Democracy’s Fiery Ordeal: The War in Ukraine 🇺🇦

[SCBills]

54 minutes ago, John Adams said:

 

A Rasmussen poll that finds people don’t support a Democrat. You paste the most insightful things. 

Hes doing so well in all the other polls… obviously this must be an outlier…

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

48 minutes ago, OrangeBills said:

 

Correct. 

 

Leftist Europe and the United States should not have adopted idiotic Energy policies over the last 1-10 years.

 

The Western Libs about to learn a hard lesson

Its a hard lesson to keep relearning. The world is filled with violent ambitious people and countries. 
 

pacifists just aren’t going to overcome human nature.  
 

 

[Tiberius]

8 hours ago, OrangeBills said:

 

Correct. 

 

Leftist Europe and the United States should not have adopted idiotic Energy policies over the last 1-10 years.

 

The Western Libs about to learn a hard lesson

Increased fuel economy standards were a good idea. And if we were more along on electric vehicles we’d be better off. 

7 hours ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

Its a hard lesson to keep relearning. The world is filled with violent ambitious people and countries. 
 

pacifists just aren’t going to overcome human nature.  
 

 

Good reason to get off the oil economy as best we can. People have been trying 

[harryS]

9 hours ago, B-Man said:

 

Fifty-four percent of likely voters do not believe Joe Biden’s response to the Ukraine crisis has been effective, according to a new Rasmussen survey released Thursday, showing only 40 percent think the president has acted effectively.

 

The survey also revealed that only 26 percent of voters “believe economic sanctions will be enough to stop Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, while 48% think the United States and its allies will have to intervene with military force to stop the invasion.”

 

https://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/current_events/russia/ukraine_54_of_voters_say_biden_s_response_to_russian_invasion_is_ineffective

 

 

 

man, hopefully these 48% don't actually support that though.

[Big Blitz]

Bruh....."wake up" and do what?  This is a woke matter now.  It might be lib editorializing bc I don't see that quote here - but it's in the headline.  

 

 

 

Zelensky implores the world to 'wake up' as Russia attacks Europe's largest nuclear plant, addressing 'everyone who knows the word Chernobyl'

 

 

Zelensky's plea came as a building fire broke out during a fierce fight between Russian and Ukrainian troops near the Ukrainian nuclear plant Zaporizhzhia. The facility is the largest nuclear plant in Europe.

 

"I address all Ukrainians, all Europeans, everyone who knows the word 'Chernobyl,' everyone who knows how many victims that explosion of a nuclear plant brought," Zelensky said in Ukrainian. 

 

"Russia wants to relive it and is already doing it," he added.

 

https://www.businessinsider.com/russia-attacks-nuclear-plant-zelensky-world-wake-up-chernobyl-2022-3

 

[ComradeKayAdams]

9 hours ago, OrangeBills said:

Correct. 

Leftist Europe and the United States should not have adopted idiotic Energy policies over the last 1-10 years.

The Western Libs about to learn a hard lesson

 

Um…sorta. Lessons abound for all! Let’s discuss:

 

What the left can learn:

 

1. The value of nuclear: Germany and most far-lefties should talk to France about it…the benefits, the costs, the technical risks, etc. They will feel much better about nuclear after this long conversation with the French. If Germany hadn’t abandoned nuclear after Fukushima, Europe as a whole wouldn’t be nearly as dependent on Russian fossil fuels as they currently are.

 

What the right can learn:

 

My goodness…where do I start…

 

1. Basic import/export facts: Russia makes up only a small percent (~7%?) of our total fossil fuel imports. Canada is our #1 exporter by far. Also, U.S. fossil fuel production has never gone down since Biden took office. Furthermore, no additional global fossil fuel production is necessary in order to facilitate cutting Russia off from the international energy trade market. A complete rerouting of the current trade market would suffice. If you don’t believe me, look up global import/export data for each major country and play around with the arithmetic for yourselves.

2. Keystone pipeline: It was always going to take several years to come online, so it’s not a viable solution for either the current Russia-Ukraine fiasco or the current COVID-related cost-push inflation fiasco.

3. Drilling permits: There’s no need to issue new ones when fossil fuel corporations already have an abundance of sea/land plots that are currently untouched.

