fansince88 Posted October 17, 2020 Share Posted October 17, 2020 4 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: How many people in the US and the world are you Ok with dying? Give me a number. I was not ok wit the 40k that died in NY and not ok with the 220K plus that dies in US. That said, The day they pulled me from the birth canal I started dying. I don't want to loose anyone I love but they will go back to dust someday. I know 1 person that committed suicide because he couldn't take this pandemic so our lockdown didn't help him. The list goes on. People die. We cant stop that bud. But I am willing to make my life a number to win back my rights. Many of which were taken for "my health and wellbeing" and for the "common good of all". Here is a question for you and it is as ignorant as the one you asked me. What rights are you willing to give up permanently or over and over again for 1 life? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted October 17, 2020 Share Posted October 17, 2020 9 minutes ago, spartacus said: even in current "hotspots" around the world- the mortality rates are not skyrocketing they are in fact still dropping 95% of those testing positive do not have symptoms and are not sick of those that get sick, 99.7% successfully recover use treatments the the media continually tries to sabotage take zinc - which boosts your immune system to stop the replication of the virus the proper plan would be to spread it as quickly as possible to use up the remaining hosts masks are a joke because it is a physical impossibility for a mask to stop a .27 micron virus particle ...IMO, the majority of the general public does not know that or even what it means.....besides, they're bombarded with so damn many "do's and don't's" that they don't know what to believe.....at the same time, the visual of people wearing masks serves as a security blanket with people a bit more confident about going out in public....without that, how many MORE would stay confined, damaging the economy even worse.....enough businesses are closing putting more employees out of work now....why not just be prudent, "go with the flow" and wear a mask in public versus being combative and defiant?......how many people have already been killed over mask arguments?.................. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted October 17, 2020 Share Posted October 17, 2020 3 minutes ago, fansince88 said: I was not ok wit the 40k that died in NY and not ok with the 220K plus that dies in US. That said, The day they pulled me from the birth canal I started dying. I don't want to loose anyone I love but they will go back to dust someday. I know 1 person that committed suicide because he couldn't take this pandemic so our lockdown didn't help him. The list goes on. People die. We cant stop that bud. But I am willing to make my life a number to win back my rights. Many of which were taken for "my health and wellbeing" and for the "common good of all". Here is a question for you and it is as ignorant as the one you asked me. What rights are you willing to give up permanently or over and over again for 1 life? What rights did you give up? Seriously. And what rights is anyone saying you give up permanently? Wearing a mask does not violate your rights any more than having to wear a shirt into a business does. We can assemble now as long as we wear masks and we check the number of people to a reasonable degree. I go to church every week now. Go to work. Go out to eat. As Bills fans we all want the stadium to open again, but is that a right? we had to make some adjustments to be sure but no one has permanently lost their rights under the Constitution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted October 17, 2020 Share Posted October 17, 2020 16 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said: ...IMO, the majority of the general public does not know that or even what it means.....besides, they're bombarded with so damn many "do's and don't's" that they don't know what to believe.....at the same time, the visual of people wearing masks serves as a security blanket with people a bit more confident about going out in public....without that, how many MORE would stay confined, damaging the economy even worse.....enough businesses are closing putting more employees out of work now....why not just be prudent, "go with the flow" and wear a mask in public versus being combative and defiant?......how many people have already been killed over mask arguments?.................. Thank you my friend. Nice to see a voice of reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted October 17, 2020 Share Posted October 17, 2020 9 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: Thank you my friend. Nice to see a voice of reason. PLEASE do NOT spread that rumor....