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Injuries NOT an excuse. Bills tied for 5th fewest man games lost to injury thru Week 11


Big Turk
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37 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

Can you point out the given week that there were only one or two guys out on defense?

Week 1 against the Rams.  White was out.  I think that's the only game.  Oliver was hurt in the Rams game and Hyde and Jackson were hurt game 2 against the Titans.  

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28 minutes ago, NewEra said:

One or two guys.  Lol.  That’s not what is happening

 

You are acting like we've missed Oliver/Hyde/Poyer/Edmunds/Milano/Groot/etc all together for multiple games.

 

My point is that's not the reality of the situation and it's really been one or two of these key guys at a time which still sucks but should change the entire defense and integrity of the scheme.

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1 hour ago, ScottLaw said:

Hard to not be skeptical they go this route…. They’ve proven they prefer defense time and time again…. Hell, McD and Beane told us multiple times how good Davis is and he is proof that you don’t need to take WRs early this past off season. 
 

You have a great Safety prospect sitting there at the end of round 1 vs a great WR prospect…. Going to have to keep McDermott out of the room to not take the safety. 

I’m with you. As you know I thought it was a bigger priority last off-season that was ignored…. 

 

I understand the scepticism. I was offensive line, receiver or corner last year and the way this year has played out I don't think I was wrong that corner was a need, is a premium position that can sink your season if you are bad there, and that simply taking Dane Jackson playing well as a given would be foolish. I do not see safety next year the same way. Yes, it is likely a need. But it is simply not a premium position in the same way. I think they will draft a safety in the first two days of the draft. I do not think that should be in the first round. 

 

Receiver or Offensive Tackle. 

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2 minutes ago, FilthyBeast said:

 

You are acting like we've missed Oliver/Hyde/Poyer/Edmunds/Milano/Groot/etc all together for multiple games.

 

My point is that's not the reality of the situation and it's really been one or two of these key guys at a time which still sucks but should change the entire defense and integrity of the scheme.

No, I’m definitely not.  
 

But you are definitely acting like we’re missing only Hyde or Hyde plus ONE other key player every week.  That is not the case.  

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8 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I understand the scepticism. I was offensive line, receiver or corner last year and the way this year has played out I don't think I was wrong that corner was a need, is a premium position that can sink your season if you are bad there, and that simply taking Dane Jackson playing well as a given would be foolish. I do not see safety next year the same way. Yes, it is likely a need. But it is simply not a premium position in the same way. I think they will draft a safety in the first two days of the draft. I do not think that should be in the first round. 

 

Receiver or Offensive Tackle. 

Yea.. can’t deny I was against a first round corner… but Jackson has been garbage the past few weeks and they really miss Tre… 

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4 minutes ago, Logic said:

These charts shows that the Bills are actually the 2nd or 3rd MOST AFFECTED by injury of any team in the NFL.

 

 

So it looks like we finally have a graph that takes into account the QUALITY of the players being lost. And it confirms what anyone with a half a brain already knew….

 

But then there was @FilthyBeast

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19 hours ago, FilthyBeast said:

 

You are acting like we've missed Oliver/Hyde/Poyer/Edmunds/Milano/Groot/etc all together for multiple games.

 

My point is that's not the reality of the situation and it's really been one or two of these key guys at a time which still sucks but should change the entire defense and integrity of the scheme.

 

Oliver/Hyde/White/Poyer have all together have missed close to 35 games total.

I think Oliver has only played with Poyer about 3 or 4 games.

Poyer played one 1.5 games with Hyde.

Poyer played 2 series with White.

 

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23 hours ago, Royale with Cheese said:

Injuries are an excuse like it was for Baltimore last year.  Saying injuries aren't an excuse is basically saying the back ups are equally as effective as the starters.

 

A regular rate of injuries to starters, if you're a good team, shouldn't faze you too much.  But when you have this:

- Von Miller (Indefinitely)

- Jordan Poyer (4 games)

- Micah Hyde (15 games)

- Tre White (10 games)

- Kair Elam (2 games)

- Christian Benford (3 games + additional 4 games for IR)

- Jordan Phillips (3 games)

- Tim Settle (2 games)

- Ed Oliver (4 games)

- Greg Rosseau  (3 games)

- Tremaine Edmunds (3 games)

- Matt Milano (1 game)

 

Everyone of these players except Milano missed multiple games or will miss multiple games.  That's 4 All Pro's on defense that we have missed multiple games at the same time.  That's many key contributing starters who aren't All Pro's. 