4. Nationalization of energy: Lots of right-wingers want Biden to take firm control of the situation and alter our country’s energy trade market. Fine…but keep in mind that U.S. energy is controlled by private corporations, so you are technically advocating for at least a temporary “socialization” of the national energy sector.

5. Energy independence: You are free to prioritize this aspiration if you wish, but keep in mind that U.S. energy will continue to be a tradable private commodity on the global market. Therefore, it will continue to be subject to the global market whims of energy supply/demand laws, a.k.a. global cost fluctuations.

6. The many tentacles of the U.S. oligarchy: The most important point for righties to understand because it undergirds much of contemporary American politics, especially as it pertains to energy commerce. The fossil fuel corporate oligarchs have propagandized you to think that anthropogenic global warming is even a scientific debate. The manufacturing industry oligarchs are behind ridiculous Supreme Court cases like WVA v. EPA, which aims to undermine the practical federal power to regulate pollution. U.S. corporate oligarchs of all stripes have colluded to ensure opacity in international commerce transactions, which makes federal sanction impositions much more difficult to enforce (relative to the rest of the industrialized countries that comprise the West). I could go on and on with this subcategory, but you probably get the point…

 

What both the left and the right can learn:

 

1. Long-term planning: Everyone in the West should have started much sooner with renewables. Ideally, we all should have been dramatically increasing our fundamental R+D budgets during the era of the 1970’s energy crisis. By not doing so and by not having a sufficiently diversified energy portfolio at this point in time, we have ceded a lot of economic leverage to Russia (and China).

2. Basic patience: Putin invaded Ukraine rather suddenly (yah yah, I understand Russia had a lengthy military buildup at the border…). It takes a bit of time to reroute a gigantic global energy trade market. And given present inflation issues and risks of further energy supply shocks, it kinda makes sense for the West to slowly wean ourselves from Russian fossil fuels instead of forcing an abrupt cut-off.

3. Problems with U.S. imperialism: All of our Russian oil import issues could have magically gone away if we had healthy (i.e. open) trade relations with countries like, say, Venezuela. But in Venezuela’s example case, we are sanctioning their people to death because we hate global left-wing politics and we want to install our latest hand-chosen coup puppet, Juan Guaido, who will do our economically exploitative bidding in ways that no leftist would ever allow.

[SoCal Deek]

32 minutes ago, ComradeKayAdams said:

 

Um…sorta. Lessons abound for all! Let’s discuss:

 

What the left can learn:

 

1. The value of nuclear: Germany and most far-lefties should talk to France about it…the benefits, the costs, the technical risks, etc. They will feel much better about nuclear after this long conversation with the French. If Germany hadn’t abandoned nuclear after Fukushima, Europe as a whole wouldn’t be nearly as dependent on Russian fossil fuels as they currently are.

 

What the right can learn:

 

My goodness…where do I start…

 

1. Basic import/export facts: Russia makes up only a small percent (~7%?) of our total fossil fuel imports. Canada is our #1 exporter by far. Also, U.S. fossil fuel production has never gone down since Biden took office. Furthermore, no additional global fossil fuel production is necessary in order to facilitate cutting Russia off from the international energy trade market. A complete rerouting of the current trade market would suffice. If you don’t believe me, look up global import/export data for each major country and play around with the arithmetic for yourselves.

2. Keystone pipeline: It was always going to take several years to come online, so it’s not a viable solution for either the current Russia-Ukraine fiasco or the current COVID-related cost-push inflation fiasco.

3. Drilling permits: There’s no need to issue new ones when fossil fuel corporations already have an abundance of sea/land plots that are currently untouched.

4. Nationalization of energy: Lots of right-wingers want Biden to take firm control of the situation and alter our country’s energy trade market. Fine…but keep in mind that U.S. energy is controlled by private corporations, so you are technically advocating for at least a temporary “socialization” of the national energy sector.

5. Energy independence: You are free to prioritize this aspiration if you wish, but keep in mind that U.S. energy will continue to be a tradable private commodity on the global market. Therefore, it will continue to be subject to the global market whims of energy supply/demand laws, a.k.a. global cost fluctuations.