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fansince88 Posted October 17, 2020 Share Posted October 17, 2020 11 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: What rights did you give up? Seriously. And what rights is anyone saying you give up permanently? Wearing a mask does not violate your rights any more than having to wear a shirt into a business does. We can assemble now as long as we wear masks and we check the number of people to a reasonable degree. I go to church every week now. Go to work. Go out to eat. As Bills fans we all want the stadium to open again, but is that a right? we had to make some adjustments to be sure but no one has permanently lost their rights under the Constitution. Saying you have no right to choose to cover your face or not. My wife has a hairdresser who has a gum disease now because she has to wear them to bring in an income. She is a single mom and that is seeing a doctor about it. Money out of her pocket and the dr said the only way to stop it is to wear her mask less often. But she cant even if the one other person in her chair says it is ok BECAUSE NY GIVES HER NO CHOICE! You have no right to go to church when we give the right to protest by looting and rioting. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted October 17, 2020 Share Posted October 17, 2020 1 minute ago, fansince88 said: Saying you have no right to choose to cover your face or not. My wife has a hairdresser who has a gum disease now because she has to wear them to bring in an income. She is a single mom and that is seeing a doctor about it. Money out of her pocket and the dr said the only way to stop it is to wear her mask less often. But she cant even if the one other person in her chair says it is ok BECAUSE NY GIVES HER NO CHOICE! You have no right to go to church when we give the right to protest by looting and rioting. ...that is difficult and hopefully an isolated case.....perhaps a shield is equally protective yet not a contributor to her gum disease.....hopefully she considers OTC gum disease deterrents like Sensodyne or Parodontax to help her condition...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted October 17, 2020 Share Posted October 17, 2020 8 minutes ago, fansince88 said: Saying you have no right to choose to cover your face or not. My wife has a hairdresser who has a gum disease now because she has to wear them to bring in an income. She is a single mom and that is seeing a doctor about it. Money out of her pocket and the dr said the only way to stop it is to wear her mask less often. But she cant even if the one other person in her chair says it is ok BECAUSE NY GIVES HER NO CHOICE! You have no right to go to church when we give the right to protest by looting and rioting. I go to church every week. I agree with peaceful protests and disavow looting and rioting by any group, left or right wing (and there have been both). And I’m sorry for your ex’s hairdresser but as one who teaches anatomy and physiology I am unclear how a mask would cause periodontal disease. Regardless, telling folks they have to wear a mask at work during a pandemic is not a violation of some inherent right, it is a condition of employment. 8 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said: ...that is difficult and hopefully an isolated case.....perhaps a shield is equally protective yet not a contributor to her gum disease.....hopefully she considers OTC gum disease deterrents like Sensodyne or Parodontax to help her condition...... Well stated my friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted October 17, 2020 Share Posted October 17, 2020 1 minute ago, oldmanfan said: I go to church every week. I agree with peaceful protests and disavow looting and rioting by any group, left or right wing (and there have been both). And I’m sorry for your ex’s hairdresser but as one who teaches anatomy and physiology I am unclear how a mask would cause periodontal disease. Regardless, telling folks they have to wear a mask at work during a pandemic is not a violation of some inherent right, it is a condition of employment. ..have to agree my friend......perhaps a developing gingivitis condition that the dentist blew in early detection, but now having the convenience (COUGH) of the "COVID-19 CARD"??...you're our scientist so I'm just layperson babbling.