Pats* fans cause trouble, get flight canceled

[Just Jack]

https://nypost.com/2021/07/06/american-airlines-flight-to-bahamas-canceled-after-boston-teens-refuse-masks

[TBBills]

I can just picture the bawston accents and just trash coming out of there mouths.

[Jauronimo]

I can only imagine the rage the other passengers who missed a day of vacation must be feeling.  I think my days of getting in fights are long since over but it would be tempting to beat up a punk kid with my adult muscles in this situation.  

[Augie]

20 minutes ago, Jauronimo said:

I can only imagine the rage the other passengers who missed a day of vacation must be feeling.  I think my days of getting in fights are long since over but it would be tempting to beat up a punk kid with my adult muscles in this situation.  

 

If the beverage cart carried Gatorade I would pay for you to continue. If those little mini bottles would help keep the beat down going, I’m good for whatever the cart carries! 

 

Count me out for bail! 

[Chandler#81]

Mask-holes.

Perfect.

[SinceThe70s]

Your cousin from Boston?

 

(For the record my cousins from Boston are great)

[Punching Bag]

None of them were charged.

 

I cannot not figure out (and surprised no one asked airline) why they did not just leave those who refused to wear masks at airport.

[Doc Brown]

31 minutes ago, Limeaid said:

None of them were charged.

 

I cannot not figure out (and surprised no one asked airline) why they did not just leave those who refused to wear masks at airport.

Plus, why delay the flight after kicking them off?  Maybe the crew timed out by the time it took to get those jackasses off the plane.

[sherpa]

5 hours ago, Limeaid said:

None of them were charged.

 

I cannot not figure out (and surprised no one asked airline) why they did not just leave those who refused to wear masks at airport.

 

Because it's a lot more complicated than that.

One, two or three passengers, not that big of a deal.

Thirty, and minors is a big deal and presents a very complicated issue that would require a lot of people and a lot of time to sort out.

[qwksilver]

No consequences for their actions. That'll help teach them a lesson. Where was the police in this? Send the bill to the parents....

[Doc]

1 hour ago, sherpa said:

Because it's a lot more complicated than that.

One, two or three passengers, not that big of a deal.

Thirty, and minors is a big deal and presents a very complicated issue that would require a lot of people and a lot of time to sort out.

 

How?  Either you cancel the flight or kick these morons off of it, they're going to have to call mommy and/or daddy to get them anyway.

[sherpa]

1 hour ago, Doc said:

 

How?  Either you cancel the flight or kick these morons off of it, they're going to have to call mommy and/or daddy to get them anyway.

 

The airline is not a law enforcement organization.

Are they supposed to sit everyone down and have an illegal hearing?

Airport cops are not staffed enough to handle this either. Nor do they want to.

Thirty kids to handle and decide who stays and who goes. Way too much work and way too much time and would undoubtedly result in lawsuits.

Are they to take statements from the other passengers?

"Mommy and Daddy" are not going to come from Boston to Charlotte to pick them up, so do you fly them back to Boston?

Not likely, and the lawyers would be overwhelming, because they'd all be individual cases.

It would be a legal quagmire.

 

What about the bags?

How long would that take to get sorted out?

How many people?

 

Charlotte had a very rough weather day that day. The airplane had already been swapped out once and that certainly took some time.

How about crew duty time limitations?

Probably not an issue, but how about destination curfew issues including customs/immigration and the current presence of Covid screeners?

 

Regarding a previous post about "teaching them a lesson," that is hardly the airlines' task.

 

The point is that it is much more complicated than it was presented in the very limited story published.

 

It's unfortunate that those not involved had to wait until the next morning, but when a group of idiots behaves like this is has effects on others.

 

[frostbitmic]

I'm thinking that those individiots that caused the flight to be "delayed" a day should be held financially responsible from both the people who had their vacation delayed a day and the airline for what it cost them. $$$

 

Not holding them or their parents accountable for their actions teaches them nothing and they'll be massholes for life.

[Seasons1992]

24 minutes ago, sherpa said:

 

The airline is not a law enforcement organization.

Are they supposed to sit everyone down and have an illegal hearing?

Airport cops are not staffed enough to handle this either. Nor do they want to.

Thirty kids to handle and decide who stays and who goes. Way too much work and way too much time and would undoubtedly result in lawsuits.

Are they to take statements from the other passengers?

"Mommy and Daddy" are not going to come from Boston to Charlotte to pick them up, so do you fly them back to Boston?

Not likely, and the lawyers would be overwhelming, because they'd all be individual cases.

It would be a legal quagmire.

 

What about the bags?

How long would that take to get sorted out?

How many people?

 

Charlotte had a very rough weather day that day. The airplane had already been swapped out once and that certainly took some time.

How about crew duty time limitations?

Probably not an issue, but how about destination curfew issues including customs/immigration and the current presence of Covid screeners?

