Ravens-Steelers now postponed to Wednesday 3:40 pm

[NoSaint]

Just now, The Wiz said:

Not to be crass but you didn't answer either of my questions.

 

Are Titan players being suspended because of the protocol violations?

Why are teams following the protocol punished while the teams that are not getting games postponed and allowing all of the players to come back?

 

What is the easy, obvious and publicly known answer?  

If the team is a medical risk to be in contact with each other or the opponent the game is postponed (and played with substantially diminished rosters) or could be cancelled

 

if the team is not a risk, they play as scheduled 

 

if after an investigation protocol is violated, fines, loss of picks or suspensions are possible. Suspensions are not always easy given the union and CBA. Heavy institutional fines have been levied and starting to see picks lost. 
 

it’s not that complicated once you let go of expecting perfect for every possible situation. Nothing is going to be perfect in this season. It’s pretty darn consistent and not unfair. 

[The Wiz]

38 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

If the team is a medical risk to be in contact with each other or the opponent the game is postponed (and played with substantially diminished rosters) or could be cancelled

 

if the team is not a risk, they play as scheduled 

 

if after an investigation protocol is violated, fines, loss of picks or suspensions are possible. Suspensions are not always easy given the union and CBA. Heavy institutional fines have been levied and starting to see picks lost. 
 

it’s not that complicated once you let go of expecting perfect for every possible situation. Nothing is going to be perfect in this season. It’s pretty darn consistent and not unfair. 

I get it.  I honestly do. It is consistent but I don't think it's fair when the protocol is violated to postpone a game vs a team that followed it and is shorthanded because they did the right thing. 

[NYGPopgun10]

On 11/27/2020 at 6:40 PM, Putin said:

The patriots had to play the Chiefs without Newton I don’t see why the ravens can do the same , I believe ( this year ) we have a 16 player PS for a reason 

 

And of course they pushed it back to Wednesday. 

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

2 hours ago, NYGPopgun10 said:

 

And of course they pushed it back to Wednesday. 

Helps us a bit...steelers are gonna have their game next week pushed back id imagine so they have less extra time to prepare for us

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

At some point I expect the NFL to trot out a video of a computer generated Obi Wan Kenobi saying "this game was already played on Thanksgiving Day.  Baltimore won."

[machine gun kelly]

Thank you Ridge Yoda.  I know the factors regarding the decision to keep postponing as the Ravens kept getting newer cases, but it still sucks the 49ers followed all their strict protocols, and were punished for it basically throwing a game by putting a practice squad WR as a QB.  I know the league’s position is they won’t postpone for competitive, but sure could be construed as just that.

 

At least we’ve not to deal with that yet.  TE’s didn’t matter.  We barely use ours anyway which is why we survived that one.

[Chandler#81]

11 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

 

Ridiculous, bordering absurd. Then again, everyone’s trying to cope..🤷‍♂️

[Rochesterfan]

7 hours ago, The Wiz said:

Not to be crass but you didn't answer either of my questions.

 

Are Titan players being suspended because of the protocol violations?

Why are teams following the protocol punished while the teams that are not getting games postponed and allowing all of the players to come back?

 

What is the easy, obvious and publicly known answer?  

 

The NFL and NFLPA has already said the league does not have the authority to suspend or fine the players for COVID related breaches.  Only the individual teams can fine or suspend.  The NFLPA agreed to that because they knew the teams would not want to tick off their own players and therefore fines and suspension will be limited or non-existent.

 

The NFL has the ability to fine (or even suspend) coaches, front office staff, owners, and the team.  They also have the ability to take away draft picks.  So far they have used both options to punish various teams like the Titans, Denver, NE, and the Raiders.  Denver is being investigated for the QB situation and the Ravens will get hammered, but only the team can come down on the players.

 

 

What I really do not get is people constantly complain about the NFL being inconsistent and the one time they published how they are going to treat these and have been about as consistent as possible and people complain and want them to be inconsistent.

