Will NFL Cancel the International Games this Season?

[Billl]

3 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

Respectfully, that was the excuse/argument. The whole point was more money. I still think the uneven travel requirements are unreasonable. I don’t think it’s good for “the game”, it’s only good for more revenue. 

If it weren’t for the neutral site games, the discussion would have been 18 games.

[GunnerBill]

2 minutes ago, Doc Brown said:

We'll know a lot more by summer but my guess is yes at this point.  Why riski it?  I'm hoping we'll have a much better understanding and control of the virus by then so it doesn't delay training camp.  The warmer weather will hopefully help.

 

If there is any risk they will cancel the games for this year. And rightly so. 

[Augie]

2 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

You don't think expanding the fan base of the sport is good for the game? I totally, utterly and completely disagree.

 

The GAME? Absolutely not. The INDUSTRY? Absolutely. I’m in it for the game, but the billionaires will do as they please. 

[GunnerBill]

Just now, Augie said:

 

The GAME? Absolutely not. The INDUSTRY? Absolutely. I’m in it for the game, but the billionaires will do as they please. 

 

No. The game. The game of American Football. You think the sport having an expanded fan base outside North America is a bad thing? 

[Augie]

2 minutes ago, Billl said:

If it weren’t for the neutral site games, the discussion would have been 18 games.

 

I’d have gone there first, but since the players would fight it more, and the last time I checked I don’t own an NFL franchise, I guess I’m SOL! ?‍♂️

Just now, GunnerBill said:

 

No. The game. The game of American Football. You think the sport having an expanded fan base outside North America is a bad thing? 

 

I think it’s good for the owners, and we know what motivates them. I don’t see your soccer or rugby teams scheduling regular trips to the states to collect my money and get me interested. It’s a disruption to the rhythm of the game. Just my opinion. One thing I know is, nothing I think, say or do it going to change anything, so I’ll let it rest.  

 

The owners (who I generally support since I don’t hate rich guys just because they are rich) are going to do what they think is best for their pockets. 

[mushypeaches]

46 minutes ago, Hardhatharry said:

I don't think the NFL wants to play more games in Jacksonville.

 

Neither does Jacksonville

[GunnerBill]

5 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

I’d have gone there first, but since the players would fight it more, and the last time I checked I don’t own an NFL franchise, I guess I’m SOL! ?‍♂️

 

I think it’s good for the owners, and we know what motivates them. I don’t see your soccer or rugby teams scheduling regular trips to the states to collect my money and get me interested. It’s a disruption to the rhythm of the game. Just my opinion. One thing I know is, nothing I think, say or do it going to change anything, so I’ll let it rest.  

 

The owners (who I generally support since I don’t hate rich guys just because they are rich) are going to do what they think is best for their pockets. 

 

Soccer teams come to the States ever darn year for pre-season games, despite the fact they are disruptive and, like the NFL in Europe, the numbers show interest in the game over there continues to grow. The Premier League wanted regular season season games overseas. And if we had a franchise model it would have happened already. The problem is in the Premier League there is no revenue sharing and the smaller, poorer, teams vetoed it because they knew it would just widen the gap between rich and poor yet further. 

 

But soccer is the most popular game in the world because of its global reach. It is the ultimate proof that expanding the fan base is to the betterment of the sport. 

[SirAndrew]

If there’s a season, I’m sure there will be International games. Heck, Goodell will probably want a game in Wuhan as a sign of goodwill. 

[Augie]

10 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Soccer teams come to the States ever darn year for pre-season games, despite the fact they are disruptive and, like the NFL in Europe, the numbers show interest in the game over there continues to grow. The Premier League wanted regular season season games overseas. And if we had a franchise model it would have happened already. The problem is in the Premier League there is no revenue sharing and the smaller, poorer, teams vetoed it because they knew it would just widen the gap between rich and poor yet further. 

 

But soccer is the most popular game in the world because of its global reach. It is the ultimate proof that expanding the fan base is to the betterment of the sport. 

 

A) Pre-season games do not count.

 

B) So it’s about money? Shocking! 

 

Look, we don’t have to agree on this. I’m not boycotting the NFL or anything over it. I just don’t happen to be a fan of messing with what we’ve always enjoyed so they can make more money. I don’t resent their making more money one little bit. I’m not a fan of disrupting the game any more than they already have. I don’t get to vote except with my feet, and I’m not THAT upset over it.  So I’ll carry on just fine. 

