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Bills opening stadium discussions with NYS and Erie County


Big Turk
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All this talk of a new convention center is a pipe dream. When I was still working I attended a yearly conference with 10,0000+ attendees.  You know what cities were in the rotation for this conference?  Vegas, San Diego, New Orleans and Orlando. You know why?   Because the destination is part of the reason to attend. Even if Buffalo had a new shiny massive convention center you know what the odds are of them ever attracting a conference like the one I mentioned above?  0.0%. 

Edited by BTB
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6 minutes ago, BTB said:

All this talk of a new convention center is a pipe dream. When I was still working I attended a yearly conference with 10,0000+ attendees.  You know what cities were in the rotation for this conference?  Vegas, San Diego, New Orleans and Orlando. You know why?   Because the destination is part of the reason to attend. Even if Buffalo had a new shiny massive convention center you know what the odds are of them ever attracting a conference like the one I mentioned above?  0.0%. 

 

10K, sure, no Buffalo. But Buffalo often gets regional gatherings. This article cites that conventions and conferences in Buffalo account for 30,000 hotel bookings a year. Is that a lot? I have no idea. But if you divide that number by 52 weeks, 577 hotel bookings a week come from conference and convention business.

 

https://www.wkbw.com/rebound/what-does-the-future-hold-for-the-buffalo-niagara-convention-center

Edited by PromoTheRobot
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5 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

Look at the post you responded to again. I quoted Lambeau prices for 2021. Cheapest seats are $118. (I don't know if that's ST or Single Game price.) But that is more than double what the Bills are charging. I believe cheapest ST is $45/game. So holding up a renovated Lambeau as an example for the Bills to keep ticket prices low doesn't jibe.

Check what prices were before the renovation, and the following season.

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6 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

Why can't the concerts play at an outdoor stadium in Spring/Summer/Fall?  How many conferences are held on the field of any domed football stadium?

Absolutely, Highmark has hosted several concerts the past few years. There aren’t a ton of stadium concert tours that take place in the winter. There simply aren’t enough domed stadiums to plan an entire stadium winter tour. Additionally, there aren’t many stadium tours these days anyway. I don’t think the future of music is in big stadium shows. Most big stadium acts are retirement age. Who knows how many of those will even be touring by the time we get a new stadium. Stadium concerts are such a rare occurrence, it’s not something I think plays a huge role. 

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On 3/31/2021 at 4:49 PM, May Day 10 said:

Pilot Field was originally designed, ready to remove the green roof and put in another deck and also expand the right field bleachers into more and permanent seating.

 

Buffalo was a finalist, along with Denver, Washington DC, and (Orlando/Miami/St Petersburg) (it was a no secret 1 of the teams was going to be put in a Florida location, it was just a matter of which one.

 

Right around the time that the Finalists were announced, I believe Rich publicly stated reservations about the cost of doing business as an MLB team including the $95 million expansion fee.  I dont believe the Riches really pursued it down to the wire.

 

It would have been a disaster here anyway and they may have been relocated by now.  Buffalo is/was too small for MLB with how the economics of the league are set.  It would be a dream for me and I would almost certainly be a STH.  The corporate dollars are not there, and the RSN fees would not be anywhere near competitive.  The Riches have enough $ to sustain losses, but they don't really seem to be willing to get their noses dirty (were very silent during Sabres and Bills sales).  

 

I still hold out hope for a miracle of a fortune 500 or 2 downtown with a revival and an MLB team.

 

 

 

 

Its a little known story, but apparently before all that, the Riches had dinner with the owner of the SF Giants.  The Giants' owner was bitching about Candlestick Park as well as the weather they had to deal with playing there.   The riches proposed moving or sharing the team in Buffalo and calling them the New York Giants.  There were a few meetings on that but it didnt get too far.

 

 

 

 

Never knew the Giants story before, that’s really interesting.

 

I heard once that MLB offered Rich the Expos before they moved to DC for something like $90 million and he turned it down.  Anyone else hear something similar?

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17 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

10K, sure, no Buffalo. But Buffalo often gets regional gatherings. This article cites that conventions and conferences in Buffalo account for 30,000 hotel bookings a year. Is that a lot? I have no idea. But if you divide that number by 52 weeks, 577 hotel bookings a week come from conference and convention business.

 

https://www.wkbw.com/rebound/what-does-the-future-hold-for-the-buffalo-niagara-convention-center

 

 

That would fill only a fraction of the 3000 new rooms that were opening as new in 2017.    There are at least 8500 rooms in the greater Buffalo area.

