Picking up Edmunds Option a Rare Beane Mistake

[LeGOATski]

2 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

It's hard to quantify his value in this defense because the plays he prevents don't show up on broadcast footage or the stat sheet. I'm sure QBs sometimes have to move away from their read in the middle of the field because he's roaming in that area, and he covers RBs out of the backfield exceptionally well. But smart players like Mahomes and Kelce exploit his weaknesses to death. It's like Josh Allen if he had never developed after his rookie year. The things he does well he does really well, but the weaknesses are so glaring that it becomes a net negative to the team.

How are you quantifying a net negative then?

[Process]

6 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Ok, maybe I shouldn’t have spoken for everyone.  

I think the bolded is a little dramatic.  I don’t see it that way at all, but I agree that there are some pretty bad negative takes in here.  I’ve had a couple trolling pot shots, all

in fun.  Some people get so crazy over the thought of any negative talk about a Bill.  I must admit to poking the bear a couple times.  
 

Regarding other coaches and player talking him up, that’s the business.  Everyone shows respect to everyone for the most part.  How many instances can you recall of an opposing coach talking bad about an opposing player?  Very rare.  Coaches are asked about their opponents weekly.  The majority of the talk is positive.  
 

He’s a solid young player with tremendous upside. My only real take on the matter is that I hope he improves.  If he doesn’t improve, he won’t be worth the extension that he’s going to command, based mostly on his physical being.  If he doesn’t improve, I think he’ll be extremely overpaid based on his play and I hope we take our comp pick and run.  

This is his 4th year in the league. I'm genuinely curious, not trolling or being sarcastic, what do you see at this point that makes you think he still has tremendous upside? Because he's big?

 

To me, he isn't getting better, at all. He makes 0 plays, and shows very little potential.

[GoBills808]

5 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

It's hard to quantify his value in this defense because the plays he prevents don't show up on broadcast footage or the stat sheet. I'm sure QBs sometimes have to move away from their read in the middle of the field because he's roaming in that area, and he covers RBs out of the backfield exceptionally well. But smart players like Mahomes and Kelce exploit his weaknesses to death. It's like Josh Allen if he had never developed after his rookie year. The things he does well he does really well, but the weaknesses are so glaring that it becomes a net negative to the team.

You really think Tremaine Edmunds is a net negative to the team?

[NewEra]

Just now, Process said:

This is his 4th year in the league. I'm genuinely curious, not trolling or being sarcastic, what do you see at this point that makes you think he still has tremendous upside? Because he's big?

 

To me, he isn't getting better, at all. He makes 0 plays, and shows very little potential.

His physical being gives him tremendous upside.  His length. Speed.  Athleticism.  Physically, he’s offers more than every MLB in the league.  He’s just not advanced in almost everything other aspect of playing LB, like the greats are.  

3 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

You really think Tremaine Edmunds is a net negative to the team?

Agreed.  Net negative is an exaggeration 👎🏻.  I agree with the rest of his post though 

[HappyDays]

3 minutes ago, LeGOATski said:

How are you quantifying a net negative then?

 

Having just rewatched the game a couple hours ago, Edmunds was seemingly responsible for a large chunk of Washington's passing yardage. The secondary did their job, the d-line did their job, Milano did his job. When Washington moved the ball it was typically because Edmunds was covering grass or moving a split second too late.

 

2 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

You really think Tremaine Edmunds is a net negative to the team?

 

I'm saying his weaknesses are so easily exploitable that teams who know how to attack him can erase his positive attributes and move the ball at will. He is lucky to be playing in front of an elite secondary and behind a much improved front four. That makes it easier to hide his flaws.

[GoBills808]

Move the ball at will…wow. Don’t know what you guys have been watching. Like at all.

[Process]

1 minute ago, NewEra said:

His physical being gives him tremendous upside.  His length. Speed.  Athleticism.  Physically, he’s offers more than every MLB in the league.  He’s just not advanced in almost everything other aspect of playing LB, like the greats are.  