 

The NBA doesn’t play regular season games in China, but they sure want to expand their global presence. It’s the practical aspect I don’t like, not expanding interest. 

 

But again, I’m still here.  

 

 

EDIT: I didn’t like the Toronto series either, but I get what they were thinking. This is kind of as bigger version of that. 

Edited March 30, 2020 by Augie

[Buddo]

I think you need to worry about there being a season first, before stressing out over the International games.

 

TBH, I'm not sure how soon travel restrictions are likely to be lifted, regardless. This thing is global, and it's going to be very difficult to allow anything resembling free movement around the world, for some considerable time yet.

 

Irrespective of how much you believe the Chinese figures, one thing has become apparent, in that many of their additional cases now, are from people bringing it into the country.

 

Countries around the world will have taken note of this, and will be organizing their strategies accordingly, which will mean much more restrictive requirements for anyone who is travelling, whether it's in their movements once they get somewhere, or their medical clearances, before they are even allowed in.

[GunnerBill]

3 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

A) Pre-season games do not count.

 

B) So it’s about money? Shocking! 

 

Look, we don’t have to agree on this. I’m not boycotting the NFL or anything over it. I just don’t happen to be a fan of messing with what we’ve always enjoyed so they can make more money. I don’t resent their making more money one little bit. I’m not a fan of disrupting the game any more than they already have. I don’t get to vote except with my feet, and I’m not THAT upset over it.  So I’ll carry on just fine. 

 

The NBA doesn’t play regular season games in China, but they sure want to expand their global presence. It’s the practical aspect I don’t like, not expanding interest. 

 

But again, I’m still here.  

 

 

EDIT: I didn’t like the Toronto series either, but I get what they were thinking. This is kind of as bigger version of that. 

 

The NBA has played regular season games in London too. Sports have to grow their base. The idea that the American sports are going to survive and flourish for another 100 years as America only games is for the birds. The leadership of the NFL, NBA and MLB get that. And well they might. 

[Doc Brown]

28 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

If there is any risk they will cancel the games for this year. And rightly so. 

I'm guessing behind the scenes they're exploring scenarios where they play without fans with stringent player testing.  Too much money on the line to cancel the season.

[GunnerBill]

Just now, Doc Brown said:

I'm guessing behind the scenes they're exploring scenarios where they play without fans with stringent player testing.  Too much money on the line to cancel the season.

 

I meant the London games rather than the season to be clear. 

[Augie]

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

 

The NBA has played regular season games in London too. Sports have to grow their base. The idea that the American sports are going to survive and flourish for another 100 years as America only games is for the birds. The leadership of the NFL, NBA and MLB get that. And well they might. 

 

That’s fine. Is it OK if I personally don’t like it? I understand WHY they do it, I still don’t love it. Maybe it’s my resentment over the sucky Toronto series. As someone I know who’s been to a lot of therapy likes to say “FEEL your feelings!” 

 

The NBA isn’t building this into every teams regular season schedule, but they probably will before too long. That’s fine with me, because I haven’t watched them in years. 

 

You feel free to like the expansion, and I’ll probably continue not to love it. That’s life! 

 

Having said all that, if and when the Bills are back in London, I would certainly see if I could make it to the game. Always looking for a good excuse! 

[ndirish1978]

7 hours ago, Smitty75 said:

So because it’s an American sport, us European fans can’t enjoy 1 game in a season...? ?

 

 

No, because it's an American league, the games should be played solely in-country. Would you be happy if the EPL sent your favorite team to play 16% of their games in the US and Mexico? Doubt it. Brits throw fits just because Americans buy EPL teams, if they took away games you guys would riot. If you want games you should be getting pre-season at best, just like Arsenal and Manchester do when they play these warm-up tourneys across the pond, not games that actually mean something. International games put the "home" team at an awful disadvantage and they are ridiculous in a sport where you only get 8 home games to begin with. 

Edited March 30, 2020 by ndirish1978

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, ndirish1978 said:

 

No, because it's an American league, the games should be played solely in-country. Would you be happy if the EPL sent your favorite team to play 16% of their games in the US and Mexico? Doubt it. Brits throw fits just because Americans buy EPL teams, if they took away games you guys would riot.

