The Big Gamble: Hydroxychloroquine

[Niagara]

Trump was right

Wacko doctor writes antihydroxycloroquin study then

"that study and another were retracted in June by the renowned journals that had published them, weeks after researchers around the world suggested the data was dubious"

https://www.yahoo.com/news/doctor-behind-disputed-covid-data-185312270.html

Edited July 28, 2020 by Niagara

[HamSandwhich]

1 hour ago, Niagara said:

Trump was right

Wacko doctor writes antihydroxycloroquin study then

"that study and another were retracted in June by the renowned journals that had published them, weeks after researchers around the world suggested the data was dubious"

https://www.yahoo.com/news/doctor-behind-disputed-covid-data-185312270.html

I was about to come post this. This is from the very left leaning New York Times. It’s the  bastardizaroon and politicization of science for the agenda of getting Trump out of office. I’m sure it’s all part of Dr. Desai’s woke agenda gone bad. 

[Niagara]

9 minutes ago, HamSandwhich said:

I was about to come post this. This is from the very left leaning New York Times. It’s the  bastardizaroon and politicization of science for the agenda of getting Trump out of office. I’m sure it’s all part of Dr. Desai’s woke agenda gone bad. 

Dr. Desai will pay with his career. NYT has a paywall, so I linked Yahoo's copy, but yes this is criminal.

"More recently, in February, Desai left his job at a community hospital in a Chicago suburb where he had worked as a surgeon since 2016. He was named as a defendant in three medical malpractice lawsuits last year, court records show."

Edited July 28, 2020 by Niagara

[HamSandwhich]

1 hour ago, Niagara said:

Dr. Desai will pay with his career. NYT has a paywall, so I linked Yahoo's copy, but yes this is criminal.

"More recently, in February, Desai left his job at a community hospital in a Chicago suburb where he had worked as a surgeon since 2016. He was named as a defendant in three medical malpractice lawsuits last year, court records show."

That’s where I read it too, just wanted to point out that its from the NYT. 

[Reality Check]

 

[Reality Check]

 

 

 

[Doc]

Yeah but Trump didn't tout them.  Once he did, HCQ became the most dangerous drug ever prescribed.  

[Koko78]

18 hours ago, Doc said:

 

So they used 2400 mg (toxic dose) of HCQ and (again) no zinc?  Great study, Eric.  The Lancet and WHO would be proud.  Follow the money!

 

Seems even worse than that, if this guy is accurate:

 

 

[Doc]

48 minutes ago, Koko78 said:

 

Seems even worse than that, if this guy is accurate:

 

 

 

Hey, it sounds similar. 

 

OMG, that's pathetic.  I weep for the future of medicine.

[Unforgiven]

18 hours ago, I am the egg man said:

You're trying, with no merit, to associate me with another for the sake of validating your behavior.

 

.....your creepiness knows no boundaries.

 

Hope you're registered.

couple that with his trump / nazi fantasies...

He should be investigated, who knows what might be chained up in his cellar.

[Wacka]

16 minutes ago, Unforgiven said:

couple that with his trump / nazi fantasies...

He should be investigated, who knows what might be chained up in his cellar.

It puts the lotion in the basket 

Put the f***ing lotion in the basket! 

It put the lotion on its skin or else it gets the hose again

[bilzfancy]

12 minutes ago, Wacka said:

It puts the lotion in the basket 

Put the f***ing lotion in the basket! 

It put the lotion on its skin or else it gets the hose again

One of the all-time great movies

[dubs]

The thing that's the most disturbing to me about this "controversy" isn't necessarily whether or not hydroxychloroquine + zinc is an effective treatment or not, but rather how rabid the media and largely the left (but not all) become at even the mere suggestion of it's effectiveness.  That's just an extremely suspicious reaction.

 

A proper, balanced reaction would be something like this: "There has been some interesting anecdotal evidence by a small group of practicing physicians that hydroxychloroquine + zinc may have some therapeutic benefits in treating Covid-19.  We would not recommend its use until a larger trial has been done and as always, we do not recommend any treatment without consulting and under the supervision of your physician."

