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The Frankish Reich

2020 PFF Bills Grades (or Why We All of a Sudden Seem to Agree with PFF)

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OK, I know we have our fair share of PFF haters here. My take: it's useful information. Take it into account with the eye test. I don't have time to watch All-22s (and in all honesty, probably not the expertise to grade them), so I find PFF to be helpful.

tl;dr: no shocks here:

- our interior O Line and D Line are trash.

- we have several of the lowest ranking guys at their positions still playing tons of snaps: Edmunds, Klein (especially Klein), all the guards, Oliver/Butler

- Murphy isn't as bad as we think (particularly in comparison to the alternatives), and Hughes is better than we think

- Tre and Hyde need to step it up/get healthy

- Our OTs and skill players are the best we've had in recent memory, and I blame the interior O Line (combined with lack of RB outside speed) for much of our running game problems

- Bottom Line: a talented team with some major, major holes (LB, interior DL, at least one guard assuming Feliciano is ok) that are unlikely to be filled in the course of the 2020 season

 

The long-form version:

 

Offensive Line:

Awful (in the 50s, Replacement Level): All guards -- Winters, Ford, Boettger. In fact, Boettger kind of breaks the scale by ranking in the low 40s.

Good (in the 70s, the solid starter grade): The tackles-- Dawkins, Williams

Mediocre (in the 60s, backup range): Morse. This one I disagree with. Playing in the middle of those putrid guards means he has a lot on his hands. I think he's been very good.

 

Skill Players:

Mediocre: Kroft, Knox, Singeltary, Moss (small sample), Brown

Good: McKenzie, Diggs (I'd go one grade higher), Gabriel Davis

Excellent (in the 80s, Pro Bowl quality): Beasley (and I agree), Allen (same)

Awful: Andre Roberts (but that's as a receiver; I'd give him a high grade as a returner this year)

 

D Line:

Excellent: Hughes (thanks to our All 22 watchers here, I realize he's getting doubled and held a lot, so up until last week that meant we didn't hear much from him)

Good: Trent Murphy (yep, that's right ... and I'm thinking after the last couple games that he may be worth another look? At least ahead of Epenesa?)

Mediocre: Addison (something makes me mix up his name with Mario Williams era signing Mark Anderson -- performance, maybe?), Phillips (he rated excellent in his short 2019), Jefferson

Awful: Epenesa, Darryl Johnson (now you understand my "Murphy is worth another look" comment), Oliver (ouch!), Butler (ouch again!). 

 

LB:

Awful: Edmunds (actually has a 39.6 score. Literally the lowest I've ever seen for a guy who plays full-time), Klein (wait a minute! A 37.0 grade!! Even worse!!!), Dodson

Medicore: Milano (I agree, but much of that is injury driven in 2020)

 

Secondary:

Mediocre: White (yep, maybe not healthy all year?), Norman (14 of 17 targets are completions, so I guess he's helped by the non-Henry run defense), Neal

Awful: Taron Johnson (agrees with my eyes), Hyde (59.0, on the verge of Mediocre, but quite a drop-off if we believe PFF here), Marlowe (36.7 ... we have a new winner!!)

Good: Poyer

 

 

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^^^ The unprofessional moron in the the red t-shirt tells you all you need to know about the depth of PFF "analysis" (if the fact that dismal human being Chris Collinsworth runs the outfit isn't enough for you).

 

They have access to lots of great stats - then they ignore those and form their opinions based on essentially personal BS "Josh Allen sux becuz" ("becuz we sed he wood outta college and we won't change our mind")

 

Great stats - consistently trash analysis.

Edited by BobChalmers
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6 minutes ago, BobChalmers said:

 

^^^ The unprofessional moron in the the red t-shirt tells you all you need to know about the depth of PFF "analysis" (if the fact that dismal human being Chris Collinsworth runs the outfit isn't enough for you).

