par73 Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 1 hour ago, Reed83HOF said: I will be bummed if we pick Higgins, just have no love for this guy. Gets dinged up, not good a releasing, can suffer from the dropsies, not great at seperation, not great at YAC = not what I want, especially at 22 Don't want to beat up on the guy too much (I've made several posts about him already), but I feel the same way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reed83HOF Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 1 minute ago, par73 said: Don't want to beat up on the guy too much (I've made several posts about him already), but I feel the same way. I mean I don't hate him, just not a great for for us and see a skill vs need/want mismatch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 18 minutes ago, Reed83HOF said: He misses time during the games, my best friend went to Clemson and is a huge fan (I have watched enough games), personally I see a Will Fuller type player in him. What he does have: 1.) good catch radius 2.) makes contested catches 3.) body control 4.) good on the outside What he doesn't have: 1.) struggles in tight spaces (dropsies) and 2.) does not get good separation, 3.) YAC is based on big plays and not on stopping making a defender miss and taking it to the house 4.) limited route tree - is this based on slower agility and he can only be effective on the outside (as Beane says are the coaches protecting the player?) 5.) double digit receptions What we are missing on the team 1.) Separation 2.) YAC 3.) consistent catching What Daboll requires: 1.) good route tree 2.) I am going to generalize here, but the WR needs to have a brain in his skull to read the D and change their route Where I struggle is: 1.) a limited route tree (by far better on the outside than in, 2.) doesn't make players miss 3.) most of his success (stats) have been on downfield plays, which is not a staple of our offense. Josh as of now is a short and mid throw passer, our OL is not great and we want to get the ball out of his hands quicker. A slower WR who seems to be an outside only guy who plays better with the long ball than the short =/= what we are doing on offense. There are simply better players who fit the mold Edit: forgot to mention this - Is he CJ Spiller/Sammy level clemson intelligent? We could also use some height at WR. A wr that is always open, regardless of separation. He IS that. He has tremendous hands and catches almost everything in his grasp (minus some lapses on easy grabs). I think his RAC is under appreciated to be honest. It’s not great but he knows how to maximize yardage from what I’ve seen. When you have those hands and that size you don’t always need separation. i get it. You want more explosiveness and there are more explosive WRs in this draft. Makes sense, I don’t blame you. I just think Higgins is better than you think he is. A lot will depend on his QBs ability (as is with many WRs). Allen might not be a good fit if he can’t get it close. He’s gonna need a qb that can get it within range. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan17 Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 Moreover, Higgins had six drops (out of 120 catchable balls) over two years, not sure where the narrative started that he has issues catching the ball. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 15 minutes ago, Reed83HOF said: I mean I don't hate him, just not a great for for us and see a skill vs need/want mismatch. Nor do I hate him. I just don't want him at #22. Now if he falls into Round 2, I won't feel bad if Beane trades up to get him in the #35-40 range, where I feel his value is more appropriate. Just don't overdraft for need, which I trust this front office (if not TSW) to do... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reed83HOF Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 8 minutes ago, NewEra said: We could also use some height at WR. A wr that is always open, regardless of separation. He IS that. He has tremendous hands and catches almost everything in his grasp (minus some lapses on easy grabs). I think his RAC is under appreciated to be honest. It’s not great but he knows how to maximize yardage from what I’ve seen. When you have those hands and that size you don’t always need separation. i get it. You want more explosiveness and there are more explosive WRs in this draft. Makes sense, I don’t blame you. I just think Higgins is better than you think he is. A lot will depend on his QBs ability (as is with many WRs). Allen might not be a good fit if he can’t get it close. He’s gonna need a qb that can get it within range. With your top point on size and always open - I used to feel that way as well. I think I have evolved past that though. I need someone who can separate and catch. As McD says, I want someone who can catch the ball - we have had too many drops (higgins catches the ball). IIRC, Josh is better when he gets rid of the ball in under 2.5 seconds - so knowing what route to run based on the D (and be able to go in or out) and be open in 2.5 seconds is a skill I am looking highly at right now. In that short time frame, making a catch in tight quarters and being able to accelerate to generate YAC and make some people miss is at the top of my list for needs in a WR. When I hear a WR who is big and open regardless of speartation I envision that player as the QBs best friend, a TE, which is where I like that profile a lot, someone who can be mean like Knox (when he holds on to the ball). It's not that I don't like Higgins, just feel he isn't a match skill wise for what I see at least. I think he will be a solid WR in the NFL. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IgotBILLStopay Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 4 hours ago, thebandit27 said: Simpson is a MAN. Simpson completely neutralized Quinnen Williams in last year's championship game. But .. he was not so good at the Senior bowl. So which Simpson will we get? I dont mind using a 4th rounder on him at all. Can probably fill in for Spain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOKBILLS Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 54 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said: I wouldn't say slow It just looks better to run a 4.43 handtimed , than run a 4.51 laser Fair enough...