 

Instead, you get total hysteria, censorship, and character assassination.  Doesn't that strike people as extremely suspicious? 

 

I mean, I am not advocating for HDC + Z or saying it's completely bogus either, just that the reaction against it is so whacked-out that it makes me more suspicious than if no one said anything at all.

 

I will say this though: Imagine what would happen if it was an effective treatment.  In an instant the billions and billions set to be made on a vaccine go up in smoke and the control that governors have been exerting over the citizens goes away.  Instantly.  Boom, gone.

[Tiberius]

Washington (CNN)Dr. Anthony Fauci said Wednesday that data shows hydroxychloroquine is not an effective treatment for the coronavirus, disputing use of the drug to fight the deadly virus even as President Donald Trump touts it as a potential cure and says he has taken it himself.

"The scientific data is really quite evident now about the lack of efficacy for it," Fauci, a key medical adviser on the White House coronavirus task force, told CNN's Jim Sciutto on "Newsroom" of the drug, adding that there's likelihood of "adverse events with regard to cardiovascular."

Fauci, the nation's top infectious disease expert, is the first Trump administration official to say the drug is not effective in treating the virus based on scientific data. Medical experts and the US Food and Drug Administration, though, have questioned its efficacy and warned of potentially harmful side effects as the President has promoted the treatment.

[dubs]

15 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

Washington (CNN)Dr. Anthony Fauci said Wednesday that data shows hydroxychloroquine is not an effective treatment for the coronavirus, disputing use of the drug to fight the deadly virus even as President Donald Trump touts it as a potential cure and says he has taken it himself.

"The scientific data is really quite evident now about the lack of efficacy for it," Fauci, a key medical adviser on the White House coronavirus task force, told CNN's Jim Sciutto on "Newsroom" of the drug, adding that there's likelihood of "adverse events with regard to cardiovascular."

Fauci, the nation's top infectious disease expert, is the first Trump administration official to say the drug is not effective in treating the virus based on scientific data. Medical experts and the US Food and Drug Administration, though, have questioned its efficacy and warned of potentially harmful side effects as the President has promoted the treatment.

 

Like I said, I don't know the answer.  But I do think it's bizarre that it's being dismissed so aggressively.

 

I did go to the CNN article that you posted (thanks for the link) and then clicked through study that Fauci referenced.  The title of the study is now:

 

"RETRACTED: Hydroxychloroquine...."  There is also a big red RETRACTED on every page.  Not sure if that's bad.

 

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)31180-6/fulltext

 

 

Edited July 30, 2020 by dubs

[123719bwiqrb]

15 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

Washington (CNN)Dr. Anthony Fauci said Wednesday that data shows hydroxychloroquine is not an effective treatment for the coronavirus, disputing use of the drug to fight the deadly virus even as President Donald Trump touts it as a potential cure and says he has taken it himself.

"The scientific data is really quite evident now about the lack of efficacy for it," Fauci, a key medical adviser on the White House coronavirus task force, told CNN's Jim Sciutto on "Newsroom" of the drug, adding that there's likelihood of "adverse events with regard to cardiovascular."

Fauci, the nation's top infectious disease expert, is the first Trump administration official to say the drug is not effective in treating the virus based on scientific data. Medical experts and the US Food and Drug Administration, though, have questioned its efficacy and warned of potentially harmful side effects as the President has promoted the treatment.

 

That's from May, which as we all know, in pandemic times that is like quoting medical news from 1907.

[Gene Frenkle]

16 minutes ago, dubs said:

The thing that's the most disturbing to me about this "controversy" isn't necessarily whether or not hydroxychloroquine + zinc is an effective treatment or not, but rather how rabid the media and largely the left (but not all) become at even the mere suggestion of it's effectiveness.  That's just an extremely suspicious reaction.

 

A proper, balanced reaction would be something like this: "There has been some interesting anecdotal evidence by a small group of practicing physicians that hydroxychloroquine + zinc may have some therapeutic benefits in treating Covid-19.  We would not recommend its use until a larger trial has been done and as always, we do not recommend any treatment without consulting and under the supervision of your physician."

 

Instead, you get total hysteria, censorship, and character assassination.  Doesn't that strike people as extremely suspicious? 