 

They have access to lots of great stats - then they ignore those and form their opinions based on essentially personal BS "Josh Allen sux becuz" ("becuz we sed he wood outta college and we won't change our mind")

 

Great stats - consistently trash analysis.

When they try to give us their hot or controversial takes, they do indeed suck.

But it is to their credit that they changed their minds on Allen after his great start this year. Their rating accurately reflects his improvement -- they have him as a Pro Bowl quality QB so far this season.

Edited by The Frankish Reich

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34 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said:

OK, I know we have our fair share of PFF haters here. My take: it's useful information. Take it into account with the eye test. I don't have time to watch All-22s (and in all honesty, probably not the expertise to grade them), so I find PFF to be helpful.

tl;dr: no shocks here:

- our interior O Line and D Line are trash.

- we have several of the lowest ranking guys at their positions still playing tons of snaps: Edmunds, Klein (especially Klein), all the guards, Oliver/Butler

- Murphy isn't as bad as we think (particularly in comparison to the alternatives), and Hughes is better than we think

- Tre and Hyde need to step it up/get healthy

- Our OTs and skill players are the best we've had in recent memory, and I blame the interior O Line (combined with lack of RB outside speed) for much of our running game problems

- Bottom Line: a talented team with some major, major holes (LB, interior DL, at least one guard assuming Feliciano is ok) that are unlikely to be filled in the course of the 2020 season

 

The long-form version:

 

Offensive Line:

Awful (in the 50s, Replacement Level): All guards -- Winters, Ford, Boettger. In fact, Boettger kind of breaks the scale by ranking in the low 40s.

Good (in the 70s, the solid starter grade): The tackles-- Dawkins, Williams

Mediocre (in the 60s, backup range): Morse. This one I disagree with. Playing in the middle of those putrid guards means he has a lot on his hands. I think he's been very good.

 

Skill Players:

Mediocre: Kroft, Knox, Singeltary, Moss (small sample), Brown

Good: McKenzie, Diggs (I'd go one grade higher), Gabriel Davis

Excellent (in the 80s, Pro Bowl quality): Beasley (and I agree), Allen (same)

Awful: Andre Roberts (but that's as a receiver; I'd give him a high grade as a returner this year)

 

D Line:

Excellent: Hughes (thanks to our All 22 watchers here, I realize he's getting doubled and held a lot, so up until last week that meant we didn't hear much from him)

Good: Trent Murphy (yep, that's right ... and I'm thinking after the last couple games that he may be worth another look? At least ahead of Epenesa?)

Mediocre: Addison (something makes me mix up his name with Mario Williams era signing Mark Anderson -- performance, maybe?), Phillips (he rated excellent in his short 2019), Jefferson

Awful: Epenesa, Darryl Johnson (now you understand my "Murphy is worth another look" comment), Oliver (ouch!), Butler (ouch again!). 

 

LB:

Awful: Edmunds (actually has a 39.6 score. Literally the lowest I've ever seen for a guy who plays full-time), Klein (wait a minute! A 37.0 grade!! Even worse!!!), Dodson

Medicore: Milano (I agree, but much of that is injury driven in 2020)

 

Secondary:

Mediocre: White (yep, maybe not healthy all year?), Norman (14 of 17 targets are completions, so I guess he's helped by the non-Henry run defense), Neal

Awful: Taron Johnson (agrees with my eyes), Hyde (59.0, on the verge of Mediocre, but quite a drop-off if we believe PFF here), Marlowe (36.7 ... we have a new winner!!)

Good: Poyer

 

 


It’s ok that Edmunds is so bad...he’s only 23

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1 minute ago, JohnNord said:


It’s ok that Edmunds is so bad...he’s only 23

He wasn't that bad last year and he is only 23. 

The problem with drafting young projects in the NFL is kind of the same problem as calling up a young/raw baseball prospect: by the time they "get it" and become real contributors, they are expensive to keep ... 

