All-22 Grades for Bills/Panthers (The Athletic)

[billsherd]

That note about Dane Jackson is so true, that as more game tape is out on him teams will target him and he will have to come through.

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

1 hour ago, billsherd said:

That note about Dane Jackson is so true, that as more game tape is out on him teams will target him and he will have to come through.

i think teams already knew he plays very aggressively and is prone to double moves. He hasn’t been burned yet, and the game where that was the most serious risk was the TB game. 
 

Maybe Mac gets him on one this week— but the fact that Dane gets so aggressive on the short routes that the patriots love to run makes

me think there is an equally good chance Dane will make a big play this week. 

[BuffaloBillyG]

2 hours ago, nedboy7 said:

 

PFF had Edmunds as the 4th highest grade on the team.  So maybe everyone is just full of ***** other than the Edmunds bashers.  You watched the video right? before you claim Joe B isn't qualified to analyze his play. 

 

 

 

 

 

Hey, calm the hormones, little one. I'm actually a fan of Edwards. I was talking about Joe here. Put the pitchfork down before you give yourself a flesh wound.

 

If you wish to defend Joe's analysis...other then it being favorable to your train of thought, could you possibly list his qualifications? Could you talk some about the criteria he uses to come up with his grades?  And why is it that PFF is so terrible when they have, say Tre White listed very low...but they are ok when they say Edmunds is good? 

 

 

[Punching Bag]

5 hours ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

 

It takes him three days to publish his results and grades.  Many posters here already have grades on the players before the game is even finished.  I supposed they'd try and tell you it's because they are so much smarter.

 

Well at least they are not Jerry Sullivans who used to write game reviews before game even played.

[Freddie's Dead]

5 hours ago, 34-78-83 said:

Apparently somehow this was missed when posted above ... err something

 

 

 

Butbutbut....Edmunds sucks.  It says so in the Pro Bowl thread....

[JMF2006]

12 hours ago, Buffalo Bills Fan said:

So glad Harrison Philips doing well.  Might be stepping around the corner.

 

On a bad knee too.

[JMF2006]

11 hours ago, No Place To Hyde said:

In fairness Joe B isn't a "real analyist" of anything. He's never worked in or done any kind of that worked. He really doesn't make known what his criteria is, how or why he grades.

 

In short he watches the All-22 and has an opinion. Not any different than what happens on these boards. Only he writes an article for clicks and content.

 

The film doesn't lie....it happened and we can see it.

 

I don't understand all the hate....this guy is still very young and still learning his craft.

 

He is going to be a superstar in the next few years

[dave mcbride]

10 hours ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

 

It takes him three days to publish his results and grades.  Many posters here already have grades on the players before the game is even finished.  I supposed they'd try and tell you it's because they are so much smarter.

A lot have final grades right after the first offensive and defensive series of the game!

[Thurman#1]

12 hours ago, D. L. Hot-Flamethrower said:

Another week, another All Pro performance by Jerry Hughes per Joe B. Dude is still going strong at 34.

 

FYI, Joe B. loves him some Jerry, only a B this week, usually at least a B+.

 

Amazing, what a couple tackles a week can get you.

 

 

 

 

Yeah, what a surprise - to some - that a player might influence other plays than the ones on which he made the tackle.

 

Joe has Hughes as his 12th highest rated player on the Bills for the year. So it ain't like he loves him some Jerry. It's like he's grading him reasonably well, which is what pretty much everyone says. He is dropping off with age, but still playing pretty well.

 

You act like Joe is the only one saying Hughes is having a pretty good year, though not a great one. He's not. Cover one says the same thing, so does everyone, really.

[D. L. Hot-Flamethrower]

2 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Yeah, what a surprise - to some - that a player might influence other plays than the ones on which he made the tackle.

 

Joe has Hughes as his 12th highest rated player on the Bills for the year. So it ain't like he loves him some Jerry. It's like he's grading him reasonably well, which is what pretty much everyone says. He is dropping off with age, but still playing pretty well.

 

You act like Joe is the only one saying Hughes is having a pretty good year, though not a great one. He's not. Cover one says the same thing, so does everyone, really.

Looking for a fight. Don't get so emotional Mrs. Hughes.

[Thurman#1]

12 hours ago, No Place To Hyde said:

In fairness Joe B isn't a "real analyist" of anything. He's never worked in or done any kind of that worked. He really doesn't make known what his criteria is, how or why he grades.

