So the Lamar excuses start????

[JoPoy88]

3 minutes ago, Bermuda Triangle said:

 

You should probably try to troll less.

Im not trolling, that’s your logic (or lack thereof.) You listed names and draft positions man. Spoke nothing of production. I think Jackson has one elite weapon in Andrews yes. The rest of those guys are just guys. Dobbins may turn out to be great, he aint there yet. 

5 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Yea and Andrews is talented. 

100% agreed. 
 

My only point in this thread was if that excuse of “no weapons” (or not enough) is invalid for Jackson, then maybe it wasn’t that valid for Allen a couple years ago.

[NewEra]

5 minutes ago, Bermuda Triangle said:

If you were a free agent receiver in the NFL, would you want to play for the Ravens?

 

If not, why?

I deleted the players who had nothing to do with Josh Allen.

 

Jones and Benjamin were cut loose by the Bills.  Benjamin was shot before he played for the Bills.  

 

Duvernay was just drafted this year, and Boykin last year.  Apples and oranges. 

What does this have to do with Josh allen.  This had to do with Lamar jackson and his weapons being 1-3rd picks

Edited January 17, 2021 by NewEra

[FireChans]

13 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

That was the point...  EXCUSES!!!!

 

The Ravens scored 3 points & Lamar threw a 101 yard pick six.

 

Can you imagine Nick Wright (yes our new whipping bow) if that was Josh???? 

Josh had a playoff meltdown last season dude. Do you not remember? 
 

Brown failed to get his feet down. Duke had some drops. Completed <50%. Zero passing TD’s. 
 

Lamar Jackson is not a perfect QB. He has flaws. His team also has flaws. These can both be correct.

[Bermuda Triangle]

1 minute ago, JoPoy88 said:

Im not trolling, that’s your logic (or lack thereof.) You listed names and draft positions man. Spoke nothing of production. I think Jackson has one elite weapon in Andrews yes. The rest of those guys are just guys. Dobbins may turn out to be great, he aint there yet. 

If you were an NFL WR, and could pick a team to join, where would Baltimore rank on your list of choices?

[SMAKCruiser]

Just now, Bermuda Triangle said:

If you were an NFL WR, and could pick a team to join, where would Baltimore rank on your list of choices?

I'd rank them right next to the Bills with Tyrod 🙂

[Bermuda Triangle]

4 minutes ago, JoPoy88 said:

 

My only point in this thread was if that excuse of “no weapons” (or not enough) is invalid for Jackson, then maybe it wasn’t that valid for Allen a couple years ago.

Sure, and maybe Jackson will throw for 4000+ yards in 2 years....

[NewEra]

1 minute ago, Bermuda Triangle said:

If you were an NFL WR, and could pick a team to join, where would Baltimore rank on your list of choices?

Your tangents are mind boggling 

[TableDestoyer69]

John Brown has caught passes from both Lamar Jackson and Josh Allen, and has way better stats with Allen as his QB.

[DuckyBoys]

40 minutes ago, Adam said:

I think he has a lot of talent but is being hurt by an offensive coordinator who has an outdated philosophy and a weak group of WR's. Swap him and Allen and I think Jackson does very well with our roster and Daboll's ofense. Do I want to see that- absolutely not!

You really believe right now Lamar could succeed in a pass first offense without the support of the most dominant running game the nfl has seen in decades?

[Bermuda Triangle]

2 minutes ago, NewEra said:

What does this have to do with Josh allen.  This had to do with Lamar jackson and his weapons being 1-3rd picks

This was the post that I originally responded to:

 

 

to your topic - if one of the excuses about Jackson is the lack of weapons argument, well literally hundreds of posters right here were making the exact same excuse for Allen 2 years ago

 

Such a lame comparison.  Completely apples and oranges.

[JESSEFEFFER]

18 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

They would. And they get production out of those guys. Does the way they play offense and Lamar's skillset limit the receiver production? Yes to some extent. But I think the receiver talent does too. Isn't black and white. 

John Brown was playing well with Flacco and had a great 2019 with Josh.  He disappeared from the Ravens offense when Lamar came in.  Robert Foster likely played the best football of his career in 2018.  Diggs, Beasley and Brown have had the best years of their careers with Josh.  The next WR that thrives with Lamar throwing him the ball will be the first.