Not only that, but the back ups have gotten hurt and we've had to use 3rd and 4th stringers.

We have had every single starter injured except Taron Johnson and DaQuan.  That's unreal.

 

If the Cowboys were missing Parsons, Diggs, Lawrence, Kearse, Vander Esch, Anthony Brown and Armstrong all around the same time and for multiple games...would they be as good?  

 

and that doesnt even include our oline.

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17 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

Oliver/Hyde/White/Poyer have all together have missed close to 35 games total.

I think Oliver has only played with Poyer about 3 or 4 games.

Poyer played one 1.5 games with Hyde.

Poyer played 2 series with White.

 

the moment i got into the car after work yesterday, they were talking about injuries.  i think they mentioned that kc was now the leader for super bowl odds instead of buffalo.  the main reason?  injuries.  tough injuries coming at a bad time.  the bills don't seem to be trending in the better direction either.

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1 minute ago, teef said:

the moment i got into the car after work yesterday, they were talking about injuries.  i think they mentioned that kc was now the leader for super bowl odds instead of buffalo.  the main reason?  injuries.  tough injuries coming at a bad time.  the bills don't seem to be trending in the better direction either.

 

They are barely favorites above the Bills too even with our injuries.  

 

We have 6 weeks to get healthy.

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I was in a discussion with someone a few days ago, and he pointed out the real problem with the Bills' injuries on defense, beyond just the quality of the talent the Bills lost.   The real problem is that the Bills play a complicated, team defense.   It's built based on the talents of the players, and every player's role is designed both to allow him to play within his abilities and to benefit from the abilities of the players around him.  

 

In particular, the jobs of the average players in the defense are made easier by the quality of the best players around them.  For example, with White in the lineup, the Bills can shift players around and make do with Levi Wallace or Dane Jackson at #2.  With Hyde and Poyer in the lineup, the Bills can afford to let Edmunds roam in the passing zones, because the two safeties will help in the run defense.   With Edmunds in the lineup, all of the defensive backs have smaller zones to cover.  With Miller and Rousseau in the lineup, the defensive backs know they don't have to cover too long, and they can be more aggressive in man coverage.   It all works together.

 

So, what happened this season?  They start without White, so they're man-to-man options are more limited with Jackson and the rookies at corner.   They lose Hyde, so the run defense suffers, and Edmunds has to adjust to help against the run.   Then Poyer is down, then up, then down, and the defense gets readjusted.  Then Rousseau, then Miller.   Pretty much every week, the Bills have been adjusting and readjusting the assignments of every player on the defense, because a different talented guy they rely on has gone down.   They haven't played with the same defensive scheme for three weeks in a row, because they keep losing players who allow their current scheme to work.   

 

Think about it:  every week or two the Bills were trying to work an average NFL talent into the lineup to cover for a quality NFL talent, and they were trying to figure out how to get that average talent to play well when some other high level talent disappeared.   Every week they did that, they had to adjust their assignments, because the guy coming in couldn't do all the things the starter could do.   The latest is the pass defense with Edmunds gone from the middle.  With Klein playing, Milano and five DBs have to change how they play their position. An they've already changed when Hyde went down, and the changed when Poyer was out, and they changed when Milano was out.  It's been nonstop adjustments.  In some ways, they would have been better off if all the injuries had happened at the same time.  At least then they would have had 11 guys developing together into the same defense.   

 

What the Bills need to have happen now is for everyone to get back into the lineup.  Get White back, get Rousseau back, get Edmunds back, get Miller back, probably in that order.  Hyde would be a huge bonus, but I don't think that's happening.   If they could get those guys back in the next two or three weeks, then by the end of the season they'd be able to play the defensive scheme that they intended to play when the season began, instead of adjusting and readjusting, week after week after week to try to find ways that a bunch of ordinary players can play high-level defense.  

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3 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

The real problem is that the Bills play a complicated, team defense.   It's built based on the talents of the players, and every player's role is designed both to allow him to play within his abilities and to benefit from the abilities of the players around him. 

Coaching to talent does require attaining talent.

 

McBeane did, but, the cavalcade of injuries hurt.

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