 

They have repeatedly stated they will postpone and move games for medical reasons only (to stop the internal spread of the virus).  They will not move games for competitive reasons (ie your QBs all get infected).  The individual teams and the NFL protocol is designed to limit these contacts and try to minimize the competitive disadvantage.  Teams were recommended to think about things like isolating a QB that has very limited contact, splitting up squads/PS practice time and work out time to eliminate entire groups being quarantined at once.

 

At this point most teams have gone through what Denver went through, Buffalo lost their TEs, they also lost several DBs with Norman, NE lost several defensive players with Gilmore and lost Cam for a game, etc.  The difference is Denver’s QBs purposely did not follow protocol by having an unauthorized inside meeting/lunch with no masks.  That was 100% on the Denver QBs and against protocol.  The NFL deemed them close contacts and wham they are out.  I do not blame the NFL - I blame Denver and since the NFL is being consistent I have no issues with what happened.

 

I agree it does suck that teams that have a massive outbreak have the ability to get some players back, but that was part of the agreement with the players Union.  Players miss games based upon testing and the protocol - not for breaches.

Edited December 1, 2020 by Rochesterfan

[Rochesterfan]

6 hours ago, The Wiz said:

I get it.  I honestly do. It is consistent but I don't think it's fair when the protocol is violated to postpone a game vs a team that followed it and is shorthanded because they did the right thing. 

 

The thing is Denver did not do the right thing - if they had done the right thing only Driscoll would have missed the game.  The NFL has given them enhanced rules about no meeting inside, all food prepared must be taken out, masking during practice and workouts, limits on player gatherings, etc.

 

The Broncos broke multiple protocols by the QBs having a meeting inside, eating together, and not wearing masks.  The initial review of the contact data showed Driscoll had no close contacts and therefore the other QBs would have been fine.  The NFL reviewed film from the facility because coaches and players have removed their devices in past reviews and that caused problems.  On film review they found the QB meeting without masks and inside the building, the health and safety officer deemed this meeting to be high risk as it was inside and maskless and more than 20 minutes and therefore put them on COVID.

 

It is not hard - follow the rules they would have been fine - break the rules explain why they should get preferential treatment that no other team gets?

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

1 hour ago, Chandler#81 said:

Ridiculous, bordering absurd. Then again, everyone’s trying to cope..🤷‍♂️

Dad:  "We're watching Ravens – Steelers!"

Kids:  "But it's 'ABC's After School Special' day!"

Edited December 1, 2020 by Ridgewaycynic2013

[Greg S]

3 games in 11 days for the Steelers when they meet the Bills. One of those games is against their most bitter rival where its usually a 60 minute fist fight. The Bills could be facing a worn down Steelers team on SNF.

[DaBillsFanSince1973]

3 minutes ago, Greg S said:

3 games in 11 days for the Steelers when they meet the Bills. One of those games is against their most bitter rival where its usually a 60 minute fist fight. The Bills could be facing a worn down Steelers team on SNF.

 

doesn't seem fair really. regardless, I would rather have a shot at beating them under more normal circumstances, but that's just me.

[Greg S]

4 minutes ago, A Firm Tree Does Not Fear said:

 

doesn't seem fair really. regardless, I would rather have a shot at beating them under more normal circumstances, but that's just me.

 

So would I. I want the games played as fair as possible but this situation is working in the Bills favor. It's nobody's fault. But 3 games in 11 days is a lot of football especially at the NFL level.

[4merper4mer]

3 hours ago, Rochesterfan said:

 

The NFL and NFLPA has already said the league does not have the authority to suspend or fine the players for COVID related breaches.  Only the individual teams can fine or suspend.  The NFLPA agreed to that because they knew the teams would not want to tick off their own players and therefore fines and suspension will be limited or non-existent.

 

The NFL has the ability to fine (or even suspend) coaches, front office staff, owners, and the team.  They also have the ability to take away draft picks.  So far they have used both options to punish various teams like the Titans, Denver, NE, and the Raiders.  Denver is being investigated for the QB situation and the Ravens will get hammered, but only the team can come down on the players.