 

I mean, I am not advocating for HDC + Z or saying it's completely bogus either, just that the reaction against it is so whacked-out that it makes me more suspicious than if no one said anything at all.

 

I will say this though: Imagine what would happen if it was an effective treatment.  In an instant the billions and billions set to be made on a vaccine go up in smoke and the control that governors have been exerting over the citizens goes away.  Instantly.  Boom, gone.

 

The proper, balanced thing would have been for the president to not to hitch his controversial wagon to any particular drug in the first place because it was nothing but a politically-motivated gamble when he did so.  That single action caused all of this controversy.  He had no actual scientific reason to do so, only anecdotal evidence that made sense to him.  It was totally irresponsible, anti-intellectual and extremely ignorant, which is likely why his base latched onto it like rabid dogs.

[dubs]

1 minute ago, Gene Frenkle said:

 

The proper, balanced thing would have been for the president to not to hitch his controversial wagon to any particular drug in the first place because it was nothing but a politically-motivated gamble when he did so.  That single action caused all of this controversy.  He had no actual scientific reason to do so, only anecdotal evidence that made sense to him.  It was totally irresponsible, anti-intellectual and extremely ignorant, which is likely why his base latched onto it like rabid dogs.

 

Can you show me where he said that?  I mean, that might be how the media portrayed it, but everything I saw him say was simply saying that it showed promise. 

[123719bwiqrb]

Just now, Gene Frenkle said:

 

The proper, balanced thing would have been for the president to not to hitch his controversial wagon to any particular drug in the first place because it was nothing but a politically-motivated gamble when he did so.  That single action caused all of this controversy.  He had no actual scientific reason to do so, only anecdotal evidence that made sense to him.  It was totally irresponsible, anti-intellectual and extremely ignorant, which is likely why his base latched onto it like rabid dogs.

True.

 

But do you have the balls to admit that the cocktail works, if proven effective?  Or because Trump hitched his wagon to something, you have to reject it in perpetuity now?

[Tiberius]

4 minutes ago, 123719bwiqrb said:

 

That's from May, which as we all know, in pandemic times that is like quoting medical news from 1907.

Dr. Fauci says all the ‘valid’ scientific data shows hydroxychloroquine isn’t effective in treating coronavirus

PUBLISHED WED, JUL 29 202012:31 PM EDTUPDATED WED, JUL 29 20207:50 PM EDT

[Doc]

27 minutes ago, dubs said:

The thing that's the most disturbing to me about this "controversy" isn't necessarily whether or not hydroxychloroquine + zinc is an effective treatment or not, but rather how rabid the media and largely the left (but not all) become at even the mere suggestion of it's effectiveness.  That's just an extremely suspicious reaction.

 

A proper, balanced reaction would be something like this: "There has been some interesting anecdotal evidence by a small group of practicing physicians that hydroxychloroquine + zinc may have some therapeutic benefits in treating Covid-19.  We would not recommend its use until a larger trial has been done and as always, we do not recommend any treatment without consulting and under the supervision of your physician."

 

Instead, you get total hysteria, censorship, and character assassination.  Doesn't that strike people as extremely suspicious? 

 

I mean, I am not advocating for HDC + Z or saying it's completely bogus either, just that the reaction against it is so whacked-out that it makes me more suspicious than if no one said anything at all.

 

I will say this though: Imagine what would happen if it was an effective treatment.  In an instant the billions and billions set to be made on a vaccine go up in smoke and the control that governors have been exerting over the citizens goes away.  Instantly.  Boom, gone.

 

Like I've been saying, they'd rather people die than Trump be proven right.  It's pathetic and doctors buying into this is even worse.

 

6 minutes ago, 123719bwiqrb said:

That's from May, which as we all know, in pandemic times that is like quoting medical news from 1907.

 

He's also using debunked "studies."  The Lancet proved what a (bigger) joke they are (remember that vaccines cause autism "study"?) and the WHO quickly followed suit revealing themselves.

[WEATHER DOT COM]

1 minute ago, Doc said:

 

 

 

Were you one of the doctors in the background of the video with the demon sperm lady?