Are we sure he's that athletic? Why does he play so slow? He takes forever to react and is so slow to get to the ball. He struggles to make one on one tackles and we don't ever see him making plays in coverage.

 

Maybe he looks good with his shirt off or in the gym but he doesn't play like an athletic MLB. 

[LeGOATski]

17 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Having just rewatched the game a couple hours ago, Edmunds was seemingly responsible for a large chunk of Washington's passing yardage. The secondary did their job, the d-line did their job, Milano did his job. When Washington moved the ball it was typically because Edmunds was covering grass or moving a split second too late.

Are you counting that play at the end of the 3rd where they would've had a first down, but the receiver dropped it?

Edited September 27, 2021 by LeGOATski

[NewEra]

12 minutes ago, Process said:

Are we sure he's that athletic? Why does he play so slow? He takes forever to react and is so slow to get to the ball. He struggles to make one on one tackles and we don't ever see him making plays in coverage.

 

Maybe he looks good with his shirt off or in the gym but he doesn't play like an athletic MLB. 

He’s athletic.  

[NewEra]

17 minutes ago, Process said:

Are we sure he's that athletic? Why does he play so slow? He takes forever to react and is so slow to get to the ball. He struggles to make one on one tackles and we don't ever see him making plays in coverage.

 

Maybe he looks good with his shirt off or in the gym but he doesn't play like an athletic MLB. 

[Alphadawg7]

37 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Ok, maybe I shouldn’t have spoken for everyone.  

I think the bolded is a little dramatic.  I don’t see it that way at all, but I agree that there are some pretty bad negative takes in here.  I’ve had a couple trolling pot shots, all

in fun.  Some people get so crazy over the thought of any negative talk about a Bill.  I must admit to poking the bear a couple times.  
 

Regarding other coaches and player talking him up, that’s the business.  Everyone shows respect to everyone for the most part.  How many instances can you recall of an opposing coach talking bad about an opposing player?  Very rare.  Coaches are asked about their opponents weekly.  The majority of the talk is positive.  
 

He’s a solid young player with tremendous upside. My only real take on the matter is that I hope he improves.  If he doesn’t improve, he won’t be worth the extension that he’s going to command, based mostly on his physical being.  If he doesn’t improve, I think he’ll be extremely overpaid based on his play and I hope we take our comp pick and run.  

I’m just saying, he’s not nearly as bad as some in this thread are making him out to be.  He didn’t make 2 pro bowls in 3 years because he’s the worst MLB in football as someone foolishly called him.  
 

The people who really KNOW football don’t see him as terrible by any means.  He’s going to get paid, and how he plays for Buffalo this year and next will determine what Beane thinks he’s worth.  If the numbers are close enough, he will likely remain a Bill.  If Beane doesn’t see him as worth what the market is dictating for him, he will leave in FA.  It’s really that simple.  
 

All the over exaggerating and freaking out in this thread but some people here is just unnecessary.  The title and OP of this thread is about the most ridiculous thread that’s been on this board all season.

 

He isn’t the best at his position, but he’s probably top 10, which means we could do a lot worse.  And he still has upside as well.  

[GoBills808]

 

[LeGOATski]

16 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

 

It doesn't even enter people's eyes...

[Big Blitz]

He excels in coverage that's why they like him.  

 

But yes, in the 2 games a year we play a team with a great oline and running game he can be an issue.

 

Thats Cleveland and maybe Baltimore in the AFC.  This year it's New Orleans in the NFC.  They don't value the traditional tough vs the run MLB that can't cover my guess is because of how the games evolved and so my grades on him:

 

Edmunds in coverage = 7/10

Edmunds vs the run = 4/10

 

A slightly above average MLB that fits what we want to do.   

 

I don't truly know his intangibles but they all speak highly of him in that locker room.   

[PaoloBillsFanFromItaly]

1 hour ago, GoBills808 said:

 

Ok he covered the curl route. 