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 19 minutes ago, Reed83HOF said: With your top point on size and always open - I used to feel that way as well. I think I have evolved past that though. I need someone who can separate and catch. As McD says, I want someone who can catch the ball - we have had too many drops (higgins catches the ball). IIRC, Josh is better when he gets rid of the ball in under 2.5 seconds - so knowing what route to run based on the D (and be able to go in or out) and be open in 2.5 seconds is a skill I am looking highly at right now. In that short time frame, making a catch in tight quarters and being able to accelerate to generate YAC and make some people miss is at the top of my list for needs in a WR. When I hear a WR who is big and open regardless of speartation I envision that player as the QBs best friend, a TE, which is where I like that profile a lot, someone who can be mean like Knox (when he holds on to the ball). It's not that I don't like Higgins, just feel he isn't a match skill wise for what I see at least. I think he will be a solid WR in the NFL. I feel Josh is wants a big target. Duke actually plays vs the Texans and leads the team in targets with 10. Maybe that was due to the Texans scheme, regardless, he threw the big mans way. I really like mims too. Wouldn’t be upset if we took him before Tee. Lots to like in this draft. I think we’re going to get exactly the guy Beane and McD want. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Otreply Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 3 hours ago, Reed83HOF said: He misses time during the games, my best friend went to Clemson and is a huge fan (I have watched enough games), personally I see a Will Fuller type player in him. What he does have: 1.) good catch radius 2.) makes contested catches 3.) body control 4.) good on the outside What he doesn't have: 1.) struggles in tight spaces (dropsies) and 2.) does not get good separation, 3.) YAC is based on big plays and not on stopping making a defender miss and taking it to the house 4.) limited route tree - is this based on slower agility and he can only be effective on the outside (as Beane says are the coaches protecting the player?) 5.) double digit receptions What we are missing on the team 1.) Separation 2.) YAC 3.) consistent catching What Daboll requires: 1.) good route tree 2.) I am going to generalize here, but the WR needs to have a brain in his skull to read the D and change their route Where I struggle is: 1.) a limited route tree (by far better on the outside than in, 2.) doesn't make players miss 3.) most of his success (stats) have been on downfield plays, which is not a staple of our offense. Josh as of now is a short and mid throw passer, our OL is not great and we want to get the ball out of his hands quicker. A slower WR who seems to be an outside only guy who plays better with the long ball than the short =/= what we are doing on offense. There are simply better players who fit the mold Edit: forgot to mention this - Is he CJ Spiller/Sammy level clemson intelligent? Sammy it appears is s flat earther, not that many people are that willfully ignorant, so there is hope for Tee... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Junction Posted March 13, 2020 Share Posted March 13, 2020 4 hours ago, Reed83HOF said: With your top point on size and always open - I used to feel that way as well. I think I have evolved past that though. I need someone who can separate and catch. As McD says, I want someone who can catch the ball - we have had too many drops (higgins catches the ball). IIRC, Josh is better when he gets rid of the ball in under 2.5 seconds - so knowing what route to run based on the D (and be able to go in or out) and be open in 2.5 seconds is a skill I am looking highly at right now. In that short time frame, making a catch in tight quarters and being able to accelerate to generate YAC and make some people miss is at the top of my list for needs in a WR. When I hear a WR who is big and open regardless of speartation I envision that player as the QBs best friend, a TE, which is where I like that profile a lot, someone who can be mean like Knox (when he holds on to the ball). It's not that I don't like Higgins, just feel he isn't a match skill wise for what I see at least. I think he will be a solid WR in the NFL. This basically sums up my sentiments on the matter. I think that as a whole we should be focusing on the wideouts with QB experience, advanced route running, exceptional separation skills, and/ experience in Daboll’s system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaCrispy Posted March 13, 2020 Share Posted March 13, 2020 Trade down... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicken Boo Posted March 13, 2020 Share Posted March 13, 2020 Higgins is my guy at #22. That won't change between now and the draft. He can be for Allen what Plaxico was for Eli. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrEpsYtown Posted March 13, 2020 Share Posted March 13, 2020 10 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said: Remember this tweet, CLEARLY the Bills have an interest. You aren’t bringing your OL coach unless there was someone you wanted him to see up close. Reminds me of McDermott working Ed Oliver to death on all those d line drills at his pro day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Locomark Posted March 13, 2020 Share Posted March 13, 2020 11 hours ago, KOKBILLS said: Maybe so...I know folks like Mims more for example, and he's got pretty good height and length as well as more explosion...No doubt you will not get a consensus on Drafting Tee...Especially at #22... However I do get the feeling that is exactly what the Bills are going to do...I watched him a ton last year...Seemed open a lot to me and Lawrence threw it to him regardless...I have no issues with Tee assuming they don't take him ahead of the top 3 WR's......But I fully understand those who do, and why they do...We'll just have to see...? Tee made a lot of catches that were off the Mark where Lawrence but the ball in awkward positions or off his stride....sound familiar? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted March 13, 2020 Share Posted March 13, 2020 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Locomark said: Tee made a lot of catches that were off the Mark where Lawrence but the ball in awkward positions or off his stride....sound familiar? Yes there were frequent bailouts for Trev’s inaccuracies and “yolo” (no relation) passes Edited March 13, 2020 by YoloinOhio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsbackto81 Posted March 13, 2020 Share Posted March 13, 2020 19 hours ago, hjnick said: Now we know why he was tired at the combine... Does this push him back in the WR line??? 2nd round now? Larry Fitzgerald 4.63 Jerry Rice 4.71 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted March 13, 2020 Share Posted March 13, 2020 2 hours ago, billsbackto81 said: Larry Fitzgerald 2004 Jerry Rice 1985 Fixed... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted March 13, 2020 Share Posted March 13, 2020 Fine with Higgins at 22 he absolutely feels a need Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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