2000 Bills Team Question

[Enemarty]

It's been a long time, but one thing stands out - Ralph!  

 

After staying more in the background during the 90s, he decided to reassert himself after the forward pass (and of course, before that game).  It's really too bad, as I would like to have seen what Wade could have done with that team, especially if we would have still picked up Bledsoe.  The defense would have been great and with a quarterback that could score, i.e., not be streaky Johnson or half-season Flutie, we might have had something.  

[corta765]

6 minutes ago, Enemarty said:

It's been a long time, but one thing stands out - Ralph!  

 

After staying more in the background during the 90s, he decided to reassert himself after the forward pass (and of course, before that game).  It's really too bad, as I would like to have seen what Wade could have done with that team, especially if we would have still picked up Bledsoe.  The defense would have been great and with a quarterback that could score, i.e., not be streaky Johnson or half-season Flutie, we might have had something.  

Sadly Ralph's greatest flaw was his inability at points to step back and let others do their job. Especially at the end the game itself had passed him by, business wise I think he actually still had a good pulse for that. The Raiders had the same problem with Al as the sport itself had changed and he was trying to do what worked in the past.

[RJ (not THAT RJ)]

Just now, corta765 said:

Sadly Ralph's greatest flaw was his inability at points to step back and let others do their job. Especially at the end the game itself had passed him by, business wise I think he actually still had a good pulse for that. The Raiders had the same problem with Al as the sport itself had changed and he was trying to do what worked in the past.

 

I know blaming Raplh's meddling is a common story, but you all should remember that the entire plan with hiring Donohoe was based on Ralph stepping back and letting a "real football guy" run the show. TD was named Team President and everything, to the universal acclaim of all sports writers and not a few people on TBD. So, be careful what you wish for....

 

[BADOLBILZ]

 

The horrendous Ronnie Jones special teams really killed them all season.    It's hard to understate that.......it was a nightmare.

 

But they should have been a playoff team just because of their defensive identity alone...........they were a violent, intimidating bunch on that side of the ball and that should have been good for 10 wins in the league that season.

 

They were again undermined by their QB situation that year though because the gifted and "explosive when motivated" Rob Johnson was too inconsistent and lacking the natural internal drive to be excellent to be just "handed" a full time starting role and Flutie was a nightmare change-of-pace QB for defenses but a truly horrendous pure pocket passing QB, the original "make him be a quarterback" QB, so any sh*t team could beat him by just containing him in the pocket.

 

At this point their shortcoming were set in stone after two full years of proof........the Bills basically had both halves of a stud QB but their wishy-washy, zero-attention-to-detail head coach was too weak to alternate them the way a strong HC like Bill Parcells or Don Shula would have in the same unusual situation.  

[corta765]

9 minutes ago, RJ (not THAT RJ) said:

 

I know blaming Raplh's meddling is a common story, but you all should remember that the entire plan with hiring Donohoe was based on Ralph stepping back and letting a "real football guy" run the show. TD was named Team President and everything, to the universal acclaim of all sports writers and not a few people on TBD. So, be careful what you wish for....

 

 

Oh I don't disagree with that at all and you are right virtually everyone said it was great move. The problem was more after it failed he refused to ever go that route again until wayyyyy too late. Also he was cheap paying coaches for a long time.

3 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

They were again undermined by their QB situation that year though because the gifted and "explosive when motivated" Rob Johnson was too inconsistent and lacking the natural internal drive

 

Read the piece on Johnson that was done I believe in the players tribune or by tim graham. Changed my outlook on him alot, he actually knew Flutie was the favored guy and would've preferred the team just let him leave. Also his shoulder got badly messed up that forever destroyed his ability to throw the same. I was always team Flutie, but after reading the article I came around to at least respect Johnson far more and think he's a decent dude.

[TheBrownBear]

I remember us being a pretty good team, probably close to on par with the '99 squad, and then our defense was hit with a bunch of key injuries - most notably Cowart - in the Tampa Bay game (I think we were 7-4 or 7-5 heading into it).  We actually dominated Tampa yardage-wise that day, but had some key turnovers and gave up a special teams touchdown.  Johnson had actually played respectable up to that point in the season and in that game, but it was all downhill from there.   I remember us getting absolutely annihilated the following week at the Ralph by Miami in a game where Johnson showed his full ineptitude and then the season was basically over (and Wade said as much in his presser that week).

[Albany,n.y.]

1 hour ago, Freddie's Dead said:

Wade continued the mistake of starting Scrub Johnson, which basically flushed the season down the turlet.  Firing Bruce DeHaven as the scapegoat for the Music City Forward Pass and hiring the inexperienced and incompetent "Pump it Up" Ronnie Jones as the new Special Teams coach caused the Bills Best Special Teams in the NFL to plunge to the absolute bottom.  Flutie could not handle playing behind an inferior QB, and ripped the team apart because he should have been starting and wasn't.  After the season ended, Wade refused to fire Ronnie Jones (he rolled over on starting Johnson in the Wild Card game, and rolled over on firing DeHaven, but he drew the line at firing Ronnie Jones ).  Ralph promptly fired Wade (or did he resign?  We may never know.), and proceeded to make arguably the worst hire in Bills coaching history, Gregggggggggggggggggggggggggg "The Bullhorn" Williams.  And the drought was on.

