The Next Pandemic: SARS-CoV-2/COVID-19

[3rdnlng]

1 hour ago, TPS said:

Then there's this, which my detractors here won't like....https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2020/04/inside-trumps-decision-to-back-off-of-his-easter-coronavirus-miracle

It took him awhile to figure out leading on this would overcome the economy tanking...

Trump’s latest tonal and tactical shift (and almost certainly not the last) was driven by several factors, both personal and political. Trump learned that his close friend, 78-year-old New York real estate mogul Stan Chera, had contracted COVID-19 and fallen into a coma at NewYork-Presbyterian. “Boy, did that hit home. Stan is like one of his best friends,” said prominent New York Trump donor Bill White. Trump also grew concerned as the virus spread to Trump country. “The polling sucked. The campaign panicked about the numbers in red states. They don’t expect to win states that are getting blown to pieces with coronavirus,” a former West Wing official told me. From the beginning of the crisis, Trump had struggled to see it as anything other than a political problem, subject to his usual arsenal of tweets and attacks and bombast. But he ultimately realized that as bad as the stock market was, getting coronavirus wrong would end his presidency. “The campaign doesn’t matter anymore,” he recently told a friend, “what I do now will determine if I get reelected.”

 

"A former West Wing official told me." Sounds like that came right out of the DNC.  This is nothing but pure political speculation.

[Doc]

16 minutes ago, ScotSHO said:

And then we can mark them so we all know they are acceptable humans.  And the rest can be stored somewhere.

 

Yes.  Tattoo them on their forehead with a "C."

[RochesterRob]

5 minutes ago, meazza said:

 

Anything being developed now can take months.

  I'm hearing 12-18 months right now.

[Warren Zevon]

4 minutes ago, ScotSHO said:

 

Not being ig-nant, but I want to know what happens to subject A who "passes" this test and has lot of magical antibodies, vs subject B who fails this test and does not has sufficient antibodies to go outside of their house.

 

What happens if subject B want to go sit on a park bench, or heaven forbid wants to get a job and make money to support their beanie baby collection?  I believe the powers that be will say they should be shunned for 18 months until there is an approved vaccination, correct?  And in the meantime, we will track their whereabouts, you know just to be safe.

 

Your question requires mostly assumption but I would assume subject B would be living like all subjects are right now - they are free to sit on a park bench and free to work. Just stay 6 feet away from whoever else in the park and work in an essential or from home job.

Edited April 2, 2020 by Gary Busey

[shoshin]

7 minutes ago, ScotSHO said:

 

Not being ig-nant, but I want to know what happens to subject A who "passes" this test and has lot of magical antibodies, vs subject B who fails this test and does not has sufficient antibodies to go outside of their house.

 

What happens if subject B want to go sit on a park bench, or heaven forbid wants to get a job and make money to support their beanie baby collection?  I believe the powers that be will say they should be shunned for 18 months until there is an approved vaccination, correct?  And in the meantime, we will track their whereabouts, you know just to be safe.

 

Where are you getting this dystopian dreamland from? The same place as thinking that an antibody test was magical 3 posts ago?

 

In June, we all can hopefully attempt to get back to work, except for certain obvious jobs. People who can still work from home and maybe older or at risk people don't, but the rest of us who can, return. 

 

The rapid antibody testing, if very widespread, identifies outbreaks EARLY so we can isolate those people who are positive early and isolate their contacts perhaps before they are contagious and get tested themselves. This is how you prevent more outbreaks and yet another way that testing saves lives. 

 

 

3 minutes ago, RochesterRob said:

  I'm hearing 12-18 months right now.

 

That's vaccine and that's still pretty damn optimistic at 18 months. Fingers crossed that some of the treatments show promise to shorten the length and severity of symptoms. The most easy to produce would be the anti-malarial combinations. 

Edited April 2, 2020 by shoshin

[GG]

38 minutes ago, Gary Busey said:

 

Your obvious point is obvious but many people who spread the disease are asymptomatic

 

Which gets back to the main point of the effectiveness of testing vs practicing good hygiene in stemming the spread.  How do you test asymptomatic people?   Do you mandate that every citizen take a test once a week?  Or do you hammer away at cleanliness?  Why did CDC reverse its position on masks?

[RochesterRob]

4 minutes ago, Gary Busey said:

 

Indeed - which is why people are rightfully upset the government dragged their feet throughout January and February.