[Gene Frenkle]

17 minutes ago, 123719bwiqrb said:

True.

 

But do you have the balls to admit that the cocktail works, if proven effective?  Or because Trump hitched his wagon to something, you have to reject it in perpetuity now?

 

If it works, it works.  I remain unconvinced.

19 minutes ago, dubs said:

 

Can you show me where he said that?  I mean, that might be how the media portrayed it, but everything I saw him say was simply saying that it showed promise. 

 

He repeatedly touted it and doubled down several times.  I don't think this is in dispute.

[Melon]

Hydroxychloroquine martinis have gotten me through the last 3 months

[Gene Frenkle]

1 minute ago, Melania Trump said:

Hydroxychloroquine martinis have gotten me through the last 3 months

 

You've successfully ruined the only appealing thing about the Trump administration with that avatar.  Thanks a lot.

[123719bwiqrb]

1 minute ago, Gene Frenkle said:

 

If it works, it works.  I remain unconvinced.

 

It will be tough to prove.  But similarly, a lot of anecdotal bodybuilding diet/training info becomes accepted by the mainstream 5-10 years after it's been on the street. 

 

I expect this will remain a big maybe for a long time, if not forever.  We'll only know when a true double blind study using the concoction touted can be done, and what legal team is going to authorize that in this environment?

[dubs]

15 minutes ago, Gene Frenkle said:

 

If it works, it works.  I remain unconvinced.

 

He repeatedly touted it and doubled down several times.  I don't think this is in dispute.

touted as what?  
 

he’s touted it as a promising therapeutic. 
 

that’s not in dispute, correct. 

[Gene Frenkle]

2 minutes ago, dubs said:

touted as what?  
 

he’s touted it as a promising therapeutic. 
 

that’s not in dispute, correct. 

 

This is extremely disingenuous.

12 minutes ago, 123719bwiqrb said:

 

It will be tough to prove.  But similarly, a lot of anecdotal bodybuilding diet/training info becomes accepted by the mainstream 5-10 years after it's been on the street. 

 

I expect this will remain a big maybe for a long time, if not forever.  We'll only know when a true double blind study using the concoction touted can be done, and what legal team is going to authorize that in this environment?

 

You could say the same thing about aspirin or really any drug with regard to COVID.  A claim is just a claim.  The proof falls on the claimant in any case.

[Gary M]

34 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

Dr. Fauci says all the ‘valid’ scientific data shows hydroxychloroquine isn’t effective in treating coronavirus

PUBLISHED WED, JUL 29 202012:31 PM EDTUPDATED WED, JUL 29 20207:50 PM EDT

 

Correct, it has to be combined with Zinc.

 

https://www.covid19treatmentguidelines.nih.gov/adjunctive-therapy/zinc/

 

https://www.henryford.com/news/2020/07/hydro-treatment-study

[Tiberius]

2 minutes ago, Gary M said:

 

Correct, it has to be combined with Zinc.

 

https://www.covid19treatmentguidelines.nih.gov/adjunctive-therapy/zinc/

 

 

Quote

Given the nature of the study design and its limitations, the authors do not recommend using this study to guide clinical practice.

 

[dubs]

24 minutes ago, Gene Frenkle said:

 

This is extremely disingenuous.

 

 

 

How? It's what he said time and time again.  If you can point me to a statement he made saying that it was a proven cure, I'm all ears.

 

Regardless, Trump's statements on it are a Red Herring.  The whole point I am trying to make is how bizarre the hysterical reaction is against any mention of it being beneficial.  The one study that was linked here was a RETRACTED study.

 

If it's so widely known to be a bogus treatment, it should be very easy to point to the evidence. 

Edited July 30, 2020 by dubs

[Gary M]

28 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

 

 

But it shows that HCQ is effective, So Fauci must not have read the Henry Ford study.

 

I can forgive him for that, he was busy trying to invest in gates vaccine.

 

Edited July 30, 2020 by Gary M

[Gene Frenkle]

13 minutes ago, dubs said:

 

How? It's what he said time and time again.  If you can point me to a statement he made saying that it was a proven cure, I'm all ears.