 

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10 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said:

He wasn't that bad last year and he is only 23. 

The problem with drafting young projects in the NFL is kind of the same problem as calling up a young/raw baseball prospect: by the time they "get it" and become real contributors, they are expensive to keep ... 

 

 

I think we agree here. An Edmunds extension will probably be something closer to what he and his agent thinks they can improve to because of measurables, not based on what he has already done. It will be interesting to get an idea of where everybody values his play as that time inches closer. 

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Pff is as worthless as a sack full of aze holes, one look at those guys and you just know their parents still pay for their cell service... and toilet paper..,

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Don’t read them.  From what I gather the guys they hire have no more experience grading players than I do.

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PFF is still not something to take seriously even now that Allen's numbers are better.

 

It's so annoying how on SNF they have the PFF grades of each player. Such transparent self promotion of that BS on national TV...

Edited by Gene1973
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The good news about the Bills and the PFF rankings: we are 5-2 despite starting at least 5 or 6 guys (out of 22) who are performing at a replacement level or worse.

It's a helluva lot easier to upgrade from "awful" to "mediocre" than it is to upgrade from "good" to "outstanding." Feliciano should help in that respect; so too would a couple trades/waiver wire signings. Zimmer may have been the first of those.

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4 hours ago, JohnNord said:


It’s ok that Edmunds is so bad...he’s only 23

This excuse is getting really old.

 

The Bills are good right now, trying to get to the Playoffs right now.

 

So the plan is to just wait around for him to suddenly get good? 
 

The Bills knew he was 20 when they drafted him. 

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Here’s why I think PFF is worthless: there’s no way that they have the capacity to analyze every single player on every single snap. 

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4 hours ago, JohnNord said:


It’s ok that Edmunds is so bad...he’s only 23

 Is that his pff score or age?

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I'm sorry

You can't crap on PFF for being anti Allen and then reference them when they give him positive grades and remarks.  

 

It's 🖕 to PFF. I have receipts predicting this exact scenario,  where Josh is undeniable.  

 

I didn't anticipate the Mafia forgiving them and giving them positive feedback.  

I'll ALWAYS say, PFF is wonderful to get advanced stats from. 

But when they start giving out grades based on some b.s formula? Oh He// NO!

I'll never support their grades. I can Smell the Bull ish from Jersey!!!

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4 hours ago, Mango said:

 

I think we agree here. An Edmunds extension will probably be something closer to what he and his agent thinks they can improve to because of measurables, not based on what he has already done. It will be interesting to get an idea of where everybody values his play as that time inches closer. 

Since he was a 1st round, they can always take the 5th year option and evaluate after that.....we will still have 2 years to figure that out.   His play simply means, that we will not be in an hurry to extend him as we thought earlier.    The focus now will be on  Milano and Allen at the end of the season. 

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I'm kind of surprised no one has picked up on how PFF has AJ Klein rated as the worst starting linebacker in the NFL. And the sad fact is there's really no one else for Leslie Frazier to give those snaps to.

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7 hours ago, The Frankish Reich said:

I'm kind of surprised no one has picked up on how PFF has AJ Klein rated as the worst starting linebacker in the NFL. And the sad fact is there's really no one else for Leslie Frazier to give those snaps to.

 

It's because Klein really isn't a starter. The Bills Run Nickel so much the only linebackers to see snaps on a consistent basis are Edmunds and Milano. Klein was brought in to help out in the 4-3 base and goaline which has sucked he can't make an impact on such a small set of snaps

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33 minutes ago, Whitey13 said:

 

It's because Klein really isn't a starter. The Bills Run Nickel so much the only linebackers to see snaps on a consistent basis are Edmunds and Milano. Klein was brought in to help out in the 4-3 base and goaline which has sucked he can't make an impact on such a small set of snaps

It’s unbelievable that Klein has $11m guaranteed and a 3 year 18m deal. He wasn’t even mediocre before this year 

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