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Ass't Coaches: Rick Dennison (MN) and Cole Popovich (NE) out after refusing vaccine


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3 minutes ago, SCBills said:

Just pointing out the punitive nature of what the NFL is doing.  
 

The whole point is to hurt teams with lower vaccination numbers and turn players/coaches/ownership against other players.   There’s no other rationale for their backwards plan to only force forfeits on outbreaks if they involve vaccinated players.  

 

You mean UNvaccinated players?

 

I disagree with you about the point.  I think the whole thing is founded on a premise that's no longer true: that a team outbreak is very much more probable to be initiated and propegated by unvaccinated players, 12-20x more likely (vaccine effectiveness against infection/spread 92-95%).  This was supported by the initial studies that came out a couple months after vaccinations - Israel did one, CDC studied 4,000 HCW with the covid 19 variant that was circulating at the time, etc.

 

But new data from Israel, UK, MO, Providence, CDC MMRW etc, now say that with Delta, that's no longer true.  Vaccinated people are still less likely to catch and spread Covid-19, but it's only ~5x more likely (effectiveness ~78%)  That means if you look at a team that has 4 or 5x more vaccinated coaches and players than unvaccinated, the probability of spread originating from either group is ~ equal, or maybe even a bit more in the vaccinated group if a lot of them are vaxxed with J&J.

 

That being the case, its effect is punative, yes, but I don't think that was the point or the rationale.

 

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2 hours ago, SCBills said:


6’3 190

 

I eat lean meat, fruits & veggies six days a week. 
 

Cardio 3x per week 

Lift 5 days per week

Basketball league once per week

Box once per week 

 

No underlying health issues.  
 

I do my part in patronizing pharmaceuticals by taking Allegra every day for allergies.  

Hey, did you start taking this more seriously at a particular age? I've lost motivation in recent years to be healthy and eat well. In my 40s now and my motivation has gone to s***

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1 hour ago, dorquemada said:

 

Sam Huff was 6'1 and Nick Bo was 5'11".  Both at least a standard deviation taller than their age peers

 

5'8" puts our poster in the 34th percentile for American adult males.  Doug FLutie could dunk on him

 

Sam Mills was a hell of a linebacker at 5'9".  Might have been more like 5'7"-5'8", given how sports players/teams like to inflate guys' heights.  Then again, the OP admitted to being 5'8" on the Internet, so he's probably closer to 5'4"

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19 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

As I understand it, the current NFL policy is that if an outbreak is among vaccinated players and the team can't reschedule - it's not clear what happens, but nothing said about forfeit.

 

If the outbreak is among unvaccinated players, the team forfeits and takes an "L"

 

But what happens if the source of an outbreak is a vaccinated player who brings it into the facility where it then spreads among both unvaccinated and vaccinated players (maybe more of the latter, since only tested every 2 weeks)?  Vaccinated players are less likely (~4-5x by UK data) to be infected, but they're also allowed by NFL rules to have much greater community exposure to Covid.

 

In real life, this stuff is way more complicated than the NFL's vaccinated/unvaccinated dichotomy makes it seem.  It might have made sense when a vaccinated player was 20x less likely to spread Covid (early Spring, before Alpha and Delta) but that Ship has Sailed

The vaccinated spreading to unvaccinated players will be almost impossible to prove since vaccinated players rarely if ever get tested before infection. 

 

Unvaccinated players get tested daily so it will look like the unvaccinated just caught it through chance. It will be much easier to catch infection if you're tested daily.

 

https://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2021/6/16/22537177/nfl-nflpa-covid-vaccination-rules-2021

Edited by JakeFrommStateFarm
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1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Indeed but how many of us suddenly have the terms of our employment on a matter as serious as this changed under our noses and the only options being conform or go? It is dangerous territory in my view. The league has provided a 3rd (tougher restrictions) option for players, I personally think they should do the same for coaches. And believe me I have little time for the anti-vax argument. 

I have.  The hospital I work at requires flu vaccine for every employee, conditional to employment.  They mandated 10 years ago, I have been there 15.  I work in research and have next to no contact with patients (maybe walking to lunch) but it didn't matter and it's been backed up by the courts.  If I don't like it I can simply find another job.

 

My problem is that they mandate it as an emergency authorized drug.  Mandating should not be allowed until full FDA approval.  And I'm a big fan of the mRNA vaccines.

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2 minutes ago, london_bills said:

Hey, did you start taking this more seriously at a particular age? I've lost motivation in recent years to be healthy and eat well. In my 40s now and my motivation has gone to s***


For me, it’s who you surround yourself with.   Mindset.  My circle are all active/healthy people.   I’ve stayed active since my teens, but surrounding myself with people who also have this lifestyle helps keep me on point. 

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2 minutes ago, JakeFrommStateFarm said:

The vaccinated spreading to unvaccinated players will be almost impossible to prove since vaccinated players rarely if ever get tested before infection. 

 

Unvaccinated players get tested daily so it will look like the unvaccinated just caught it through chance. It will be much easier to catch infection if you're tested daily.

 

https://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2021/6/16/22537177/nfl-nflpa-covid-vaccination-rules-2021

 

Interesting question, but I *think* they are still testing contacts or players who are symptomatic.  Then there are some other tools.  So I think "almost impossible" is an exaggeration, but less likely to be detected, sure.

 

Let's just say the current NFL policies are not likely to be effective if the goal is actually to keep players available and games on schedule.

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  • Draconator changed the title to Ass't Coaches: Rick Dennison (MN) and Cole Popovich (NE) out after refusing vaccine
16 minutes ago, GaryPinC said:

I have.  The hospital I work at requires flu vaccine for every employee, conditional to employment.  They mandated 10 years ago, I have been there 15.  I work in research and have next to no contact with patients (maybe walking to lunch) but it didn't matter and it's been backed up by the courts.  If I don't like it I can simply find another job.

 

My problem is that they mandate it as an emergency authorized drug.  Mandating should not be allowed until full FDA approval.  And I'm a big fan of the mRNA vaccines.

 

And I as I said earlier in certain industries I can see that the risk assessment is different. I can't yet be convinced coaching football falls into the same category as working in a hospital. 

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51 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

He did attend a game in Phoenix (there are pix and everything), but vaccination was not required: https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/arizona-health/2021/07/02/will-masks-be-required-suns-games-covid-19-delta-variant/7832049002/. Masks were recommended, but apparently a lot of people didn't follow rules. 

 

 

Damn, Josh. Buy the girl some clothes! She looks like a hobo, ya cheap bastard!

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4 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

And I as I said earlier in certain industries I can see that the risk assessment is different. I can't yet be convinced coaching football falls into the same category as working in a hospital. 

Well, I would simply say every organization conducts their own assessment of risk and responds accordingly.  The NFL is a multibillion dollar high-profile business and I certainly understand that they want to minimize their Covid risk to keep the league going.  Also, people pay attention to the example they set.  Why does it only have to be "certain industries"?   

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2 minutes ago, Chandler#81 said:

Damn, Josh. Buy the girl some clothes! She looks like a hobo, ya cheap bastard!

 

LOL the scraps of cloth the young lady wears cost $$$

 

12 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

And I as I said earlier in certain industries I can see that the risk assessment is different. I can't yet be convinced coaching football falls into the same category as working in a hospital. 

 

Maybe not in terms of risk to the public, but risk assessment in industry includes an assessment of liability risk to the company.

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2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Again though with respect I doubt those rule changes are a true equivalence with the vaccination. I don't feel comfortable with a decision of this seriousness being driven by employment. To me it is either a public policy decision that should be taken by Government or it is a personal responsibility decision to be taken by individuals. I feel instinctively uncomfortable with this kind of middle ground of employment being used to enforce by stealth. I say that as someone who does public policy making as a career. It makes me instinctively uncomfortable because (and I appreciate I am slightly off the point and the mods may kill this) if you try the incentivisation through economic factors (such as employment) approach and you get it wrong the long term damage to society is severe. I'd equate it to the Conservative incentivisation for private home ownership in the UK in the 80s. Well intentioned policy but it was using economic factors to drive societal behaviour and some of our most serious societal problems in the UK now can be traced back to the two tier society it left us with. That is my concern.

Understand your trepidation, but concerning public health, toes get stepped on, 

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9 minutes ago, GaryPinC said:

Well, I would simply say every organization conducts their own assessment of risk and responds accordingly.  The NFL is a multibillion dollar high-profile business and I certainly understand that they want to minimize their Covid risk to keep the league going.  Also, people pay attention to the example they set.  Why does it only have to be "certain industries"?   

 

I have explained why I think that above. Because for me this is too big and too fundamental a public policy question to be devolved on an individual basis to economic actors such as businesses. I am sceptical as a matter of public policy about the ability of economic nudge factors to deliver societal change without delivering significant downsides. Let's say for a second it is the NFL. Then it is car manufacturers. Then it is tech companies. And they all say "get vacced or you can't work here" and there becomes a diminishing pool of jobs open to non-vacced people. You are creating a two tier society that is going to give you a legacy of problems that last decades. That is why other than in those industries where it is really essential - and I understand and agree that there are some where it is - I don't think just devolving this decision about whether people must be vacced to industry is the right approach. 

9 minutes ago, Don Otreply said:

Understand your trepidation, but concerning public health, toes get stepped on, 

 

Indeed. I just firmly believe it is for Government to do that stepping. Not devolve it to industry. I know that is controversial especially in a country like the US where people tend to prefer small non-interventionist Government. 

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