How McDermott and Frazier confuse offenses

[Buffalo716]

Football players in the NFL are the best of the best as are the coaches.

 

Offenses today are more complex and evolved than ever before. Offenses attack defenses with speed , vertically and horizontally to stretch defenses

 

3-4 WR sets to attack weaknesses at CB or LBr

 

There are lots of advantages to the offense

 

Sean has combatted this by creating a scheme based on gap integrity , complex coverages in the secondary and timely blitzes

 

I have 2 diagrams that show how Sean will confuse offenses pre and post snap and get QBs to hold the ball longer or panic and get rid of it too soon

 

 

[co_springs_billsfan]

Go on...

[Buffalo716]

Diagram 1 shows Sean's lauded dual a gap look. The diagram is from when he is in Carolina but the principal the same

 

This is designed to confuse offensive lines and quarterbacks pre-snap. This is a third-down staple of McDermott's defense

 

He doesn't even need to bring both linebackers in the A gap. It's about preplay confusion and making the quarterback hold on to the ball a split-second longer

 

From here he can run any number of coverage from cover one to cover 3.. this also forces the quarterback to make a decision about Max protecting.. because the bills show six... Max protecting plays into the bills defenses hand because they only want three receivers going on a route

 

And after Sean bluffs 4 third Downs in a row. He will bring the dual A gap pressure and they're not ready for it

 

QBs tend to check down instantly or get eaten up because the look confuses them

Edited May 9, 2020 by Buffalo716

[Buffalo716]

Diagram 2 shows Sean's favorite coverage from last year. Palms coverage out of a cover 4 look

 

Palms coverage is a very advanced coverage that most NFL teams don't even run its so complex. It all comes down to the awareness and the communication between corner and safety tandems

 

It's a quarters look with man elements depending on the offensive look.. where out routes are cover 4 killers , Palms counteracts that

 

Outside corners in quarters coverage CONVERT to MAN on slot out routes. Changing from quarters coverage to man.

 

The safeties in quarters coverage THEN became man up on the outside receivers

 

This is a very complex design but smart corners like Tre and Levi and Safeties like Hyde and Poyer allow us to execute this advance coverage almost flawlessly

 

Tres reaction and closing speed is Elite and this plays right into his hands

 

Now defenses don't know how to attack Buffalo's cover 4 because the green areas ARE NO LONGER GREEN

 

The slot wide receivers dictate what technique our corners and safeties will play

Edited May 9, 2020 by Buffalo716

[CNYfan]

I think Diagram 1 shows the Patriots?

[Buffalo716]

2 minutes ago, CNYfan said:

I think Diagram 1 shows the Patriots?

Diagram 1 is the Carolina Panthers while McDermott was there

[Happy]

2 minutes ago, CNYfan said:

I think Diagram 1 shows the Patriots?

 

Carolina.  The OP mentions this, but states the defense is still the same as what McD runs at Buffalo today.

[Buffalo716]

If you have the personnel to run palms coverage. Which 95% of the NFL doesn't...

 

You are at a strict X's and O's advantage. As I said in the OP, the modern NFL offense stretches you vertically and horizontally

 

Cover 4 has long been used to counteract teams vertically. But it's horizontally challenged

 

The palms coverage gives the bills the best possible way of counteracting teams vertically and horizontally on the same play

 

This is a reason why the bills did not give up any bombs really. The base quarters of palms is amazing against verticals, and when it shifts to its man elements, Tres reaction speed allows him to get to out breaking routes at will

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

Everyone always says it’s all about how much ground our Safety’s can cover. They give our defense freedom to disguise a ton. They both are so excellent and their value goes way beyond the stat sheet.

[Buffalo716]

Just now, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

Everyone always says it’s all about how much ground our Safety’s can cover. They give our defense freedom to disguise a ton. They both are so excellent and their value goes way beyond the stat sheet.

