Slithering Towards Dictatorship

[Westside]

35 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

So it is ok if Trump is working with world leaders right now to steal/influence or otherwise fix the election. 

 

There would be nothing wrong with that, according to the Senate 

And according to the Democrats, getting information about a political opponent from a foreign country is ok if your paying for it. 

[IDBillzFan]

If Dems truly want to ensure a fair vote, we all know the answer: mandatory voter ID. 

 

No ID? No vote.

 

This will ensure only Americans vote for the next president.

 

So how about it, Dems? Put your money where you mouth is. Demand voter ID!
 

One ID...One VOTE! No more harvesting. No more interference. Just Americans with their ID, voting for their president.

 

Who's with me?

[Tiberius]

2 minutes ago, westside2 said:

And according to the Democrats, getting information about a political opponent from a foreign country is ok if your paying for it. 

Opposition research is different from using the power of government to force other governments to get involved. 

 

But you are saying, yes, Trump should be busy trying to steal the election. I hope he goes to jail

[Kemp]

On 2/2/2020 at 11:17 AM, njbuff said:

 

Just to make a point here about refusing to accept election results.

 

Again, who are the ones that REFUSE to take the 2016 results............. Yeah, that's right...............

 

the fvcking moronic left are the ones refusing it.

 

I am no fan of Republicans because they are beyond spineless, but you fvcking leftists are totally out of your mother fvcking minds. 

 

There is no other way to put it. Trump has you folks brain damaged.

 

The Dems were angry but accepted it. I thought you knew Trump was in the White House, when he's not making the taxpayers pay to have guests at his clubs.

 

I overestimated once again when I assumed people would know that refusing to turn over ownership of the White House is different than people complaining about not winning.

 

Must continue to remind myself what I am dealing with, here.

Edited February 3, 2020 by Kemp

[Kemp]

On 2/2/2020 at 11:40 AM, snafu said:

 

 

Here is a nice, detailed article that describes this issue.  This border crossing fence/barrier/wall has been an issue since 2007 (and most likely before). https://www.texastribune.org/2017/12/14/border-land-grab-government-abused-power-seize-property-fence/

 

Your entire thread premise is that THIS President is dragging us toward "dictatorship".  Your example is the border wall.  As to the bold and underlined part of your post, that's what I'd like to ask you...why, when this has been done by two prior administrations, is it different to you that this current administration does it?

 

Just be honest.  You don't like him.  Few people do.  That doesn't make him a dictator.  It is people with attitudes like yours that inspire actual violence and groups like antifa to show up at Grand Central Station to protest perfectly acceptable government behavior -- or to practically take over cities like Portland, because the "perception" of Trump to be an existential threat to our Democracy. 

 

Your fear and loathing of this President causes you and people like you to lash out at anyone who challenges your orthodoxy, as evidenced by the responses you've made in this thread.

 

 

 

 

 

I cited the border wall in my original post? Untrue.

It's belief that he should be allowed to do anything he wants, despite the laws. That is the seed of dictatorship. 

On 2/2/2020 at 11:44 AM, GG said:

 

The search function on this board stinks.  Can you please point me to your other posts on this matter, prior to January 2017?

 

Because I have never posted that here it is not my belief?

 

I searched and could not find a post from you stating you are anti-rape. Must I conclude that you are pro-rape from this?

[Kemp]

On 2/2/2020 at 12:25 PM, 3rdnlng said:

Here, you forgot this. You should make sure to take it with you because you're bound to need it again:

 

 

DR loves his villagers carrying the flames, sort of how Trump liked them in Charlottesville. At least he pretends to be smart.

On 2/2/2020 at 1:49 PM, Buffalo Timmy said:

I think you are trying to show how Trump has taken rights but eminent domain has existed since the beginning of our country and using to secure our border is an appropriate use of it. I am more of the mindset that taking away my right to go to the doctor of my choosing, or take away my right to choose where my child goes to school.

 

Offer up your home to the government. Do your part.

[Kemp]

On 2/2/2020 at 1:57 PM, Buffalo Timmy said:

You should probably change your name to someone who was not a reasonable politician- maybe become pelosi or Schiff. Trump will not have the backing of anyone of importance to stay, so he will leave. When Trump wins will you accept it or will I have 4 more years of hearing about the popular vote as Dems lie to smear him? 