 

 

What I really do not get is people constantly complain about the NFL being inconsistent and the one time they published how they are going to treat these and have been about as consistent as possible and people complain and want them to be inconsistent.

 

They have repeatedly stated they will postpone and move games for medical reasons only (to stop the internal spread of the virus).  They will not move games for competitive reasons (ie your QBs all get infected).  The individual teams and the NFL protocol is designed to limit these contacts and try to minimize the competitive disadvantage.  Teams were recommended to think about things like isolating a QB that has very limited contact, splitting up squads/PS practice time and work out time to eliminate entire groups being quarantined at once.

 

At this point most teams have gone through what Denver went through, Buffalo lost their TEs, they also lost several DBs with Norman, NE lost several defensive players with Gilmore and lost Cam for a game, etc.  The difference is Denver’s QBs purposely did not follow protocol by having an unauthorized inside meeting/lunch with no masks.  That was 100% on the Denver QBs and against protocol.  The NFL deemed them close contacts and wham they are out.  I do not blame the NFL - I blame Denver and since the NFL is being consistent I have no issues with what happened.

 

I agree it does suck that teams that have a massive outbreak have the ability to get some players back, but that was part of the agreement with the players Union.  Players miss games based upon testing and the protocol - not for breaches.

Tolstoying the explanation doesn't make The NFLs approach a good policy.  It actually shows how difficult is is to understand.  Any sound policy can be explain succinctly.  You can claim consistency all you want as the NFL continues to change the day of the same game multiple times.  If a jurisdiction has a policy of the electric chair for someone who steals gum from the 7-11 and ten minutes probation at the time of the culprit's choosing for burning down their neighbor's house, that is consistent, but bad.

 

But IMO you'd really have to be drinking a lot of Gaslight Grape flavored Koolaid to say the policy is consistent whe the punishments for what the Ravens and Titans have done are described in vague terms like "harsh" and "hammered" rather than being understandable pre-described specific penalties such as "loss of a pick in round x for violation type a", "fine of $x for violation type b", but there isn't any of that.  IYHO is that really consistent?

[Rochesterfan]

30 minutes ago, 4merper4mer said:

Tolstoying the explanation doesn't make The NFLs approach a good policy.  It actually shows how difficult is is to understand.  Any sound policy can be explain succinctly.  You can claim consistency all you want as the NFL continues to change the day of the same game multiple times.  If a jurisdiction has a policy of the electric chair for someone who steals gum from the 7-11 and ten minutes probation at the time of the culprit's choosing for burning down their neighbor's house, that is consistent, but bad.

 

But IMO you'd really have to be drinking a lot of Gaslight Grape flavored Koolaid to say the policy is consistent whe the punishments for what the Ravens and Titans have done are described in vague terms like "harsh" and "hammered" rather than being understandable pre-described specific penalties such as "loss of a pick in round x for violation type a", "fine of $x for violation type b", but there isn't any of that.  IYHO is that really consistent?

 

Once again - you show you have no knowledge, but way to give a crap analogy.

 

Bravo. 👏

[4merper4mer]

25 minutes ago, Rochesterfan said:

 

Once again - you show you have no knowledge, but way to give a crap analogy.

 

Bravo. 👏

Classy.

 

You are, of course, wrong about the NFL having a consistent and understandable overall policy.  If you understood it you would have simply stated the punishments the Ravens will face.  You'd have done so with specificity.  Instead you sling insults.  You don't know what the Ravens punishments will be because the NFL is making it up as they go along.

 

Some of your comparisons between the Broncos/Ravens scheduling are well explained. They are consistent.  That doesn't make them reasonable or fair because they aren't.  But they're consistent.  They are also designed in a way where the NFL can use partial data to paint whatever picture they want.

[Rochesterfan]

1 hour ago, 4merper4mer said:

Classy.

