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Can Patriots challenge with run first offense this year?


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24 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

I said McCarron because of the Alabama connection, i.e. having amazing talent surrounding them.  Doesn't matter where he was picked in the draft.

 

Yes but honestly McCarron was nothing like Jones in college. 

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You can make the playoffs but can't win the Super Bowl with a run first or smashmouth offense.  It's a relic of a dead era, the rules advantage passing offenses, and if that cheating ***** wants to go

Bill Belichick's coaching hallmark has always been game planning to identify an opponents' weakness and adjusting his offensive or defensive scheme week to week to exploit those weaknesses.  As offens

thats a cool, long story.    they suck without Brady    

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8 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

Yes but honestly McCarron was nothing like Jones in college. 

 

McCarron was good but had nowhere near the talent on offense that Jones did.

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1 minute ago, Doc said:

 

McCarron was good but had nowhere near the talent on offense that Jones did.

 

McCarron wasn't close to the prospect Jones is. I'd be stunned if Mac Jones doesn't have a better career than McCarron as a pro. 

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Just now, GunnerBill said:

McCarron wasn't close to the prospect Jones is. I'd be stunned if Mac Jones doesn't have a better career than McCarron as a pro. 

 

Well, considering Jones is going to a better franchise than McCarron did...

 

But it will be interesting to see what becomes of him, Wilson and Tua.

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1 minute ago, Doc said:

 

Well, considering Jones is going to a better franchise than McCarron did...

 

But it will be interesting to see what becomes of him, Wilson and Tua.

 

Wilson is the most talented of that triumvirate in my mind, without question, but he is going to the worst situation and so he has the most to overcome (though I like Joe Douglas and Saleh more than I have liked any Jets GM-HC combo in my time following the league, if they get left alone to do the job I think they will make them competitive). I don't think either Jones or Tua have the ceiling to become elite level guys. 

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Page 5 of this thread and nobody has mentioned that the Patriots lost their best O-Lineman and best run blocker this year, Joe Thuney?

The Chiefs gave him an $80 Million contract over 5 years. That's how good he was.

 

It's a huge loss and all of these flashy signings don't counteract the massive loss they took. They got worse, not better.

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17 minutes ago, Rigotz said:

Page 5 of this thread and nobody has mentioned that the Patriots lost their best O-Lineman and best run blocker this year, Joe Thuney?

The Chiefs gave him an $80 Million contract over 5 years. That's how good he was.

 

It's a huge loss and all of these flashy signings don't counteract the massive loss they took. They got worse, not better.

 

Hey Rigotz,

 

Just a few links / articles to check out on Onwenu who replaced Thuney when Thuney slided to center last year.  Admittedly, I didn't hear a lot about him last year but this off season I have been looking at the Pats, Jets, and Phins a bit closer and Onwenu was a steal in the 6th round for the Pats last year.  I think Onwenu's play was one reason they felt comfortable letting Thuney move on.

 

I think you make a valid point, losing a lineman like Thuney can be a challenge for any team, but it looks like they already have someone on the roster to help mitigate that loss on a cheap 6th round rookie contract.  That will help take some of the sting out of it.

 

 

https://www.patspulpit.com/2021/1/8/22220216/patriots-michael-onwenu-pro-football-focus-2020-all-rookie-team

 

https://www.pff.com/nfl/players/michael-onwenu/27357

 

https://www.si.com/nfl/patriots/news/onwenu-biggest-surprise-2020-draft-class

 

https://chowderandchampions.com/2020/10/09/new-england-patriots-michael-onwenu-dominating-best-rookie/

 

https://patriotswire.usatoday.com/lists/projecting-the-patriots-starters-on-offense-for-2021/

 

🍻

 

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19 minutes ago, Rigotz said:

Page 5 of this thread and nobody has mentioned that the Patriots lost their best O-Lineman and best run blocker this year, Joe Thuney?

The Chiefs gave him an $80 Million contract over 5 years. That's how good he was.

 

It's a huge loss and all of these flashy signings don't counteract the massive loss they took. They got worse, not better.

I agree. Yeah I'm not concerned about the Pats. Don't know if they got any worse, but don't think they got better either. I see them as a .500 team at best.

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52 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 I don't think either Jones or Tua have the ceiling to become elite level guys. 

Mac Jones - Coming to the NFL

 

I think Jones is the steal of the draft.