6. The many tentacles of the U.S. oligarchy: The most important point for righties to understand because it undergirds much of contemporary American politics, especially as it pertains to energy commerce. The fossil fuel corporate oligarchs have propagandized you to think that anthropogenic global warming is even a scientific debate. The manufacturing industry oligarchs are behind ridiculous Supreme Court cases like WVA v. EPA, which aims to undermine the practical federal power to regulate pollution. U.S. corporate oligarchs of all stripes have colluded to ensure opacity in international commerce transactions, which makes federal sanction impositions much more difficult to enforce (relative to the rest of the industrialized countries that comprise the West). I could go on and on with this subcategory, but you probably get the point…

 

What both the left and the right can learn:

 

1. Long-term planning: Everyone in the West should have started much sooner with renewables. Ideally, we all should have been dramatically increasing our fundamental R+D budgets during the era of the 1970’s energy crisis. By not doing so and by not having a sufficiently diversified energy portfolio at this point in time, we have ceded a lot of economic leverage to Russia (and China).

2. Basic patience: Putin invaded Ukraine rather suddenly (yah yah, I understand Russia had a lengthy military buildup at the border…). It takes a bit of time to reroute a gigantic global energy trade market. And given present inflation issues and risks of further energy supply shocks, it kinda makes sense for the West to slowly wean ourselves from Russian fossil fuels instead of forcing an abrupt cut-off.

3. Problems with U.S. imperialism: All of our Russian oil import issues could have magically gone away if we had healthy (i.e. open) trade relations with countries like, say, Venezuela. But in Venezuela’s example case, we are sanctioning their people to death because we hate global left-wing politics and we want to install our latest hand-chosen coup puppet, Juan Guaido, who will do our economically exploitative bidding in ways that no leftist would ever allow.

Another thesis paper Kay? Let me shorten it for you.
 

“We need to move away from fossil fuels.”

 

Done!

[BillsFanNC]

 

[Tiberius]

MOSCOW — Putin on Friday called for “normalization” of relations with other states, saying that Moscow had “absolutely no ill intentions with regard to our neighbors.”

“I think that everyone should think about normalizing relations and cooperating normally,” he said in comments via video link from a ceremony raising the Russian flag on a Kaliningrad ferry.

 

 

😳

[sherpa]

1 hour ago, ComradeKayAdams said:

 

3. Problems with U.S. imperialism: All of our Russian oil import issues could have magically gone away if we had healthy (i.e. open) trade relations with countries like, say, Venezuela. But in Venezuela’s example case, we are sanctioning their people to death because we hate global left-wing politics and we want to install our latest hand-chosen coup puppet, Juan Guaido, who will do our economically exploitative bidding in ways that no leftist would ever allow.

 

At the risk of "thread creep," Venezuela's problems are entirely self inflicted.

By the way, they recently, two days ago I think, condemned the rest of the world's sanctions against Russia in the wake of their Ukraine invasion.

 

The Chavez gov nationalized their oil industry to fund his adventures trying to spread the "Bolivarian Revolution" across South America and beyond. Utter failure and he destroyed that industry among others he nationalized.

He then rigged the legislature, rigged the courts, changed the constitution to ensure he could stay in power, courted Syria, Iran and Russia while harassing the US, and US diplomats based in Caracas at every opportunity, and constantly poking his neighbor, Colombia.

He set his acolyte, Maduro, up to succeed him and the downward spiral continued with a massive exodus of talent to escape the nonsense.

 

Venezuela is an entirely self caused, unforced error.

The US deserves no blame for their tragedy. 

[Tiberius]

1 hour ago, sherpa said:

 

At the risk of "thread creep," Venezuela's problems are entirely self inflicted.

By the way, they recently, two days ago I think, condemned the rest of the world's sanctions against Russia in the wake of their Ukraine invasion.

 

The Chavez gov nationalized their oil industry to fund his adventures trying to spread the "Bolivarian Revolution" across South America and beyond. Utter failure and he destroyed that industry among others he nationalized.

He then rigged the legislature, rigged the courts, changed the constitution to ensure he could stay in power, courted Syria, Iran and Russia while harassing the US, and US diplomats based in Caracas at every opportunity, and constantly poking his neighbor, Colombia.

He set his acolyte, Maduro, up to succeed him and the downward spiral continued with a massive exodus of talent to escape the nonsense.

 

Venezuela is an entirely self caused, unforced error.

The US deserves no blame for their tragedy. 