Gregg wasn't anywhere near the worst coaching hires.  Jim Ringo, Harvey Johnson & my all time favorite for worst coaching hire ever, Hank Bullough, make Gregg look competent.  Honorable mention to John Rauch as another worse than Gregg.

Edited January 7, 2022 by Albany,n.y.

[Freddie's Dead]

13 minutes ago, Albany,n.y. said:

Gregg wasn't anywhere near the worst coaching hires.  Jim Ringo, Harvey Johnson & my all time favorite for worst coaching hire ever, Hank Bullough, make Gregg look competent.  Honorable mention to John Rauch as another worse than Gregg.

Hank Bullough is up there, but records don't define how bad a coach Greggggggg Williams was.  Remember "we're going to bring a defense here like you've never seen"?  He promptly did, as the Bills had one of the worst defenses in the NFL in his first year.  Hank Bullough was a retiring know-nothing, but Gregggggggggggg Williams was a pompous know-it-all blowhard.  That makes him the worst in my book.

Edited January 7, 2022 by Freddie's Dead

[T master]

The roster for the 2000 team was still pretty good as far as players went i think Ralph did the same thing he did with Saban & thought he knew more about football than the people he hired to do the job and subsequently screwed the pooch !! 

 

That put Flutie in a place after he got screwed the season before of not caring & bitching about it which i feel he had a huge point in that argument and by Ralph making that decision put all the rest of the players at odds on where the team was headed & possibly second guessing Wade .

 

The rest is history and a lot of bad that followed i think some coaches after seeing what happened probably didn't want anything to do with a Bills team that the owner would't allow them to dot he job they were hired to do .

 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/buf/2000_roster.htm

Edited January 7, 2022 by T master

[Billy Claude]

1 hour ago, smuvtalker said:

A theory definitely not easy to debunk....aside from Sammy Morris, I don't distinctly remember any of these other Bills to have done much.  I remember hearing how Avion Black had real potential, Leif Larsen was supposedly like the strongest player at the combine, and how Eric Flowers was this speed dem.....er...excuse me I'm gonna be sick

 

Wilson had tried to extend Butler during the summer of 2000 but Butler turned him down, so it was pretty clear Butler knew he was leaving and

I think Erik Flowers was widely being considered a huge reach post-draft even before playing a down.

 

[RJ (not THAT RJ)]

1 hour ago, Billy Claude said:

 

Wilson had tried to extend Butler during the summer of 2000 but Butler turned him down, so it was pretty clear Butler knew he was leaving and

I think Erik Flowers was widely being considered a huge reach post-draft even before playing a down.

 

 

Spanos at SD clearly tampered with Butler... letting him know the GM job was his with high draft picks and a great ceiling. Of course, Butler did nothing with it, because he had only ever cruised in the wake of Polian's success. 

[CA OC Bills Fan]

My memory without fact checking anything:

- The defense was insane. They had not just lost Cowart, but I believe it was four significant season ending injuries during the TB game.

- I have a feeling I'm mixing this up with a different year, but Wade converted from 3-4 to 4-3 midweek and kept it completely under wraps until the start of the next game against the Colts. The defense still was dominant.

- Special teams was, as others stated, an all time worst. 

- Never heard that Ralph meddled to force DeHaven to be fired after the Music City Forward Lateral, Wade insisted that it was his plan all along to replace him with "his guy", incompetent coach / part time sex offender Ronnie Jones.

- Ralph did insist Jones to be fired after the season. Wade wanted to switch him to a defensive coach and stated that Ralph was looking for an excuse to fire him, if he had complied he would have come up with new demands. We'll never know about this but personally, if Jones stayed anywhere near that team I think there would have been a total fan revolt. I remember seeing an interview with Christie sometime after that saying that Jones had no idea of setting up ST plays, what types of drills to run during practices, etc.

[buffblue]

5 minutes ago, CA OC Bills Fan said:

My memory without fact checking anything:

- The defense was insane. They had not just lost Cowart, but I believe it was four significant season ending injuries during the TB game.

- I have a feeling I'm mixing this up with a different year, but Wade converted from 3-4 to 4-3 midweek and kept it completely under wraps until the start of the next game against the Colts. The defense still was dominant.

- Special teams was, as others stated, an all time worst. 

- Never heard that Ralph meddled to force DeHaven to be fired after the Music City Forward Lateral, Wade insisted that it was his plan all along to replace him with "his guy", incompetent coach / part time sex offender Ronnie Jones.

- Ralph did insist Jones to be fired after the season. Wade wanted to switch him to a defensive coach and stated that Ralph was looking for an excuse to fire him, if he had complied he would have come up with new demands. We'll never know about this but personally, if Jones stayed anywhere near that team I think there would have been a total fan revolt. I remember seeing an interview with Christie sometime after that saying that Jones had no idea of setting up ST plays, what types of drills to run during practices, etc.