A few quotes:

 

“Jones became so confident in Alabama’s offense while running the scout team that he again took control of his own situation. During a run-heavy period against the first-team defense, which was stacking the line to prepare for a future opponent, Jones decided to take advantage. 

Rather than running the plays off the coaches’ cards, Jones checked the routes and protections at the line, and he beat the defense for deep ball after deep ball. The scout team let the starters hear it, too, cheering and dancing toward the sideline. 

The defense complained to Saban. 

Saban barked at Jones. 

Jones told Saban if he didn’t like it to tell his defense to stop it. 

“Competitive as hell. He’s not afraid to go out there and ruffle feathers,” Key said. “That was a sign early that he has the football IQ, instincts and the ability to do those things. He also had the respect for coach Saban, but at the same time the no-fear aspect of it.”


During Covid lockdown...

”He bought a throwing net for his apartment. Jones set it up in his living room, which was the size of a one-car garage, took a bag of 40 balls outside, opened the windows and fired pass after pass. 

When he was allowed back at the football facility, he’d head there every night until 11 p.m. to set up targets and throw more balls. He taught the offense to his girlfriend, so she could call out plays and he could process the reads and any checks at the line. He usually woke up by 5:30 a.m. to watch film at the facility, especially Sunday mornings when he knew he’d have the building to himself. 

Jones meticulously took notes of every game of his Alabama career, including those he didn’t play, using a pen with six colors – red ink for the red zone, green ink for the green area, other colors for third downs, backed-up situations and so on. He filled up a notebook for each opponent and neatly labeled everything in order to find specific pages as quickly as possible. It’s been said Jones has a photographic memory, so if a past situation presented itself on the field in real time, he wanted to be ready to pounce.”

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1 hour ago, jangalang said:

Mac Jones - Coming to the NFL

 

He also had the respect for coach Saban, but at the same time the no-fear aspect of it.”

 

 

I think this is the biggest reason Jones is going to succeed in New England.  Mac Jones is used to hard nosed coaching under Saban and nothing is going to change in New England.  Jones isn't going to wilt or pull a Wentz and start to sulk when Belichick routinely puts a boot in his azz in practice in front of the team to make him better.  And just like when Brady took the abuse from Bill for years, it gives Bill license to treat everyone else that way too.  If the QB is going to take it without complaint, everyone else better just shut their mouth and fall in line too...

 

It was one of the reasons Brady excelled in New England because he was that rare QB to become an elite level player and still be willing to accept that hard coaching.  Look at Rodgers pouting right now just because his team didn't draft the people he wanted.  Imagine a young Rodgers in New England getting nuked in every practice in front of the whole team.  He wouldn't have excelled with Bill, he'd have been out of the league in 5 years. 

 

It's a fun parlor game to debate Tom vs Bill, but the truth of the matter is that they were perfect together, and better together than either would have been without the other.   A coach who could craft a great QB with hard nosed coaching, and a QB with the ability to be great who could accept that style of coaching.

 

I see that same quality in Mac Jones.  I think he is going to be really good in New England. 

 

 

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Posted (edited)
19 hours ago, Rocky Landing said:

For example: If Cam starts the season, and somewhere in mid-season Mac Jones takes over, how well is their offense going to be able to adjust? . . . .

 

 If he starts Mac on day one, that dude is going to flounder, no matter who they face (please, God (Goodell), let it be us!). If they switch mid-season, they will have to have an entirely different scheme dialed up.

I actually want the Pats** in week 2, and in Foxboro.

 

I dont want them to have all off-season to prepare for us.  I want them to have only 1 week.

 

I'm guessing that our 2nd Pats* game will be after their bye, so they can have a full 2 weeks to transition from Cam to Jones (since that is the best time to work an new QB in).  But most likely, the NFL will give them a cupcake instead.  Jests?

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57 minutes ago, maddenboy said:

I actually want the Pats** in week 2, and in Foxboro.

 

I dont want them to have all off-season to prepare for us.  I want them to have only 1 week.

 

I'm guessing that our 2nd Pats* game will be after their bye, so they can have a full 2 weeks to transition from Cam to Jones (since that is the best time to work an new QB in).  But most likely, the NFL will give them a cupcake instead.  Jests?

Nah, not me. I want them in week one, and I want to rub their noses in a season-opening loss.