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1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

That would fill only a fraction of the 3000 new rooms that were opening as new in 2017.    There are at least 8500 rooms in the greater Buffalo area.

The only WNY location that’d even come close to a national attraction destination is Niagara Falls, but there seems to be very little interest in putting an indoor stadium/convention venue there. Nobody goes to a convention to look at a grain elevator on their break. They want a location with sightseeing, restaurants and other sorts of activities. The fact the American side of The Falls is so under utilized has always been a mystery to me.

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10 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

The only WNY location that’d even come close to a national attraction destination is Niagara Falls, but there seems to be very little interest in putting an indoor stadium/convention venue there. Nobody goes to a convention to look at a grain elevator on their break. They want a location with sightseeing, restaurants and other sorts of activities. The fact the American side of The Falls is so under utilized has always been a mystery to me.

 

NF-USA is a dump.  I went a few years ago to a concert at the Rapids theater a few years ago and it was a sad gauntlet driving through town.  Even the K of C was boarded up.

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5 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

NF-USA is a dump.  I went a few years ago to a concert at the Rapids theater a few years ago and it was a sad gauntlet driving through town.  Even the K of C was boarded up.

I think everyone would agree. But with such a small geographic footprint and really low real estate prices I’ve always thought it was ripe for a real estate group to swoop in and master plan a major world-class development. The centerpiece would be the stadium with convention center. 

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2 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

I think everyone would agree. But with such a small geographic footprint and really low real estate prices I’ve always thought it was ripe for a real estate group to swoop in and master plan a major world-class development. The centerpiece would be the stadium with convention center. 

 

The problem is that that scenario exists already right across the border in the other NF.  NFNY has been competing and failing with that town for years.  Investors have voted on its future:

 

image.png.7f01c62d7129734e42df1630b9686461.png

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13 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

The problem is that that scenario exists already right across the border in the other NF.  NFNY has been competing and failing with that town for years.  Investors have voted on its future:

 

image.png.7f01c62d7129734e42df1630b9686461.png

That’s true of course. But there’s still a huge opportunity on the NY side should someone want to invest in it. What’s needed is a catalyst project that cannot be created elsewhere... like an NFL Stadium. Heck, the new Los Angeles stadium is in Inglewood! If you know anything about LA you’d know that the area immediately surrounding it has been a dump for many decades. Remember, this conversation started from the convention possibilities, and I still maintain The Falls is the one national attraction that just sitting there. 

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1 minute ago, SoCal Deek said:

That’s true of course. But there’s still a huge opportunity on the NY side should someone want to invest in it. What’s needed is a catalyst project that cannot be created elsewhere... like an NFL Stadium. Heck, the new Los Angeles stadium is in Inglewood! If you know anything about LA you’d know that the area immediately surrounding it has been a dump for many decades. Remember, this conversation started from the convention possibilities, and I still maintain The Falls is the one national attraction that just sitting there. 

 

 

Inglewood was the home of the Fabulous Western Forum for years!  Plus LAX is right there--even with the new stadium, it's not a garden spot...

 

 

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Whatever the Pegulas decide I'm fine with . All that matters to me is that the Bills stay in WNY. Less expensive renovations can work as the minimum.

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5 minutes ago, ALF said:

Whatever the Pegulas decide I'm fine with . All that matters to me is that the Bills stay in WNY. Less expensive renovations can work as the minimum.

I'm sure everyone feels the same. They could play anywhere in Western New York. I don't care. 

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4 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

Inglewood was the home of the Fabulous Western Forum for years!  Plus LAX is right there--even with the new stadium, it's not a garden spot...

 

 

The Forum is still there and is a concert venue now. The new stadium is next to it on the site of old "Hollywood Park" horse track.  And yes, the site is so close the glide path for LAX that they had to build the stadium bowl down into the ground so as to keep the roof under FAA height restrictions.  The project has transformed the entire area, with new multi-family housing units going up all around the development itself.  I could see something like (on a much smaller scale) happening in Niagara Falls....but as usual politics and carpetbagger greed will get in the way.  That's the way these things always seem to go back there.

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On 4/6/2021 at 11:50 AM, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

Why can't the concerts play at an outdoor stadium in Spring/Summer/Fall?  How many conferences are held on the field of any domed football stadium?

 

If you take a look at some of the biggest tours in the nation they have been using football stadiums (Taylor Swift, Metallica, etc). Buffalo has been passed by for bigger cities because of size. Again read the study yourself to see the differences. Summer and Fall they do most of the events at the Ralph as Winter and Spring are notoriously bad for outdoor events that don't involve the Bills. You gain those two seasons back for use if it is indoor. One of the perks people don't talk about is stadium tours are really popular for new venues or in general (believe it or not you can tour the Ralph.. well could pre COVID I meant to do that). Downtown you can get many more people who are interest.

