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the missing link - an Alvin Kamara-type player


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1 minute ago, dave mcbride said:

I'll believe those RB numbers when I see it. I just don't see teams spending a lot for the decline years of RBs, especially this year given the cap decline.

Yeah, I may be inclined to agree with you...but I’d still MUCH rather draft etienne, Harris or Gainwell than pay drake or fournette 5-7 mill per.  I’d take jones on a one year deal worth 8 mill.....but he just declined a multi year deal worth 14 per....a mistake on his part imo 

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Najee Harris or Travis Etienne would look great in a Bills uniform...very likely one of them or both is available at 30.

I had been in the same exact boat as you until I realized how limited our passing game truly is without a weapon out of the backfield or a high level tight end.   We can't just go get a surefire tight

I know, I know, guys like him are hard to find. But a RB who is both a talented runner and an excellent receiver out of the backfield would take the Bills' passing game to an even higher level (not to

5 minutes ago, Victory Formation said:

My opinion on RBs haven’t changed.. never take one in the first round.. Hopefully there is a DE or TE there or we move down and save up picks.

 

At pick 30 there isn't much difference between there and the 1st pick in round 2.

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3 hours ago, dave mcbride said:

I know, I know, guys like him are hard to find. But a RB who is both a talented runner and an excellent receiver out of the backfield would take the Bills' passing game to an even higher level (not to mention the running game). The Bills' passing game is awesome, but it's awfully reliant on WRs. Is there anyone with a Kamara profile in this year's draft? If not, Kenyon Drake--a free agent who turns 27 today--would be my target. He's not Kamara, but his game is similar, and he probably has 2-3 good years left in him.  

What piece have the Saints been missing since they added Kamara?

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1 hour ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Ok.........but did any of those teams have a lead RB they had spent a first round pick on or had paid a lot for in UFA?

 

They didn't and the Bills can fix their running game without doing that as well.

 

I think my first step in improving the running game is replacing Mitch Morse with Jon Feliciano at center.  

 

Morse was done a disservice being moved to center by KC.   He got the one excellent contract but that's a guy who probably could have had a much longer career as a very athletic right tackle.   

 

No....but the majority of those teams won with great-very good defenses. I don’t see our defense being in either of those categories next season.  
 

If we plan on winning a SB we need to outscore the chiefs.  Period.  The teams you listed didn’t have to beat the chiefs. It’s a much different situation. They are as close to unstoppable on O as we’ve seen. The vaunted SF D almost held them in check.....until the chiefs had to score....and they scored at will when they needed to.  
 

I have always agreed with your assessment regarding 1st rd RBs.  I think the chiefs have changed my mind.  We need to out score them.  Maybe we can get another gamebreaking type rb in rd 3 or 4.....but there a some RBs in rd 1-2 than I know can take our O to another level.  

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16 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

Well, Sony Michel, who was legit good in 2018. Seattle got a top ten draft pick for a song (Lynch), and I'm down for that if such a player is available for trade. I'm not saying spend a first rounder or early second rounder on a RB, by the way. That was never my point, but it can be a wise expenditure in certain situations.  

 

 

Meh-chel is more like it.

 

Devin Singletary was better as a rookie and has been much more efficient in the NFL than Michel.    Much better in that pass game in particular.    Michel was a very regrettable use of a draft pick..............they had been finding better RB production from everywhere except using a high pick for such a long time.........so I was quite pleased when they made it.:D   

 

Lynch was a top 10 pick by a dumb drafting Buffalo team..........his career turned out to be near HOF level but it's important to note........that was made possible by going to a place that didn't have to use a top pick on him.    

 

I think the situation where it can be a wise expenditure is exceptional.    This isn't one of those situations, IMO.   It would be nice to have but it's not worth a blue personnel chip or a market contract.    

 

18 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

A referee who doesn't make one of the worst non-calls ever, for one. 

 

 

The refs bailed them out the week before against Foles and the Eagles.    Eagles were the better team at that point......the Saints shouldn't even have been in that game versus Rams.  The Saints came up small time after time in recent years in the playoffs.

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3 hours ago, Big Turk said:

Najee Harris or Travis Etienne would look great in a Bills uniform...very likely one of them or both is available at 30.

I think Harris is going to Miami, he’s been on there radar for sometime now. Etienne I can see as a more realistic option for us but that all depends where we’re picking in the draft and if he’ll still be there when our number is called

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37 minutes ago, NewEra said:

I agree.....if we were picking too 15ish.  Love your takes miyagi.....not this one.  Not with this team we have 
 

We’re picking #30 and if etienne or Harris were to be there at 30, they WOULD be BPA.  Why would you call them a gadget guy or niche players?  That’s a terrible take on the players being discussed.


our offense was stopped because no one is scared of Motor or Yeldon. Moss isn’t much better.  The chiefs will line up and play us the same exact way next year if we don’t have a threat in the backfield.  Harris or Etienne would get more touches than Diggs.....that’s not gadget Or niche  


i think we are mostly on the same page. I just want to avoid a reach. If Etienne is there and he is BPA, take him.  I think you will find the successful teams at the bottom of the draft stay true to their draft boards. 
But based on where we are drafting, we can’t afford to reach on guys. 
 

