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E.J. Manuel article

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17 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I don't think Whaley meant timid, but of course it was years ago and I don't know exactly what he meant.

 

I think Whaley meant EJ just didn't have the competitive fire, the juice, to demand the best from his teammates.  Like if you look at the piece about Stefon Diggs where  they interview one of the OLmen who played with him, and he said you come back to the huddle after a play and THOSE EYES are looking at you, and you're like "OK, OK, I get it, stop looking at me!"  Or playing with Josh - when you got a QB who will literally jump over a linebacker or stiff arm one to the ground in pursuit of a first down, it must be pretty hard to scamper OOB before the sticks to avoid a hit.  Too laid back on the field, maybe.

 

That's not necessarily incompatible with "ego" or "entitled" - if you think you've arrived, maybe you don't feel the need to strive with every fiber you've got to be the best and strive to lift your teammates.

 

 

Years ago @BADOLBILZ pointed out that EJ had arms as long as a 7 foot tall man, and that this slowed him down in terms of getting rid of the ball quickly. I then watched for this and lo and behold, it DID seem to take EJ forever to snap off a quick pass. Do notice that I don't claim to have spotted this on my own lol.

 

What I DID notice was that he ran fast in college but on the Bills he looked like he was running in quicksand. I never quite understood why.

 

There will always be players who have the talent to play in the NFL but have factors which stop them from doing so. For instance RJ (imo) had 10x the talent of EJ but even he could not put it to use in the big league. 

Edited by Bill from NYC
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Coming out of college both Allen and EJ were touted as physically dominant dual threat QBs with rocket arms. When he entered the league EJ was almost exactly the same size as Josh. That's where the comparison ends. But I also think that Allen got a lot more of the good stuff when the Man Upstairs was handing it out. He's a much more dominant athlete and presence than EJ (and than 99.99% of humankind) and I often think that  his otherworldly athleticism has largely contributed (and continues to contribute)  to buying him the time needed for him to work on the many refinements of playing the position, in transitioning from athlete to athlete and QB.

No doubt EJ was drafted into a bad situation by a desperate management. But his flaws were well known and well documented. A comprehensive article in the weeks before the draft in Tomahawk Nation by someone (whose name escapes me) close to and a friend of the FSU program listed in painful detail why EJ would likely be overdrafted and ultimately fail. The writer's detailed projections could not have been more accurate and predictive. I wish Whaley had read it but he was stuck between a rock and a hard place. At least he didn't draft Gino.

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1 minute ago, starrymessenger said:

Coming out of college both Allen and EJ were touted as physically dominant dual threat QBs with rocket arms. When he entered the league EJ was almost exactly the same size as Josh. That's where the comparison ends. But I also think that Allen got a lot more of the good stuff when the Man Upstairs was handing it out. He's a much more dominant athlete and presence than EJ (and than 99.99% of humankind) and I often think that  his otherworldly athleticism has largely contributed (and continues to contribute)  to buying him the time needed for him to work on the many refinements of playing the position, in transitioning from athlete to athlete and QB.

No doubt EJ was drafted into a bad situation by a desperate management. But his flaws were well known and well documented. A comprehensive article in the weeks before the draft in Tomahawk Nation by someone (whose name escapes me) close to and a friend of the FSU program listed in painful detail why EJ would likely be overdrafted and ultimately fail. The writer's detailed projections could not have been more accurate and predictive. I wish Whaley had read it but he was stuck between a rock and a hard place. At least he didn't draft Gino.

 

So in other words,  the article essentially said EJ was trash?  

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Just now, prissythecat said:

 

So in other words,  the article essentially said EJ was trash?  

 

I wouldn't say trash. It was written by a legit, qualified and technically astute observer and was a detailed professional evaluation, not a propaganda piece by any means. The article seems no longer available in their archives. I sort of wonder whether EJs current employment has anything to do with that, though I doubt it. 

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After looking into the EJ Manuel saga, it boils down to the fact that he never should have been a 1st round draft pick.  He was a 3rd or 4th round talent that has potential to develop into a capable backup QB.  Just because you draft a QB in round 1 doesn’t mean they are a 1st round talent.  


Drafting a player with EJ’s limited potential in the first round placed a lot of unfair expectations on him.  The organization also didn’t have a very good plan to develop him. 
 

All in all, it’s an example of how clueless the Bills were being run under the likes of Russ Brandon, Buddy Nix and Doug Whaley

 

13 hours ago, soflabillsfan1 said:

He definitely wasn't trash.  I'll agree with you on that.

I guess it depends on what you mean by the word “trash.”  As a starter he was largely below average

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I can't think of another Bills QB drafted into a bigger dumpster fire.  He never had a chance from day one.  It's comparable to Darnold's current situation, IMO.

 

While I think this had something to do with his ultimate failure as an NFL QB, I would never say it's the only reason.  

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23 hours ago, Bill from NYC said:

Agreed but EJ was not one of them.

Oh 100% I was just agreeing with that other poster. Ej was gah-bage. 

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1 hour ago, JohnNord said:

 

I guess it depends on what you mean by the word “trash.”  As a starter he was largely below average

We were referring to his collegiate career.

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10 hours ago, Gugny said:

I can't think of another Bills QB drafted into a bigger dumpster fire.  He never had a chance from day one.  It's comparable to Darnold's current situation, IMO.

 

While I think this had something to do with his ultimate failure as an NFL QB, I would never say it's the only reason.  

 

There was definitely talent around him at times -- seeing Woods on SNF tonight reminds me of the Watkins-Woods-Goodwin lineup that had so much potential along with Jackson and Spiller in the backfield. We did him no favors putting him out there as early as we did, with a first time NFL offensive coordinator moonlighting as quarterbacks coach and no 'mentoring' veteran presence in the quarterbacks room after Kolb went down.