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted October 17, 2020 Share Posted October 17, 2020 8 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said: ..have to agree my friend......perhaps a developing gingivitis condition that the dentist blew in early detection, but now having the convenience (COUGH) of the "COVID-19 CARD"??...you're our scientist so I'm just layperson babbling.... Yeah I actually started as a dental student before switching to grad school. Gum disease is usually due to poor oral hygiene. Not sure how a mask would exacerbate that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spartacus Posted October 17, 2020 Share Posted October 17, 2020 1 hour ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said: ...IMO, the majority of the general public does not know that or even what it means.....besides, they're bombarded with so damn many "do's and don't's" that they don't know what to believe.....at the same time, the visual of people wearing masks serves as a security blanket with people a bit more confident about going out in public....without that, how many MORE would stay confined, damaging the economy even worse.....enough businesses are closing putting more employees out of work now....why not just be prudent, "go with the flow" and wear a mask in public versus being combative and defiant?......how many people have already been killed over mask arguments?.................. you are correct, the public has no idea how a mask is helping they have no ability to evaluate what they are being told is complete bull hockey- even when Fauci himself lauged at masks better to understand there are treatments available and things you can do to enhance your immune system that would actually improve your odds of recovering why spend all of your intellilect on defending hiding behind a mask that won't protect you why is the media not promoting the treatments? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reality Check Posted October 17, 2020 Share Posted October 17, 2020 1 hour ago, oldmanfan said: Yeah I actually started as a dental student before switching to grad school. Gum disease is usually due to poor oral hygiene. Not sure how a mask would exacerbate that. Pretend for a moment that viruses aren't the only microbial that can and will cause damage to your respiratory systems. When you exhale, fungus and bacteria will collect inside your mask, and with enhance relative humidity and CO2 levels, your respiratory system and mouth (including your gums) is ripe for inflammation. If you are eating crappy foods loaded with sugar, these particular microbial colonies thrive in such a situation. There is nothing normal about wearing such a Petri dish over your mouth for hours on end. It has it's own risks that you will never know about, or much less understand, if Dr. Fauci doesn't come on TV and tell you. Try wearing a motorcycle helmet all day with the visor down, and all of your problems will be mitigated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted October 17, 2020 Share Posted October 17, 2020 38 minutes ago, Reality Check said: Pretend for a moment that viruses aren't the only microbial that can and will cause damage to your respiratory systems. When you exhale, fungus and bacteria will collect inside your mask, and with enhance relative humidity and CO2 levels, your respiratory system and mouth (including your gums) is ripe for inflammation. If you are eating crappy foods loaded with sugar, these particular microbial colonies thrive in such a situation. There is nothing normal about wearing such a Petri dish over your mouth for hours on end. It has it's own risks that you will never know about, or much less understand, if Dr. Fauci doesn't come on TV and tell you. Try wearing a motorcycle helmet all day with the visor down, and all of your problems will be mitigated. Dude, I have my doctorate, been doing research and clinical work for 40 years, and I think I can be pretty sure I have a firmer grasp of science than you. I am more than capable of formulating opinions without the benefit of Dr. Fauci, although why folks like you continue to ignore the advice of the pre-eminent authority on infectious disease remains insane. Gum or periodontal disease generally comes from poor oral hygiene. Wearing a mask, even if it does hold in bacteria or fungi as you believe, does not mean you cannot brush your teeth and floss. Those are the ways you prevent gingivitis. I would be very interested to know the particular disease thus individual has. I am trying to figure out how a situation such as you think happened would result in a localized gingival issue and not a more systemic issue. 2 hours ago, spartacus said: you are correct, the public has no idea how a mask is helping they have no ability to evaluate what they are being told is complete bull hockey- even when Fauci himself lauged at masks better to understand there are treatments available and things you can do to enhance your immune system that would actually improve your odds of recovering why spend all of your intellilect on defending hiding behind a mask that won't protect you why is the media not promoting the treatments? They should. I don’t think anyone would argue against better overall health in facing down Covid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warcodered Posted October 17, 2020 Share Posted October 17, 2020 3 hours ago, fansince88 said: Saying you have no right to choose to cover your face or not. I mean it's not like there aren't laws that say you can't walk around naked already. This just seems like such a crazy hill to literally die on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo_Gal Posted October 17, 2020 Share Posted October 17, 2020 3 hours ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said: ...that is difficult and hopefully an isolated case.....perhaps a shield is equally protective yet not a contributor to her gum disease.....hopefully she considers OTC gum disease deterrents like Sensodyne or Parodontax to help her condition...... They are supposed to wear a shield in addition to a mask. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spartacus Posted October 17, 2020 Share Posted October 17, 2020 54 minutes ago, Buffalo_Gal said: They are supposed to wear a shield in addition to a mask. they should because the mask is not stopping the virus 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reality Check Posted October 17, 2020 Share Posted October 17, 2020 1 hour ago, oldmanfan said: Dude, I have my doctorate, been doing research and clinical work for 40 years, and I think I can be pretty sure I have a firmer grasp of science than you. I am more than capable of formulating opinions without the benefit of Dr. Fauci, although why folks like you continue to ignore the advice of the pre-eminent authority on infectious disease remains insane. Gum or periodontal disease generally comes from poor oral hygiene. Wearing a mask, even if it does hold in bacteria or fungi as you believe, does not mean you cannot brush your teeth and floss. Those are the ways you prevent gingivitis. I would be very interested to know the particular disease thus individual has. I am trying to figure out how a situation such as you think happened would result in a localized gingival issue and not a more systemic issue. They should. I don’t think anyone would argue against better overall health in facing down Covid. Congratulations on getting your doctorate. Some of them make great employees. However, your knowledge of microbiology is imperceptible. Carry on... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Deek Posted October 17, 2020 Share Posted October 17, 2020 (edited) Once again the conversation devolves into the effectiveness of masks. But I put it to all of you that that’s NOT the appropriate discussion. It may have been in March, but it’s almost November people! The stock room has been resupplied. The treatments are now developed. The vulnerable demographic is now known. Today’s discussion is about whether we’d be better off reaching some amount a Covid saturation so this thing will pass thru more quickly. I wear my mask because society is telling everyone it’s expected and because I can’t buy food without it! But I honestly think we’d be better off to get on with it....and put this chapter behind us. Edited October 17, 2020 by SoCal Deek 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fansince88 Posted October 17, 2020 Share Posted October 17, 2020 6 hours ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said: ...that is difficult and hopefully an isolated case.....perhaps a shield is equally protective yet not a contributor to her gum disease.....hopefully she considers OTC gum disease deterrents like Sensodyne or Parodontax to help her condition...... Nope. Not so isolated. But go ahead. Keep making excuses. I will, well, follow the doctors. https://nypost.com/2020/08/05/mask-mouth-is-a-seriously-stinky-side-effect-of-wearing-masks/ 3 hours ago, Warcodered said: I mean it's not like there aren't laws that say you can't walk around naked already. This just seems like such a crazy hill to literally die on. Great job picking a small piece of the statement and making a point. Climb that hill alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fansince88 Posted October 17, 2020 Share Posted October 17, 2020 6 hours ago, oldmanfan said: I go to church every week. I agree with peaceful protests and disavow looting and rioting by any group, left or right wing (and there have been both). And I’m sorry for your ex’s hairdresser but as one who teaches anatomy and physiology I am unclear how a mask would cause periodontal disease. Regardless, telling folks they have to wear a mask at work during a pandemic is not a violation of some inherent right, it is a condition of employment. Well stated my friend. https://nypost.com/2020/08/05/mask-mouth-is-a-seriously-stinky-side-effect-of-wearing-masks/ Her Dentist is telling her she needs to be open less and wear a mask less. He knows her history and that she never had a problem. you know how he knows that? Because he has seen her for the last 15 years twice a year. You teach what you know. Go out and learn some more instead of saying what you dont know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warcodered Posted October 17, 2020 Share Posted October 17, 2020 1 hour ago, fansince88 said: https://nypost.com/2020/08/05/mask-mouth-is-a-seriously-stinky-side-effect-of-wearing-masks/ Her Dentist is telling her she needs to be open