[Bermuda Triangle]

1 minute ago, NewEra said:

Your tangents are mind boggling 

You don't want to answer the question, do you?

 

Can you tell me more about Rasaun Woods draft slot?  Cause that's relevant.

[FireChans]

3 minutes ago, DuckyBoys said:

You really believe right now Lamar could succeed in a pass first offense without the support of the most dominant running game the nfl has seen in decades?

The run dominant is a part of LJ's game. He's probably the most unique runner in the NFL at QB.

[NewEra]

3 minutes ago, Bermuda Triangle said:

This was the post that I originally responded to:

 

 

to your topic - if one of the excuses about Jackson is the lack of weapons argument, well literally hundreds of posters right here were making the exact same excuse for Allen 2 years ago

 

Such a lame comparison.  Completely apples and oranges.

Have a good day sir. 

[JoPoy88]

1 minute ago, Bermuda Triangle said:

This was the post that I originally responded to:

 

 

to your topic - if one of the excuses about Jackson is the lack of weapons argument, well literally hundreds of posters right here were making the exact same excuse for Allen 2 years ago

 

Such a lame comparison.  Completely apples and oranges.

well it’s always going to be apples and oranges guy unless you had both QBs playing with exactly the same guys. You can think it lame if your a shameless homer sure. Personally I think the excuse for Lamar is lame now and it was lame then when people (probably people like you) were making it for Allen.

[Bermuda Triangle]

5 minutes ago, TableDestoyer69 said:

John Brown has caught passes from both Lamar Jackson and Josh Allen, and has way better stats with Allen as his QB.

Wonder what his stats were with Baltimore in '18 and with the Bills in '19.

 

If he was still in Baltimore, he'd probably be a 'non-weapon', a 'JAG'

[FireChans]

1 minute ago, JoPoy88 said:

well it’s always going to be apples and oranges guy unless you had both QBs playing with exactly the same guys. You can think it lame if your a shameless homer sure. Personally I think the excuse for Lamar is lame now and it was lame then when people (probably people like you) were making it for Allen.

Here's what I don't understand:

 

"We should get more weapons for our young QB so he has more help and plays better" = smart

 

"Our young QB would play better with more weapons" = homer excuse take

[Bermuda Triangle]

1 minute ago, JoPoy88 said:

well it’s always going to be apples and oranges guy unless you had both QBs playing with exactly the same guys. You can think it lame if your a shameless homer sure. Personally I think the excuse for Lamar is lame now and it was lame then when people (probably people like you) were making it for Allen.

John Brown in '18 v. John Brown in '19.

 

I know you won't answer, but I'll ask again: If you were an NFL WR, and could pick a team to join, where would Baltimore rank on your list of choices?

5 minutes ago, JESSEFEFFER said:

John Brown was playing well with Flacco and had a great 2019 with Josh.  He disappeared from the Ravens offense when Lamar came in.  Robert Foster likely played the best football of his career in 2018.  Diggs, Beasley and Brown have had the best years of their careers with Josh.  The next WR that thrives with Lamar throwing him the ball will be the first.

Boom. Truth. 

[FireChans]

2 minutes ago, Bermuda Triangle said:

Wonder what his stats were with Baltimore in '18 and with the Bills in '19.

 

If he was still in Baltimore, he'd probably be a 'non-weapon', a 'JAG'

Smoke had the highest YPC of his career (a gross 17 yards) in 2018 as the #2 option.

[JoPoy88]

1 minute ago, FireChans said:

Here's what I don't understand:

 

"We should get more weapons for our young QB so he has more help and plays better" = smart

 

"Our young QB would play better with more weapons" = homer excuse take

so why can’t Ravens fans make the same excuse?

[TableDestoyer69]

1 minute ago, Bermuda Triangle said:

Wonder what his stats were with Baltimore in '18 and with the Bills in '19.

 

If he was still in Baltimore, he'd probably be a 'non-weapon', a 'JAG'

His '18 stats were really influenced by Flacco.

 

"Brown caught 42 of 97 targets for 715 yards and five scores in 16 games for Baltimore in 2018.