Well Sean used quarters coverage more than anything last year and both our safeties can take infinite ground away playing that technique

 

You could also disguise it in 50 different ways. There's a reason we weren't beat over the top last year

[GoBills808]

Good stuff

 

You need smart safeties who can adjust and make the right calls...like in regular cover2 they'll stay leveraged on WR1 until the second crosses vertical which is standard play, now they play all verticals I believe? Need to communicate w/ corners to come off into flat and pick up deep routes

 

Edmunds' range and instincts to settle into gaps and then Milano's athleticism wipes out a lot of underneath stuff but I've seen Poyer come up to LOS diagnose a run check and somehow White magically drifts into zone behind to cover...the whole secondary plays off each other so well

 

You need to have brains to play DB in McDermott and Frazier's defense

[Happy]

How much of a role does Frazier play, besides the obvious that he is the DC?  This is McD's architected defense, but McD doesn't want to be the DC, at least not on game day.  Is Frazier just McD's proxy or does he have more of an input?

[Buffalo716]

2 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

Good stuff

 

You need smart safeties who can adjust and make the right calls...like in regular cover2 they'll stay leveraged on WR1 until the second crosses vertical which is standard play, now they play all verticals I believe? Need to communicate w/ corners to come off into flat and pick up deep routes

 

Edmunds' range and instincts to settle into gaps and then Milano's athleticism wipes out a lot of underneath stuff but I've seen Poyer come up to LOS diagnose a run check and somehow White magically drifts into zone behind to cover...the whole secondary plays off each other so well

 

You need to have brains to play DB in McDermott and Frazier's defense

There are a lot of cover 2 variations but typically the squatting cornerback in cloud coverage will play the vertical from underneath leverage if all are running verts

 

And yes McDermott Fraser's system is as much about brains as it is talent

[GunnerBill]

Just now, Buffalo716 said:

There are a lot of cover 2 variations but typically the squatting cornerback in cloud coverage will play the vertical from underneath leverage if all are running verts

 

And yes McDermott Fraser's system is as much about brains as it is talent

 

Brains and communication.

[Buffalo716]

5 minutes ago, Happy said:

How much of a role does Frazier play, besides the obvious that he is the DC?  This is McD's architected defense, but McD doesn't want to be the DC, at least not on game day.  Is Frazier just McD's proxy or does he have more of an input?

Frasier is a huge part of what we do no doubt

 

He started a little slow but his playcalling is very very good and he knows situational football and what McDermott wants out of his defense. I think he needed that wake up call 2 years ago

 

Though I doubt he's the one that implemented palms coverage or the Dual a gap looks. He is more of a teacher and developer than white board play designer

Edited May 9, 2020 by Buffalo716

[JOE IN HAMPTON ROADS]

why are we sharing this with the world exactly?

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

4 minutes ago, JOE IN HAMPTON ROADS said:

why are we sharing this with the world exactly?

 

I'm thinking that maybe, just maybe, NFL opponents know this *****, too.

 

Just maybe.

 

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, Buffalo716 said:

Frasier is a huge part of what we do no doubt

 

He started a little slow but his playcalling is very very good and he knows situational football and what McDermott wants out of his defense. I think he needed that wake up call 2 years ago

 

Though I doubt he's the one that implemented palms coverage or the Dual a gap looks

 

Worth saying though that Frazier was a Jim Johnson guy as well as McDermott. He did then have experience in that Dungy Tampa 2 scheme as well and has run bits of both in his career as a DC. While I have no doubt McDermott remains the architect of the scheme I think Frazier has more input than most imagine. As a play caller I think he is decent but when he gets stuck in a rut I think it is because his tendency when teams start to move the ball on him is to get more conservative and predictable (the idea being simplify the calls let the players play fast). 