[GoBills808]

11 minutes ago, PaoloBillsFanFromItaly said:

Ok he covered the curl route. 

Not just covered: read it, jumped it, eliminated it. Forced QB to pull it down and throw a bad pick. 3 plays later Allen back shoulder to Knox puts the game effectively out of reach.

[GunnerBill]

I'd like to tell you I have enough information to comment on how Tremaine played yesterday but given Fox's aversion to showing replays it will have to wait I'm afraid. 

[GunnerBill]

4 hours ago, nedboy7 said:

Every week it’s the same negative mental gymnastics even if the team dominates.  It’s never good enough. Always someone who is targeted by a few here. Hell this season the first two weeks it was JA.  He played great today. So back to edmunds. Not sure what purpose it serves after a while.  And then these people defend their neurotic behavior with asking what’s wrong with pointing out their opinions. Nothing wrong with it unless that’s all you ever add to the conversation.  At that point it becomes toxic.  We are gonna end up winning a SB at some point soon and these folks will start bitching that night about how we won’t be able to repeat next year due to some player who didn’t play well in the playoffs.

 

I am sorry I just don't buy this. When a team wins not everything is perfect. When a team loses not everything is awful. You learn by analysing the why in both cases. I know for some fans their fandom is just about riding the wave but that isn't the way everyone's mind works. My fandom is about understanding the why. It doesn't mean I am negative and the same goes for a lot of others in this thread. Sure you get the odd glass constantly half full person like you get the odd pom pom waver. But most people in this thread are not that - whether they are right, or wrong, about Edmunds.

Edited September 27, 2021 by GunnerBill

[Rochesterfan]

4 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

 

 

Here in lies the issue.  He makes a lot of plays like this.  He did it several times in Miami allowing multiple sacks to occur.  
 

He gets no credit from the fan base for this and last year without pressure from the front 4 - the QB just changes focus and hits a different WR.  This year there was pressure all around him and when he goes to the next read - the Bills jump the route and make a play.

 

The flip side to this is if you watch the KC game last year - or a few others.  The Chiefs would flood that area and Edmunds would do exactly what the Bills defense expects.  The QB looks at that receiver and Edmunds moves to cover that player and if the front 4 can get no pressure - a player like Mahomes just moves to the next target and it looks like Edmunds was manipulated.

 

On top of that - if Edmunds maintains the zone integrity and stays balanced between the 2 guys in his zone - he gets accused of “covering grass” and making a tackle after giving up the catch.  
 

He cannot win in that role.  He is far from a perfect player, but as they continue to adjust this scheme and do more stuff with the safeties and Tre covering TEs in these Man/Zone combo coverages - the defense gets wins across the board.

 

The issue I have is the assumption everyone has that he wants or expects to be paid like Leonard and that he will be overpaid and fans are already knocking him for that.  The fact is we do not know where Beane nor Edmunds slot him and what that means for his pay day.  
 

Will he sign a contract that is higher than some guys that play the position better? - most likely because it is his turn and that happens at every position - when your contract expires matters as much or more as your play in terms of getting paid.  Does he approach the Leonard deal of 20 million per season? I doubt it - at least not here.  I could see them looking at 12-15 million with the cap going up and bigger money in the years Josh has less money, but it will not reset the market.  
 

There could also come a moment where if the right player falls to the right spot in the draft - the Bills look to move on, but my guess is they are not ecstatic with his play, but are also not looking to move on.  
 

We will see, but the major thing I do not get is the anger some fans have over overpaying for a guy that we have not overpaid for yet.  People are already complaining about his next contract and the parameters- when we have no idea what that is going to look like.  Let it happen and then complain because based upon the team atmosphere an wha Beane has done - we could get him below market value like Milano.

 

 

 

[Back2Buff]

He's been the worst player on the defense this year.

 

Glad this team decided to invest in Milano.  This D could be so much better with a good MLB.