GunnerBill Posted February 6, 2022 Share Posted February 6, 2022 1 minute ago, HappyDays said: Mahomes played very well against the Steelers but they stopped him on 6 consecutive drives to start the game because of their pass rush. That is how you beat every elite QB in NFL history. Rush 4 and get pressure, and turn the pressure into a sack or throwaway. Mahomes was unstoppable against us because we didn't have any finishers in the front 4. My actual ideal scenario for the 1st round is that we trade ours for a proven edge rusher, but I haven't seen any names that might be available. If there is a proven top tier edge rusher equivalent of Stefon Diggs out there that we can make work cap wise you would get no opposition from me to trading #25 (and a 4th) for him. I wouldn't trade a #1 for a guy nearer the end though because the wall tends to come quickly. It would have to be someone 26/27 who you are getting 3 or 4 seasons out of. I don't see a name that fits that criteria either to be honest. And failing that I think our best bet to improving the pass rush from the edge next year is a step forward from Groot and possibly an older guy who shakes free and is ring chasing who might take below market value to chase a ring. I've suggested Cam Jordan is one to keep an eye on in that regard but there may be others. One of my fellow British Bills fans that I converse with sometimes would be willing to throw another first round pick at an edge rusher in what is, admittedly, a better class than last year's. I'm a bit more sceptical on that front to be honest but I could be talked into it if the board looked a certain way when we got on the clock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsShredder83 Posted February 6, 2022 Share Posted February 6, 2022 I really want the offense to bring in a different skillet player than average size, elite route runner. No complaints for Gabe or Diggs, but I want a skill set we don't have. Would really like a HR hitter type... If that's not an option, a tall go up and get the ball receiver like Mike Williams or his type, would be a nice second prize. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blank Stare Posted February 6, 2022 Share Posted February 6, 2022 5 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: Cam Jordan is one to keep an eye on in that regard Cam Jordan can go F himself (but a talent like him would be nice). He’s gone on record saying he’d give a hard no to going to Buffalo. And this is since McBeane and Josh has been here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanoros Posted February 6, 2022 Share Posted February 6, 2022 59 minutes ago, Simon said: I don't think it's so much an issue of “D wins championships” as it is an issue that a lack of D can lose you championships. A single sack in the 4th qrtr could have changed the outcome of that game. I don't have an issue with the Bills bolstering their offense by making improvements on the OLine, but I think adding a dominant pass-rushing DE could be equally effective. It would be effective, but it’s the cost to get one that’s the crux of this line of thought. There may be a time we see Beane push all the chips into the middle of the table and go all in for a championship, but I don’t see that happening this offseason, probably not even for the next couple. Beane strikes me (from his actions) as the type who prefers to build a sustainably good team (I know some disagree with that philosophy and think it may never lead to a Super Bowl, but that appears to be the way Beane is going at this time). All in all, our defense isn’t bad at all and our d line gets pressure. We have three young de’s who are still developing (especially the two rooks). With our D as it is, we should have best KC, and it’s the strategy more than the players that lost us that game. About the WR’s, I’m intrigued to see who Beane picks up. Whether that’s McKenzie or others, because there are some interesting potential FA’s, and I’m sure there will be some wanting to take a chance playing with Allen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nextmanup Posted February 6, 2022 Share Posted February 6, 2022 (edited) 22 minutes ago, Doc said: We'll agree to disagree. I just can't see expecting the offense to have to score more than 36 points to win a game as sustainable. The SB is always going to be won by the team who can light up the score board. I said this a couple months ago when a lot of fans here were saying "rebuild the roster" and "we need to get tougher" and "we must build a running game." No, we must throw the ball even better than we do now and increase offense! If we don't win the SB in that manner, someone else will. Look who the Final 4 teams were and who's playing in the big show... A lot of folks here were jealous of teams like Indy and Tennessee with their "tough" build and strong running game...and at least 6 weeks ago, I commented that if you think either of those teams are going to win the SB you're insane... I wasn't wrong. Edited February 6, 2022 by Nextmanup 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyDays Posted February 6, 2022 Share Posted February 6, 2022 14 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: And failing that I think our best bet to improving the pass rush from the edge next year is a step forward from Groot and possibly an older guy who shakes free and is ring chasing who might take below market value to chase a ring. I've suggested Cam Jordan is one to keep an eye on in that regard but there