[GoBills808]

7 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

There are a lot of cover 2 variations but typically the squatting cornerback in cloud coverage will play the vertical from underneath leverage if all are running verts

 

And yes McDermott Fraser's system is as much about brains as it is talent

I expect to see a lot more hurry up against the defense this season

 

The only time they can get exposed is when they can't see/communicate checks at LOS because the offense is already moving into position

[Buffalo716]

Just now, GunnerBill said:

 

Worth saying though that Frazier was a Jim Johnson guy as well as McDermott. He did then have experience in that Dungy Tampa 2 scheme as well and has run bits of both in his career as a DC. While I have no doubt McDermott remains the architect of the scheme I think Frazier has more input than most imagine. As a play caller I think he is decent but when he gets stuck in a rut I think it is because his tendency when teams start to move the ball on him is to get more conservative and predictable (the idea being simplify the calls let the players play fast). 

Very true and Johnson could dial up masterpieces

 

They both learned from a legend

 

Every play caller has positive and negative tendencies, and sure Fraser can be a little conservative at times but is usually right on the money and knows how to call a game within the flow

[TwistofFate]

Safety play... /end

 

The ground that our safeties can cover and the understanding of what they need to do, allows us to disguise the majority of our coverages where a quarterback must decipher what we're actually doing post-snap.

 

I've watched Bill Belichick go into deep detail of how difficult it is to attack our defense and it all revolves around our safeties. I know Belichick is in love with Micah Hyde.

 

It's no surprise the safety they took in their draft from a small school was heavily scouted by Buffalo and rumored to be our pick if he was on the board.  Belichick knows great defenses revolve around great safeties that's why he's always had them.

 

[Mr. WEO]

"palm coverage"?

[Happy]

13 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

Frasier is a huge part of what we do no doubt

 

He started a little slow but his playcalling is very very good and he knows situational football and what McDermott wants out of his defense. I think he needed that wake up call 2 years ago

 

Though I doubt he's the one that implemented palms coverage or the Dual a gap looks. He is more of a teacher and developer than white board play designer

 

Ok, kind of what I suspected.  Frazier buys into what McD is doing and is coming up to speed on it, which probably means the defense isn't yet as good as it can be.  I do think that Frazier is reluctant to blitz and stunt, where McD would do more of this as evidenced by the Charger game in 2017 where McD took over the defensive play calling.  I get that this defense is more secondary-centric, though an active front that puts pressure on the opposing QB will go a long way to helping the secondary.

[GoBills808]

1 minute ago, TwistofFate said:

Safety play... /end

 

The ground that our safeties can cover and the understanding of what they need to do, allows us to disguise the majority of our coverages where a quarterback must decipher what we're actually doing post-snap.

 

I've watched Bill Belichick go into deep detail of how difficult it is to attack our defense and it all revolves around our safeties. I know Belichick is in love with Micah Hyde.

 

It's no surprise the safety they took in their draft from a small school was heavily scouted by Buffalo and rumored to be our pick if he was on the board.  Belichick knows great defenses revolve around great safeties that's why he's always had them.

 

That may be true for Belichick but McDermott can do w/out great safeties, he just happens to have them now

 

He designed top NFL defenses w JAGS in Carolina, but he had Norman and Kuechly/Davis

 

McDermott knows defense like few do

[ColoradoBills]

7 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

I expect to see a lot more hurry up against the defense this season

 

The only time they can get exposed is when they can't see/communicate checks at LOS because the offense is already moving into position

 

Wouldn't teams feint or try to confuse the Corner into committing the wrong way?

If they do try to do that is it because of the speed and closing ability of White to correct himself that negates the tactic?

 

Whatever the answer I just want to thank you guys for a great thread.  This is the stuff that got me coming to these boards originally!

Well done and I wish you guys would do more of this.

[GoBills808]

3 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

"palm coverage"?

Palms

 

basically quarters

Just now, ColoradoBills said:

 

Wouldn't teams feint or try to confuse the Corner into committing the wrong way?

If they do try to do that is it because of the speed and closing ability of White to correct himself that negates the tactic?

 

Whatever the answer I just want to thank you guys for a great thread.  This is the stuff that got me coming to these boards originally!

Well done and I wish you guys would do more of this.