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On 10/17/2020 at 8:29 AM, NoSaint said:

We did him no favors. 
 

that he continues to talk about it suggests he probably wasn’t doing himself many favors either 

 

who he was as a man behind the scenes always seemed an interesting story. We often heard the polished, mature story line but there were a few reports that suggested perhaps otherwise along the way.

Not that it matters much, but what stories?  Not doubting you, I just don't recall every hearing anything negative about him off the field.

 

Personally, for a 1st round, "franchise" QB, I never felt the Bills ever offered him any real fair chance to succeed.  I concede, he may not have anyways, but he only started 17 games in 4 years with the Bills.  He wasn't Jarmarcus Russell bad...but even Russell got 25 starts in two years with the Raiders.  I think, with a different coach, he may have had a chance to be an adequate type place-holder QB, not unlie Orton and Taylor.  He actually had some good moments in his rookie season...Marrone and company may not have been the best guys to be developing a raw QB prosepect.

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I always thought the Bills in general had a tough time developing players QB's in particular that is a huge difference between the past coating regimes & McD & company thank God !! 

 

But i believe EJ could have done much better but his talent was entrusted to some coaches that had at the very least questionable teaching skills so i think he may have a argue to that fact ! 

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Most QB's do not make the NFL or stick because their development isn't proper and their are circumstances or an injury that side track their growth. Josh Allen and Lamar Jackson are perfect examples of QB's who got the support and proper development to become good players. I will freely say EJ development absolutely got sidelined, but his potential was limited to being a certain type of QB i.e using his mobility to create plays with his legs including running the ball. The moment his knee got jacked against CLE either he or the coaching staff or both stopped running him and he did become gunshy. I think regardless his chances of sticking in the NFL were limited and he really would've needed a unique coach like Greg Roman or McVay to maximize his talent. But I did think you saw some progress into the CLE game of what he could've done. The Bills certainly gave him weapons at WR, the O line wasn't bad, and the defense improved. His decision making always was the biggest issue and I am not sure any coaching can save that for a player.

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6 minutes ago, corta765 said:

Most QB's do not make the NFL or stick because their development isn't proper and their are circumstances or an injury that side track their growth. Josh Allen and Lamar Jackson are perfect examples of QB's who got the support and proper development to become good players. I will freely say EJ development absolutely got sidelined, but his potential was limited to being a certain type of QB i.e using his mobility to create plays with his legs including running the ball. The moment his knee got jacked against CLE either he or the coaching staff or both stopped running him and he did become gunshy. I think regardless his chances of sticking in the NFL were limited and he really would've needed a unique coach like Greg Roman or McVay to maximize his talent. But I did think you saw some progress into the CLE game of what he could've done. The Bills certainly gave him weapons at WR, the O line wasn't bad, and the defense improved. His decision making always was the biggest issue and I am not sure any coaching can save that for a player.

 

Greg Roman was one of our OC s while EJ was here...   It didn't make a difference for EJ .

43 minutes ago, T master said:

I always thought the Bills in general had a tough time developing players QB's in particular that is a huge difference between the past coating regimes & McD & company thank God !! 

 

But i believe EJ could have done much better but his talent was entrusted to some coaches that had at the very least questionable teaching skills so i think he may have a argue to that fact ! 

 

What talent was that?   Throwing balls into the hospitality tent?  😃

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He didn't have a good football IQ.  He studied and worked hard but he just didn't have the "it" factor. 

 

He didn't know when to lob or when to throw it on a rope....he was just guessing.   I remember in the Bengals game when Tyrod was injured, I believe it was Hogan that was open on a seem route.  He just had to throw it over the DB and it was a TD....Hogan had him beat.  But EJ threw it on a rope and right to the DB.  I was shocked.  The announcer even said "I don't understand that throw."  It was like he tried to throw it through the defender instead of putting air under it.  That was just one example of many where I shook my head.

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17 minutes ago, prissythecat said:

 

Greg Roman was one of our OC s while EJ was here...   It didn't make a difference for EJ .

 

I'm speaking his first two years, once Rex came it was Tyrods team he said as much and EJ was already damaged.

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I've read and heard a bunch of interviews with him and he ALWAYS blames everyone else except himself. You hear Allen blaming himself for an INT that bounced off the receiver and landed in the DBs hands, then you get Manuel still crying about this stuff all these years later. That's all you need to see why he never did anything of note in Buffalo

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On ‎10‎/‎18‎/‎2020 at 10:01 AM, starrymessenger said:

Coming out of college both Allen and EJ were touted as physically dominant dual threat QBs with rocket arms. When he entered the league EJ was almost exactly the same size as Josh. That's where the comparison ends. But I also think that Allen got a lot more of the good stuff when the Man Upstairs was handing it out. He's a much more dominant athlete and presence than EJ (and than 99.99% of humankind) and I often think that  his otherworldly athleticism has largely contributed (and continues to contribute)  to buying him the time needed for him to work on the many refinements of playing the position, in transitioning from athlete to athlete and QB.

No doubt EJ was drafted into a bad situation by a desperate management. But his flaws were well known and well documented. A comprehensive article in the weeks before the draft in Tomahawk Nation by someone (whose name escapes me) close to and a friend of the FSU program listed in painful detail why EJ would likely be overdrafted and ultimately fail. The writer's detailed projections could not have been more accurate and predictive. I wish Whaley had read it but he was stuck between a rock and a hard place. At least he didn't draft Gino.

This post jarred my memory. I remember this article and was amazed on how it was just SO on point.

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