 

Regarding a previous post about "teaching them a lesson," that is hardly the airlines' task.

 

The point is that it is much more complicated than it was presented in the very limited story published.

 

It's unfortunate that those not involved had to wait until the next morning, but when a group of idiots behaves like this is has effects on others.

 

 

People, 

 

@sherpa knows what he's talking about. This is the post that explains it all perfectly.

[Doc]

42 minutes ago, sherpa said:

The airline is not a law enforcement organization.

Are they supposed to sit everyone down and have an illegal hearing?

Airport cops are not staffed enough to handle this either. Nor do they want to.

Thirty kids to handle and decide who stays and who goes. Way too much work and way too much time and would undoubtedly result in lawsuits.

Are they to take statements from the other passengers?

"Mommy and Daddy" are not going to come from Boston to Charlotte to pick them up, so do you fly them back to Boston?

Not likely, and the lawyers would be overwhelming, because they'd all be individual cases.

It would be a legal quagmire.

 

What about the bags?

How long would that take to get sorted out?

How many people?

 

Charlotte had a very rough weather day that day. The airplane had already been swapped out once and that certainly took some time.

How about crew duty time limitations?

Probably not an issue, but how about destination curfew issues including customs/immigration and the current presence of Covid screeners?

 

Regarding a previous post about "teaching them a lesson," that is hardly the airlines' task.

 

The point is that it is much more complicated than it was presented in the very limited story published.

 

It's unfortunate that those not involved had to wait until the next morning, but when a group of idiots behaves like this is has effects on others.

 

 

Aren't the airlines allowed to kick-off anyone they want, if they're not following their rules?  

[Hapless Bills Fan]

11 hours ago, Jauronimo said:

I can only imagine the rage the other passengers who missed a day of vacation must be feeling.  I think my days of getting in fights are long since over but it would be tempting to beat up a punk kid with my adult muscles in this situation.  

 

Pretty much:

Quote

“Well, I’m a nurse, and it’s really, really hard to get time off work. So when you finally get time off, you really want to be somewhere you want to be,” Randolph told WSOC-TV.

“Some people’s vacations are ruined. They were only going for a couple of nights. Now, they have to get rebooked,” added Stephanie Krzywanski. “Nobody likes it. Nobody wants to sit around and do this, but you’ve got to follow the rules.”

 

21 minutes ago, Doc said:

Aren't the airlines allowed to kick-off anyone they want, if they're not following their rules?  

 

They are, but when there are 30 of them, it's a problem of scale.   No airline wants a repeat of that Tenn. doctor thing where a guy is dragged down the aisle breaking his nose and getting concussed. much less x30 and involving kids.  That would be lawsuit city.

 

1 hour ago, sherpa said:

The airline is not a law enforcement organization.

Are they supposed to sit everyone down and have an illegal hearing?

Airport cops are not staffed enough to handle this either. Nor do they want to.

Thirty kids to handle and decide who stays and who goes. Way too much work and way too much time and would undoubtedly result in lawsuits.

Are they to take statements from the other passengers?

"Mommy and Daddy" are not going to come from Boston to Charlotte to pick them up, so do you fly them back to Boston?

Not likely, and the lawyers would be overwhelming, because they'd all be individual cases.

It would be a legal quagmire.

 

What about the bags?

How long would that take to get sorted out?

How many people?

 

Charlotte had a very rough weather day that day. The airplane had already been swapped out once and that certainly took some time.

How about crew duty time limitations?

Probably not an issue, but how about destination curfew issues including customs/immigration and the current presence of Covid screeners?

 

Regarding a previous post about "teaching them a lesson," that is hardly the airlines' task.

 

The point is that it is much more complicated than it was presented in the very limited story published.

 

It's unfortunate that those not involved had to wait until the next morning, but when a group of idiots behaves like this is has effects on others.

 

 

I know as a retired pilot you have the inside scoop on this.  I get it that the airline is not a law enforcement organization.  Agree that it's not the airline's task to raise kids ie "teach them a lesson"

 

But I'm not clear on where the "sit everyone down and have an illegal hearing" part comes into  it?  Airlines have wide discretion these days to deny carriage to anyone who doesn't follow crew instructions.  Have crew go down the aisle and note the seat numbers of anyone who doesn't follow the crew instruction to be seated and place a mask over their face.  Then deplane everyone on some reason (which is what they did anyway), and reboard everyone who isn't flagged (ID'd by seat number) as not following crew instructions.

 

Again, I could be mistaken, but it seems like conflating a legal case with "illegal hearings" and statements from other passengers, with simply denying carriage to unruly pax who don't follow crew instructions, which as a legal case would get exactly .... Nowhere.

 

As it stood, Mommy and Daddy didn't come to get them and the teens wound up having to spend the night in the airport:

Quote

Adults stranded as a result of the shenanigans received hotel vouchers — but age rules for hotel bookings forced the teens to spend an uncomfortable night at the airport.