 

Well that is gonna happen too. And there will not be any riots. It is globalisation. Shouting "stop the world I want to get off" is not an option.  

[ndirish1978]

Just now, GunnerBill said:

 

Well that is gonna happen too. And there will not be any riots. It is globalisation. Shouting "stop the world I want to get off" is not an option.  

 

The Premiere League will NEVER play season games in the US. To think otherwise is ridiculous. They might create a Super Champions-League where the top x number of teams from each country in the world, not just Europe, play for a championship, but you will not see them farm out home league games.  

[Punching Bag]

5 minutes ago, ndirish1978 said:

 Brits throw fits just because Americans buy EPL teams, if they took away games you guys would riot.. 

 

Rioting is just something part of Soccer fandom like Ketchup and Mustard celebration is part of Bills fandom.

All of the Soccer fans do not have CTE even though they act like it, right?

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, ndirish1978 said:

 

The Premiere League will NEVER play season games in the US. To think otherwise is ridiculous. They might create a Super Champions-League where the top x number of teams from each country in the world, not just Europe, play for a championship, but you will not see them farm out home league games.  

 

They voted on it like 6 years ago. The League wants it to happen. They were going to do what the NFL has just voted to do - add an additional game - and play them in the US, the far east and Australia. The vote didn't pass because the smaller clubs vetoed it. All the big boys wanted it. It will happen. The next TV deal is gonna be stagnant over the last one which will be the first time in 20 odd years that revenues have plateaued. At that point they have two options - extend the availability of each game - the Sunday Ticket type idea where you can watch your team live each week regardless of where or when they kick off or revisit the 39th game. 

 

It will happen. The question is when. 

[machine gun kelly]

Augie and GB, back to you’re corners.  Just kidding guys as you know I like and respect both of you.  You both make good points.  I’m not crazy with European games or any other country, but if there is a 17th neutral site game and both sides agree maybe for a second bye or something so there is somewhat of a built in travel thing then no worries from me.  
 

Now this year, I feel from TBD European posters, but if the disease is still kore prevalent over there, or at all, why send teams to Europe as the only way they still play at all is without fans even if mostly gone, but just remnants, and that is a stretch.  I know this damn virus/protein is a pain in the ars for everyone, but if we don’t take drastic measures it’s not going away and I was laid off like many others.  It blows, but the sooner it goes away the better.

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, machine gun kelly said:

Augie and GB, back to you’re corners.  Just kidding guys as you know I like and respect both of you.  You both make good points.  I’m not crazy with European games or any other country, but if there is a 17th neutral site game and both sides agree maybe for a second bye or something so there is somewhat of a built in travel thing then no worries from me.  
 

Now this year, I feel from TBD European posters, but if the disease is still kore prevalent over there, or at all, why send teams to Europe as the only way they still play at all is without fans even if mostly gone, but just remnants, and that is a stretch.  I know this damn virus/protein is a pain in the ars for everyone, but if we don’t take drastic measures it’s not going away and I was laid off like many others.  It blows, but the sooner it goes away the better.

 

For sure. I think they should cancel the games for 2020. 

[Augie]

I’m far too lazy, but I’d be interested in what a poll of the entire board told us about how popular these international games are. I know the owners don’t care how we feel about it unless it hurts them in some significant way, but how do the loyal fans feel? 

 

The only positive thing to me is if I get a trip to London or Barcelona, etc out of it.   

 

If some eager beaver wants to start a poll, I’ll put in a good word for you and maybe you can get an awesome wing from Cafe @plenzmd1 in Hammers Lot or a beef on weck slider from @Seasons1992 some day. 

 

This is not a crusade or anything. It’s going to happen, I get it. I understand why. I’m still here, and I love my Bills. If given a vote I say no thank you. 

10 minutes ago, machine gun kelly said:

Augie and GB, back to you’re corners.  Just kidding guys as you know I like and respect both of you.  You both make good points.  I’m not crazy with European games or any other country, but if there is a 17th neutral site game and both sides agree maybe for a second bye or something so there is somewhat of a built in travel thing then no worries from me.  
 

