US Catholic Bishops vote to rebuke pro abortion Catholic politicians

[Big Blitz]

US Catholic bishops OK steps toward possible rebuke of Biden

 

 

U.S. Catholic bishops overwhelmingly approved the drafting of a "teaching document" that many of them hope will rebuke Catholic politicians, including President Joe Biden, for receiving Communion despite their support for abortion rights.

 

The result of the vote - 168 in favor and 55 against - was announced Friday near the end of a three-day meeting of the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops that was held virtually.

 

The bishops had cast their votes privately on Thursday after nearly three hours of impassioned debate.

 

https://apnews.com/article/joe-biden-government-and-politics-religion-ea0179cd6c8eddbf66693a7e2b28e2da

[Buffalo716]

You're not a Catholic of you support abortion. Apostate at best

[Big Blitz]

Biden Budget Scraps the Hyde Amendment and allows tax payer dollars to fund abortion:

 

 

 

Biden Budget Would Scrap Decades of Consensus on Not Funding Abortion

 

 

.."In a highly controversial and divisive move, for the first time in decades, the presidential budget calls for direct taxpayer funding for elective abortions by eliminating the Hyde Amendment. Named for its sponsor, then-Rep. Henry Hyde, R-Ill., the Hyde Amendment is a pro-life “policy rider” that has been incorporated into federal spending measures on a bipartisan basis since 1976....

 

https://www.heritage.org/life/commentary/biden-budget-would-scrap-decades-consensus-not-funding-abortion

[SectionC3]

So much for love the sinner hate the sin. 

[Big Blitz]

44 minutes ago, SectionC3 said:

So much for love the sinner hate the sin. 

 

 

That's always the case.

 

If you have a mortal sin on your soul you are not supposed to receive Communion until you go to confession.

 

 

 

Every Catholic should know that abortion is a gravely serious evil, and as such is never to be supported.

 

In the Vatican's "Declaration on Procured Abortion" (Cardinal Seper, Sacred Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, 1974) there is a discussion of "Morality and Law" (#19-23). "Man may never obey a law which is in itself, immoral and such is the case of a law which would admit in principle, the liceity of abortion. Nor can he take part in a propaganda campaign in favor of such a law or vote for it. Moreover, he may not collaborate in its application. It is, for instance, inadmissible that doctors or nurses should find themselves obligated to cooperate closely in abortions and have to choose between the law of God and their professional situation." (22)

 

Pope John Paul II in "Evangelium Vitae" states "I declare that direct abortion, that is, abortion willed as an end or as a means, always constitutes a grave moral disorder, since it is the deliberate killing of an innocent human being. ... No circumstance, no purpose, no law whatsoever can ever make licit an act which is intrinsically illicit, since it is contrary to the law of God which is written in every human heart, knowable by reason itself and proclaimed by the Church" (EV 62C).

 

"The 1917 Code of Canon Law punished abortion with excommunication. The revised canonical legislation continues this tradition when it decrees that a person who actually procures an abortion incurs automatic (Latae sententiae) excommunication" (Canon 1398) " The excommunication affects all those who commit this crime with knowledge of the penalty attached and thus includes those accomplices without whose help the crime would not have been committed" (Canon 1329).

 

https://www.ewtn.com/catholicism/library/sin-to-vote-for-proabortion-politicians-2739

[GETTOTHE50]

It’s very sad to withhold the Eucharist from someone. As much as I can’t stand Joe, it still hurts to see that he may not be able to receive. I do back the church on this though as I think it’s probably the right thing to do. Abortion is among one of the most evil things men has ever done. And it’s very bizarre and upsetting for a Catholic person to support it. 

[Niagara Bill]

2 hours ago, GETTOTHE50 said:

It’s very sad to withhold the Eucharist from someone. As much as I can’t stand Joe, it still hurts to see that he may not be able to receive. I do back the church on this though as I think it’s probably the right thing to do. Abortion is among one of the most evil things men has ever done. And it’s very bizarre and upsetting for a Catholic person to support it. 