Brown averaged a career-high 17.0 yards per catch in his first year with the Ravens, but an atrocious 43-percent catch rate (third worst in NFL) bombed his fantasy value. The narrative may have been different if Joe Flacco remained the starting quarterback all year, though, as Brown was on pace for 1,069 yards and six touchdowns before Flacco was benched ahead of Week 11. Comparatively, Brown averaged just 12.8 yards per game with Lamar Jackson under center -- which doesn't bode well for the wideout's 2019 fantasy stock."

Source: https://www.cbssports.com/fantasy/football/news/ravens-john-brown-poor-fit-with-lamar-jackson/

[Bermuda Triangle]

3 minutes ago, JoPoy88 said:

well it’s always going to be apples and oranges guy unless you had both QBs playing with exactly the same guys. You can think it lame if your a shameless homer sure. Personally I think the excuse for Lamar is lame now and it was lame then when people (probably people like you) were making it for Allen.

I know you won't answer, but I'll ask again:  If you were an NFL WR, and could pick a team to join, where would Baltimore rank on your list of choices?  let's say that your future payday depended on your performance. 

[BITE ME]

The guy has an MVP and a playoff win in his first three seasons.  Not too bad.  He has a ceiling because of his below average passing abilities, but he is still a top 12 quarterback.  He could win a Super Bowl if he had an all-time great defense but that is about the only way it could happen.

[FireChans]

Just now, JoPoy88 said:

so why can’t Ravens fans make the same excuse?

I absolutely agree. They can!

[MJS]

I'm not sure it matters. Why do you care if people defend Jackson?

[NewEra]

2 minutes ago, Bermuda Triangle said:

You don't want to answer the question, do you?

 

Can you tell me more about Rasaun Woods draft slot?  Cause that's relevant.

You are implying that brown, boykins and duvernay are weapons because they were 1-3rd rd picks.  Right?  I’m showing that just because a player was drafted high, doesn’t mean that they are viable weapons and can absolutely suck.  Duvernay and boykins don’t even get snaps over willie Snead.....yet you call them weapons? 
 

this has nothing to do with Josh allen.  This has to do with Lamar Jacksons weapons.....or lack thereof.  They are lacking.  Partly due to a heavy run based system.  Partly due to Lamar Jacksons passing ability.  Partly due to the fact that they suck and can’t beat out willie Snead.  
 

if you were a QB, what WR units would you choose ahead of the ravens?  I’d choose every single one.  

[Bermuda Triangle]

Just now, TableDestoyer69 said:

His '18 stats were really influenced by Flacco.

 

"Brown caught 42 of 97 targets for 715 yards and five scores in 16 games for Baltimore in 2018.

Brown averaged a career-high 17.0 yards per catch in his first year with the Ravens, but an atrocious 43-percent catch rate (third worst in NFL) bombed his fantasy value. The narrative may have been different if Joe Flacco remained the starting quarterback all year, though, as Brown was on pace for 1,069 yards and six touchdowns before Flacco was benched ahead of Week 11. Comparatively, Brown averaged just 12.8 yards per game with Lamar Jackson under center -- which doesn't bode well for the wideout's 2019 fantasy stock."

Source: https://www.cbssports.com/fantasy/football/news/ravens-john-brown-poor-fit-with-lamar-jackson/

So, he had HORRIBLE numbers with Jackson at QB, the statistics say?

 

Go figure...

[JoPoy88]

Just now, FireChans said:

I absolutely agree. They can!

that was my only point. The OP is claiming “here come the excuses” as if their invalid. We Bills fans said the same thing. They could use a true no. 1 wideout. You could argue they could use a pass catching RB too, especially after the drops by Dobbins last night. I don’t think it’s all that crazy.

2 minutes ago, MJS said:

I'm not sure it matters. Why do you care if people defend Jackson?

gotta ask the OP that one. I tried.

[FireChans]

Just now, JoPoy88 said:

that was my only point. The OP is claiming “here come the excuses” as if their invalid. We Bills fans said the same thing. They could use a true no. 1 wideout. You could argue they could use a pass catching RB too, especially after the drops by Dobbins last night. I don’t think it’s all that crazy.