 

I will B word and moan but I will have no choice but to accept it

 

Will you accept him refusing to leave if he loses, or will you also claim it was a fix?

 

I asked this a while ago. You at least brought up a different scenario, but did not answer. Why are you afraid to answer?

[keepthefaith]

1 hour ago, IDBillzFan said:

If Dems truly want to ensure a fair vote, we all know the answer: mandatory voter ID. 

 

No ID? No vote.

 

This will ensure only Americans vote for the next president.

 

So how about it, Dems? Put your money where you mouth is. Demand voter ID!
 

One ID...One VOTE! No more harvesting. No more interference. Just Americans with their ID, voting for their president.

 

Who's with me?

 

Except that so many states now offer driver's licenses and State ID's to anyone citizen or not.  Other than that, I'm with you. 

[GG]

11 minutes ago, Kemp said:

 

I cited the border wall in my original post? Untrue.

It's belief that he should be allowed to do anything he wants, despite the laws. That is the seed of dictatorship. 

 

Because I have never posted that here it is not my belief?

 

I searched and could not find a post from you stating you are anti-rape. Must I conclude that you are pro-rape from this?

 

Not only are you lazy, but you're also a class A liar.  I have plenty of anti-rape posts in threads that discuss rape.  Nice try, though.

 

Did you ever wonder why you picked the one example of Trump using "dictatorial" powers in a case where such power is enshrined in law (Legislative approval) and consistently backed up by the highest court (Judiciary) over centuries?

 

Why aren't you citing the far more numerous examples of hostile Legislature and Judiciary going to great lengths to block everything he tries?   Would a dictator allow a vote of no confidence to be held, let alone impeachment?  Instead of eminent domain, cite one example of Trump doing anything that wasn't granted to the Executive branch by the Constitution, or allowed by Legislative or Judiciary?

[Kemp]

1 hour ago, IDBillzFan said:

If Dems truly want to ensure a fair vote, we all know the answer: mandatory voter ID. 

 

No ID? No vote.

 

This will ensure only Americans vote for the next president.

 

So how about it, Dems? Put your money where you mouth is. Demand voter ID!
 

One ID...One VOTE! No more harvesting. No more interference. Just Americans with their ID, voting for their president.

 

Who's with me?

 

I am with you, but in addition, stop stripping the voting rolls, stop closing polling places, eliminate gerrymandering, make Election Day a national holiday so that anyone can vote when it's not a burden.

[GG]

27 minutes ago, Kemp said:

 

The Dems were angry but accepted it.

 

You're also a bad comedian.

[Kemp]

3 minutes ago, GG said:

 

Not only are you lazy, but you're also a class A liar.  I have plenty of anti-rape posts in threads that discuss rape.  Nice try, though.

 

Did you ever wonder why you picked the one example of Trump using "dictatorial" powers in a case where such power is enshrined in law (Legislative approval) and consistently backed up by the highest court (Judiciary) over centuries?

 

Why aren't you citing the far more numerous examples of hostile Legislature and Judiciary going to great lengths to block everything he tries?   Would a dictator allow a vote of no confidence to be held, let alone impeachment?  Instead of eminent domain, cite one example of Trump doing anything that wasn't granted to the Executive branch by the Constitution, or allowed by Legislative or Judiciary?

 

Wow! You must really be angry at all of the bills that came from the House that McConnell refuses to address.

5 minutes ago, GG said:

 

You're also a bad comedian.

 

Trump isn't the President?

 

Even DR knows that he is. He won't even let you be one of his villagers if you keep this up.

[GG]

Just now, Kemp said:

 

Wow! You must really be angry at all of the bills that came from the House that McConnell refuses to address.

 

I didn't know that McConnell was part of the Executive branch?  Don't tell me, you will also blame Garland's block on Trump's dictatorial influence.

[Kemp]

Just now, GG said:

 

I didn't know that McConnell was part of the Executive branch?  Don't tell me, you will also blame Garland's block on Trump's dictatorial influence.