I am Catholic, and can think for myself and I do not need the preaching of bishops who think pedophilia is ok and cover up is not lying. In 1500's this church tried to take over the world and supported slavery. This church refused to accept divorce and would not allow battered women who divorced an abusive husband to take communion. Your married partner could commit murder and be forgiven but divorce or abortion cannot. 

Changes in the church move to slowly in this age. 

I will continue to love the Lord, and enjoy attending church services, but I will not blindly listen to doctrine from these men. A church who does not even  see women as equals in 2021.

I think it is possible to be devoted and  disagree with these mear mortals.

It also saddens me to hear of this decision.

[Orlando Tim]

1 hour ago, Niagara Bill said:

I am Catholic, and can think for myself and I do not need the preaching of bishops who think pedophilia is ok and cover up is not lying. In 1500's this church tried to take over the world and supported slavery. This church refused to accept divorce and would not allow battered women who divorced an abusive husband to take communion. Your married partner could commit murder and be forgiven but divorce or abortion cannot. 

Changes in the church move to slowly in this age. 

I will continue to love the Lord, and enjoy attending church services, but I will not blindly listen to doctrine from these men. A church who does not even  see women as equals in 2021.

I think it is possible to be devoted and  disagree with these mear mortals.

It also saddens me to hear of this decision.

The church is not pure but you must truly hate yourself if you are a Catholic but believe the overarching church supports pedophilia. The greatest stain on the church during my lifetime is allowing priests to move around after being caught. Abortion is another topic if you believe life begins at conception, since you are taking a life. I don't have a good new law to protect both the mother and child because there are proper reasons for it and I don't trust politicians with something so important but the casual way some people go about it is wrong.

[Another Fan]

I'm Catholic but the Church has so many skeletons in their closet for me to really take them serious when it comes to these matters.

 

 

Anyway maybe once the Church starts paying taxes they can have a political opinion....  division of Church and State 

[Niagara Bill]

12 minutes ago, Buffalo Timmy said:

The church is not pure but you must truly hate yourself if you are a Catholic but believe the overarching church supports pedophilia. The greatest stain on the church during my lifetime is allowing priests to move around after being caught. Abortion is another topic if you believe life begins at conception, since you are taking a life. I don't have a good new law to protect both the mother and child because there are proper reasons for it and I don't trust politicians with something so important but the casual way some people go about it is wrong.

Tim. I do not hate myself, but I do see where the overarching clergy supported pedophilia or turned their back with knowledge or failed to challenge the support when it was discovered. Even us as members have not taken the church to task. Heck, if a politician was to react like that it would be on this site in 30 seconds and their support would immediately be ended.

I understand the casual and dangerous ways of abortion and I have very personal thoughts and views on this subject and scourge in some areas.

I find it alarming we have at least a good degree of agreement here. Wow.

Maybe you are not such a bad guy after all. 😀

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

3 hours ago, Niagara Bill said:

 

I think it is possible to be devoted and  disagree with these mear mortals.

It also saddens me to hear of this decision.

Unless things have changed since I went to CCD, independent thought wasn’t part of the equation and that’s in spite of numerous examples of at minimum conflicting ideals and more appropriately flat out hypocrisy. 
 

Abortion is a tough topic, while I hope everyone agrees it is a horrible process, with almost 8 billion people on earth, it’s hard to rationalize how it’s this amazing incredible miracle for a sperm to fertilize an egg after two people get together. 
 

The cold reality is Unwanted children that are  forced into the world by law don’t have great odds at any kind of future. 

[Chef Jim]

13 hours ago, SectionC3 said:

So much for love the sinner hate the sin. 

Hate hypocrisy hate the hypocrite is my motto.  

[SectionC3]

52 minutes ago, Chef Jim said:

Hate hypocrisy hate the hypocrite is my motto.  

Probably a lot of self-loathing in your life.  Sad. 

[Big Blitz]

The NFL and NFLPA lied and covered up the dangers of concussions for years.  

 

Totally think the players should shut up, follow protocol and take the experimental vaccine.  