Now this year, I feel from TBD European posters, but if the disease is still kore prevalent over there, or at all, why send teams to Europe as the only way they still play at all is without fans even if mostly gone, but just remnants, and that is a stretch.  I know this damn virus/protein is a pain in the ars for everyone, but if we don’t take drastic measures it’s not going away and I was laid off like many others.  It blows, but the sooner it goes away the better.

 

OUCH! I wanted to laugh, then like then be sad. Good luck to you and all others in your situation. Where we play football games is of little consequence these days! Everyone just be well! 

[Augie]

11 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

For sure. I think they should cancel the games for 2020. 

 

I’m wondering more and more if we will have ANY games this year (he types watching the Nightly News). As a Bills fan it’s cruel, but also of little consequence in the big picture. 

[Happy]

I hope the NFL cancels the international games for no other reason than they suck.

[GottaRun]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Soccer teams come to the States ever darn year for pre-season games, despite the fact they are disruptive and, like the NFL in Europe, the numbers show interest in the game over there continues to grow. The Premier League wanted regular season season games overseas. And if we had a franchise model it would have happened already. The problem is in the Premier League there is no revenue sharing and the smaller, poorer, teams vetoed it because they knew it would just widen the gap between rich and poor yet further. 

 

But soccer is the most popular game in the world because of its global reach. It is the ultimate proof that expanding the fan base is to the betterment of the sport. 

1 home game for us is 12.5% of our home games for the season.  Imagine the Premiere league taking 2-3 home fixtures away from any club in the Premiere league.  Most of the supporters would go mental.  

As you say, the Premiere league brand over there expanded on pre-season international exhibitions and meaningless mini tournaments, not by giving away regular season fixtures.  That and massive TV deals.  A lot harder to do that with the NFL.

 

Imagine the Manchester derby being held in New York City, there would be riots in the streets.  Why are we just supposed to accept one of our few home games being taken away? 

 

Edited March 31, 2020 by driddles

[GunnerBill]

29 minutes ago, driddles said:

1 home game for us is 12.5% of our home games for the season.  Imagine the Premiere league taking 2-3 home fixtures away from any club in the Premiere league.  Most of the supporters would go mental.  

As you say, the Premiere league brand over there expanded on pre-season international exhibitions and meaningless mini tournaments, not by giving away regular season fixtures.  That and massive TV deals.  A lot harder to do that with the NFL.

 

Imagine the Manchester derby being held in New York City, there would be riots in the streets.  Why are we just supposed to accept one of our few home games being taken away? 

 

 

I understand fans not wanting home guys taken away. It sucks for those fans, but it is what it is. For the good of the game, it's immediate financial success and the long term success of the sport it is going to happen. 

 

It will happen with Premier League soccer. The 39th game idea will come back. And when it does it will pass. It is as inevitable as the NFL getting their 17 game season was. 

[Rochesterfan]

2 hours ago, Augie said:

 

A) Pre-season games do not count.

 

B) So it’s about money? Shocking! 

 

Look, we don’t have to agree on this. I’m not boycotting the NFL or anything over it. I just don’t happen to be a fan of messing with what we’ve always enjoyed so they can make more money. I don’t resent their making more money one little bit. I’m not a fan of disrupting the game any more than they already have. I don’t get to vote except with my feet, and I’m not THAT upset over it.  So I’ll carry on just fine. 

 

The NBA doesn’t play regular season games in China, but they sure want to expand their global presence. It’s the practical aspect I don’t like, not expanding interest. 

 

But again, I’m still here.  

 

 

EDIT: I didn’t like the Toronto series either, but I get what they were thinking. This is kind of as bigger version of that. 

 

Except they did play regular seasons games in China a few years ago.  MLB starts the season in Japan and Korea and have it several times.  The NHL played games in Europe several times. 
 

Why shouldn’t the NFL.  For the NFL it is must less disruptive than other sports as they play once a week - so there is little difference between traveling to Europe and West Coast.  The addition of fans and potential players is huge to the sport and the future of the NFL.

 

As far as games for this year - Europe is weeks ahead of the US in terms of the virus.  If it is ok to play in the US - it will be ok to play in most of Europe.  If US games are delayed - then overseas games will be also.

[Augie]

19 minutes ago, Rochesterfan said:

 

Except they did play regular seasons games in China a few years ago.  MLB starts the season in Japan and Korea and have it several times.  The NHL played games in Europe several times. 
 

