{::'KayCeeS::} Posted October 3, 2020 Share Posted October 3, 2020 3 minutes ago, Rocky Landing said: Let's not pretend that Allen's first season in Buffalo was anything but woefully mismanaged. I'll pretend. Inform me why it was mismanaged. Of course you will consider the greater master plan putting us where we are right now... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted October 3, 2020 Share Posted October 3, 2020 What I love about this is it seems to further reinforce the notion that Beane wanted Allen all along, and didn't risk not getting him. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocky Landing Posted October 3, 2020 Share Posted October 3, 2020 1 minute ago, {::'KayCeeS::} said: I'll pretend. Inform me why it was mismanaged. Of course you will consider the greater master plan putting us where we are right now... Well, without gettin too far into the weeds, we drafted a QB that everyone (including Beane, and McD, btw) considered a raw talent who was not NFL-ready, that would need time on the sidelines behind a vet to learn the NFL. Having already let go of Tyrod Taylor, they hire as a vet mentor AJ McCarron, who IIRC had started all of five games in his career. They then run all of TC, and the offseason as a three-way QB competition. They cut AJ McCarron and name Late Nate Peterman as the starter, who craps the bed so spectacularly (worst week one start in franchise history) that he gets benched before the end of the third quarter. Allen then spends the next month as the starter behind the 29th ranked O-line, and the worst WR corp in the league, and Late Nate as his backup. Then, finally, in October they bring in a "vet Mentor" --- Derek Anderson. If you're going to describe that as some sort of 3-D chess... well, we'll just have to stand in disagreement. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
{::'KayCeeS::} Posted October 3, 2020 Share Posted October 3, 2020 9 minutes ago, Rocky Landing said: Well, without gettin too far into the weeds, we drafted a QB that everyone (including Beane, and McD, btw) considered a raw talent who was not NFL-ready, that would need time on the sidelines behind a vet to learn the NFL. Having already let go of Tyrod Taylor, they hire as a vet mentor AJ McCarron, who IIRC had started all of five games in his career. They then run all of TC, and the offseason as a three-way QB competition. They cut AJ McCarron and name Late Nate Peterman as the starter, who craps the bed so spectacularly (worst week one start in franchise history) that he gets benched before the end of the third quarter. Allen then spends the next month as the starter behind the 29th ranked O-line, and the worst WR corp in the league, and Late Nate as his backup. Then, finally, in October they bring in a "vet Mentor" --- Derek Anderson. If you're going to describe that as some sort of 3-D chess... well, we'll just have to stand in disagreement. I still don't see your point. Is or is not Allen a top 5 QB right now? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hondo in seattle Posted October 3, 2020 Share Posted October 3, 2020 The article is written from the Jets perspective and how the Jets screwed up the Darnold pick. I have to say that as a long-suffering Bills fan, I feel sorry for the Jets. Too many times over the years I've read articles about how and why the Bills screwed the pooch on the draft. Or a GM or coaching hire. Having been through all that - even though I'm glad the Bills are taking advantage of the woes of their opponents - it's hard for me to glory in the failure of other teams. I'll admit that at one point I wanted Josh Rosen that year. I don't watch hardly any college ball but had read how pro ready Rosen was and that he was a safe pick. By the time of the draft, though, I was both excited and nervous about the Allen pick. Maybe the highest upside, said some of the QB draft gurus, but also a big risk. I heard a scout once say that QB is the hardest position to draft. According to him, there are no QBs in college that possess the full skill set needed to succeed in the NFL. They all have to learn and get better. So the scout has to predict which ones will do that and which won't. Allen has progressed where he needed to. For whatever reason(s), it doesn't seen Darnold has. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocky Landing Posted October 3, 2020 Share Posted October 3, 2020 8 minutes ago, {::'KayCeeS::} said: I still don't see your point. Is or is not Allen a top 5 QB right now? My point was in response to another poster who speculated that Gase would have ruined Allen in 2018 had Allen gone to Miami. Follow the thread. What's your point, btw? Are you really of the opinion that the above narrative of Allen's rookie season is an example of proper management? In my opinion, the fact that Allen is a top five QB does not indicate that putting a rookie QB in the worst situation possible is going to be good for their development. IMO, you can't look at Allens current stats and claim that, in hindsight, pairing Allen with literally the worst QB in the league, or any of the other elements I outlined, was a good idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