 

 

If your standard for following the teachings, leadership, council, or whatever in society is "yea but you did some really shady and evil stuff before so I can ignore you," then society collapses.  Suddenly there are very few institutions or people you should listen to. 

 

 

[reddogblitz]

It is somewhat hypocritical of the Catholic Church since Jesus preached about love the sinner, forgiveness etc.

 

But it also seems odd that President Biden goes to their church and sits in the front row when he knows they think abortion is murder, and then works to further it in the world the other 6 days of the week.  Some true mental gymnastics going on here.

[sherpa]

55 minutes ago, reddogblitz said:

It is somewhat hypocritical of the Catholic Church since Jesus preached about love the sinner, forgiveness etc.

 

Not sure what your point is here.

Forgiveness is based on admitting an activity is sinful, and seeking to eliminate it.

The Catholic Church believes that abortion is eliminating human life.

Continuing to support it does not meet the requirement for "forgiveness," your term.

 

 

[reddogblitz]

21 minutes ago, sherpa said:

 

Not sure what your point is here.

Forgiveness is based on admitting an activity is sinful, and seeking to eliminate it.

The Catholic Church believes that abortion is eliminating human life.

Continuing to support it does not meet the requirement for "forgiveness," your term.

 

 

 

Good point.

 

I admit I picked that term rather haphazardly.  However, there is still time.

 

My main point was really the second paragraph.  How does a man go to a notoriously anti abortion church, sit in the front row, take communion etc and then propose a budget striking down the Hyde Amendment the next day?

[Wacka]

Because he is senile.

[Sundancer]

33 minutes ago, reddogblitz said:

 

Good point.

 

I admit I picked that term rather haphazardly.  However, there is still time.

 

My main point was really the second paragraph.  How does a man go to a notoriously anti abortion church, sit in the front row, take communion etc and then propose a budget striking down the Hyde Amendment the next day?

People are complicated. Anyone who is not a hypocrite about something is a liar. 
 

I loved my grandfather. My grandfather was a solid racist. Life isn’t simple. 

Edited June 19, 2021 by Sundancer

[sherpa]

9 minutes ago, Wacka said:

Because he is senile.

 

Maybe because he is a career politician, wherein getting votes trumps ideological belief, when ideological belief might cost votes.

It is theologically incongruent to claim to be Catholic and yet support abortion.

The two cannot coexist.

 

Biden is, first and foremost, a politician.

His Catholic claim is a convenient exercise.

You can't have it both ways.

[Wacka]

why can'r he be senile too?

[Sundancer]

52 minutes ago, sherpa said:

 

Maybe because he is a career politician, wherein getting votes trumps ideological belief, when ideological belief might cost votes.

It is theologically incongruent to claim to be Catholic and yet support abortion.

The two cannot coexist.

 

Biden is, first and foremost, a politician.

His Catholic claim is a convenient exercise.

You can't have it both ways.

There are Catholics who have doubts about God’s existence. People aren’t simple. 

[BillStime]

3 hours ago, reddogblitz said:

It is somewhat hypocritical of the Catholic Church since Jesus preached about love the sinner, forgiveness etc.

 

But it also seems odd that President Biden goes to their church and sits in the front row when he knows they think abortion is murder, and then works to further it in the world the other 6 days of the week.  Some true mental gymnastics going on here.

Um a lot of Catholics get abortions and still go to church every week.

[Doc Brown]

I assume the bishops are fine with the death penalty then.

[716er]

This is pretty silly. If these bishops are serious why not extend to every pro-choice Catholic?

 

 

[reddogblitz]

4 hours ago, BillStime said:

Um a lot of Catholics get abortions and still go to church every week.

 

The technical term for that and what President Biden does is Cafeteria Catholics.

Edited June 20, 2021 by reddogblitz

[Big Blitz]

[Big Blitz]

3 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

I assume the bishops are fine with the death penalty then.