 

You are, of course, wrong about the NFL having a consistent and understandable overall policy.  If you understood it you would have simply stated the punishments the Ravens will face.  You'd have done so with specificity.  Instead you sling insults.  You don't know what the Ravens punishments will be because the NFL is making it up as they go along.

 

Some of your comparisons between the Broncos/Ravens scheduling are well explained. They are consistent.  That doesn't make them reasonable or fair because they aren't.  But they're consistent.  They are also designed in a way where the NFL can use partial data to paint whatever picture they want.

The discussion we are having is about the schedule and why the Broncos did not get their game moved.

 

They do not state what the punishment will be because that has to be determined by the NFL and the NFLPA after the fact.  The NFL has stated it is a moving target on punishment.

 

The Titans had a major outbreak and were fined $350,000 as an organization - along with coaching and GM fines.  The NFL then updated the protocol and gave fines to the Broncos and the Pats.  They also reviewed several issues with the Raiders and gave multiple fines to the team for multiple issues along with a draft pick loss.

 

We will see how the Broncos are punished as a 2x offender and how the Ravens are punished, but those are not consistent.  The NFL never said the punishment would be consistent - it depends upon what a systemic review by the NFL and NFLPA finds.  There is no - oh you had 1 case and he was masked so $50 fine if that is what you are looking for.  

 

 

[MasterStrategist]

5 minutes ago, Rochesterfan said:

The discussion we are having is about the schedule and why the Broncos did not get their game moved.

 

They do not state what the punishment will be because that has to be determined by the NFL and the NFLPA after the fact.  The NFL has stated it is a moving target on punishment.

 

The Titans had a major outbreak and were fined $350,000 as an organization - along with coaching and GM fines.  The NFL then updated the protocol and gave fines to the Broncos and the Pats.  They also reviewed several issues with the Raiders and gave multiple fines to the team for multiple issues along with a draft pick loss.

 

We will see how the Broncos are punished as a 2x offender and how the Ravens are punished, but those are not consistent.  The NFL never said the punishment would be consistent - it depends upon what a systemic review by the NFL and NFLPA finds.  There is no - oh you had 1 case and he was masked so $50 fine if that is what you are looking for.  

 

 

Agree completely.

 

Not sure why it is hard for people to follow:

1. Isolated Covid cases on a team- impacted player(s), and close contacts, forced to go on COVid list and game stays as scheduled

2. Covid outbreak on team, where continued positive test results are appearing daily, then NFL is doing the best thing possible, by trying to contain the "spread" and delay the game.  They've done this consistently

 

Now, if someone wants to point a finger at the Bmore S&C coach / team not following exact NFL protocol, that is fair and the NFL is making judgements (ie: penalizing draft picks, fines, etc), which can also be criticized.

 

But in terms of delaying/postponing games, Denver situation was different than Bmore. 

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

21 minutes ago, MasterStrategist said:

But in terms of delaying/postponing games, Denver situation was different than Bmore. 

[4merper4mer]

27 minutes ago, Rochesterfan said:

 

 

They do not state what the punishment will be because that has to be determined by the NFL and the NFLPA after the fact.  The NFL has stated it is a moving target on punishment.

 

The Titans had a major outbreak and were fined $350,000 as an organization - along with coaching and GM fines.  The NFL then updated the protocol and gave fines to the Broncos and the Pats.  They also reviewed several issues with the Raiders and gave multiple fines to the team for multiple issues along with a draft pick loss.

 

We will see how the Broncos are punished as a 2x offender and how the Ravens are punished, but those are not consistent.  The NFL never said the punishment would be consistent - it depends upon what a systemic review by the NFL and NFLPA finds.  There is no - oh you had 1 case and he was masked so $50 fine if that is what you are looking for.  

 

 

One word sums up all of the above:

 

Arbitrary

 

You can add subjective if you'd like.  Neither is good.

 

The scheduling stuff may be consistent but it is entirely unfair.  I just read that Dobbins and Ingram who would have been otherwise unable to play are now able due solely to the deference given to the cheating team by the NFL.  Denver had to play without a QB.  Advantage: cheating