 

I keep hearing about how they've upgraded on offense, and especially at receiver. But, I'm looking at a bunch of their WRs walking out the door, Edelman is gone, Burkhead is gone, their O-line is worse, and they've added a red-zone threat in Jonnu Smith, and their #1 WR is going to be... Nelson Agholor??? With N'Keal "Straight Line" Harry as their #2? Whether it's week one, or two, and whether it's Cam, or Mac, they aren't going to be a better team. A week one destruction of the Pats* would be a real nice start to our season... and theirs.

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On 5/9/2021 at 2:56 PM, ChronicAndKnuckles said:

 

Tom Brady isn't single-handedly responsible for all of their titles 

 

 

 
lmao 😂     They win nothing without Tom. 
 

Chill 

 

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12 hours ago, Doc said:

 

Yes I understand football and the importance of great players.  Especially at the QB position.  The question is: do you? 

 

The other question is: do you think the Cheaters have one?  

 

Off your first question to me alone. I am not gonna dignified it with an answer. We have had many back n forths. Again this is something you should know.

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22 hours ago, Rocky Landing said:

Well, if you're going to accuse me of having come to a "conclusion," I might ask you to reference a dictionary, and look up the word "maybe." Also, I have to confess-- your phrase, "Nothing that happened last year indicates BB was along for the ride," makes zero sense to me. What the hell are you talking about?

 

Be that as it may, yes. By all means. I'll happily give Belichick* a couple more seasons of what looks to me like poor team management. And, in all honesty, I can't decide which QB I would like the Bills to face in their first game vs. the Pats*, Cam, or Mac. I can't imagine having a whole lotta faith in either of them.

 

 

Accuse you? You aren't on trial here so I don't know if "accuse" is the right word you should be using in this context. It's not that serious .

 

And as you wrote in your very very long dictation. It's not hard for anyone to assume something and then look for any clarification.

 

And yes you should want to face anyone. Since you are just a fan, you aren't out there game planning or playing anyone.

 

I am sure the bills don't see facing the pats as a cake walk, but some fans here seem to act like after just one season its now the bills who will be dominating for 20 plus years...

 

That last sentence I probably shouldn't of said. I don't want to "accuse" you of anything.

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Just now, Ghost_002! said:

Off your first question to me alone. I am not gonna dignified it with an answer. We have had many back n forths. Again this is something you should know.

 

Hate to break it to you sport but everyone knows that great players help make coaches look better, especially QBs.  It's the reason why I pointed-out Belicheat's lousy record without a QB you guys were always quick to say was the greatest QB in NFL history.  Now he's a guy who was made by Belicheat and who can easily be replaced. :rolleyes:

 

The fact of the matter is that with Brady winning the SB with the Bucs the year after leaving Cheaterland and "the greatest coach ever" taking his team to a losing season (as has been his wont) despite having a former 1st overall pick and NFL MVP, people are already starting to say it was mostly Brady.  We'll see if Mac Jones is good enough to change that narrative.

 

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13 minutes ago, Ghost_002! said:

 

 

Accuse you? You aren't on trial here so I don't know if "accuse" is the right word you should be using in this context. It's not that serious .

 

And as you wrote in your very very long dictation. It's not hard for anyone to assume something and then look for any clarification.

 

And yes you should want to face anyone. Since you are just a fan, you aren't out there game planning or playing anyone.

 

I am sure the bills don't see facing the pats as a cake walk, but some fans here seem to act like after just one season its now the bills who will be dominating for 20 plus years...

 

That last sentence I probably shouldn't of said. I don't want to "accuse" you of anything.

Of course the Bills don't see the Pats* as a "cake walk," especially with them being a division opponent. They don't look at any game as a cake walk. That is part of the culture of a winning team, IMO. They didn't look at the Jets last season as a cake walk. 

 

This coming season, in no particular order, the Bills will face:

  • Patriots (twice)
  • Dolphins (twice)
  • Jets (twice)
  • Falcons
  • Panthers
  • Texans
  • Colts
  • Steelers
  • WFT
  • Jags
  • Saints
  • Bucs
  • Titans
  • Chiefs

Of those fourteen teams, and without getting into the variable of home vs. away, I would put the Pats* right around the middle in terms of "teams to worry about." I would certainly put the Dolphins as the more worrisome division opponent, and I wouldn't be surprised to end up, by mid-season, finding the Jets to be more of a threat, as well. 