Cowart was an absolute beast. When he went down it was a gut punch.

 

I remember that TB game clearly and how it sent the Bills into a tailspin. Turning point of the season no doubt

[boco357]

3 hours ago, Livinginthepast said:

I went to the Tennessee rematch game at the Ralph which was on Sunday night football to start that season. My friend had bought tickets but the Bills had lost them in the mail, so they replaced them with some really nice seats about 3 rows up from the sideline at about the 10 yard line. Best fan experience ever at the Ralph that day.  The other memories I have from that season are that the Bills should have been much better than they were and the team blew so many opportunities.  The loss to Minnesota away was a gut punch because the Bills played really well in that game but blew it at the end.  There were a couple of other close losses as well. I also remember Wade seemingly giving up on the season even though we were still alive. Saying something like "we're pretty much out of it" which although realistic was unforgivable for a HC to say. At the end of the season people were calling for Wade's head which was stupid then and in retrospect a terrible move by the organization. The next year, the wheels came off with a terrible new coach, GM and awful uniforms.

Opening night was insanity vs the Titans!

[corta765]

18 minutes ago, boco357 said:

Opening night was insanity vs the Titans!

I remember my dad put the TV outside which back in the days of super heavy TV's and no streaming was not a small thing to watch the game. Next morning he told me the Bills won but literally almost blew it again. I watched the 1st quarter with him and you could see it was raucous there.

[Buffalo716]

4 hours ago, corta765 said:

 

Haha so going to UB football games he is proudly listed as one of their drafted alumni. I cannot ever remember him suiting up a game for the Bills. Namiean Roosevelt I at least remember making some plays and having some time in the sun

Drew Haddad was a bulls legends way before Namaan

[corta765]

3 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

Drew Haddad was a bulls legends way before Namaan

THE ORIGINAL!

[CSBill]

5 hours ago, Freddie's Dead said:

Wade continued the mistake of starting Scrub Johnson, which basically flushed the season down the turlet.  Firing Bruce DeHaven as the scapegoat for the Music City Forward Pass and hiring the inexperienced and incompetent "Pump it Up" Ronnie Jones as the new Special Teams coach caused the Bills Best Special Teams in the NFL to plunge to the absolute bottom.  Flutie could not handle playing behind an inferior QB, and ripped the team apart because he should have been starting and wasn't.  After the season ended, Wade refused to fire Ronnie Jones (he rolled over on starting Johnson in the Wild Card game, and rolled over on firing DeHaven, but he drew the line at firing Ronnie Jones ).  Ralph promptly fired Wade (or did he resign?  We may never know.), and proceeded to make arguably the worst hire in Bills coaching history, Gregggggggggggggggggggggggggg "The Bullhorn" Williams.  And the drought was on.

 

And there it is, spot on, nothng more needs to be said.

 

1 hour ago, Buffalo716 said:

Drew Haddad was a bulls legends way before Namaan

 

I have Drew's autograph from traning camp that year. .... I'll sell it to the highest bidder, make me an offer.

 

 

Edited January 7, 2022 by CSBill

[dave mcbride]

4 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

The horrendous Ronnie Jones special teams really killed them all season.    It's hard to understate that.......it was a nightmare.

 

But they should have been a playoff team just because of their defensive identity alone...........they were a violent, intimidating bunch on that side of the ball and that should have been good for 10 wins in the league that season.

 

They were again undermined by their QB situation that year though because the gifted and "explosive when motivated" Rob Johnson was too inconsistent and lacking the natural internal drive to be excellent to be just "handed" a full time starting role and Flutie was a nightmare change-of-pace QB for defenses but a truly horrendous pure pocket passing QB, the original "make him be a quarterback" QB, so any sh*t team could beat him by just containing him in the pocket.

 

At this point their shortcoming were set in stone after two full years of proof........the Bills basically had both halves of a stud QB but their wishy-washy, zero-attention-to-detail head coach was too weak to alternate them the way a strong HC like Bill Parcells or Don Shula would have in the same unusual situation.  

The thing is, Flutie played really well in 2000 (in the five games he started). For all of his flaws, they were an 11 win team with him in there. Johnson was horrible that season. Flutie's numbers were better than what it seems given that he put up bad numbers in the two Dolphins games after they were out of hand and he went in to replace Johnson, who had been sacked out of both games. Take away those two garbage time outings, and he had a rating of 92.8, which in 2000 was really good. RJ was sacked at a 13.8 percent rate that year (49 times on only 355 dropbacks!!), which is just unacceptable (Flutie was 4.1 percent). I do think the STs cost them too -- they were really that bad -- but if I had to pick one thing, I'd say it was the sack-taking by Johnson. It killed so many drives.  Again, 49 times on 355 dropbacks. That was a nightmare to watch. 

Edited January 7, 2022 by dave mcbride

[Buffalo716]

16 minutes ago, CSBill said:

 

And there it is, spot on, nothng more needs to be said.

 

 

I have Drew's autograph from traning camp that year. .... I'll sell it to the highest bidder, make me an offer.

 

 

I'm sure it's worth $10 lol