It has a lot to do with the look the offense comes out in dictating the coverage, and how that can get mistimed or miscommunicated when presnap gets compressed

 

For example if they bring Poyer down he knows his read is vertical and the DB takes outside flat, but if the ball is snapped while he's still moving toward LOS he can be unbalanced and either gets beat vertical or isn't in position to cover double move for DB on the switch

[Mr. WEO]

3 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

Palms

 

basically quarters

 psalms?

[Buffalo716]

3 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

Palms

 

basically quarters

Palms coverage is a name given to a modified quarters coverage which can turn into man coverage depending on the offenseive looks

 

 

McDermott really favored this style of coverage last year

 

9 minutes ago, Happy said:

 

Ok, kind of what I suspected.  Frazier buys into what McD is doing and is coming up to speed on it, which probably means the defense isn't yet as good as it can be.  I do think that Frazier is reluctant to blitz and stunt, where McD would do more of this as evidenced by the Charger game in 2017 where McD took over the defensive play calling.  I get that this defense is more secondary-centric, though an active front that puts pressure on the opposing QB will go a long way to helping the secondary.

McDermott comes from the football school of timing is everything. He's not opposed to overload blitzing and stunting defensive lineman

 

But you're also not going to see a lot of that on first and second Downs . On run downs he's focused about Gap integrity and maintaining it. Stunting d-lineman causes the opposite of that

 

So he's a lot more situational with regards to that kind of stuff

[Buffalo716]

13 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

Palms

 

basically quarters

It has a lot to do with the look the offense comes out in dictating the coverage, and how that can get mistimed or miscommunicated when presnap gets compressed

 

For example if they bring Poyer down he knows his read is vertical and the DB takes outside flat, but if the ball is snapped while he's still moving toward LOS he can be unbalanced and either gets beat vertical or isn't in position to cover double move for DB on the switch

Those are all good questions and as a former corner and defensive backs coach I can tell you that's why you need smart football players

 

Leodis mckelvin , great cover corner, not a fit for a palms system

 

Ideally in zone coverage your first steps are always backwards. In quarters you're trying to get depth.. so tre is naturally playing his quarters and getting depth while peaking on the slot corner to see if he runs an out breaking route.

 

And you're right a great play call can confuse palms coverage.. but football is a chess match and they need to have that perfect call at the right time

 

Sorry gobills meant to quote Colorado

 

@ColoradoBills

Edited May 10, 2020 by Buffalo716

[Happy]

Great thread @Buffalo716 as it explains McDermott's defense and his tendencies that most of us don't get to see.  I was curious as to the Frazier and McDermott relationship, though I think I see how they work together.  I suspect that Frazier might be the perfect DC for McD since he knows situational football and buys into the plan, yet doesn't have a set preference like a Jim Schwartz or Rex (for example) would.

[GoBills808]

1 minute ago, Buffalo716 said:

Those are all good questions and as a former corner and defensive backs coach I can tell you that's why you need smart football players

 

Leodis mckelvin , great cover corner, not a fit for a palms system

 

Ideally in zone coverage your first steps are always backwards. In quarters you're trying to get depth.. so tre is naturally playing his quarters and getting depth while peaking on the slot corner to see if he runs an out breaking route.

 

And you're right a great play call can confuse palms coverage.. but football is a chess match and they need to have that perfect call at the right time

I was going to post a clip of the GIants game 3rd and 9 in the late second quarter as example...we are in nickel and bring Hyde down to LOS and Manning recognizes it and calls for snap (vet move), you see Hyde having to bail backwards because wideout gets behind White who played man until the sticks and then sinks into zone

 

Hyde breaks up the pass with a great hit and sometimes it just comes down to who has the more talented players, and the defensive side there's no doubt we have a ton...you add the scheme to it and they are always hard to beat

[ColoradoBills]

10 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

Those are all good questions and as a former corner and defensive backs coach I can tell you that's why you need smart football players

 

Leodis mckelvin , great cover corner, not a fit for a palms system

 

Ideally in zone coverage your first steps are always backwards. In quarters you're trying to get depth.. so tre is naturally playing his quarters and getting depth while peaking on the slot corner to see if he runs an out breaking route.