Didn't the Bush administration recognize the right wing take over of a democratically elected government there in 2002? They recognized a coup to replace the elected leaders. It failed and after that the country turned away from democracy quickly. 

 

So, "No blame" isn't entirely true 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

4 hours ago, Tiberius said:

 

Good reason to get off the oil economy as best we can. People have been trying 

Sure it’s a great fairytale…. Unfortunately there is no cheaper form of energy period. And there is nothing even close. 
 

no matter how much more expensive regulators try and make it so green energy can offer some cost competition, it’s just not there’s yet, and a helluva long way away. 

[Tiberius]

1 minute ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

Sure it’s a great fairytale…. Unfortunately there is no cheaper form of energy period. And there is nothing even close. 
 

no matter how much more expensive regulators try and make it so green energy can offer some cost competition, it’s just not there’s yet, and a helluva long way away. 

For now, sure. Oil is a lot more expensive than it looks. We have to fight wars over it, deal with oppressive regimes that thrive off of it and..oh ya, we are burning up the planet. 

 

 

Go Green!! 

[TSOL]

3 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

Sure it’s a great fairytale…. Unfortunately there is no cheaper form of energy period. And there is nothing even close. 
 

no matter how much more expensive regulators try and make it so green energy can offer some cost competition, it’s just not there’s yet, and a helluva long way away. 

 

 

I'd love to see the logistics of generating enough electricity to charge 1.4 billion electric cars once or twice a week 

[sherpa]

23 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

Didn't the Bush administration recognize the right wing take over of a democratically elected government there in 2002? They recognized a coup to replace the elected leaders. It failed and after that the country turned away from democracy quickly. 

 

So, "No blame" isn't entirely true 

 

Absolutely no blame.

That coup failed and Chavez returned to power.

Know he he got that power?

You guessed it, a coup.

Either way, no blame is due the US for any of that.

The US simply knew the unfolding tragedy he would cause before he knew it.

Either way, he was back in power quickly and started his tragic realm.

 

Among the many things I listed in my original post that caused this economic and humanitarian tragedy that were firmly caused my the Chavez regime, I forgot to mention he completely trashed the currency, which happens when you trash the economy by expropriating, (stealing), entire industries leading to dramatic failures, stole money from foreign businesses providing needed services to that country resulting in them leaving, and caused a massive exodus of capital and talent, and causing the worst domestic crime environment in the hemisphere.

 

None of that was caused by anyone other than him.

 

Shoot. The country was so screwed up when he died that they couldn't even mummify him.

They tried to do what the Chinese did to Mao, which was chemically treat him so he could be on display, but waited too long and his corpse was already rotting.

Good thing for him, because if he was displayed, as pissed as the folks got at him, it would not have ended well for the mummy.

 

[SCBills]

PBS blurs out picture of Nazi behind mayor during interview 

 

Its all so weird…

 

 

[Motorin']

14 minutes ago, SCBills said:

PBS blurs out picture of Nazi behind mayor during interview 

 

Its all so weird…

 

 

 

That looks like his own Zoom background blur setting that he can use with one click... Who's in the picture? 

Edited March 4, 2022 by Motorin'

[SCBills]

2 minutes ago, Motorin' said:

 

That looks like his own Zoom background blur setting that he can use with one click... Who's in the picture? 

Stephen Bandera. 
 

“Stepan Andriyovych Bandera was a Ukrainian politician and theorist of the militant wing of the far-right Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists and a leader and ideologist of Ukrainian ultranationalists known for his involvement in terrorist activities”

[B-Man]

 

 

NATO chief: We talked it over and we've ruled out a no-fly zone over Ukraine

 

 

https://hotair.com/allahpundit/2022/03/04/nato-chief-we-talked-it-over-and-weve-ruled-out-a-no-fly-zone-over-ukraine-n452969

 

 

[SCBills]

Lindsey Graham on Hannity, then doubling down on Twitter, calling for the assassination of Putin.  
 

Here he is in 2016 with McCain and Klobuchar talking about a plan to go on the offensive against Russia in 2017.  
 

As an aside… Adam Schiff, in front of Congress during the Trump Presidency, made the case that we arm Ukraine to fight Russia over there, rather than over here. 
 

I can’t imagine why Russia views the Western role in Ukraine as provocative.