How McDermott and Frazier confuse offenses

[Buffalo716]

25 minutes ago, billsfan_34 said:

Good catch!

Yeah I may know the game of football inside and out forward and backward

 

But computers not super savvy. So I couldn't find a pic of the bills in that formation but I could McDermott's Panthers squad lol

 

And as I said the premise of the Dual A Gap look is the same and McDermott been doing it as long as anyone around today. He learned from the legend Jim Johnson who was a genius 

 

The combination between Frazier and McDermott is honestly bread and butter. McDermott's a little bit more aggressive , Frazier's a little bit more toned back

 

And the scheme turns out to be a super complex yet fluid organism that swarms the football like a hive of bees

[GunnerBill]

3 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

 

I would expect Frazier to be getting another HC chance soon because he is gonna tear it up

 

Don't see that happening. 61 year old (by the end of the 2020 season) retread with a low key personality? Good luck selling that your fans.

 

Frazier is here as long as McDermott wants him if Frazier were say 7 or 8 years younger, however, he'd have been gone this past offseason.

[machine gun kelly]

10 hours ago, JOE IN HAMPTON ROADS said:

why are we sharing this with the world exactly?

Joe, I’m sure you know every offensive coordinator in the league knows these coverages, it’s just how it’s called, when they are disguising, bluffing, attacking that makes Frazier, McD, and the players great.

[machine gun kelly]

716, thanks for starting this thread.  It sparked a great deal of discussion by the crew.

[Victory Formation]

Now correct me if I’m wrong but isn’t Palms/Quarter coverage/Cover 4/Cover 6 vulnerable against the run? Seems like a great package in obvious passing situations as our secondary can sit back and ball hawk but running teams can punish us on the ground and if that happens enough then they can start moving the ball on us via play action. We were still ranked 10th in rushing yards though so clearly Frazier/McD do a great job in getting our defense in the right formations. So I’d say quarters is a nice package to run in a passing league but will likely not be used as frequently against the New England Patriots and Tennessee Titans of the world.

[atlbillsfan1975]

@Buffalo716 did you come across anytime when McD or Frazier used a 5-1-5 defense?

A couple of player additions this offseason have me wondering if we may see this alignment. We have a few d linemen now who can play multiple spots along the front. This d is also something I could see useful against teams with mobile QB’s and help against the RPO.

Edited May 10, 2020 by atlbillsfan1975

[thebandit27]

11 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Worth saying though that Frazier was a Jim Johnson guy as well as McDermott. He did then have experience in that Dungy Tampa 2 scheme as well and has run bits of both in his career as a DC. While I have no doubt McDermott remains the architect of the scheme I think Frazier has more input than most imagine. As a play caller I think he is decent but when he gets stuck in a rut I think it is because his tendency when teams start to move the ball on him is to get more conservative and predictable (the idea being simplify the calls let the players play fast). 

Remember that Frazier also played in Buddy Ryan’s 46 with the 85 Bears.

 

He can adapt.

[Punching Bag]

11 hours ago, JOE IN HAMPTON ROADS said:

why are we sharing this with the world exactly?

 

11 hours ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

I'm thinking that maybe, just maybe, NFL opponents know this *****, too.

 

Just maybe.

 

 

Well just maybe teams like Bengals who will not spend money might come here and learn something.

 

 

 

Maybe.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

29 minutes ago, Limeaid said:

 

 

Well just maybe teams like Bengals who will not spend money might come here and learn something.

 

 

 

Maybe.

 

Uh. No.

 

[Buffalo716]

2 hours ago, Victory Formation said:

Now correct me if I’m wrong but isn’t Palms/Quarter coverage/Cover 4/Cover 6 vulnerable against the run? Seems like a great package in obvious passing situations as our secondary can sit back and ball hawk but running teams can punish us on the ground and if that happens enough then they can start moving the ball on us via play action. We were still ranked 10th in rushing yards though so clearly Frazier/McD do a great job in getting our defense in the right formations. So I’d say quarters is a nice package to run in a passing league but will likely not be used as frequently against the New England Patriots and Tennessee Titans of the world.