That said, my separate (though related) point is that you shouldn’t reach, because you can find good RB’s elsewhere, including as even UDFA’s. There are a lot of RB’s diamonds in the rough. 

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13 minutes ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:


i think we are mostly on the same page. I just want to avoid a reach. If Etienne is there and he is BPA, take him.  I think you will find the successful teams at the bottom of the draft stay true to their draft boards. 
But based on where we are drafting, we can’t afford to reach on guys. 
 

That said, my separate (though related) point is that you shouldn’t reach, because you can find good RB’s elsewhere, including as even UDFA’s. There are a lot of RB’s diamonds in the rough. 

Yeah.....while I don’t have a draft board yet and have only scouted a couple players to this point, i don’t think either of them would be a reach at 30 and having trouble finding a way where either of them are even available at 30 tbh.  That’s why I’ve shifted my line of thinking to trading out of 30 and drafting Kenneth Gainwell.  

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28 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Meh-chel is more like it.

 

Devin Singletary was better as a rookie and has been much more efficient in the NFL than Michel.    Much better in that pass game in particular.    Michel was a very regrettable use of a draft pick..............they had been finding better RB production from everywhere except using a high pick for such a long time.........so I was quite pleased when they made it.:D   

 

Lynch was a top 10 pick by a dumb drafting Buffalo team..........his career turned out to be near HOF level but it's important to note........that was made possible by going to a place that didn't have to use a top pick on him.    

 

I think the situation where it can be a wise expenditure is exceptional.    This isn't one of those situations, IMO.   It would be nice to have but it's not worth a blue personnel chip or a market contract.    

 

 

 

The refs bailed them out the week before against Foles and the Eagles.    Eagles were the better team at that point......the Saints shouldn't even have been in that game versus Rams.  The Saints came up small time after time in recent years in the playoffs.

The Saints had 420 yards to the Eagles 250 in that game, and the Saints won the turnover battle too, getting 2 and only giving up 1. Not sure what you're referring too -- they utterly dominated the Eagles statistically. They had the ball for a ridiculous 37:50 to the Eagles 22:10 also. 

 

Also, the next time Singletary rushes for 336 yards and 6 TDs on 71 carries in three postseason games -- which Michel did in 2018 -- let me know.

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49 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Yeah, I may be inclined to agree with you...but I’d still MUCH rather draft etienne, Harris or Gainwell than pay drake or fournette 5-7 mill per.  I’d take jones on a one year deal worth 8 mill.....but he just declined a multi year deal worth 14 per....a mistake on his part imo 

 

This Gainwell fellow is electric. He didn't play against the level of competition that Harris and ET faced, and he's a little light for an every down RB from a durability standpoint. But he sure looks dynamic. 

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We know Daboll has the ability to design the offensive game plan to attack a defenses weaknesses. The only reason I can see that we played right into KC’s hands on offense was Daboll knew we didn’t have the RBs or TEs to take advantage of the KC defense which is their putrid LBs. It’s disgusting how easily they exposed us and I don’t think it was because Daboll didn’t understand how to attack them, he had no faith that we could do it effectively. Knox is a huge disappointment. I really expected him to be a weapon this year but he didn’t progress the way I hoped. Singletary regressed, probably a combo of poor blocking, lack of touches and a sophomore slump. 

 

I don’t care how we do it but we need a couple players that are at least competent enough for us to attack the middle and get defenses out of the 7 man coverage schemes that stymied us a few times this year. 

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1 hour ago, Logic said:

We could have a clone hybrid of Thurman Thomas, Marshall Faulk, and LaDainian Tomlinson back there.....and it won't matter a lick of Allen doesn't start taking his checkdowns when they're the best option. 

😳

Sure, but maybe if he had confidence they’d actually catch it and do something with it he’d utilize the option more often.

 

That drop by Singletary was pretty rough and would certainly make me second guess throwing it to him with the afc championship on the line. 

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26 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

The Saints had 420 yards to the Eagles 250 in that game, and the Saints won the turnover battle too, getting 2 and only giving up 1. Not sure what you're referring too -- they utterly dominated the Eagles statistically. They had the ball for a ridiculous 37:50 to the Eagles 22:10 also. 

 

Also, the next time Singletary rushes for 336 yards and 6 TDs on 71 carries in three postseason games -- which Michel did in 2018 -- let me know.