 

In short he watches the All-22 and has an opinion. Not any different than what happens on these boards. Only he writes an article for clicks and content.

 

 

Wrong in several ways. He doesn't write articles for clicks. He's on a pay site. You don't get to read him unless you pay. Clicks don't matter to the Athletic. Subscriptions do.

 

He absolutely does make known what his criteria and his method is, every week, in every All-22 article. It's at the bottom in the section called "How the Standards work." And he does freely acknowledge that he doesn't know the play calls or full responsibilities

 

He certainly is a real analyst. Analysts watch and analyze, and it's fair to expect them to analyze deeply and painstakingly. That's what he does. And Joe does more than watch the All-22 and have an opinion. He watches and grades every player. He watches far more in depth than people on this board like you and me.

 

It's still fair enough to disagree with him, of course. But Joe works at it and spends an amount of time watching and breaking down tape that puts to shame nearly all fans, though there are a small handful of folks on here that might watch as much or even more.

 

 

12 minutes ago, D. L. Hot-Flamethrower said:

Looking for a fight. Don't get so emotional Mrs. Hughes.

 

 

Thoughtful response, with tons of evidence. Just as much meat as your first post on the subject.

Edited December 23, 2021 by Thurman#1

[BuffaloBillyG]

1 hour ago, JMF2006 said:

 

The film doesn't lie....it happened and we can see it.

 

I don't understand all the hate....this guy is still very young and still learning his craft.

 

He is going to be a superstar in the next few years

 A few things:

 

1. As I said above I'm actually an Edmunds supporter. My comment wasn't about Edmunds it was about Joe...gentle reminder that he isn't any kind of a qualified expert and it is just an opinion of his.

 

2. Film in fact does lie. Not for the players or coaches...but for the you and I's of the world. We may "think" we know what's happening but unless you have direct knowledge of what is being asked and what a player many be told impromptu on the sideline...it's pure conjecture. 

 

I find it hysterical that Edmunds supporters use BOTH those 2 topics when Joe give him a bad grade....yet when the grade is good no one can mention it. It's the same with PFF. They are credible when the grades are good...a hack e v a l when they are bad. The world is just a giant echo chamber.

[BuffaloBillyG]

16 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Wrong in several ways. He doesn't write articles for clicks. He's on a pay site. You don't get to read him unless you pay. Clicks don't matter to the Athletic. Subscriptions do.

 

He absolutely does make known what his criteria and his method is, every week, in every All-22 article. It's at the bottom in the section called "How the Standards work." And he does freely acknowledge that he doesn't know the play calls or full responsibilities

 

He certainly is a real analyst. Analysts watch and analyze, and it's fair to expect them to analyze deeply and painstakingly. That's what he does. And Joe does more than watch the All-22 and have an opinion. He watches and grades every player. He watches far more in depth than people on this board like you and me.

 

It's still fair enough to disagree with him, of course. But Joe works at it and spends an amount of time watching and breaking down tape that puts to shame nearly all fans, though there are a small handful of folks on here that might watch as much or even more.

 

 

 

 

Thoughtful response, with tons of evidence. Just as much meat as your first post on the subject.

How do people read the Atheletic? Right...they click a link. How do people sub? Right...they click a link. What an absolutely asinine hair to split.

 

The point you try and make that is bolded is completely your opinion. Based on..stuff. 

 

He does more than watch and have an opinion because he watches....and gives an opinion on everyone. Without knowledge of the play called and responsibilities...you cannot accurately analyze what it shows. Frankly, as well, using All-22 is a dream come true for fans but it is extremely misleading. Small things that we can see "on film" are not the reality of what a player sees 1st hand on the field. 

[Thurman#1]

29 minutes ago, No Place To Hyde said:

 A few things:

 

1. As I said above I'm actually an Edmunds supporter. My comment wasn't about Edmunds it was about Joe...gentle reminder that he isn't any kind of a qualified expert and it is just an opinion of his.

 

2. Film in fact does lie. Not for the players or coaches...but for the you and I's of the world. We may "think" we know what's happening but unless you have direct knowledge of what is being asked and what a player many be told impromptu on the sideline...it's pure conjecture. 

 

I find it hysterical that Edmunds supporters use BOTH those 2 topics when Joe give him a bad grade....yet when the grade is good no one can mention it. It's the same with PFF. They are credible when the grades are good...a hack e v a l when they are bad. The world is just a giant echo chamber.