 

Regardless, Trump's statements on it are a Red Herring.  The whole point I am trying to make is how bizarre the hysterical reaction is against any mention of it being beneficial.  The one study that was linked here was a RETRACTED study.

 

If it's so widely known to be a bogus treatment, it should be very easy to point to the evidence. 

 

He literally just retweeted the demon ***** video the other day.

 

This covers up to May 22nd or so I think. If you want more, google is your friend.

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/andrewsolender/2020/05/22/all-the-times-trump-promoted-hydroxychloroquine/

[dubs]

31 minutes ago, Gene Frenkle said:

 

He literally just retweeted the demon ***** video the other day.

 

This covers up to May 22nd or so I think. If you want more, google is your friend.

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/andrewsolender/2020/05/22/all-the-times-trump-promoted-hydroxychloroquine/

 

Does a retweet mean a complete endorsement?  I view it as getting it out for people to see, but I'm not a really big Twitter or social media person.

 

As for the quotes, every single one was a couched statement about promise and hope.  I don't see what's wrong with that.  Honestly, maybe his style is off and he doesn't speak as clearly as others, but I think most people understand his style at this point.

 

To suggest he's out promoting this as a cure is just wrong though.  He's not nor has he ever done that.

 

 

[Cinga]

2 hours ago, wAcKy ZeBrA said:

 

Were you one of the doctors in the background of the video with the demon sperm lady?

 

1 hour ago, Gene Frenkle said:

 

He literally just retweeted the demon ***** video the other day.

 

This covers up to May 22nd or so I think. If you want more, google is your friend.

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/andrewsolender/2020/05/22/all-the-times-trump-promoted-hydroxychloroquine/

 

I see the RACISTS are out today... 

[Gary M]

1 hour ago, dubs said:

 

Does a retweet mean a complete endorsement?  I view it as getting it out for people to see, but I'm not a really big Twitter or social media person.

 

As for the quotes, every single one was a couched statement about promise and hope.  I don't see what's wrong with that.  Honestly, maybe his style is off and he doesn't speak as clearly as others, but I think most people understand his style at this point.

 

To suggest he's out promoting this as a cure is just wrong though.  He's not nor has he ever done that.

 

 

You have to remember they have high expectations.

 

When Obama spoke the sea level stopped rising.

[dubs]

5 hours ago, dubs said:

 

Like I said, I don't know the answer.  But I do think it's bizarre that it's being dismissed so aggressively.

 

I did go to the CNN article that you posted (thanks for the link) and then clicked through study that Fauci referenced.  The title of the study is now:

 

"RETRACTED: Hydroxychloroquine...."  There is also a big red RETRACTED on every page.  Not sure if that's bad.

 

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)31180-6/fulltext

 

 

 

Just was wondering why we didn't get any clarity on why the article cited which quotes Fauci references a study which appears to be entirely RETRACTED?  Surprised I didn't see any explanation on that.

[realtruelove]

Smart people will always find solutions.  Look at the ratio of cases to deaths.  Dropping like a rock.  You can't hide smart or polish a turd.

[Cinga]

Not sure this has been shared here yet.....

 

Yale epidemiologist: Dr. Fauci running 'misinformation campaign' against hydroxychloroquine

 

Quote

 

Risch, however, is sharply criticizing Fauci's approach to evaluating the drug's effectiveness, arguing that repeated trials and tests have shown that it is markedly effective at treating COVID-19 so long as it is administered properly. 

Risch, a professor of epidemiology and the director of Yale's Molecular Cancer Epidemiology Laboratory, has been pushing for the drug's use in the fight against the coronavirus for months. Last week in a Newsweek op-ed he called HCQ "the key to defeating COVID-19," claiming its use — particularly when administered with one of two antibiotics and the nutritional supplement zinc — has been "shown to be highly effective" in treating high-risk coronavirus patients. 

On Tuesday, Risch went further, charging in an interview with Just the News that Fauci is perpetrating a "misinformation campaign" in his opposition to the drug. 

Fauci "has been maintaining a studious position that only randomized controlled trial evidence has any value," Risch said, "and everything else he calls anecdotal.

 

"

[realtruelove]

Fauci lost his fastball 2 months ago.