 

You were pointing out the failures of government,  I brought up a different problem of government. 

 

Are you pretending to not understand. That would be more complimentary than the other possibility.

[GG]

2 minutes ago, Kemp said:

 

You were pointing out the failures of government,  I brought up a different problem of government. 

 

Are you pretending to not understand. That would be more complimentary than the other possibility.

 

I'm asking you to present proof that we are slithering towards a dictatorship - which would include examples where the Executive is acting on powers beyond what he is allowed to do by law.  

 

Go!

[Kemp]

6 pages in. Everyone is afraid of the question on whether you would support Trump refusing to leave if he loses.

 

If the answer is Yes, you are fine with a dictatorship. Odd that none of you has the balls to answer.

 

Maybe you're all waiting for the loser in the basement to retweet in big fonts. That will show everybody.

[Kemp]

2 minutes ago, GG said:

 

I'm asking you to present proof that we are slithering towards a dictatorship - which would include examples where the Executive is acting on powers beyond what he is allowed to do by law.  

 

Go!

 

1. He withheld funds to Ukraine after Congress approved it. That he released the funds after getting caught is irrelevant.

 

2. He is using his office for financial gain. Numerous abuses of the Emoluments Clause is just part of the evidence.

 

3. He refuses to hold open press conferences, a hallmark trait of dictatorships, preferring to have his own government media outlet.

 

4. He has openly invited foreign adversaries to help him win by illegal means.

 

5. He refused to testify or give all the written answers for Mueller.

 

6. He blocked witnesses in the impeachment trial. Innocent men want exculpatory witnesses.

 

There are lots more, but what's the difference. You want him as your dictator.

[GG]

6 minutes ago, Kemp said:

 

1. He withheld funds to Ukraine after Congress approved it. That he released the funds after getting caught is irrelevant.

 

2. He is using his office for financial gain. Numerous abuses of the Emoluments Clause is just part of the evidence.

 

3. He refuses to hold open press conferences, a hallmark trait of dictatorships, preferring to have his own government media outlet.

 

4. He has openly invited foreign adversaries to help him win by illegal means.

 

5. He refused to testify or give all the written answers for Mueller.

 

6. He blocked witnesses in the impeachment trial. Innocent men want exculpatory witnesses.

 

There are lots more, but what's the difference. You want him as your dictator.

 

Just as I said before.  You're a bad comedian.

 

Where were you when every POTUS did this, as is allowed by law?  Or when the press and favorable Legislative allowed the prior Executive to exceed the enumerated powers?  Who singlehandedly overturned bankruptcy law?  Which candidate still refuses to concede?  

 

But yeah, Trump is the one who is the dictator.   Or it could be that you don't know the meaning of that word.

 

 

[IDBillzFan]

27 minutes ago, Kemp said:

 

I am with you, but in addition, stop stripping the voting rolls, stop closing polling places, eliminate gerrymandering, make Election Day a national holiday so that anyone can vote when it's not a burden.

 

You can't just stop stripping the voting rolls. Why do you think CA is blue in every nook and cranny? Because of harvesting, which happens when you DON'T strip the rolls. They collect every unused ballot and put it to work in their favor.

 

If a state (like Ohio, as an example) finds you haven't voted in that state in the past two years, and you're not responding to mail, then you should be purged from the voting rolls. Want to get back in to vote? Register again, with ID, to get your voter ID. Just that easy.

 

 

12 minutes ago, Kemp said:

6 pages in. Everyone is afraid of the question on whether you would support Trump refusing to leave if he loses.

 

You guys are tripping out. Trump would never refuse to leave office, and no one on this board would accept it if he did. Not a one. It's a moronic hypothetical meant to scare your base to get them to vote for whatever angry white person the Dems put up next.

[dgrochester55]

If witnesses were important to the democrats, then they should have let the other side call witnesses too, but they did not want that.   How on any planet is that a fair trial?    Isn't putting through a trial to change the leader of a country without letting the other side defend a bit closer to the traits of a dictatorship that a president who can be loud and obnoxious?

 

During this whole time they tried to make this as one sided as possible and give the other side as little chance to defend themselves as possible.  When it got to the senate and a defense was finally allowed to present their case, it was not seen as strong enough to continue.  