 

I "get it" that crew hours, landing slots at the destination, departure controls due to weather etc etc may have been involved.  Just sort of sounds like if the concern is "legal quagmire", leaving a bunch of teens at the airport overnight is a bit of a quagmire anyway.

 

If the teens aren't going to hotels anyway, leave their bags on the plane, and fly the bags back in the am?

 

I know I know, these things take time to sort, just seems as though logistically there should have been a better solution from a "customer relations" POV.  My guess is that there is, but the airline didn't have a plan for it because they weren't prepared for "mass mask rebellion"

 

 

[sherpa]

12 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

So I guess I'm not clear on why they couldn't unboard the plane for some reason (clean-up?), then reboard everyone who was not acting up and take off?

 

I "get it" that crew hours, landing slots at the destination, departure controls due to weather etc etc may have been involved.  Just sort of sounds like if the concern is "legal quagmire", dumping a bunch of teens at the airport overnight is a bit of a quagmire anyway.

 

You can't simply get them off and get the others on.

There are security issues and that takes time and manpower.

Again, there was a lot of off schedule stuff there because of severe storms earlier, so the manpower was undoubtedly stressed, limiting who could handle the issue.

Regarding the issue of them staying at the airport, that was the only possible solution and although it wasn't mentioned, I guarantee  that personnel were in place to watch the situation closely and protect against any other incident.

It is simply the best solution. Other proposals would have been far more risky.

Those kids were probably provided blankets, pillows and supervision.

 

27 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

Aren't the airlines allowed to kick-off anyone they want, if they're not following their rules?  

 

Yep.

If it would have been one two or maybe a few more, that's what would have happened.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

8 minutes ago, sherpa said:

You can't simply get them off and get the others on.

 

I'm only asking because I know you know something, so I'm taking a chance to become better informed: why not?  Flight attendants can correctly ID meals and drinks for rows and rows of people, they can surely ID 24-27 misbehaving pax.

 

It's my understanding that the airline's latitude to deny boarding is far larger than their latitude to get an already boarded passenger off the plane (in part, what led to the large rapid settlement in the David Dao case). 

 

Quote

There are security issues and that takes time and manpower.

 

I do "get it" that if you're denying re-boarding to a large group of people, that does have the potential to become a security incident.  But so did getting everyone off the plane.

 

Quote

Again, there was a lot of off schedule stuff there because of severe storms earlier, so the manpower was undoubtedly stressed, limiting who could handle the issue.

 

This may be the core issue.  Not enough boots hands and heads - and also as I said, probably "mass mask rebellion" not an issue the airlines had planned for.

 

Well hey y'all Airlines guess what, better plan now because some folks we have around these parts will be seeing those kids as heroes to emulate.

 

Quote

Regarding the issue of them staying at the airport, that was the only possible solution and although it wasn't mentioned, I guarantee  that personnel were in place to watch the situation closely and protect against any other incident.

It is simply the best solution. Other proposals would have been far more risky.

Those kids were probably provided blankets, pillows and supervision.

 

Good to know. 

 

Just a question of why, if the kids can be supervised safely o/n with the whole flight canceled, they couldn't be supervised o/n with just them canceled.

[frostbitmic]

Calling the Charlotte and or NC State police in seems like it would've been the best idea. They could bring in a bus to haul their sorry ***** away and the flight could've gone on. The police could've held them all until their parents drove down to pic them up. The brats should all be banned from flying for a number of years for causing a disturbance onboard an airline.

[sherpa]

Lots of issues here, and lots of corporate experience that industry had in dealing with this type of thing, and paying large sums defending their actions.

 

First, he can't simply disembark and airplane and re-board it.

There are security issues that I'm not going to go into in detail, but essentially, if you are denied, your checked bag is denied.

Not hard to connect the dots on why, but running a bag in the cargo compartment and removing it takes time.

Running, potentially, thirty of them would take a long time.

 

Second, when you attempt to decide which kids are the problem, you open yourself up to claims from those who will claim they weren't, which would probably be most or all of them. There is no time or legal apparatus to handle this at departure time when a number of clocks are ticking, unknown to passengers or readers of message boards.

 

Ergo, you get into a situation that is unsolvable in the time frame essential to solve it. 

 

Responding to another post, police have jurisdictions. You can't call a department of your choice and have them handle an airport situation.

Without arresting them, requiring cause, you can't hold them.

Providing that due cause would require witness testimony.

None of that is going to happen in the window of an airline departure.

 

The best solution is what was chosen.

I'm sure these kids viewed the results of their actions as counterproductive to their Bahama vacation.

The airline paid for hotel and meals for the other passengers.

Sucks being part of a culture that has these miscreants, but is is what it is.

 

Further, I really doubt any rational human being would view punks as "heroes to emulate," and I think upcoming court cases and fines are going to dissuade such "heroes."