Why shouldn’t the NFL.  For the NFL it is must less disruptive than other sports as they play once a week - so there is little difference between traveling to Europe and West Coast.  The addition of fans and potential players is huge to the sport and the future of the NFL.

 

As far as games for this year - Europe is weeks ahead of the US in terms of the virus.  If it is ok to play in the US - it will be ok to play in most of Europe.  If US games are delayed - then overseas games will be also.

 

They do not schedule regular season MLB games in in the gut of the season overseas, just maybe rarely to start season. They are the equivalent of a 7th preseason NFL game. The NBA and MLB both play about double the games they should, so one game rarely matters.  In the NFL one game is HUGE! THAT is why I care so much.

 

You are arguing “the future of the NFL”.  That’s only huge to the profits of the owners. I don’t hate them for it, but I don’t like taking the game to random places. How did Mexico City turn out?  Look, I know it’s happening, I’m only commenting on what I like and dislike. 

 

I’d be curious to see a poll of current posters here, but it’s not worth the effort as it changes nothing. I’m not carrying this flag any further. It’s just not worth it. They are going to do it, I don’t really like it. I know some will agree with me. The end. 

 

 

.

Edited March 31, 2020 by Augie

[Rochesterfan]

1 minute ago, Augie said:

 

They do not schedule regular season MLB games in China, unless maybe to start season. They are the equivalent of a 7th preseason NFL game. The NBA and MLB both play about double the games they should, so one game rarely matters.  In the NFL one game is HUGE! THAT is why I care so much.

 

You are arguing “the future of the NFL”.  That’s only huge to the profits of the owners. I don’t hate them for it, but I don’t like taking the game to random places. How did Mexico City turn out?  Look, I know it’s happening, I’m only commenting on what I like and dislike. 

 

I’d be curious to see a poll of current posters here, but it’s not worth the effort as it changes nothing. I’m not carrying this flag any further. It’s just not worth it. They are going to do it, I don’t really like it. I know some will agree with me. The end. 

 

I agree as a % of the season it is less, but for years MLB starts the season with 2-4 teams playing 2 sets of 3 games in Asia - while other teams are finishing the preseason.  The do it to peak fan interest and more importantly to get players interested in playing ball in the US to increase the talent.  The fact that it also brings in nice money - even though few in the US see the games as they are played in the middle of the night.

 

The NBA sent 4 teams to China several years ago to play regular season games at the start of the season and it had become a staple until the owners talked about Hong Kong freedoms and that little issue has cost the NBA billions.

 

Just this year the NHL sent multiple teams to Europe and Scandinavia to play a bunch of regular season games.  It increases European fan connection and helps a major drawing point for NHL players.

 

The NFL is no different - they would love to get some European athletes to become future NFL players.  They also know they have a healthy fan base in Europe to draw from and want to keep them engaged as that is a nice source of revenue.

 

The biggest difference in the sports is that the NBA plays every other night - so it gets hard once the season is going to float a long trip to Asia - so you do it at the start.  Baseball is the same way - once the regular season starts there are few breaks to have teams able to travel like they can at the start of the season.  The NHL did that for years in Europe and this was the first time in a while they did it in the middle of the season.  
 

The NFL on the other hand has a huge amount of time between games - that makes it easier to move and less of an issue than other sports.  I also get that you hate it, but as a fundamental issue facing the NFL - you need to continue to find new revenue streams and new fans and international games can provide that.  I enjoy games at the stadium and love watching games on TV - so either way it is fine and I find I enjoy watching the pomp of the games in England.  I hated the Toronto series because I hated losing the game every year, but once every couple of years doesn’t really bother me and the fact that the Bills are becoming a better team - I love the added exposure for our area.

[Billl]

3 hours ago, SirAndrew said:

If there’s a season, I’m sure there will be International games. Heck, Goodell will probably want a game in Wuhan as a sign of goodwill. 

Sadly, that would be safer than any major city in the US.

[Augie]

23 minutes ago, Rochesterfan said:

 

 I agree as a % of the season it is less, but for years MLB starts the season with 2-4 teams playing 2 sets of 3 games in Asia - while other teams are finishing the preseason.  The do it to peak fan interest and more importantly to get players interested in playing ball in the US to increase the talent.  The fact that it also brings in nice money - even though few in the US see the games as they are played in the middle of the night.

