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buffaloboyinATL

Dan Orlovsky just did AFCE QB rankings on ESPN. Had Allen at #3!

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Posted (edited)

"Overrated . Clap, clap, clap clap clap. Overrated...……  Actually, "Tua is , by far #1. the only question is between the strong-armed, great running, inaccurate, knucklehead and the guy with no weapons and is afraid of ghosts for #2.

Edited by MOVALLEYRANDY
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18 minutes ago, FireChans said:

This isn’t a media bashing thread but if they don’t love Allen, they have an “agenda.”

 

Hmmmm

 

It's possible he is an undercover PFF agent.

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Every time I see articles/rankings like this, it makes me wonder if I'm blinded by loyalty; if I'm just too focused on the Buffalo Bills to realize that Josh really is more toward the bottom of the pack. In my mind he's a franchise QB and knocking on the door of the top 10. But nationwide, people just don't see it that way. Maybe it was the lack of prime time games in his 1st two seasons.

People constantly overlook the playoff appearance and even the fact that he had more rushing TDs than Lamar Jackson.  

So my question is: Are we crazy, or is the nationwide NFL audience blind? Probably a combo of both.

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13 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:


Not early on.  Before he was drafted, he wasn’t high on Allen at all.

 

On WGR, he said that “Allen doesn’t seem to have a plan when he gets to the LOS”.

Hearing the truth can really some people's ears... and feelings.

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17 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:


Not early on.  Before he was drafted, he wasn’t high on Allen at all.

 

On WGR, he said that “Allen doesn’t seem to have a plan when he gets to the LOS”.

From what I remember his biggest supporters were Chris Simms and Orlovsky.

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Posted (edited)
26 minutes ago, Gugny said:

How can a QB who's never taken a snap in the NFL be better than Allen or Darnold?

 

Good question.  How can a guy who was a crappy college and NFL player be an NFL analyst?

Edited by Doc
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Just now, Clutchwarfare said:

Every time I see articles/rankings like this, it makes me wonder if I'm blinded by loyalty; if I'm just too focused on the Buffalo Bills to realize that Josh really is more toward the bottom of the pack. In my mind he's a franchise QB and knocking on the door of the top 10. But nationwide, people just don't see it that way. Maybe it was the lack of prime time games in his 1st two seasons.

People constantly overlook the playoff appearance and even the fact that he had more rushing TDs than Lamar Jackson.  

So my question is: Are we crazy, or is the nationwide NFL audience blind? Probably a combo of both.

 

I think many people see him as a glorified RB playing QB who still has accuracy issues. He really hasn't been that great (so far) but he did improve from year 1 to year 2. He needs to take a big step this year. Third year in league so he has experience and a good team around him now. I will say in his defense he probably should have sat for a year but the Bills ****ed up their QB situation badly with Peterman and McCarron. It was basically sink or swim year 1 on a bad team with no real weapons on offense to help him.

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Posted (edited)
20 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

How is it silly to think that it's impossible for a rookie to come in and be an average QB right away when it's happened less than 5 times in the past 50 years?

That seems pretty unlikely to me.

 

At any rate, let's take QBR for example just because it's an actual metric we can look at. Allen and Darnold finished 24th and 25th last year. Rookies to rank 23rd or better since 2010 (bolded if they ranked in the upper half of the league):

  • Kyler Murray
  • Daniel Jones
  • Baker Mayfield
  • Deshaun Watson* - didn't play enough games to qualify but he was awesome as a rookie in his 6 starts
  • Dak Prescott
  • Jameis Winston
  • Teddy Bridgewater
  • Andrew Luck
  • Robert Griffin III
  • Russell Wilson
  • Cam Newton
  • Andy Dalton

So in all likelihood, there's 1 or 2 QBs in this draft class that will rank ahead of where Allen and Darnold were this past season (obviously not accounting for any improvement those two might make).

 

Obviously this is just QBR; there's many other and better ways to analyze the QB position. But point is, Allen and Darnold haven't been anything special up to this point; there's no reason to think a rookie couldn't conceivably be better and there's no reason to think a rookie couldn't be at least an average starter right away. Obviously we won't know until we actually see Tua play (and I agree with you that I tend to think Fitzpatrick will be the starter at the beginning of the year in the very least and possibly the whole year). But I also think Tua is a very special prospect if he can stay healthy. The only QB prospects I've given a higher draft grade to in the past 4 years are Lamar Jackson, Pat Mahomes, and Joe Burrow.

 

TLDR: Barring Allen or Darnold making a leap this year (which is entirely possible and maybe expected), Tua (provided he's healthy and actually plays) and Burrow should have a decent chance of outplaying those two.

Edited by DCOrange
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Posted (edited)
27 minutes ago, Clutchwarfare said:

Every time I see articles/rankings like this, it makes me wonder if I'm blinded by loyalty; if I'm just too focused on the Buffalo Bills to realize that Josh really is more toward the bottom of the pack. In my mind he's a franchise QB and knocking on the door of the top 10. But nationwide, people just don't see it that way. Maybe it was the lack of prime time games in his 1st two seasons.

People constantly overlook the playoff appearance and even the fact that he had more rushing TDs than Lamar Jackson.  

So my question is: Are we crazy, or is the nationwide NFL audience blind? Probably a combo of both.