 

 

"Pure conjecture"? That's utter nonsense.

 

If it were true, teams wouldn't bother wasting time by watching film on the teams they're playing next week. Why bother with "pure conjecture"?

 

The obvious answer is of course that it's anything but pure conjecture. Most of it is pretty obvious. It's not hard to see what a guy is trying to do. That's why they show instant replay. It is instantly helpful in understanding what happened, and careful tape study is much more so.

 

Are there bits and pieces we can't fully understand? Sure. That's why Joe for one, and really everyone in the media doing much tape analysis, points out the limitations.

 

But anyone can see with a bit of work most of what goes on any given play ... after the fact. It's not just football, it's life. When you go back and look at what happened you can learn a ton and understand most of what happened. There'll be a few things that aren't clear or easily subject to analysis. But most of it you can understand just fine.

Edited December 23, 2021 by Thurman#1

[Thurman#1]

20 minutes ago, No Place To Hyde said:

How do people read the Atheletic? Right...they click a link. How do people sub? Right...they click a link. What an absolutely asinine hair to split.

 

The point you try and make that is bolded is completely your opinion. Based on..stuff. 

 

He does more than watch and have an opinion because he watches....and gives an opinion on everyone. Without knowledge of the play called and responsibilities...you cannot accurately analyze what it shows. Frankly, as well, using All-22 is a dream come true for fans but it is extremely misleading. Small things that we can see "on film" are not the reality of what a player sees 1st hand on the field. 

 

 

And yet more complete balderdash. How do people read the Athletic?

 

Most of them can't. Because they haven't subscribed. Most of the people in the world can search for Joe's content and click and click and click, millions of times if they feel like wasting their time that way, and they won't be able to get through and read the article.

 

In other words, the Athletic refuses clicks. It's their business strategy. Until you've paid. Businesses that depend on clicks are thrilled to let you through, as the more clicks they get the more money they make. They don't turn down clicks the way that pay sites do. TheAthletic writers get paid based on how good the editors feel they are at getting people to subscribe and stay subscribed (which is they every article has a chance for every reader to rate it right at the finish.

 

Sites that allow free access are going for clicks, some more than others. The Athletic's business model is simply different. It is not based on clicks, it is based on subscriptions.

 

As for the stuff you bolded, it does an excellent job of pointing out what you are just not getting here. There's a name for people that watch and give their opinion. Hundreds of them, really. Bystanders. Blatherers. Observers. Gasbags, windbags and blowhards. Posters. Talkers. Fans. The thing that separates an analyst is right there in the word. Analysts analyze. And Joe watches tape and analyzes an awful lot more than you do. Or me. Or nearly all of us here. People pay money for Joe's analysis. Does anyone pay for your opinions or mine? Doesn't mean you have to agree with the guy, but he puts in a ton of work and thought, and he is good enough at it to get paid.

 

And again, you're completely misled about the All-22. There are indeed a few subtleties and bits that are unclear. Most of what happens is really clear. The things we see on film are exactly and precisely the reality of what a player sees. There is a difference in angle of perspective, but other than that, it's the same. Clearer, in fact, because players are playing on the same level surface and may block each other, whereas cameras filming from above are blocked much much less.

 

All you have to do is watch a bit of active film analysis like Cover One. They'll point out what they can't be sure of, but most of it's obvious.

Edited December 23, 2021 by Thurman#1

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

5 hours ago, dave mcbride said:

A lot have final grades right after the first offensive and defensive series of the game!

 

Thought it was during the Anthem!

[bigduke6]

hold on hold on,  Edmunds is a Blitzing powerhouse?  cmon....

[FilthyBeast]

18 hours ago, Buffalo Bills Fan said:

So glad Harrison Philips doing well.  Might be stepping around the corner.

 

I still wouldn't resign him to any type of big money, but I fear that's exactly what an inept GM like Beane will do.

 

This team needs a true beast in the middle of the defensive line or we'll never see guys like Oliver and other undersized DE's this team seems to covet flourish.

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

18 hours ago, Buffalo Bills Fan said:

So glad Harrison Philips doing well.  Might be stepping around the corner.

i wonder if his knees are finally ok and hes gonna keep getting better.

[billsfan89]

All-22 showing up to be pretty in line with the eye test. Hoping H.Phillips can have another good game against the Pats we desperately need to win the line of scrimmage.