 

Trump is by no means perfect, but if that was impeachable, then every single president in the last 50 years could have been impeached for something. 

 

 

Edited February 3, 2020 by dgrochester55

[Tiberius]

30 minutes ago, GG said:

 

I'm asking you to present proof that we are slithering towards a dictatorship - which would include examples where the Executive is acting on powers beyond what he is allowed to do by law.  

 

Go!

Where to start? 

How about seizing funds that were not congressional appropriated for a certain job? The wall

How about skipping congressional approval for primary officers of state? Like an attorney general overseeing an investigation of the President? 

Cheating at elections would seem to be a pretty big one, but to you GG, it’s only bad if Dems would have done it. 

How about obstructing congress in its attempt to get the truth? 

Threatening certain corporations, remember that? Imagine if Bernie Sanders gets to do that? 

All the corruption, that’s very dictator like. 

Getting security clearances for people the professionals said should not have them. 

Hobnobbing with the dictators. What else would a dictator do? 

 

 

Ya ya, Hillary something something emails....

37 minutes ago, Kemp said:

6 pages in. Everyone is afraid of the question on whether you would support Trump refusing to leave if he loses.

 

If the answer is Yes, you are fine with a dictatorship. Odd that none of you has the balls to answer.

 

Maybe you're all waiting for the loser in the basement to retweet in big fonts. That will show everybody.

What makes anyone think he can lose now? He got impeached for cheating in THIS election, he will do whatever he wants and only get a slap on the back from those people who....

[Westside]

2 hours ago, Tiberius said:

Opposition research is different from using the power of government to force other governments to get involved. 

 

But you are saying, yes, Trump should be busy trying to steal the election. I hope he goes to jail

Wait! You don't call the FBI, CIA, all under Obama using the force government wrong? This isn't an opinion like with Trump, this actually happened. 

[4merper4mer]

42 minutes ago, Kemp said:

6 pages in. Everyone is afraid of the question on whether you would support Trump refusing to leave if he loses.

 

If the answer is Yes, you are fine with a dictatorship. Odd that none of you has the balls to answer.

 

Maybe you're all waiting for the loser in the basement to retweet in big fonts. That will show everybody.

LOL I've seen that same question asked about Bill Clinton, GWB and Obama.  None of them refused to leave when it was there time nor will Trump.  It was the same crap then too.  Staged crisis....martial law....blah blah blah.

 

The closest thing we've had regarding people refusing to leave were Al Gore and Hillary.

[GG]

5 minutes ago, 4merper4mer said:

The closest thing we've had regarding people refusing to leave were Al Gore and Hillary.

 

And Bloomberg

 

PS - That's what I love about the left.   They're always more worried about hypotheticals, than what's actually happening in front of their eyes.

Edited February 3, 2020 by GG

[B-Man]

4 minutes ago, 4merper4mer said:

LOL I've seen that same question asked about Bill Clinton, GWB and Obama.  None of them refused to leave when it was there time nor will Trump.  

It was the same crap then too.  Staged crisis....martial law....blah blah blah.

 

The closest thing we've had regarding people refusing to leave were Al Gore and Hillary.

 

It's liberal projection........

 

 

 

"Offer Alaska"............These people call Trump crazy, but it’s projection. They’re insane.

 

 

.

[Tiberius]

8 minutes ago, westside2 said:

Wait! You don't call the FBI, CIA, all under Obama using the force government wrong? This isn't an opinion like with Trump, this actually happened. 

This is how it will work. Trump will do more things wrong and you guys will make up more lies.

 

All the lies you guys spread are just another example of Trump’s contempt for republicanism. Trump’s lies are just more proof of his intentions. 

 

You know how ill roll. I’m a white guy. How will the tea party Trumpers know I’m not one of them? Oh the fun I’ll have. 

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

1 minute ago, B-Man said:

 

It's liberal projection........

 

 

 

"Offer Alaska"............These people call Trump crazy, but it’s projection. They’re insane.

 

 

.

 

 

...thought I read his offered California but Putin said, "that's YOUR problem"..............