 

And you're right a great play call can confuse palms coverage.. but football is a chess match and they need to have that perfect call at the right time

 

Sorry gobills meant to quote Colorado

 

@ColoradoBills

 

Thanks, and I think I understand better on a lot of plays (especially on replay) where I say to myself "Tre was playing man on that play", which had me

thinking the Bills were continually mixing man vs. zone more than they probably were.

 

Cool stuff and I will pass this knowledge on to my brothers and nephews who are as confused as me about this.

[Buffalo716]

3 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

Thanks, and I think I understand better on a lot of plays (especially on replay) where I say to myself "Tre was playing man on that play", which had me

thinking the Bills were continually mixing man vs. zone more than they probably were.

 

Cool stuff and I will pass this knowledge on to my brothers and nephews who are as confused as me about this.

Yes Sean is no stranger to combo coverages. All things he learned from Jim Johnson

 

It's also not strange to see the Bills play a cover 6 which is a zone combination coverage of cover 4 and 2

[Florida Bills Fanatic]

2 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

Football players in the NFL are the best of the best as are the coaches.

 

Offenses today are more complex and evolved than ever before. Offenses attack defenses with speed , vertically and horizontally to stretch defenses

 

3-4 WR sets to attack weaknesses at CB or LBr

 

There are lots of advantages to the offense

 

Sean has combatted this by creating a scheme based on gap integrity , complex coverages in the secondary and timely blitzes

 

I have 2 diagrams that show how Sean will confuse offenses pre and post snap and get QBs to hold the ball longer or panic and get rid of it too soon

 

 

Nice thread but I always thought it was more about the tequila McD had put in the visiting team's Gatorade.

[Buffalo716]

Just now, Florida Bills Fanatic said:

Nice thread but I always thought it was more about the tequila McD had put in the visiting team's Gatorade.

The threat is the diversion...  that's the real secret ?

[Buffalo716]

 

This is not my video but I was looking for certain looks to explain some other McDermott tendencies 

 

NOTICE- McDermott not afraid to run 8 man box. Basically 9 on 1 play...  Bodies everywhere on run downs

 

This is where Poyer excells as a run stuffer / Blitzer.. in the box off the edge. He is great at timing the snap and blowing up the backfield 

 

Where he struggles is in downhill run support. This year Sean had him all over the LoS early on downs to wreak havoc and play to his strengths

 

I wish the video showed Sean's overload package and how he uses Poyer/ Taron so effectively because he only brings it out 2-5 times a game but boy is it effective

 

 

[Buffalo716]

5 hours ago, Happy said:

 

Ok, kind of what I suspected.  Frazier buys into what McD is doing and is coming up to speed on it, which probably means the defense isn't yet as good as it can be.  I do think that Frazier is reluctant to blitz and stunt, where McD would do more of this as evidenced by the Charger game in 2017 where McD took over the defensive play calling.  I get that this defense is more secondary-centric, though an active front that puts pressure on the opposing QB will go a long way to helping the secondary.

And yes that's exactly how I would put it. McDermott has been building his defensive philosophy for 20 plus years

 

Frazier took his own knowledge and what Sean likes to do and is getting up to speed on Sean's full philosophy. It's a lot more than one year job as I just said McDermott's been building it for 20 years

 

Frazier no doubt has a better grasp on it today than he did 2 years ago and it's evident by his playcalling which is way more advanced

 

I would expect Frazier to be getting another HC chance soon because he is gonna tear it up

[DaaBills]

This might be the best thread I've ever seen. Thank you!

[billsfan_34]

8 hours ago, Happy said:

 

Carolina.  The OP mentions this, but states the defense is still the same as what McD runs at Buffalo today.

Good catch!

[Buffalo716]

19 minutes ago, DaaBills said:

This might be the best thread I've ever seen. Thank you!

That's what I'm here for