (Davante Adams Fresno St).