[Tiberius]

31 minutes ago, dgrochester55 said:

 

 

 

Trump is by no means perfect, but if that was impeachable, then every single president in the last 50 years could have been impeached for something. 

 

 

Oh? Ok, how about Bush I for example? What foreign influence did he invite to throw the election? 

[snafu]

1 hour ago, Kemp said:

I cited the border wall in my original post? Untrue.

It's belief that he should be allowed to do anything he wants, despite the laws. That is the seed of dictatorship. 

 

I know what your first post was and that you didn't use the border wall as an example until later. The timing of your posts isn't relevant.  The border wall example was your only example.

 

Who believes that the President should "do anything he wants, despite the laws"?  You haven't provided anything unique to this President that would support your assertion that THIS President is turning our country into a dictatorship.  Don't use Ukraine -- he's about to be acquitted.

 

 

[dgrochester55]

22 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

Oh? Ok, how about Bush I for example? What foreign influence did he invite to throw the election? 

 

I thought that this impeachment was about Ukraine and not Russia which was disproven.   I do not see a purpose in arguing because you seem to be too trusting in the mainstream media which was a part of this attempted coup.  If you want Trump out, the wonderful news for you is that  you have the chance to do that in November! 

 

I will probably vote libertarian again like i have in the last three elections.   You see I don't like Trump either, I just find him a bit less dangerous than a party who has done nothing but attempt to overthrow him since january of 2017.   

 

I hope that you also exercise your right to vote for who you want.   Have a great day

Edited February 3, 2020 by dgrochester55

[Prickly Pete]

1 minute ago, snafu said:

 

I know what your first post was and that you didn't use the border wall as an example until later. The timing of your posts isn't relevant.  The border wall example was your only example.

 

Who believes that the President should "do anything he wants, despite the laws"?  You haven't provided anything unique to this President that would support your assertion that THIS President is turning our country into a dictatorship.  Don't use Ukraine -- he's about to be acquitted.

 

 

 

Kemp is full of crap, and isn't worth bickering with. He's right there with Schiff, dreaming up crap like "He could give Alaska to the Russians". He just throws crap at the wall, and hopes someone responds.

[snafu]

1 hour ago, Kemp said:

6 pages in. Everyone is afraid of the question on whether you would support Trump refusing to leave if he loses.

 

Why don't you wait until Trump (a) loses, and (b) refuses to leave office.

Of course nobody would support him refusing to leave, but for you to presume that he would do so is absolutely preposterous.

 

[Taro T]

2 hours ago, Azalin said:

 

Agree to disagree, with the concession that term limits is pretty much a pipe dream anyway, considering that it would be the very people affected by the term limits that would be passing the legislation.

 

The fact that they don't seem to want to pass it tells me that it would be bad for them and good for us. 

 

Fair enough.

 

[Nanker]

1 hour ago, Kemp said:

6 pages in. Everyone is afraid of the question on whether you would support Trump refusing to leave if he loses.

 

If the answer is Yes, you are fine with a dictatorship. Odd that none of you has the balls to answer.

 

Maybe you're all waiting for the loser in the basement to retweet in big fonts. That will show everybody.

This is an extremely poorly worded question. "Refusing to leave" just what exactly... The White House? Washington, D.C.? New York? Florida? The USA? The Republican Party? Mara Largo? Trump Tower? His estate in Bridgewater? Refusing to leave a tip? Refusing to leave a note to his successor? 

 

If he loses, he's no longer The President. End of story. To suggest otherwise is a ridiculous posit.

[Prickly Pete]

Here you go....

If Trump loses, and there is no election fraud, I would not support him if he refuses to leave. 

[Deranged Rhino]

2 hours ago, Kemp said:

I overestimated once again when I assumed people would know that refusing to turn over ownership of the White House is different than people complaining about not winning.

 

Is it "complaining about winning" to weaponize the FBI, DOJ, and IC against the winner in an effort to overthrow him in your opinion? 

 

Your dishonest/ignorance is showing again.

2 hours ago, Kemp said:

 

DR loves his villagers carrying the flames, sort of how Trump liked them in Charlottesville. At least he pretends to be smart.

 

 

And yet, you run from any answers. Because you're a coward -- and have the brain the size of a pea.