 

 

As of now, not Doctrine.  Unless Francis would like to clarify.  As of now, Pope Paul's clarification is the teaching:

 

 

 

Pope St. John Paul II favored the abolition of capital punishment. However, the catechism he promulgated nevertheless taught that the death penalty can be legitimate “if this is the only possible way of effectively defending human lives against the unjust aggressor.” Moreover, the pope’s doctrinal spokesman Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, who went on to become Pope Benedict XVI, made it clear that John Paul’s call for abolition reflected a prudential judgment with which faithful Catholics need not agree. In a 2004 memorandum, the cardinal wrote that “if a Catholic were to be at odds with the Holy Father on the application of capital punishment… he would not for that reason be considered unworthy to present himself to receive Holy Communion,” and that “there may be a legitimate diversity of opinion even among Catholics about… applying the death penalty.”

 

Pope Francis has taken a harder line against capital punishment than his predecessors. He has vigorously and repeatedly denounced the practice in public addresses, and has altered the catechism so that it now declares the death penalty flatly “inadmissible” and calls for “its abolition worldwide.” John Paul II’s exception has been removed. Some Catholic opponents of capital punishment appeal to these developments as proof that all Catholics are now obligated to favor its abolition – that there can no longer be the “legitimate diversity of opinion” spoken of by then-Cardinal Ratzinger. They label those who still support the death penalty “dissenters” and attribute to them disreputable motives, such as bloodlust or a political agenda.

 

But there are serious problems with this view (apart from the obvious one that the latter accusations are just cheap ad hominem attacks). For one thing, when one reads Pope Francis’s statements about the death penalty carefully, it turns out to be difficult to interpret them in a way that would make assent to them binding on Catholics. For another, if Catholic opponents of the death penalty were consistent in their appeal to these statements, then they would have to accept some further conclusions that it seems few of them do accept – and that it would be difficult for any faithful Catholic to accept. I will explain what I have in mind by setting out three questions that any intellectually honest Catholic has to address before he can claim that all Catholics are obligated to oppose capital punishment:

 

1. Does Pope Francis’s teaching on capital punishment amount to a doctrinal change or merely a prudential judgment?

There are two possible interpretations of Pope Francis’s teaching on the death penalty. Either he intends to revise the relevant doctrinal principles, or he intends merely to make a prudential judgment about how best to apply existing doctrinal principles to current circumstances. But on neither interpretation can Catholics be obligated to assent to his position (as opposed to merely giving it respectful consideration).....

 

https://www.catholicworldreport.com/2020/10/07/three-questions-for-catholic-opponents-of-capital-punishment/

[Chef Jim]

20 hours ago, SectionC3 said:

Probably a lot of self-loathing in your life.  Sad. 

Oh yes a ton. You sure have me pegged.  
 

Not sure where you get that from this post. I suggest you stay with the legal field. Psychology ain’t your cup o’ tea. 🙄

[Tiberius]

14 hours ago, Wacka said:

why can'r he be senile too?

Did you know that you are senile? 

[Wacka]

Remember JPII was a seminar student during WWII.

[Tiberius]

Is the Catholic Church also still against birth control? 

 

 

[ALF]

No matter what Biden thinks he can't overrule the Supreme Court on abortion.

[Tiberius]

10 hours ago, Big Blitz said:

 

 

As of now, not Doctrine.  Unless Francis would like to clarify.  As of now, Pope Paul's clarification is the teaching:

 

 

 

Pope St. John Paul II favored the abolition of capital punishment. However, the catechism he promulgated nevertheless taught that the death penalty can be legitimate “if this is the only possible way of effectively defending human lives against the unjust aggressor.” Moreover, the pope’s doctrinal spokesman Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, who went on to become Pope Benedict XVI, made it clear that John Paul’s call for abolition reflected a prudential judgment with which faithful Catholics need not agree. In a 2004 memorandum, the cardinal wrote that “if a Catholic were to be at odds with the Holy Father on the application of capital punishment… he would not for that reason be considered unworthy to present himself to receive Holy Communion,” and that “there may be a legitimate diversity of opinion even among Catholics about… applying the death penalty.”