{::'KayCeeS::} Posted October 3, 2020 Share Posted October 3, 2020 5 minutes ago, Rocky Landing said: My point was in response to another poster who speculated that Gase would have ruined Allen in 2018 had Allen gone to Miami. Follow the thread. What's your point, btw? Are you really of the opinion that the above narrative of Allen's rookie season is an example of proper management? In my opinion, the fact that Allen is a top five QB does not indicate that putting a rookie QB in the worst situation possible is going to be good for their development. IMO, you can't look at Allens current stats and claim that, in hindsight, pairing Allen with literally the worst QB in the league, or any of the other elements I outlined, was a good idea. Wouldn't you say that proper management has led to the current results? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocky Landing Posted October 3, 2020 Share Posted October 3, 2020 1 hour ago, {::'KayCeeS::} said: Wouldn't you say that proper management has led to the current results? 2019, sure. 2018? Nope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaos Posted October 3, 2020 Share Posted October 3, 2020 2 hours ago, {::'KayCeeS::} said: Yeah, those helped but I've graduated from them. Now I just write stupid posts and move on. Fixed it for you. No charge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utah John Posted October 3, 2020 Share Posted October 3, 2020 I don't feel sorry for the Jets. That organization deserves to suffer for its incredible ineptitude. Their approach seems to be to take the lazy way out, bringing in high-cost older players as if a few of those guys can make the whole team better, while a cast of JAGs is there to fill out the ranks. The Bills do the opposite -- our FO researches players carefully, understands their character, and brings in good to very good players (but not the best in the league at any position, which would distort the salary cap) to build a strong roster top to bottom. Putting injured players into a game, as the Jets did with Becton and Darnold, is outrageous, and Gase will lose the locker room if he hasn't already. It's clear why Jamal Adams wanted OUT of there ASAP. The guy I feel sorry for is Rosen. Apparently, a good NFL prospect. Goes to the Cardinals with a truly lousy offensive line, and the team is terrible his rookie year. Then before his second year, a new coach comes in who wants Kyler, and Rosen is dumped to the Dolphins, who also had a poor team. He doesn't fit there, and the Dolphins then draft Tua. Rosen's confidence has to be shot. If he's up to it, he could try for a Fitzpatrick career, signing up as a backup somewhere, then hexing the starter so he can come in and look like the solution. Whether Rosen's game is as adaptable as Fitz's is, I have no idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyC81 Posted October 4, 2020 Share Posted October 4, 2020 2 hours ago, Utah John said: I don't feel sorry for the Jets. That organization deserves to suffer for its incredible ineptitude. Their approach seems to be to take the lazy way out, bringing in high-cost older players as if a few of those guys can make the whole team better, while a cast of JAGs is there to fill out the ranks. The Bills do the opposite -- our FO researches players carefully, understands their character, and brings in good to very good players (but not the best in the league at any position, which would distort the salary cap) to build a strong roster top to bottom. Putting injured players into a game, as the Jets did with Becton and Darnold, is outrageous, and Gase will lose the locker room if he hasn't already. It's clear why Jamal Adams wanted OUT of there ASAP. The Jets, whether you want to consider them New Jersey or not, represent a “glamour “ city but generally don’t go after the marquee players. I don’t recall the state of their team in past seasons, but I don’t remember them going after Peyton Manning when he was available. Most NFL teams, including them, should consider themselves stupid for not taking a chance on Drew Brees when he was available. They didn’t even go for a Joe Flacco until now when he’s 35. Their other recent QBs have been of the Fitzpatrick, McCown variety. As others have said, even when they draft a Darnold or Mark Sanchez they don’t give him enough talent to be successful. Robbie Anderson isn’t a Pro Bowl player but he was an effective deep weapon for Darnold and they let him leave. They replaced him with Breshad Permian, who cashed in on a few good games in the 2nd half of the 2019 season with Tampa. He’s done little. They also brought in our old friend, Chris Hogan and drafted Denzel Mims. That receiving crew isn’t on the same planet compared to what the Bills have right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLFan Posted October 4, 2020 Share Posted October 4, 2020 8 hours ago, Albany,n.y. said: I know it's nitpicking, but there are a couple of flaws in the arricle. 