1 hour ago, Kemp said:

6 pages in. Everyone is afraid of the question on whether you would support Trump refusing to leave if he loses.

 

 

6 pages in and you've yet to answer this: 

 

On 2/1/2020 at 9:10 AM, Deranged Rhino said:

Funny how Kemp doesn't want to talk about the actual authoritarian overreach committed by the government... 

 

 

Page 82: NSA examined all queries using identifiers for "U.S. persons targeted pursuant to Sections 704 and 705(b) of FISA using the [REDACTED / X-Keyscore] tool in [REDACTED] ... from November 1, 2015 to May 1, 2016." Id. at 2-3 (footnote omitted). Based on that examination, "NSA estimates that approximately eighty-five percent of those queries, representing [REDACTED] queires conducted by approximately [REDACTED] targeted offices, were not compliant with the applicable minimization procedures." Id. at 3. Many of these non-compliant queries involved use of the same identifiers over different date ranges. Id. Even so, a non-compliance rate of 85% raises substantial questions about the propriety of using of [REDACTED / X-KEYSCORE] to query FISA data. While the government reports that it is unable to provide a reliable estimate of the number of non-compliant queries since 2012, id., there is no apparent reason to believe the November 2015-April 2016 period coincided with an unusually high error rate.

 

(Emphasis my own)

https://www.dni.gov/files/documents/icotr/51117/2016_Cert_FISC_Memo_Opin_Order_Apr_2017.pdf

 

 

Horowitz reportedly finds FBI lawyer falsified FISA doc

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/horowitz-finds-evidence-fbi-employee-altered-russia-probe-document

 

 

 

FISA court slams FBI conduct in Carter Page surveillance warrant applications

https://www.cnn.com/2019/12/17/politics/fisa-court-slams-fbi-conduct/index.html

 

 

DOJ Determines 2 FISA Spy Warrants on Trump Campaign Adviser Were “Not Valid”

https://themarketswork.com/2020/01/23/doj-determines-2-fisa-spy-warrants-on-trump-campaign-adviser-were-not-valid/

 

Comparing the allegations about Trump and the Ukraine to the proven crimes committed above is not something Kemp wishes to do. Because he knows one is far more dangerous of a slide towards a dictatorship than the other. And, because Kemp is a fool, he's upset about the wrong one. 

 

NPCs say the darndest things. 

 

 

You're a joke.

[Orlando Tim]

2 hours ago, Kemp said:

 

I will B word and moan but I will have no choice but to accept it

 

Will you accept him refusing to leave if he loses, or will you also claim it was a fix?

 

I asked this a while ago. You at least brought up a different scenario, but did not answer. Why are you afraid to answer?

If he loses he will leave- if he does not leave he will be arrested appropriately.

2 hours ago, Kemp said:

 

Offer up your home to the government. Do your part.

If the government decides it needs my house for public safety and pays me fair market value I will do it. Eminent domain is for when no other reasonable solution is feasible.

[Keukasmallies]

On 2/2/2020 at 3:45 PM, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

 

...term limits?...seriously?....what legislation would EVER pass disconnecting the majority of 535  has been lawyers NOT employable in the private sector from the government's teat?....how many of these octogenarian sucklings hang on, reelected over and over by the fickle electorate despite their woeful ineffectiveness, yet cashing in on shear "connections (COUGH)"?...." this PSA is brought to you by the world's greatest democracy to be in your neighborhood soon".....

 

Thanks, you've added another plank to the lumber wagon entitled term limits rationale.  Standing by and watching is not an option.

 

                                                                                If you always do what you always did, you always get what you always got.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

1 minute ago, Keukasmallies said:

 

Thanks, you've added another plank to the lumber wagon entitled term limits rationale.  Standing by and watching is not an option.

 

                                                                                If you always do what you always did, you always get what you always got.

 

 

...ever wonder why the Prez is limited to two terms but no one else??..............

[Keukasmallies]

25 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

 

...ever wonder why the Prez is limited to two terms but no one else??..............

 

My guess is that the no-term-limit office holders are afraid that the President will grow in strength proportionate to themselves thus threatening their fiefdom.