As I said earlier football is a chess match.. throughout all four quarters in 60 minutes

 

This isn't the only defensive play call that they use. It just became one of their most effective passing play calls

 

Versus Tennessee there was a lot more crashing the line of scrimmage to take away the run

[Happy]

4 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Don't see that happening. 61 year old (by the end of the 2020 season) retread with a low key personality? Good luck selling that your fans.

 

Frazier is here as long as McDermott wants him if Frazier were say 7 or 8 years younger, however, he'd have been gone this past offseason.

 

I think Frazier is entirely too conservative to be a HC.  If this was 1986 or so, maybe.  Not now.  That said, I think Frazier is the perfect compliment to run what McD has constructed on the defense, and mentioned that earlier up the thread.

[billsfan_34]

6 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

Yeah I may know the game of football inside and out forward and backward

 

But computers not super savvy. So I couldn't find a pic of the bills in that formation but I could McDermott's Panthers squad lol

 

And as I said the premise of the Dual A Gap look is the same and McDermott been doing it as long as anyone around today. He learned from the legend Jim Johnson who was a genius 

 

The combination between Frazier and McDermott is honestly bread and butter. McDermott's a little bit more aggressive , Frazier's a little bit more toned back

 

And the scheme turns out to be a super complex yet fluid organism that swarms the football like a hive of bees

I have loved the McD/Frazier pairing from day 1. Now it is time to put our boot on other teams throats.

[ColoradoBills]

19 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

If you have the personnel to run palms coverage. Which 95% of the NFL doesn't...

 

You are at a strict X's and O's advantage. As I said in the OP, the modern NFL offense stretches you vertically and horizontally

 

Cover 4 has long been used to counteract teams vertically. But it's horizontally challenged

 

The palms coverage gives the bills the best possible way of counteracting teams vertically and horizontally on the same play

 

This is a reason why the bills did not give up any bombs really. The base quarters of palms is amazing against verticals, and when it shifts to its man elements, Tres reaction speed allows him to get to out breaking routes at will

 

I have some other questions if you're game, but these are more about current personnel and what you see about the RCB position.

 

Do you see a capable (or one notch above capable) RCB on the team right now?

Could one of the younger guys still be developing to become that?  I bring this up about the earlier comments about the complexity of the defense.

Can Josh Norman get back to something of his former self being back in McDermott's system and could he be a 1 year stop gap?

[boater]

19 hours ago, TwistofFate said:

It's no surprise the safety they took in their draft from a small school was heavily scouted by Buffalo and rumored to be our pick if he was on the board.  Belichick knows great defenses revolve around great safeties that's why he's always had them.

That bastard!

[GoBills808]

1 minute ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

I have some other questions if you're game, but these are more about current personnel and what you see about the RCB position.

 

Do you see a capable (or one notch above capable) RCB on the team right now?

Could one of the younger guys still be developing to become that?  I bring this up about the earlier comments about the complexity of the defense.

Can Josh Norman get back to something of his former self being back in McDermott's system and could he be a 1 year stop gap?

I can try to answer a few of these-

 

Yes there are a few capable options right now. I expect whichever of Norman/Wallace show better to slide into that spot, my guess is Norman will start but we will see a lot of Wallace to spell him esp on run downs. IIRC Wallace played injured last year and should hopefully bounce back to form

 

I don't know much about the rookies but they have been making it a point to bring along Neal in the big nickel package plus he's a ST staple, I do not know if they are trying to carve out a larger role for him but they seem to trust him. Taron Johnson however imo is a stud. The staff plays him in big spots, he understands the system and where he fits in, he is a very solid tackler in run support for his size...he does a TON every time he goes in. I really like Johnson and even though I think he probably lacks some of the elite athleticism to play outside (not quite smooth/fluid enough lower body transitions etc) the dude is GAME. And easily smart enough to make a starting spot for himself depending on the % of time they run base 

 

I think they Norman will start at CB2 and he will enjoy the Edmunds shading w/safety help and will play off LOS majority of the time. He is still quick enough but doesn't have the same physical edge to engage and throw wideouts off timing-wise which is just what happens when DBs get older. I think he can still be effective and is a wholly different player at this point than Wallace which is what makes it such an interesting signing to me

[Buffalo716]

19 hours ago, TwistofFate said:

Safety play... /end

 

The ground that our safeties can cover and the understanding of what they need to do, allows us to disguise the majority of our coverages where a quarterback must decipher what we're actually doing post-snap.