less and wear a mask less. He knows her history and that she never had a problem. you know how he knows that? Because he has seen her for the last 15 years twice a year. You teach what you know. Go out and learn some more instead of saying what you dont know. Quote While masks are not negotiable given the times, Sclafani says there are things wearers can do to avoid their grossest side effect: drink more water, cut down on caffeine, snag a humidifier (to “help moisten the air”), use an alcohol-free mouthwash, scrape your tongue and don’t smoke. And If all else fails? “Just breathe through your nose!” Seems like their might be some solutions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bakin Posted October 17, 2020 Share Posted October 17, 2020 9 hours ago, oldmanfan said: It is not just a bad flu. The mortality rate is 5-10 times higher, there is no vaccine, and it can be spread by asymptomatic infected persons. Sweden’s trial is proving to be mistaken; their per capita mortality rate is much higher than other European countries. I’ve already addressed your misconceptions about the study you cite. The idea of masks is to hold down spread of droplets by the wearer. That has always been a consistent position. What the CDC Director is saying is that if we ALL wear masks right now it would be more effective than a vaccine. Yoyr approach would kill a lot of people. How many American citizens do you think are expendable? Give me a number. Or maybe the thing to do, since the elderly are more affected, is to pick an age and anyone over that age should just be humanely sacrificed now. What age would you select? Yeah. That’s a bad flu. By the end of it, IFR might turn out to be closer to 2X seasonal flu. So bloody what. Worth destroying the world Over? Sweden was right. Their deaths per 100k is less than Italy, Spain, UK, Belgium. All countries that have undergone extreme lockdown. Not to mention are seeing rising second spikes in deaths (Sweden is not). I guess from your virtue signalling you want to outlaw dying forever. How impoverished does the world have to get to protect our senior citizens? Why do you treat old people like children? Don’t you know they can make the decision for themselves how much risk they want to take? Why should healthy populations be locked down and forced to undergo rigorous psychological revaluations of lifestyle. To protect a bunch of geezers? Please. This has never been done before in history and it will not end well. thanks China! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted October 17, 2020 Share Posted October 17, 2020 11 minutes ago, Bakin said: Yeah. That’s a bad flu. By the end of it, IFR might turn out to be closer to 2X seasonal flu. So bloody what. Worth destroying the world Over? Sweden was right. Their deaths per 100k is less than Italy, Spain, UK, Belgium. All countries that have undergone extreme lockdown. Not to mention are seeing rising second spikes in deaths (Sweden is not). I guess from your virtue signalling you want to outlaw dying forever. How impoverished does the world have to get to protect our senior citizens? Why do you treat old people like children? Don’t you know they can make the decision for themselves how much risk they want to take? Why should healthy populations be locked down and forced to undergo rigorous psychological revaluations of lifestyle. To protect a bunch of geezers? Please. This has never been done before in history and it will not end well. thanks China! So old people have no value. That’s nice. Tell you parents or grandparents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bakin Posted October 17, 2020 Share Posted October 17, 2020 3 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: So old people have no value. That’s nice. Tell you parents or grandparents. Who says they don’t have value? I treat older people like the elders they are. With respect. I don’t tell them what to do. They do what they want. My parents are in their 70s. Quite healthy. They are free to be as cautious or as flippant as they choose. I guess you must really value old people. Like soooo much? Enough that you don’t visit any of them? Or if you are one, do you wear a space suit when someone younger than you appears in your vaunted presence? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted October 17, 2020 Share Posted October 17, 2020 22 minutes ago, Bakin said: Who says they don’t have value? I treat older people like the elders they are. With respect. I don’t tell them what to do. They do what they want. My parents are in their 70s. Quite healthy. They are free to be as cautious or as flippant as they choose. I guess you must really value old people. Like soooo much? Enough that you don’t visit any of them? Or if you are one, do you wear a space suit when someone younger than you appears in your vaunted presence? I am one of the older people and I have patients I see every day. I wear a mask to protect them and they wear masks to protect me. I teach college students every week and we do the same for each other. You used the phrase protect a bunch of geezers. I’m sure your parents are happy to be thought of that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SDS Posted October 17, 2020 Share Posted October 17, 2020 Trigger has spoken. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoTier Posted October 18, 2020 Share Posted October 18, 2020 2 hours ago, fansince88 said: Nope. Not so isolated. But go ahead. Keep making excuses. I will, well, follow the doctors. https://nypost.com/2020/08/05/mask-mouth-is-a-seriously-stinky-side-effect-of-wearing-masks/ Great job picking a small piece of the statement and making a point. Climb that hill alone. I smell a rat in this story that your wife's hairdresser is telling and in the claims of the dentist in the news story, Rob Raimondi. That story was published in early August, less than 4 months after Cuomo issued his mask mandate. Hair salons in most of NY only opened in May, and in NYC only in late June. Raimondi operates in Manhattan (I looked him up) so he'd be seeing patients from within NYC. Gum disease isn't a problem that develops over a few weeks but over months or more commonly, years, of poor oral hygiene. Wearing masks may very well exacerbate existing gum problems but it's not likely to have caused the problem within weeks or months in people who didn't have gum disease to begin with. Moreover, I'm suspicious of this claim because health care workers have been wearing masks for hours at a time for decades without having noticeable gum problems, but this "problem" suddenly surfaces within months of the governor issuing a mask mandate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spartacus Posted October 18, 2020 Share Posted October 18, 2020 1 hour ago, Bakin said: Yeah. That’s a bad flu. By the end of it, IFR might turn out to be closer to 2X seasonal flu. So bloody what. Worth destroying the world Over? Sweden was right. Their deaths per 100k is less than Italy, Spain, UK, Belgium. All countries that have undergone extreme lockdown. Not to mention are seeing rising second spikes in deaths (Sweden is not). I guess from your virtue signalling you want to outlaw dying forever. How impoverished does the world have to get to protect our senior citizens? Why do you treat old people like children? Don’t you know they can make the decision for themselves how much risk they want to take? Why should healthy populations be locked down and forced to undergo rigorous psychological revaluations of lifestyle. To protect a bunch of geezers? Please. This has never been done before in history and it will not end well. thanks China! per CDC, 2020 total deaths consistent with prior 3 years what happened to the 200k of "Covid" coded deaths? seems a whole lot of other deaths have been coded as "covid" deaths due to financials incentives to do so 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bakin Posted October 18, 2020 Share Posted October 18, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, oldmanfan said: I am one of the older people and I have patients I see every day. I wear a mask to protect them and they wear masks to protect me. I teach college students every week and we do the same for each other. You used the phrase protect a bunch of geezers. I’m sure your parents are happy to be thought of that way. They are geezers and so are you. Welcome to your golden years. Hide in your basement if you see fit. No one is stopping you. Don’t advocate the destruction of the world to protect your generation. 1 hour ago, spartacus said: per CDC, 2020 total deaths consistent with prior 3 years what happened to the 200k of "Covid" coded deaths? seems a whole lot of other deaths have been coded as "covid" deaths due to financials incentives to do so Do you have a link to those numbers? I was under the impression that excess deaths were higher year over year. Maybe 10% but certainly not enough for us to DESTROY THE ENTIRE GLOBAL ECONOMY.... In addition, the pro lockdown pro mask pandemistas will tell you “imagine how bad it would have been had we not DESTROYED THE ENTIRE WORLD ECONOMY!!!” just wait for it. One word: Sweden. Edited October 18, 2020 by Bakin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo_Gal Posted October 18, 2020 Share Posted October 18, 2020 7 hours ago, spartacus said: they should because the mask is not stopping the virus Someone needs to tell Cuomo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bakin Posted October 18, 2020 Share Posted October 18, 2020 12 hours ago, oldmanfan said: That study with the 80% is being misconstrued. What it really showed is those in restaurants and bars/coffee shops where you have to take your mask off had higher infection rates. I agree on the NYS data; that has always been puzzling. No. Absolutely no. If what you are saying is to forego masks the infection and mortality rates would skyrocket. You don’t really want that, do you? Sweden? Hello...Sweden??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