may be others. I'll be the guy that throws out Clowney's name. He had a good year in Cleveland. Although he doesn't strike me as a ring chaser so if he's looking for one final big contract that's probably a no go. Chandler Jones maybe, but he worries me because of his age. I don’t know, it's just not a good FA year to need an edge rusher. To me it is by far the weakest spot on the roster. We basically need Rousseau to take a massive step to have even average production from the position. Epenesa hasn't shown anything beyond bottom of the roster talent and Basham has little upside. Hughes and Addison are another year older and Obada is nothing more than rotational depth. There's a scary scenario where Rousseau doesn't take a step and we are left with possibly the worst DE room in the NFL. No way we can sit on our hands with that position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted February 6, 2022 Share Posted February 6, 2022 3 minutes ago, TheProcess said: Cam Jordan can go F himself (but a talent like him would be nice). He’s gone on record saying he’d give a hard no to going to Buffalo. And this is since McBeane and Josh has been here. Fair enough I didn't know that. That is him off the list then by the looks of it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hondo in seattle Posted February 6, 2022 Share Posted February 6, 2022 1 hour ago, eball said: Couldn’t disagree more, re: not continuing to build the offense. Forget this “D wins championships” nonsense. The Bills are right there; they need to give Josh more weapons, not fewer. Lack of adjustments kept the Bills out of the Super Bowl, not lack of talent or lack of defense. Not counting special teams, a football games consists of two battles: (1) Our offense versus their defense (2) Our defense versus their offense Each is equally important. So, ideally, Beane will figure out how to make us better in both areas. But I'll add this, while both battles are equally important, not all players are. Obviously, the most important player on the battlefield is Josh. And he needs better bodyguards. That's what I'm most hoping for. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nextmanup Posted February 6, 2022 Share Posted February 6, 2022 10 minutes ago, BillsShredder83 said: I really want the offense to bring in a different skillet player than average size, elite route runner. No complaints for Gabe or Diggs, but I want a skill set we don't have. Would really like a HR hitter type... If that's not an option, a tall go up and get the ball receiver like Mike Williams or his type, would be a nice second prize. Gabe is proving to be that kind of player, and he's on the roster right now! I think the missing link we could use would be elite speed, but only if he is a good receiver first, and has elite speed second. And preferably not 5'9" tall. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted February 6, 2022 Share Posted February 6, 2022 1 minute ago, HappyDays said: I'll be the guy that throws out Clowney's name. He had a good year in Cleveland. Although he doesn't strike me as a ring chaser so if he's looking for one final big contract that's probably a no go. Chandler Jones maybe, but he worries me because of his age. I don’t know, it's just not a good FA year to need an edge rusher. To me it is by far the weakest spot on the roster. We basically need Rousseau to take a massive step to have even average production from the position. Epenesa hasn't shown anything beyond bottom of the roster talent and Basham has little upside. Hughes and Addison are another year older and Obada is nothing more than rotational depth. There's a scary scenario where Rousseau doesn't take a step and we are left with possibly the worst DE room in the NFL. No way we can sit on our hands with that position. I have always been a Clowney fan - he is a better player than most give him credit for - but he is seen as something of an underachiever because he hasn't quite hit the heights of a #1 overall pick (which is fair). But he has the same issue we already have to me. He isn't a natural finisher. He is a great edge setter, a brilliant run defender, and he does get pressure but he only really converts that pressure to sack production when he has another beast playing on the other side of the line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nextmanup Posted February 6, 2022 Share Posted February 6, 2022 Just now, GunnerBill said: I have always been a Clowney fan - he is a better player than most give him credit for - but he is seen as something of an underachiever because he hasn't quite hit the heights of a #1 overall pick (which is fair). But he has the same issue we already have to me. He isn't a natural finisher. He is a great edge setter, a brilliant run defender, and he does get pressure but he only really converts that pressure to sack production when he has another beast playing on the other side of the line. Wouldn't a guy like that cost a fortune? It's not the direction I would send a fortune on this roster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nbbillsfan Posted February 6, 2022 Share Posted February 6, 2022 Give me Kirk, James Washington or Gallup with Berrios or MVS as backup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted February 6, 2022 Share Posted February 6, 2022 4 minutes ago, Nextmanup said: Wouldn't a guy like that cost a fortune? It's not the direction I would send a fortune on this roster. He isn't the direction I'd go either. If the Bills are bringing in an edge rusher it needs to be a proven finisher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LABILLBACKER Posted February 6, 2022 Share Posted February 6, 2022 We don't have the money anyway and even if we did we need to find a real pass rusher. Not this nonsense like Murphy or Addison. I would love a 4.29 wr like Hill but those aren't available. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted February 6, 2022 Share Posted February 6, 2022 1 hour ago, ScottLaw said: And the argument is a legitimate one that the coaches failed the defense…. The Bengals, after being almost run out of the building in the first half, made adjustments defensively the Chiefs had no answers for…. McD and Frazier consistently miss the boat on making adjustments…. Id love them to go out and get a dominant pass rusher, but let’s not sit here and act like they haven’t invested a ***** ton into the defense already. I guess we can continue to just let Allen carry the offense. I don’t get this reference “let Josh Allen carry the offense” when what is being discussed is adding more WRs. Who throws the ball to the WR? Allen right, so how does that take some responsibility off of Allen? If you want to take some pressure and weight off Allen, invest in the OL to give him more protection and a better run game. And yes, you need to invest into your weakness if you want to get better. I agree though, coaches, specifically our coordinators, let this team down. Daboll called a weak first 35 minutes of that game, Frazier muffed the defensive scheme down the stretch, and don’t get me started on how a professional ST coach fails to tell his kicker what the kick type was called. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChans Posted February 6, 2022 Share Posted February 6, 2022 31 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: If there is a proven top tier edge rusher equivalent of Stefon Diggs out there that we can make work cap wise you would get no opposition from me to trading #25 (and a 4th) for him. I wouldn't trade a #1 for a guy nearer the end though because the wall tends to come quickly. It would have to be someone 26/27 who you are getting 3 or 4 seasons out of. I don't see a name that fits that criteria either to be honest. And failing that I think our best bet to improving the pass rush from the edge next year is a step forward from Groot and possibly an older guy who shakes free and is ring chasing who might take below market value to chase a ring. I've suggested Cam Jordan is one to keep an eye on in that regard but there may be others. One of my fellow British Bills fans that I converse with sometimes would be willing to throw another first round pick at an edge rusher in what is, admittedly, a better class than last year's. I'm a bit more sceptical on that front to be honest but I could be talked into it if the board looked a certain way when we got on the clock. It extremely bothers me that the Bengals got to the Super Bowl by rebuilding their DL with guys that we pursued. They grabbed Reader and Hendrickson, and both of those dudes have been GREAT. They would have been great here and we had a lot of interest in both. Just sad. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LABILLBACKER Posted February 6, 2022 Share Posted February 6, 2022 1 hour ago, BigdaddyinOrlando said: If not retaining McKenzie can see them possibly taking a shot on Berrios of the jets, returner and slot type weapon. This team has no returner right now and I don't think they want to stick Micah on punts long term. I like Berrios or Patterson. Whoever has the lower cap hit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Success Posted February 6, 2022 Share Posted February 6, 2022 1 hour ago, eball said: Couldn’t disagree more, re: not continuing to build the offense. Forget this “D wins championships” nonsense. The Bills are right there; they need to give Josh more weapons, not fewer. Lack of adjustments kept the Bills out of the Super Bowl, not lack of talent or lack of defense. We don't have a pass rush, really. I'd call that a lack of defense. We really need that, imo. I don't think many teams win the SB without that. The Rams have it this year much more than the Bengals, and I think it will dictate that game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColoradoBills Posted February 6, 2022 Share Posted February 6, 2022 5 minutes ago, ScottLaw said: Bills were the worst YAC team offensively in the league…. They need help at wide out along with the offensive line of course. Could there be an argument made that the play designs minimized YAC? I'm not saying it's the only reason just asking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billykay Posted February 6, 2022 Share Posted February 6, 2022 1 hour ago, NastyNateSoldiers said: I never thought they gave him the chance he deserved nor did they use him according to his skills set. Washington can run after the catch and it always seems like they were having him run deep fly routes. I’m interested also in Will Fuller . Adding Fuller speed to this offense would take us to another level. He needs to rebuild his stock so we can get him relatively cheap. Diggs, Gabe and Fuller would just be dangerous for opposing defenses. We also can start using Diggs more in the slot where he can be nearly as unguardable as Coop Kupp Fuller is a walking hamstring. It seems like every year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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