 

Pope Francis has taken a harder line against capital punishment than his predecessors. He has vigorously and repeatedly denounced the practice in public addresses, and has altered the catechism so that it now declares the death penalty flatly “inadmissible” and calls for “its abolition worldwide.” John Paul II’s exception has been removed. Some Catholic opponents of capital punishment appeal to these developments as proof that all Catholics are now obligated to favor its abolition – that there can no longer be the “legitimate diversity of opinion” spoken of by then-Cardinal Ratzinger. They label those who still support the death penalty “dissenters” and attribute to them disreputable motives, such as bloodlust or a political agenda.

 

But there are serious problems with this view (apart from the obvious one that the latter accusations are just cheap ad hominem attacks). For one thing, when one reads Pope Francis’s statements about the death penalty carefully, it turns out to be difficult to interpret them in a way that would make assent to them binding on Catholics. For another, if Catholic opponents of the death penalty were consistent in their appeal to these statements, then they would have to accept some further conclusions that it seems few of them do accept – and that it would be difficult for any faithful Catholic to accept. I will explain what I have in mind by setting out three questions that any intellectually honest Catholic has to address before he can claim that all Catholics are obligated to oppose capital punishment:

 

1. Does Pope Francis’s teaching on capital punishment amount to a doctrinal change or merely a prudential judgment?

There are two possible interpretations of Pope Francis’s teaching on the death penalty. Either he intends to revise the relevant doctrinal principles, or he intends merely to make a prudential judgment about how best to apply existing doctrinal principles to current circumstances. But on neither interpretation can Catholics be obligated to assent to his position (as opposed to merely giving it respectful consideration).....

 

https://www.catholicworldreport.com/2020/10/07/three-questions-for-catholic-opponents-of-capital-punishment/

Do you agree with the Church that Birth Control is a sin? 

[BillStime]

 

[BillStime]

 

[Big Blitz]

1 hour ago, Tiberius said:

Do you agree with the Church that Birth Control is a sin? 

 

Yes.  

10 minutes ago, BillStime said:

 

 

 

 

 

So Ted admits abortion is wrong and a sin.  Just wants to make sure all mortal sinners are treated equal.

 

Thanks Ted.  Appreciate it.  

 

I'll have the Bishops look into those 3 guys as soon as I can.  

 

Btw did Newt get an annulment?  Does he even go to mass?  Why should I care Ted?   

Edited June 20, 2021 by Big Blitz

[BillStime]

8 minutes ago, Big Blitz said:

 

Yes.  

 

 

 

 

So Ted admits abortion is wrong and a sin.  Just wants to make sure all mortal sinners are treated equal.

 

Thanks Ted.  Appreciate it.  

 

I'll have the Bishops look into those 3 guys as soon as I can.  

 

Btw did Newt get an annulment?  Does he even go to mass?  Why should I care Ted?   

Sit kneel stand - Sit kneel stand.
 

What a sense of community - what a religion - no wonder it’s dying - just like the GOP.

[Another Fan]

I remember reading this a teenager and it still holds for some laughs some almost 20 years later.  From Maddox the angry Pirate.

 

A very cynical and satirical piece on politicians on abortion.  I emphasize the word satirical here!!!

 

http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=regressive

 

He's against abortion but pro killing babies lol

 

 

[Chef Jim]

22 hours ago, reddogblitz said:

It is somewhat hypocritical of the Catholic Church since Jesus preached about love the sinner, forgiveness etc.

 

But it also seems odd that President Biden goes to their church and sits in the front row when he knows they think abortion is murder, and then works to further it in the world the other 6 days of the week.  Some true mental gymnastics going on here.

He’s a cafeteria catholic. Who cares.  Abortion is murder is an opinion by the church. I am extremely agnostic but agree with the church on that point.  The fact that Biden disagrees should have no baring on how he is judged.  

2 hours ago, Tiberius said:

Do you agree with the Church that Birth Control is a sin? 

Funny. Another subject you are very wrong about.