Ha! Maybe that is why I posted this, I am seeking validation.  I have watched every snap Allen has taken as a pro, not to mention every practice throw I can find, etc. and I am very excited about his potential as a pro.  I know he has flaws and areas that he will need to keep improving, but I rank him closer to where you just did. That's why I took note of DO ranking him below an injured rookie. I wonder if I am a homer with blinders on.

 

 

Edited by buffaloboyinATL
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17 minutes ago, Clutchwarfare said:

Every time I see articles/rankings like this, it makes me wonder if I'm blinded by loyalty; if I'm just too focused on the Buffalo Bills to realize that Josh really is more toward the bottom of the pack. In my mind he's a franchise QB and knocking on the door of the top 10. But nationwide, people just don't see it that way. Maybe it was the lack of prime time games in his 1st two seasons.

People constantly overlook the playoff appearance and even the fact that he had more rushing TDs than Lamar Jackson.  

So my question is: Are we crazy, or is the nationwide NFL audience blind? Probably a combo of both.

 

What "people see nationwide" is a notorious lagging indicator. I trust my eyes and I like what I see.

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50 minutes ago, buffaloboyinATL said:

Kind of. He tends to go back and forth on him.  I just can't believe he would rank a rookie over a QB who just took his team to the playoffs.  

If I knew all of them were healthy, I would definitely rather have Tua over any qb in the afc East.  
 

and the defense took us to the playoffs.  Our offense scored 19 points a game.  Allen did some good things but it was a great situation where he didn’t have to do much to win games.  It was an insanely easy schedule with a top 3 defense.  A lot of QBs would have taken us to the playoffs. 
 

but it’s amazing how sensitive some of you are.  You immediately attack the source (yeah what does a 10 year plus nfl backup qb know about the position?) and try to discredit them.  Allen has upside and has done some good things.  But he averages 184 passing yards/ game.  In no way is that special or deserving of anointing.  
 

the best thing about all this is Allen has all the power to prove doubters wrong.  Much tougher schedule and he has playmakers all around.  The excuses are done and hopefully he really becomes a franchise guy.

38 minutes ago, dma0034 said:

To be fair I may rank Fitz slightly higher than Allen or Darnold right now. Definitely not Tua, especially after having surgery

I do think as of right now, I think Fitz is the best qb. Now Long term, Id go with Tua first and Stidham last.

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41 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

How can a QB who's never taken a snap in the NFL be better than Allen or Darnold?

I think Trevor Lawrence is better than Nathan Peterman...

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26 minutes ago, Clutchwarfare said:

Every time I see articles/rankings like this, it makes me wonder if I'm blinded by loyalty; if I'm just too focused on the Buffalo Bills to realize that Josh really is more toward the bottom of the pack. In my mind he's a franchise QB and knocking on the door of the top 10. But nationwide, people just don't see it that way. Maybe it was the lack of prime time games in his 1st two seasons.

People constantly overlook the playoff appearance and even the fact that he had more rushing TDs than Lamar Jackson.  

So my question is: Are we crazy, or is the nationwide NFL audience blind? Probably a combo of both.

Trust me I used to do it all the time.  We both completely overrate guys we like and underrate guys we don’t (Gilmore).  If Allen was on another team, we would view him as the weakness of a really good time a la Trubisky or Bortles.  
 

but again, Allen has all the power to change this.

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I get that Allen is a polarizing player. Some in the media love him (Simms, Schein, Kiper) and some don’t (Orlovsky, pff). I don’t take issue when there is a reasonable take (ie Tua and Darnold are better). I don’t necessarily agree but I understand the logic. I take much greater issue when pff asks “who will have a better career Allen or Trubisky?” They know damn well that Trubisky may never start another game. That’s not reasonable imo. 

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Just now, freddyjj said:

1.  First, consider the source!

 

 

Which he puts in his bio and owns.

 

but typical attack the messenger post.  If former guys who started nfl games can’t criticize qbs, how can any of us?  Pretty simple way to think.

3 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

I think Trevor Lawrence is better than Nathan Peterman...

Yeah, what an insane statement (though McDermott might think different!)

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32 minutes ago, MOVALLEYRANDY said:

"Overrated . Clap, clap, clap clap clap. Overrated...……  Actually, "Tua is , by far #1. the only question is between the strong-armed, great running, inaccurate, knucklehead and the guy with no weapons and is afraid of ghosts for #2.

Knucklehead? 

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1 minute ago, Kirby Jackson said:

I get that Allen is a polarizing player. Some in the media love him (Simms, Schein, Kiper) and some don’t (Orlovsky, pff). I don’t take issue when there is a reasonable take (ie Tua and Darnold are better). I don’t necessarily agree but I understand the logic. I take much greater issue when pff asks “who will have a better career Allen or Trubisky?” They know damn well that Trubisky may never start another game. That’s not reasonable imo. 

I think DO (who I like a lot) has been great at giving Allen credit and critiquing his faults.  And I get why the MT thing bother people but Allen had essentially the same second year as him.  And guess who was high on that favorite drop ball stat list? Mitchell. One less than the Bills.   Imagine his numbers if all his wrs caught his passes!!!

15 minutes ago, starrymessenger said:

 

What "people see nationwide" is a notorious lagging indicator. I trust my eyes and I like what I see.

But to be fair, given what we have watched at QB for 20 years, we have a warped view on Qb play.  200 yards passing is not celebrated by other fan bases like it is here.  We seen bottom 5 qb play for 20 years.  

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