 

 

Dominated?   That's box score scouting.   The Eagles lead that entire game until a minute left in the 3rd quarter and the refs missed a couple brutal PI's that held the Eagles back.   But the Eagles were driving to what looked like an inevitable game winning TD when a pass went right thru a wide-open Alshon Jeffries hands around the Saints 20 yard line for a game saving gimme-pic.........just saving the Saints from an earlier playoff choke job that season.   

 

As for the Patriots rushing production..........great OL....maybe their best ever......lead by the greatest OL coach ever.  

 

Sony Michel has been JAG and often unavailable in 3 NFL seasons.

 

The premise that SB champs usually need a star RB is not supported.   

 

A better running game would be nice but that doesn't have to come from spending important chips on the RB position.

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3 hours ago, Paup 1995MVP said:

Did you watch Alabama or Clemson play the past couple seasons?  Etienne or Najee Harris are certainly not nitch players.  They are studs who would make our offense much more dynamic.  Singletary brings next to nothing.  He has no explosion power or burst.  And Moss may be a little better, but not much.  We can find good interior lineman or inside LB's later in the draft or in free agency.  We drafted Edmunds in the first round, and he has done nothing to live up to first round status.  In fact, I will be so bold as to say that AJ Klein made as much if not more of an impact in games for us this season then Edmunds did.  

 

Agree. Both singletary and moss, while high character... aren't game changers, playmakers, or anything impactful to plan for for opposing DC's... IMO major whiffs by beane... #3's on most teams with solid starters... Edmunds looks like tarzan plays like jane... Even if there's a compelling enough LBer at 30... you still take Najee Harris if he's there... his tape is ridiculous. Dare I say a smaller (not by much) Derek Henry. He MUST be the pick. 

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10 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Dominated?   That's box score scouting.   The Eagles lead that entire game until a minute left in the 3rd quarter and the refs missed a couple brutal PI's that held the Eagles back.   But the Eagles were driving to what looked like an inevitable game winning TD when a pass went right thru a wide-open Alshon Jeffries hands around the Saints 20 yard line for a game saving gimme-pic.........just saving the Saints from an earlier playoff choke job that season.   

 

As for the Patriots rushing production..........great OL....maybe their best ever......lead by the greatest OL coach ever.  

 

Sony Michel has been JAG and often unavailable in 3 NFL seasons.

 

The premise that SB champs usually need a star RB is not supported.   

 

A better running game would be nice but that doesn't have to come from spending important chips on the RB position.

What do you think of Michel's postseason performance in 2018? Also, He was hurt a lot this season, but he did average 5.7 ypc on 79 carries, which -- excluding QBs like Lamar Jackson -- was second best in the league after Dobbins.  That's Gillislee level stuff! (I kid.) Anyway, he did look pretty explosive this year when he was in there.

 

I did watch that Eagles/Saints game, and to be honest, I thought the Eagles were going to blow them out early on -- that is, until the Saints started completely dominating, which was well before halftime. Bad drop by Jeffrey, for sure, but there was no guarantee of a TD. The drop occurred at around the 18 yard line, IIRC. The Saints were indeed behind until late in the third, but bear in mind that they scored on their first drive of the third quarter -- and it took up eleven and a half minutes.

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1 hour ago, NewEra said:

No....but the majority of those teams won with great-very good defenses. I don’t see our defense being in either of those categories next season.  
 

If we plan on winning a SB we need to outscore the chiefs.  Period.  The teams you listed didn’t have to beat the chiefs. It’s a much different situation. They are as close to unstoppable on O as we’ve seen. The vaunted SF D almost held them in check.....until the chiefs had to score....and they scored at will when they needed to.  
 

I have always agreed with your assessment regarding 1st rd RBs.  I think the chiefs have changed my mind.  We need to out score them.  Maybe we can get another gamebreaking type rb in rd 3 or 4.....but there a some RBs in rd 1-2 than I know can take our O to another level.  

 

That's what you THINK........Harris and Etienne were playing on dominant teams and both had over 600 carries in college.......not low mileage.

 

The Bills have to fix their running game.........it was astonishingly unproductive considering the threat of the pass.........but IMO that is an offensive line issue.

 

Mitch Morse undermines their running game, IMO.    Feliciano would be better there than at guard and much better than Morse in the run game.

 

It's a strong OT class.......they might find a LT that can play RT right away with that pick.   If they pay Williams at RT they could address a pass rusher or a CB.   Or perhaps they trade a high pick for a proven stud pass rusher or CB.   

 

Real, high-dollar, important positions that also help you unseat the Chiefs.

 

Then find a James Robinson later in the draft or maybe Moss and Singletary run for 5.0 ypc behind a better OL and scheme.

 

I think there are many ways to skin the cat and get past a KC........throwing their weight into the RB position is short-sighted but I don't doubt they'd do it because they already have used two "starting" level picks on RB's the past two seasons.

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