 

But, getting back to the gist of our discussion, I would agree that one season is too short a timespan to draw definitive conclusions on who had a more profound impact on their team. That would be utterly simplistic. However, it is indisputable that when Brady* went to Tampa Bay, he led a team that had previously gone 7-9 to the Super Bowl, and the Patriots*, who had previously finished 12-4, sunk to 7-9.  That is a compelling statistic.

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On 5/7/2021 at 10:07 PM, Inigo Montoya said:

I think Bill is going against the grain and is returning to smash mouth football and trying to build an offense that will take advantage of defenses built to stop the pass.  He doesn't have an elite QB on his roster and he knows he isn't going to win a shootout without Tom Brady under center.  I think he knows that low scoring games are going to give his team as its currently constituted the best chance to win. He wants to run the ball, chew clock, win time of possession, get turnovers on defense, and win games like they did 20 years ago.  He wants to win games 21-17.

...

 

The two big questions are how successful can this run first strategy be across a 17 game season in today's NFL for New England?  Can they win enough games this way to challenge for the AFCE title and make a deep playoff run?  The other question as Bills' fans is, how will our defense stack up against this run first philosophy?   Run defense has been a weakness at times for McDermott and Frazier's defenses.  Bill knows the best way to beat QBs like Mahomes and Allen is to keep them sitting on the bench.  It will be interesting to see how Belichick's run first gambit plays out this year.

Good post and I think you are spot on.

I am not thrilled at our prospects of stopping their new offense; I also think the new FAs and Cams skillset make it clear we are looking at an early Tom Brady offense.

Now, the thing I am happy about is that I do not trust Cam and we have a guy now who can handle the Belichik defenses.

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6 hours ago, Inigo Montoya said:

 

I think this is the biggest reason Jones is going to succeed in New England.  Mac Jones is used to hard nosed coaching under Saban and nothing is going to change in New England.  Jones isn't going to wilt or pull a Wentz and start to sulk when Belichick routinely puts a boot in his azz in practice in front of the team to make him better.  And just like when Brady took the abuse from Bill for years, it gives Bill license to treat everyone else that way too.  If the QB is going to take it without complaint, everyone else better just shut their mouth and fall in line too...

 

It was one of the reasons Brady excelled in New England because he was that rare QB to become an elite level player and still be willing to accept that hard coaching.  Look at Rodgers pouting right now just because his team didn't draft the people he wanted.  Imagine a young Rodgers in New England getting nuked in every practice in front of the whole team.  He wouldn't have excelled with Bill, he'd have been out of the league in 5 years. 

 

It's a fun parlor game to debate Tom vs Bill, but the truth of the matter is that they were perfect together, and better together than either would have been without the other.   A coach who could craft a great QB with hard nosed coaching, and a QB with the ability to be great who could accept that style of coaching.

 

I see that same quality in Mac Jones.  I think he is going to be really good in New England. 

 

 

 

 

I agree with a lot of what you're saying here and I'm simply responding to say so.

 

The Tom vs Bill thing is kinda funny because things didn't happen differently, if they had Tom would still have been successful wherever he was and Bill would have been successful as well, but I think we can all agree that they wouldnt have been as successful.

 

Maybe it takes the Pats a few more years to find a good QB to be successful with, those coaches would be winning eventually because they know how to win.  It'll become very clear when Mac Jones takes over and the Pats are deadly again, the fun thing to watch for people who aren't fans of the Bills, Fins, and Jets will be to see if they can work towards being even in the same realm as successful as they were when they had Brady.

 

Of course the league is changing, not only has it become a passing league with Pass Int calls and unnecessary roughness etc that has limited defenses but in my opinion there are a lot more quality QB's and Coaches in the league than at any time in the leagues history.  Just look at the all the current starters and the 2-3 rooks who should pan out in some regard, I'd say half the league has QBs you can win a super bowl with;

 

Brady, Rodgers, Mahomes, Wilson, Herbert, Allen, Jackson, Carr, Tannehill, Mayfield, Burrow, Roethlisberger, Watson, Prescott, Stafford, Ryan, Murray, and some borderline guys who could be argued for and/or guys who the jury is still out on> Cousins, Goff, Wentz, Jones, Lock, Darnold, Hurts, Tua, Winston/Hill, Garroppolo

 

On my first list id say the upper echelon guys are- Mahomes, Allen, Jackson, Watson, Burrow, Rodgers, Brady, Herbert, Prescott, Stafford, Murray, Wilson, then maybe Carr, Mayfield, Ryan, Tannehill, Roth

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