1) The author states Arizona was at #10. " The Cardinals, however, were looming at No. 10, and the Bills were originally picking at No. 12." They were at 15 when the Bills traded up to 7. They moved up to 10 to select Rosen when the Raiders were on the clock at 10. They didn't have the #10 pick until they traded up, presumably to get ahead of Miami. 2) When the Ravens drafted Jackson, Marty Mornhinwig was the Ravens OC, Roman was TE coach Jackson's rookie year. Roman was promoted to OC for the 2019 season. Saying that Roman was on the offensive coaching staff doesn't mean he'd be working with Jackson while coaching the TEs. Thanks for this. It is not nitpicking. If the author can whiff on easily verifiable facts, it makes you wonder about the veracity of the rest of the piece. If you want to be taken seriously, check the facts. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malazan Posted October 4, 2020 Share Posted October 4, 2020 8 hours ago, Albany,n.y. said: I know it's nitpicking, but there are a couple of flaws in the arricle. 1) The author states Arizona was at #10. " The Cardinals, however, were looming at No. 10, and the Bills were originally picking at No. 12." They were at 15 when the Bills traded up to 7. They moved up to 10 to select Rosen when the Raiders were on the clock at 10. They didn't have the #10 pick until they traded up, presumably to get ahead of Miami. 2) When the Ravens drafted Jackson, Marty Mornhinwig was the Ravens OC, Roman was TE coach Jackson's rookie year. Roman was promoted to OC for the 2019 season. Saying that Roman was on the offensive coaching staff doesn't mean he'd be working with Jackson while coaching the TEs. That's a little more than nitpicky. Those are kinda major facts to get wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
{::'KayCeeS::} Posted October 4, 2020 Share Posted October 4, 2020 10 hours ago, Chaos said: Fixed it for you. No charge. What kind of human being makes fun of someone living their best life? You should be ashamed of yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philly McButterpants Posted October 4, 2020 Share Posted October 4, 2020 I want to put on the record that the author of that piece really, really needs to go back on his ADHD meds. Woof. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ganesh Posted October 4, 2020 Share Posted October 4, 2020 10 hours ago, ColeB said: The Jets, whether you want to consider them New Jersey or not, represent a “glamour “ city but generally don’t go after the marquee players. I don’t recall the state of their team in past seasons, but I don’t remember them going after Peyton Manning when he was available. They did sign Brett Favre Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Romes Posted October 4, 2020 Share Posted October 4, 2020 21 hours ago, {::'KayCeeS::} said: What Allen proves is that having the right environment and support around a QB is the most important factor in his success. Yeah surrounding him with Nate Peterman as a the mentoring veteran signal caller, Kelvin Benjamin as your #1, Zay Jones as your #2, Vlad Ducasse centering the line.. Allen’s success has been all Allen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
{::'KayCeeS::} Posted October 4, 2020 Share Posted October 4, 2020 1 minute ago, Charles Romes said: Yeah surrounding him with Nate Peterman as a the mentoring veteran signal caller, Kelvin Benjamin as your #1, Zay Jones as your #2, Vlad Ducasse centering the line.. Allen’s success has been all Allen. The results don't lie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royale with Cheese Posted October 4, 2020 Share Posted October 4, 2020 21 hours ago, Chaos said: "most important thing" is your phrase, not mine. Personally I think the most important thing is the players talent. You are comparing a 5th round QB talent with a top 10 drafted QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaos Posted October 4, 2020 Share Posted October 4, 2020 (edited) 48 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said: You are comparing a 5th round QB talent with a top 10 drafted QB. You r missing the point. The other poster said "support is most important" meaning it is more important than talent. Which of course is absurd. Edited October 4, 2020 by Chaos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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