 

I've watched Bill Belichick go into deep detail of how difficult it is to attack our defense and it all revolves around our safeties. I know Belichick is in love with Micah Hyde.

 

It's no surprise the safety they took in their draft from a small school was heavily scouted by Buffalo and rumored to be our pick if he was on the board.  Belichick knows great defenses revolve around great safeties that's why he's always had them.

 

The problem with that is Dugger isn't some covering specialist right now, actually a long way to go

 

He will be an in the box safety or a sub package LBr for a few years at least . He is nothing like a Hyde

 

He is an enforcer at this point with great speed but his coverage skills are lacking

 

McDermott wanted him to play the box role in his big nickel, not cover half the field in coverage

[ColoradoBills]

8 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

I can try to answer a few of these-

 

Yes there are a few capable options right now. I expect whichever of Norman/Wallace show better to slide into that spot, my guess is Norman will start but we will see a lot of Wallace to spell him esp on run downs. IIRC Wallace played injured last year and should hopefully bounce back to form

 

I don't know much about the rookies but they have been making it a point to bring along Neal in the big nickel package plus he's a ST staple, I do not know if they are trying to carve out a larger role for him but they seem to trust him. Taron Johnson however imo is a stud. The staff plays him in big spots, he understands the system and where he fits in, he is a very solid tackler in run support for his size...he does a TON every time he goes in. I really like Johnson and even though I think he probably lacks some of the elite athleticism to play outside (not quite smooth/fluid enough lower body transitions etc) the dude is GAME. And easily smart enough to make a starting spot for himself depending on the % of time they run base 

 

I think they Norman will start at CB2 and he will enjoy the Edmunds shading w/safety help and will play off LOS majority of the time. He is still quick enough but doesn't have the same physical edge to engage and throw wideouts off timing-wise which is just what happens when DBs get older. I think he can still be effective and is a wholly different player at this point than Wallace which is what makes it such an interesting signing to me

 

Thanks for answering 808.  I was generally thinking the same thing but there was so much CB2 talk around draft time I was questioning

myself missing something big.  I have a limited expertise on this but I too thought the young guys looked like they were developing pretty good.

[Buffalo716]

32 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

I have some other questions if you're game, but these are more about current personnel and what you see about the RCB position.

 

Do you see a capable (or one notch above capable) RCB on the team right now?

Could one of the younger guys still be developing to become that?  I bring this up about the earlier comments about the complexity of the defense.

Can Josh Norman get back to something of his former self being back in McDermott's system and could he be a 1 year stop gap?

I've Always believed that as a player if you aren't progressing, you are regressing... Especially in the NFL

 

Between Levi, Norman , and Gaines they should atleast be able to hold it down adequately by committee based on game plan and opposing WRs

 

Levi should still be progressing in the system tho he will always have some physical limitations. He has a good feel for the game and good instincts. He just has to play off the ball a lot because he doesn't have the speed to press

 

Norman should have 1 year left. What made Norman so good in his prime was his closing burst and instincts just like Tre.. unfortunately he has started to lose some of that closing Burst BUT a reunion with McDermott should give him the thing he's been missing. Scheme fit

 

McDermott and Frazier are so good at scheming they can draw a trap. Basically a play were they will dictate where the ball will go. 

 

So on 3rd and 9 they can draw a trap play to basically make the quarterback go where they want him to go, short of the sticks

 

And all Levi or Norman has to do is make the tackle 6 yards downfield. 

 

Norman and Tre have both been all pros in Sean's system so I wouldn't be surprised to see Norman play well for a season. Maybe 3-4 picks

[Don Otreply]

Oh sure, Ho ahead and tell everyone...

[MILFHUNTER#518]

20 hours ago, CNYfan said:

I think Diagram 1 shows the Patriots?

Carolina D vs Chargers O