I guess I didn't make it clear I was agreeing with you lol

[JoPoy88]

Just now, FireChans said:

I guess I didn't make it clear I was agreeing with you lol

no problem all good 👍

[GunnerBill]

Just now, Bermuda Triangle said:

If you were an NFL WR, and could pick a team to join, where would Baltimore rank on your list of choices?

 

Not very high. Nobody is disputing that. Which is why they are left with draft picks and washed up vets.

13 minutes ago, JESSEFEFFER said:

John Brown was playing well with Flacco and had a great 2019 with Josh.  He disappeared from the Ravens offense when Lamar came in.  Robert Foster likely played the best football of his career in 2018.  Diggs, Beasley and Brown have had the best years of their careers with Josh.  The next WR that thrives with Lamar throwing him the ball will be the first.

 

What has Josh got to do with this? Josh is in a different tier altogether than Jackson.

[Doc]

So we’re comparing Josh as a raw and not so great passer in his rookie season to Jackson in his third season?  And is the belief that Josh’s improvement is solely due to Diggs?

[GunnerBill]

Just now, Doc said:

So we’re comparing Josh as a raw and not so great passer in his rookie season to Jackson in his third season?  And is the belief that Josh’s improvement is solely due to Diggs?

 

There is no comparison to Josh IMO. 

[FireChans]

1 minute ago, Doc said:

So we’re comparing Josh as a raw and not so great passer in his rookie season to Jackson in his third season?  And is the belief that Josh’s improvement is solely due to Diggs?

No.

[JoPoy88]

8 minutes ago, Bermuda Triangle said:

I know you won't answer, but I'll ask again:  If you were an NFL WR, and could pick a team to join, where would Baltimore rank on your list of choices?  let's say that your future payday depended on your performance. 

i’ll answer that I would pick the Bills and Allen right now. But you’re moving the goalposts so wildly right now I don’t know what point you’re trying to make. 

[Bermuda Triangle]

4 minutes ago, NewEra said:

You are implying that brown, boykins and duvernay are weapons because they were 1-3rd rd picks.  Right?  I’m showing that just because a player was drafted high, doesn’t mean that they are viable weapons and can absolutely suck.  Duvernay and boykins don’t even get snaps over willie Snead.....yet you call them weapons? 
 

this has nothing to do with Josh allen.  This has to do with Lamar Jacksons weapons.....or lack thereof.  They are lacking.  Partly due to a heavy run based system.  Partly due to Lamar Jacksons passing ability.  Partly due to the fact that they suck and can’t beat out willie Snead.  
 

if you were a QB, what WR units would you choose ahead of the ravens?  I’d choose every single one.  

Do you think that any team in the league wouldn't take Brown, Boykin or Duvernay if the Ravens cut them loose?  The "lack of weapons" excuse is unique as far as the Ravens are concerned - how do we know if these guys suck, or if they're being underutilized because of the Ravens' offensive system or Jackson's skillset?

 

How do you explain John Brown's stats with Flacco at QB in '18 vs. with Jackson at QB?  Or John Brown's in '19 with the Bills or in '18 with the Ravens?  How do you explain Snead's reception count being halved after the '18 season?

 

OTOH, the following WR corps suck more than BAL: Jax, Washington, NYJ, NYG, NE

[JoPoy88]

3 minutes ago, Doc said:

So we’re comparing Josh as a raw and not so great passer in his rookie season to Jackson in his third season?  And is the belief that Josh’s improvement is solely due to Diggs?

I am not comparing the QBs at all. I was comparing the excuses. 

[HOUSE]

4 minutes ago, Doc said:

So we’re comparing Josh as a raw and not so great passer in his rookie season to Jackson in his third season?  And is the belief that Josh’s improvement is solely due to Diggs?

 

Josh is now a much better dancer.

[Bermuda Triangle]

7 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

 

What has Josh got to do with this? Josh is in a different tier altogether than Jackson.

ask JoPoy.  He brought Allen into the discussion. 

[thenorthremembers]

My favorite Collinsworth line from last night was "its throws like that which so you Lamar is a great pocket passer."

 

Lamar is a good football player buts lets stop pretending he is a great passer.  He does it differently and thats great because he wins doing it.  I dont know why its so necessary for Lamar fans to try and prove he does it the same way.