realtruelove Posted October 18, 2020 Share Posted October 18, 2020 51 minutes ago, Bakin said: Sweden? Hello...Sweden??? That would be logical and obvious but it's easier just to ignore it and maybe it will go away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted October 18, 2020 Share Posted October 18, 2020 (edited) 7 hours ago, Bakin said: Sweden? Hello...Sweden??? Sweden: 5th highest death rate in the world 2nd to the US in slowing down of death rate since the pandemic hit infection rate climbing again after slowdown in the summer Not completely open in that restrictions on numbers that can group are in place Its citizens voluntarily did things like distanced and quarantined when sick, because unlike the US they are willing to work together Economic impact has been similar to that of other European countries despite not locking down Attempt to get herd immunity; estimated 10% in Sweden have Covid antibody but you need around 70% for herd immunity - how many more will get sick and die as they continue their approach? Deaths affected many elderly in nursing homes, so geezers died which should make you happy Check out the Oct 6th article in Science. Goes into great detail on how infection and mortality rates in Sweden may be underestimated because sick patients weren’t allowed access to hospitals, among other things. Edited October 18, 2020 by oldmanfan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoshin Posted October 18, 2020 Share Posted October 18, 2020 (edited) 10 hours ago, spartacus said: per CDC, 2020 total deaths consistent with prior 3 years what happened to the 200k of "Covid" coded deaths? seems a whole lot of other deaths have been coded as "covid" deaths due to financials incentives to do so simply not true. Like when you asserted that standards for pcr tests changed but they didn't, deaths for all causes are up. I've linked the CDC data upthread when you posted this earlier and you ignored it and here is more data for both Europe and the US. https://ourworldindata.org/excess-mortality-covid Excess deaths is no reason to panic but can we stop with the nonsense that nothing is happening. You are a consistent source of misleading data. Edited October 18, 2020 by shoshin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Deek Posted October 18, 2020 Share Posted October 18, 2020 (edited) A while back somebody on here quoted the definition of a pandemic and in doing so showed that Covid 19 no longer qualifies as one. Is that still true? I’ll say it again here, for a country as large as the United States this doesn’t feel like a pandemic to me. The roads, stores, and restaurants are all packed! Edited October 18, 2020 by SoCal Deek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted October 18, 2020 Share Posted October 18, 2020 29 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said: A while back somebody on here quoted the definition of a pandemic and in doing so showed that Covid 19 no longer qualifies as one. Is that still true? I’ll say it again here, for a country as large as the United States this doesn’t feel like a pandemic to me. The roads, stores, and restaurants are all packed! A pandemic definition includes a disease that occurs in multiple countries and in large numbers of people. So Covid qualifies. What I will continue to say is that we can do things in public like shopping, etc. but just do so safely. Wear masks if close together, do things outside in smaller groups, wash your hands. Yesterday I went to a bar with a friend and had a couple beers, wore our masks in and out and the bar had seating that separated folks. Went to work this morning and I and my patient had on masks. Going into church right now; seats are spread out more and we all will disinfect our hands on the way in and wear masks. And some will join us on line. We are basically being asked to do three things. Why we all cannot or will not do that is simply mind boggling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bakin Posted October 18, 2020 Share Posted October 18, 2020 4 hours ago, oldmanfan said: Sweden: 5th highest death rate in the world 2nd to the US in slowing down of death rate since the pandemic hit infection rate climbing again after slowdown in the summer Not completely open in that restrictions on numbers that can group are in place Its citizens voluntarily did things like distanced and quarantined when sick, because unlike the US they are willing to work together Economic impact has been similar to that of other European countries despite not locking down Attempt to get herd immunity; estimated 10% in Sweden have Covid antibody but you need around 70% for herd immunity - how many more will get sick and die as they continue their approach? Deaths affected many