 

I am not trying to sway your opinion as much as just point out some of the advantages that have been reported with indoor use. Truthfully nothing is better as a Bills fan then a 60 degree day in October watching them play. But if a new stadium comes to pass I want them to explore every possibility and use especially because tax payers will feel it.

30 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

The Forum is still there and is a concert venue now. The new stadium is next to it on the site of old "Hollywood Park" horse track.  And yes, the site is so close the glide path for LAX that they had to build the stadium bowl down into the ground so as to keep the roof under FAA height restrictions.  The project has transformed the entire area, with new multi-family housing units going up all around the development itself.  I could see something like (on a much smaller scale) happening in Niagara Falls....but as usual politics and carpetbagger greed will get in the way.  That's the way these things always seem to go back there.

 

 

That honestly would be super cool but I doubt it ever happens now that the Pegulas own the team and the city of Buffalo has made the overtures it has to have the team downtown. Had we had different ownership that wanted the Canadian market more I think that was a real possibility.

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On 4/5/2021 at 9:32 PM, Augie said:

 

I love the stadium where it is and how it is. BUT.....as I posted earlier, if my car needs repairs that cost roughly half the cost of a new car, I’m getting a new car. 

 

We’ve been missing @Kirby Jackson for a while, but he has often explained the reasons a new stadium and the revenue streams should be expected. He knows what he’s talking about, and it made sense to me. 

 

I don’t go to an NFL game for fancy restaurants, but a former client/buddy invited us to join him at his season tix in Jacksonville. Not NYC, Dallas, Chicago or LA, but Jacksonville. The seats were outdoors, but attached to an indoor dining area where beer, wine and food were “free”. (Mixed drinks were extra.) This was not hot dogs and Bud Lite, we’re talking sautéed sea bass and quality wines. In Jacksonville! He used it to impress clients and staff, and US, and it worked! Face value of tix were $380 and that was 10-15 years ago.

 

I’ve never been to KC for a game, but hope to correct that!  Lambeau is nothing special other than the surrounding neighborhoods being so cool. The stadium is as Plain Jane as the FSU stadium. 

 

I try to attend one home game and one road game each year. The ticket price is a drop in the bucket compared to airfare, hotels, car rentals, restaurants, etc. I FULLY understand that the burden is on the season ticket holders who will feel the most pain. I get that and I feel their pain. I’ll do my part by paying more when I buy their unused seats when I come to town. 

 

The Minneapolis stadium looks AWESOME! I’d love to go to a game there. Great city! The old stadium was a dump but they got a SB that left me wanting.....

 

 

.

 

What happened to Kirby. Always enjoyed his contributions.

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6 hours ago, SoCal Deek said:

That’s true of course. But there’s still a huge opportunity on the NY side should someone want to invest in it. What’s needed is a catalyst project that cannot be created elsewhere... like an NFL Stadium. Heck, the new Los Angeles stadium is in Inglewood! If you know anything about LA you’d know that the area immediately surrounding it has been a dump for many decades. Remember, this conversation started from the convention possibilities, and I still maintain The Falls is the one national attraction that just sitting there. 

 

NFL Stadiums do nothing to rejuvenate a municipality.  Sometimes owners pine for a 'retail shopping area' built within the stadium funding which they directly benefit from.  That can be built without a stadium.

 

If you have 70,000 people in downtown NF coming or leaving around the same window of time, it is going to be a horrific traffic nightmare.  It is a landlocked peninsula of sorts without good arteries to get out of there (and Im sure the GI bridges and NF Boulevard would also be at a standstill) and people would be jumping in the river instead of sitting on the Robert Moses.  I guess if we pay more billions we can just build highways.  

 

Niagara Falls has been mismanaged by corruption and terrible politicians for decades and decades.  Gifting them a football stadium would change nothing.  Imagining Niagara County ponying up any percentage of the money also seems like an impossibility.  

 

 

A stadium wouldnt help downtown either.  You need a Fortune 500 company (or 2) to headquarter down there.  It is cart before the horse.  An MLB stadium with 81 dates could be a different story if there were decent attendance.  I also think a nice amphitheater would work out better than a Football Stadium because you would get a ton of dates between May and September.  You would put Darien Lake out of business, attract new acts, and other possibilities.

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1 hour ago, billykay said:

What happened to Kirby. Always enjoyed his contributions.

 

Reached out to him recently and he’s fine.  Taking a break, but all is well. 

 

.

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