 

The NBA sent 4 teams to China several years ago to play regular season games at the start of the season and it had become a staple until the owners talked about Hong Kong freedoms and that little issue has cost the NBA billions.

 

Just this year the NHL sent multiple teams to Europe and Scandinavia to play a bunch of regular season games.  It increases European fan connection and helps a major drawing point for NHL players.

 

The NFL is no different - they would love to get some European athletes to become future NFL players.  They also know they have a healthy fan base in Europe to draw from and want to keep them engaged as that is a nice source of revenue.

 

The biggest difference in the sports is that the NBA plays every other night - so it gets hard once the season is going to float a long trip to Asia - so you do it at the start.  Baseball is the same way - once the regular season starts there are few breaks to have teams able to travel like they can at the start of the season.  The NHL did that for years in Europe and this was the first time in a while they did it in the middle of the season.  
 

The NFL on the other hand has a huge amount of time between games - that makes it easier to move and less of an issue than other sports.  I also get that you hate it, but as a fundamental issue facing the NFL - you need to continue to find new revenue streams and new fans and international games can provide that.  I enjoy games at the stadium and love watching games on TV - so either way it is fine and I find I enjoy watching the pomp of the games in England.  I hated the Toronto series because I hated losing the game every year, but once every couple of years doesn’t really bother me and the fact that the Bills are becoming a better team - I love the added exposure for our area.

 

As to the bold, FAR less! Also, hoops, soccer, and baseball players either standing around or actually sitting is nothing like the brutal NFL! 

 

You and other are failing to get my point. I’m sorry you typed so much. I get WHY they do it, I just don’t LIKE it. Each game is precious to me. I’m out after this on this topic. People trying to prove why it makes sense are wasting their time. I GET IT, I just don’t LIKE it. I’d rather see a game from Mile High or the Dog Pound. A few overseas is fine, this is more than I like.

 

Look, I’m not trying to make you eat chocolate if you prefer vanilla. Relax! We all get an opinion! I don’t think mine is that outrageous. 

 

 

Am I alone here???

 

 

. 

Edited March 31, 2020 by Augie

[Motor26]

23 minutes ago, Billl said:

Sadly, that would be safer than any major city in the US.

No one believes China’s infections and death numbers. They’re at least double what they’re putting out there. And that’s being modest.

Edited March 31, 2020 by Motor26

[GunnerBill]

17 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

As to the bold, FAR less! Also, hoops, soccer, and baseball players either standing around or actually sitting is nothing like the brutal NFL! 

 

You and other are failing to get my point. I’m sorry you typed so much. I get WHY they do it, I just don’t LIKE it. Each game is precious to me. I’m out after this on this topic. People trying to prove why it makes sense are wasting their time. I GET IT, I just don’t LIKE it. I’d rather see a game from Mile High or the Dog Pound. A few overseas is fine, this is more than I like.

 

Look, I’m not trying to make you eat chocolate if you prefer vanilla. Relax! We all get an opinion! I don’t think mine is that outrageous. 

 

 

Am I alone here???

 

 

. 

 

No you are allowed not to like it. The same way in another thread I am saying look I know Tyrod doesn't suck but I still can't stand watching him play. I just don't like his game. 

 

I only took to task your previous argument that it was bad for the game, because respectfully I disagree with that. And not just for money reasons as I have said. I think long term the sport to continue to thrive will need an international fanbase beyond the shores of the USA.

[Augie]

9 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

No you are allowed not to like it. The same way in another thread I am saying look I know Tyrod doesn't suck but I still can't stand watching him play. I just don't like his game. 

 

I only took to task your previous argument that it was bad for the game, because respectfully I disagree with that. And not just for money reasons as I have said. I think long term the sport to continue to thrive will need an international fanbase beyond the shores of the USA.

 

Unlike soccer (which is AMAZING here in Atlanta now, BTW!) I’m not sure how well the sport translates to other places. I get they can grow the paying fanbase, but it’s not like soccer or hoops that is much easier to spread to youth and live action. We shall see. 

[thronethinker]

So it appears to be for sure now. 

[Chandler#81]

Thread.