elderly in nursing homes, so geezers died which should make you happy Check out the Oct 6th article in Science. Goes into great detail on how infection and mortality rates in Sweden may be underestimated because sick patients weren’t allowed access to hospitals, among other things. Yeah you say that but provide no data to back it up. Sweden DOES NOT have the 5th highest death rate in the world. https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/data/mortality Eliminate small country outliers and they are 14th. and they did this by making the error of not protecting their elderly... BUT they had no lockdown, no masks. Shouldn’t their infection and mortality have ‘exploded’ as you put it? It should be much higher than every other country that had lockdowns and masks, right amirite? cuz lockdowns and masks WORK, right? How about today? What’s happening RIGHT NOW in Sweden? No masks no lockdowns limited social distancing - VIRTUALLY NO DEATHS. HOW IS THAT POSSIBLE? Shouldn’t the virus be exploding with infection and mortality everywhere? yes I read the article. Everything may be this or may be that. I would argue that if you read the ‘dry tinder’ argument put forth by several researchers ... that’s a much better explanation as to why some places have excess deaths and others don’t. yes - you geezers are technically the dry tinder. this is just another ILI, one of 200 respiratory infections that we will have to deal with. Forever. 99.96% survival rate. Or, as some of you male Karen’s prefer - let’s just destroy the world to hide from it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted October 18, 2020 Share Posted October 18, 2020 4 hours ago, oldmanfan said: Sweden: 5th highest death rate in the world 2nd to the US in slowing down of death rate since the pandemic hit infection rate climbing again after slowdown in the summer Not completely open in that restrictions on numbers that can group are in place Its citizens voluntarily did things like distanced and quarantined when sick, because unlike the US they are willing to work together Economic impact has been similar to that of other European countries despite not locking down Attempt to get herd immunity; estimated 10% in Sweden have Covid antibody but you need around 70% for herd immunity - how many more will get sick and die as they continue their approach? Deaths affected many elderly in nursing homes, so geezers died which should make you happy Check out the Oct 6th article in Science. Goes into great detail on how infection and mortality rates in Sweden may be underestimated because sick patients weren’t allowed access to hospitals, among other things. ...good job Doc......"just keep matriculating these posters back to the sidelines".............👍 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted October 18, 2020 Share Posted October 18, 2020 4 minutes ago, Bakin said: Yeah you say that but provide no data to back it up. Sweden DOES NOT have the 5th highest death rate in the world. https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/data/mortality Eliminate small country outliers and they are 14th. and they did this by making the error of not protecting their elderly... BUT they had no lockdown, no masks. Shouldn’t their infection and mortality have ‘exploded’ as you put it? It should be much higher than every other country that had lockdowns and masks, right amirite? cuz lockdowns and masks WORK, right? How about today? What’s happening RIGHT NOW in Sweden? No masks no lockdowns limited social distancing - VIRTUALLY NO DEATHS. HOW IS THAT POSSIBLE? Shouldn’t the virus be exploding with infection and mortality everywhere? yes I read the article. Everything may be this or may be that. I would argue that if you read the ‘dry tinder’ argument put forth by several researchers ... that’s a much better explanation as to why some places have excess deaths and others don’t. yes - you geezers are technically the dry tinder. this is just another ILI, one of 200 respiratory infections that we will have to deal with. Forever. 99.96% survival rate. Or, as some of you male Karen’s prefer - let’s just destroy the world to hide from it. So you have to eliminate data to make your argument. Perfect. Their mortality and infection rates are higher than most every country. That is fact. Spare me the gratuitous Karen insults. We can do things to mitigate spread and still be out doing the things we want to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted October 18, 2020 Share Posted October 18, 2020 Just now, oldmanfan said: So you have to eliminate data to make your argument. Perfect. Their mortality and infection rates are higher than most every country. That is fact. Spare me the gratuitous Karen insults. We can do things to mitigate spread and still be out doing the things we want to do. ...we call that "convenient omission"............. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts