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Bruce Smith official and unofficial sack leader


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11 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

The quickest Bruce ever tried to use leverage to get a new contract was after two years of a three year contract. (He got a new contract in '97 when he'd signed a three-year deal in '95.) That is hardly "right after" his new contract.

 

And that three-year deal was three years for $8.3 M. Not $8.3 M per year, but $8.3 over three years. Even at the time he was worth more.

 

Agreed that he was the best Bills player ever. There are two or thee others in the conversation, but I think he was the best.


I wonder what Bruce Smith would’ve commanded in this era in his prime? Possibly Aaron Donald money?

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3 minutes ago, ChronicAndKnuckles said:


I wonder what Bruce Smith would’ve commanded in this era in his prime? Possibly Aaron Donald money?

A lot. Bruce Smith is very much in the discussion as the best to play at that premium position. That automatically makes him one of best players to ever walk on a football field. 

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I was sixteen years old when we drafted Bruce Smith, so I saw a little bit of football before then and a lot afterward.  Bruce Smith is the best defensive end I have ever seen.  If he had played in a 4-3 like Reggie White did with guys like Clyde Simmons and Jerome Brown next to him?  The sack total race wouldn't even be close.

 

And about the money.  I used to get ticked when he sat out, like everyone else.  Then he'd make some great clutch play in his first game back that no one else in the league could make, and I'd look at my dad and go "he's worth it."  With apologies to Thurman, OJ, et al, Bruce Smith is really the one Buffalo Bill that we can claim is the very best ever at his position and know that while other teams' fans might argue, deep down they know we're right.

 

I just wish he wasn't afraid of the damn flu shot, that's all.

5 hours ago, ChronicAndKnuckles said:


I wonder what Bruce Smith would’ve commanded in this era in his prime? Possibly Aaron Donald money?

 

Aaron Donald would be wishing he got Bruce Smith money.

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11 hours ago, Greg S said:

 

Bruce on defense. OJ on offense. Talent wise best players in Bills history. Both are in the conversation for best ever at their position.


well I’ve said in 1973 in 14 games OJ ran FOR 148.1 yards per game.  The best ever even back in the 12 game era with Jim Brown.  OJ as a person is rotten.

 

I think in offense we may be redefining that Best bills offense ever to a guy who wears 17.  It will take another decade and consistency, but certainly possible.

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6 hours ago, starrymessenger said:

The great HoFmer Anthony Munoz told Boomer that he would kill him if he didn’t stop trash talking Bruce because he was the one having to deal with the fallout.

Nice!  I played OL and wore #78.  Both Munoz and Smith's #.  

 

The guys doing the work... 

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I don’t think it’s even a question, he’s the best player the Bills have ever had.   He is one of, if not, the best ever at his position.  The only other possible guy you could mention being in that scenario is OJ.  Thurman, while great, not one of the absolute best ever.  Reed, Kelly, Lofton, all great, but no where near the best ever.   Allen has the talent to put himself in that conversation with another decade of success like last year, but let’s not get ahead of ourselves.

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27 minutes ago, DCofNC said:

I don’t think it’s even a question, he’s the best player the Bills have ever had.   He is one of, if not, the best ever at his position.  The only other possible guy you could mention being in that scenario is OJ.  Thurman, while great, not one of the absolute best ever.  Reed, Kelly, Lofton, all great, but no where near the best ever.   Allen has the talent to put himself in that conversation with another decade of success like last year, but let’s not get ahead of ourselves.

IMO, Thurman Thomas was one of the absolute best all purpose RBs in the NFL. I also believe if he was force fed the football like Emmitt Smith was, his rushing yardage would be much higher. Remember, Barry Sanders was RB2 at Oklahoma State.

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It's cool they did this study and interesting that Bruce is still number 1 when you tally up the years before sacks became an official stat.  I had always heard growing up that if they counted sacks back in the day Deacon Jones would've been the all-time sack leader by far.

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32 minutes ago, Solomon Grundy said:

IMO, Thurman Thomas was one of the absolute best all purpose RBs in the NFL. I also believe if he was force fed the football like Emmitt Smith was, his rushing yardage would be much higher. Remember, Barry Sanders was RB2 at Oklahoma State.

I can respect that opinion, but in the eyes of the rest of the world, he’s not in the conversation as the best ever.  Stats do play a part in it and while I agree with you, I think he was a better back than Emmitt personally, you can’t validate the “what if’s”, so he will not be given that credit.

 

with respect to Barry Sanders, it’s not uncommon at all for the senior player to hold back a younger player, so as fun if a fact as it may be that Thurman was the starter, it’s arbitrary.

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53 minutes ago, DCofNC said:

I can respect that opinion, but in the eyes of the rest of the world, he’s not in the conversation as the best ever.  Stats do play a part in it and while I agree with you, I think he was a better back than Emmitt personally, you can’t validate the “what if’s”, so he will not be given that credit.

 

with respect to Barry Sanders, it’s not uncommon at all for the senior player to hold back a younger player, so as fun if a fact as it may be that Thurman was the starter, it’s arbitrary.

 

Emmitt was one way MUCH better than Thurman - acting.  He'd act out injuries to give his team a break, be taken out with announcers saying he may be out for rest of game and then one player later he would be playing.  It was to point in sports bars patrons would be saying he will be back in one play when announcers repeat their spiel. 

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Deacon Jones, just wow. How neat seeing this. Congrats Bruce, the all time spot is the all time spot.

 

Just floored by Jones. I always knew it would be high, but averaging more than a sack per game started with 3 seasons at 20+ in 14 game seasons. 

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23 hours ago, BRH said:

I was sixteen years old when we drafted Bruce Smith, so I saw a little bit of football before then and a lot afterward.  Bruce Smith is the best defensive end I have ever seen.  If he had played in a 4-3 like Reggie White did with guys like Clyde Simmons and Jerome Brown next to him?  The sack total race wouldn't even be close.

 

And about the money.  I used to get ticked when he sat out, like everyone else.  Then he'd make some great clutch play in his first game back that no one else in the league could make, and I'd look at my dad and go "he's worth it."  With apologies to Thurman, OJ, et al, Bruce Smith is really the one Buffalo Bill that we can claim is the very best ever at his position and know that while other teams' fans might argue, deep down they know we're right.

 

I just wish he wasn't afraid of the damn flu shot, that's all.

 

Aaron Donald would be wishing he got Bruce Smith money.

I always hated that narrative. It ignores how White played in several different schemes including a 3-4 in the USFL before joining the Eagles, plus Whites sack totals went down after Simmons came on. Then there’s all the two and three man fronts that Fritz Shurmur used to employ with the Packers: most notably a 3-3 big nickel. 
 

It’s just an impossible argument as to which was definitively better, and the line in the sand is based on personal biases. 
 

That said, I go with Bruce because…. Well…. I’m here and go to Bills games and not on a Packers forum forming prayers about A-Aron. 🤷‍♂️

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On 7/23/2021 at 7:58 AM, Greg S said:

 

Bruce on defense. OJ on offense. Talent wise best players in Bills history. Both are in the conversation for best ever at their position.

Even now I’d have to put Josh ahead of OJ and I know that OJ is in the same echelon as Barry Sanders for sure.

10 hours ago, Solomon Grundy said:

IMO, Thurman Thomas was one of the absolute best all purpose RBs in the NFL. I also believe if he was force fed the football like Emmitt Smith was, his rushing yardage would be much higher. Remember, Barry Sanders was RB2 at Oklahoma State.

Thurman was great, Barry was the best..

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So glad to have these statistics, but we shouldn't forget that Bruce played in 16-game seasons, whereas Deacon played at most 14 games a year.

Deacon, however, also played in a league that allowed DEs to come off the ball with a vigorous head slap to the OL in front of them... Always a problem with comparing cumulative career statistics across eras.

 

Both were great players, for sure. Bruce was the greatest Bill (even if it's close). Notably, neither Deacon Jones nor Bruce Smith ever played on an NFL champion.

 

P.S. And suck it, Michael Strahan. That phantom sack of Favre to get your one-year record is an abomination.

Edited by RJ (not THAT RJ)
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On 7/24/2021 at 6:46 PM, Buffalo Junction said:

I always hated that narrative. It ignores how White played in several different schemes including a 3-4 in the USFL before joining the Eagles, plus Whites sack totals went down after Simmons came on. Then there’s all the two and three man fronts that Fritz Shurmur used to employ with the Packers: most notably a 3-3 big nickel. 
 

It’s just an impossible argument as to which was definitively better, and the line in the sand is based on personal biases. 
 

That said, I go with Bruce because…. Well…. I’m here and go to Bills games and not on a Packers forum forming prayers about A-Aron. 🤷‍♂️

 

ESPN has a compelling argument for White and Bruce isn't even part of it.  http://www.espn.com/espn/page2/story?page=whitlock/041230

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5 hours ago, RJ (not THAT RJ) said:

So glad to have these statistics, but we shouldn't forget that Bruce played in 16-game seasons, whereas Deacon played at most 14 games a year.

Deacon, however, also played in a league that allowed DEs to come off the ball with a vigorous head slap to the OL in front of them... Always a problem with comparing cumulative career statistics across eras.

 

Both were great players, for sure. Bruce was the greatest Bill (even if it's close). Notably, neither Deacon Jones nor Bruce Smith ever played on an NFL champion.

 

plus, didn’t offense run the ball a lot more in Deacon Jones’ era?

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53 minutes ago, RiotAct said:

plus, didn’t offense run the ball a lot more in Deacon Jones’ era?

 

Also very true. Now, when they did throw the QB was more likely to drop deep and look long (no West Coast Offense in the 1960s) and the rules against offense holding were stricter, so that might make rushing the passer slightly easier... but you get the point.

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