  That same government which was running a sham impeachment?  The leaders of which who could have been working on legislation relative to Corona virus to be approved by the Senate and then the President?  That government?

[Warren Zevon]

Just now, RochesterRob said:

  That same government which was running a sham impeachment?  The leaders of which who could have been working on legislation relative to Corona virus to be approved by the Senate and then the President?  That government?

 

Yep - that government. 

[123719bwiqrb]

1 minute ago, shoshin said:

 

The rapid antibody testing, if very widespread, identifies outbreaks EARLY so we can isolate those people who are positive early and isolate their contacts perhaps before they are contagious and get tested themselves. This is how you prevent more outbreaks. 

 

 

You're mixing up the tests.  The antibody testing will not identify outbreaks - it will show if you will fight off the virus again or not.  The virus test in use right now will show if you are carrying the virus.

 

Again, in my fantasy dystopian vision that will obviously never ever happen, like ever, how would we enforce this?

 

[shoshin]

5 minutes ago, GG said:

 

Which gets back to the main point of the effectiveness of testing vs practicing good hygiene in stemming the spread.  How do you test asymptomatic people?   Do you mandate that every citizen take a test once a week?  Or do you hammer away at cleanliness?  Why did CDC reverse its position on masks?

 

You keep saying this like we have a binary choice between distancing/hygiene vs testing to prevent the spread.

 

It's not binary. We need both, and more steps, to prevent more deaths.  

Edited April 2, 2020 by shoshin

[\GoBillsInDallas/]

"You can help people but you need to get one of our City's expensive and time-consuming permits to do so"

[shoshin]

4 minutes ago, ScotSHO said:

Again, in my fantasy dystopian vision that will obviously never ever happen, like ever, how would we enforce this?

 

 

Set up the system, come up with the plan, (neither are that hard) and hopefully most sensible people will abide by it. 

 

Of course many won't because they want to party on the beach or plant their right to privacy flag on mass graves, but if enough do, we can control it.  

[GG]

4 minutes ago, shoshin said:

 

You keep saying this like we have a binary choice between distancing/hygiene vs testing to prevent the spread.

 

It's not binary. We need both, and more steps, to prevent more deaths.  

 

I've never argued that we don't need both.  I argued that too many people focused on the lack of testing as the primary reason for the rapid spread, instead of hammering away at keeping proper hygiene.   Cleanliness and separation would have been far more effective, especially with a novel virus for which the tests didn't exist.  It only took the officials 2 months to start constantly preaching it.

[123719bwiqrb]

1 minute ago, shoshin said:

 

Set up the system, come up with the plan, (neither are that hard) and hopefully most sensible people will abide by it. 

 

Of course many won't because they want to party on the beach or plant their right to privacy flag on mass graves, but if enough do, we can control it.  

 

And there it is.  Privacy people vs sensible people.  I would argue that the sensible people are the ones that want privacy, but that is crazy talk online.

 

This just in too - you can carry the virus, yet have the antibodies too.  What you say!  So take both tests, what daily?  And if you fail one of them, what do we do?  Are we on the honor system?  No that won't work.  It would have to have teeth behind it to actually work.

 

So we land on the personal freedoms question, and for that ideal many have died over the 240+ years that this little USA experiment has been happening.

[Gary M]

39 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

Yes.  Tattoo them on their forehead with a "C."

 

I suggest a gold star.

[CarpetCrawler]

35 minutes ago, ScotSHO said:

You're mixing up the tests.  The antibody testing will not identify outbreaks - it will show if you will fight off the virus again or not.  The virus test in use right now will show if you are carrying the virus.

 

Again, in my fantasy dystopian vision that will obviously never ever happen, like ever, how would we enforce this?

 

If you're in the more government is good crowd, you can do like Germany and test everyone who had COVID for antibodies and issue them certificates if they do so that they can go back to work. (and restrict those who don't)

Edited April 2, 2020 by CarpetCrawler

[123719bwiqrb]

5 minutes ago, CarpetCrawler said:

If you're in the more government is good crowd, you can do like Germany and test everyone who had COVID for antibodies and issue them certificates if they do so that they can go back to work. (and restrict those who don't)

I would have never thought Germany would ever institute such a solution.

[Tiberius]

On Wednesday, Trump explained how his thinking on covid-19 had changed. “The severity,” Trump said. “I think also in looking at the way that the contagion is so contagious, nobody’s ever seen anything like this where large groups of people all of a sudden have it just by being in the presence of somebody who has it. The flu has never been like that. . . . Also the violence of it if it hits the right person.”

?

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/04/02/trump-is-always-last-figure-it-out/

Quote

Illinois Gov. J.B. Pritzker answer to the administration’s refusal to reopen the exchanges. “Frankly, this is leadership malpractice,” Pritzker said. “Now more than ever, we need as many people as possible to have access to health care to seek out testing, if we’re ever going to be able to fight covid-19 and eliminate it as a major risk to our people.” He added, “On that same note, the Trump administration’s continued pursuit of a legal case to destroy the Affordable Care Act, which has provided health care to tens of millions of Americans is a special insult to the people of this nation at this moment. To seek to kill the ACA at a time like this, not to mention ever, undermines everything that we’re trying to do to keep people safe.”

 

[Magox]

While I agree that they should waive all requirements for ACA enrollments outside of open enrollment this argument is a red herring.  

 

If people lose their health insurance due to the job losses, then they qualify for an SEP insurance enrollment in the marketplace outside of open enrollment.

 

So, just to reiterate, if people have lost their health insurance because of the CoronaVirus or for any other other reason over the past 60 days, then they can qualify for SEP Special Enrollment Period through the ACA.

 

 

[Buffalo_Gal]

Given that 7,800 people died daily in the United States in 2018 (I could not find the numbers for 2019), the look-back numbers on this will be interesting. Will the number of people dying daily increase in 2020? Or will it be a matter of instead of dying from A, that person is dying from B?  NYC apparently is pulling an Italy and anyone that has the disease is being labeled as dying from the virus, even if they actually died from a heart attack or some other per-existing condition (maybe assuming the per-existing condition exacerbated that condition?)  

[B-Man]

When Can Life Return to Normal?  4 Signs to Monitor

by Peter Brookes

 

Original Article

 

Americans can’t wait for the restrictions on their movements and interactions—widely known as social distancing—to end. That’s completely understandable. The coronavirus crisis has widely disrupted modern life. But as we learned Sunday, the Trump administration’s commonsense “stop the spread” increased mitigation strategy is with us for a while—at least till the end of April. Based on the challenges we’re facing, this is a prudent decision. While a firm date for the end of this biological battle in the United States is just unknowable at this point, it’s reasonable to ask: How will we know when we’re seeing some light at the end of the social distancing tunnel?

 

More at the link.

 

 

.

[Gary M]

Just now, Buffalo_Gal said:

Given that 7,800 people died daily in the United States in 2018 (I could not find the numbers for 2019), the look-back numbers on this will be interesting. Will the number of people dying daily increase in 2020? Or will it be a matter of instead of dying from A, that person is dying from B?  NYC apparently is pulling an Italy and anyone that has the disease is being labeled as dying from the virus, even if they actually died from a heart attack or some other per-existing condition (maybe assuming the per-existing condition exacerbated that condition?)  

 

The 2021 numbers will be even more telling, as this picks on ailing people. we should see a decrease in the following year(s)

[Buffalo_Gal]

Just now, Gary M said:

 

The 2021 numbers will be even more telling, as this picks on ailing people. we should see a decrease in the following year(s)

I wonder if deaths from vehicle will be down since less people are driving?

 

[B-Man]

 

 

Lakewood police break up funeral with 60-70 people, issue 15 summonses for coronavirus lockdown violations

by Anthony G. Attrino

Original Article

 

Police in Ocean County on Wednesday night broke up a funeral in Lakewood and issued summonses to 15 people – including a 100-year-old man – accusing them of violating the state’s ban on public gatherings during the coronavirus pandemic, authorities said. The funeral marked the fourth consecutive day police have been called to gatherings in Lakewood in violation of the emergency order set in place in March to slow the spread of the coronavirus. Previous incidents have included a bar mitzvah, an engagement party and a religious school for adults that continued to operate.

 

 

.

[Warren Zevon]

 

[IDBillzFan]

Just now, Buffalo_Gal said:

Given that 7,800 people died daily in the United States in 2018 (I could not find the numbers for 2019), the look-back numbers on this will be interesting. Will the number of people dying daily increase in 2020? Or will it be a matter of instead of dying from A, that person is dying from B?  NYC apparently is pulling an Italy and anyone that has the disease is being labeled as dying from the virus, even if they actually died from a heart attack or some other per-existing condition (maybe assuming the per-existing condition exacerbated that condition?)  

 

I think you are correct with your last point: if you were already sick, but stable, and then got the virus and died from complications, that becomes a Covid death, which I think makes sense.

 

Frankly I desperately wish media would chill every time a new number comes up. But, unfortunately, y'know, the boys in the newsroom got a running bet.

[Buffalo Bills Fan]

 

Here's why the coronavirus may be killing more men than women. The US should take note

By Katie Polglase, Gianluca Mezzofiore and Max Foster, CNN

Updated 5:32 PM ET, Tue March 24, 2020

 

(CNN)Smoking, drinking, general poor health: Researchers say these are some of the factors that could explain why more men seem to be dying from coronavirus than women.

In countries such as Italy, men represent nearly 60% of people who tested positive for the virus and more than 70% of those who have died, according to the country's National Health Institute (ISS). Even in countries like South Korea, where the proportion of women who have tested positive for the virus is higher than that of men, about 54% of the reported deaths are among men.

But while health officials are starting to take note of these staggering numbers, the United States is not releasing the basic nationwide data that is crucial to understanding who is most vulnerable to the virus, according to a CNN analysis.

Dr. Deborah Birx, the White House's coronavirus response coordinator, said at a White House press briefing on Friday: "From Italy we're seeing another concerning trend. That the mortality in males seems to be twice in every age group of females."

 

Every hotspot has 'its own curve': How coronavirus cases are growing around the United States

Regarding this data on Italy, Birx said in an interview with CNN's Wolf Blitzer: "Just having the knowledge of that helps us in the United States so we can be very specific in talking to the American people about who to protect and how to protect them."

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CNN has reached out to Birx for additional comment.

 

When CNN asked the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention for data split by sex for US cases of coronavirus and deaths by coronavirus, known as sex-disaggregated data, the CDC did not respond.

Comprehensive data about those who have gotten sick could help inform more effective responses to the crisis. But public health researchers say that when governments such as the United States either don't collect, or don't publish their data, it's impossible for experts to gain an accurate sense of what's going on.

Data divided by sex

In collaboration with Global Health 50/50, a research institute examining gender inequality in global health, CNN analyzed the publicly available data from 20 countries with the highest number of confirmed cases of Covid-19 at the time of data collection -- March 20.

The aim was to see why men seem to be dying more than women.

 

 

But across the countries for which we have data - spanning nearly a quarter of the world's population - we found that men were 50% more likely than women to die after being diagnosed with Covid-19.

 

 

"When we look at the data what we're seeing is that in every country with sex-disaggregated data ... there is between a 10% and 90% higher rate of mortality amongst people diagnosed with Covid if they are men compared to if they are women," says Sarah Hawkes, professor of global public health at University College London (UCL) and co-director of Global Health 50/50.

 

Just sharing more info. But wouldn't count out risk to girls or for them being safe. More great info in article.  But don't take this for sure.

 

https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/24/health/coronavirus-gender-mortality-intl/index.html

Edited April 2, 2020 by Buffalo Bills Fan

[Warren Zevon]

Careful with the big font - you might get yelled at

[3rdnlng]

8 minutes ago, B-Man said:

 

 

Lakewood police break up funeral with 60-70 people, issue 15 summonses for coronavirus lockdown violations

by Anthony G. Attrino

Original Article

 

Police in Ocean County on Wednesday night broke up a funeral in Lakewood and issued summonses to 15 people – including a 100-year-old man – accusing them of violating the state’s ban on public gatherings during the coronavirus pandemic, authorities said. The funeral marked the fourth consecutive day police have been called to gatherings in Lakewood in violation of the emergency order set in place in March to slow the spread of the coronavirus. Previous incidents have included a bar mitzvah, an engagement party and a religious school for adults that continued to operate.

 

 

.

Have you ever been to Lakewood, NJ? It is highly occupied by Hasidic Jews with dedicated schools and numerous temples.

[Buffalo_Gal]

 

 

[\GoBillsInDallas/]

22 minutes ago, Buffalo Bills Fan said:

Smoking, drinking, general poor health

 

[Buffalo Bills Fan]

3 minutes ago, \GoBillsInDallas/ said:

 

 

Jesus the last guy in picture freaks me out lol.

[shoshin]

1 hour ago, ScotSHO said:

 

And there it is.  Privacy people vs sensible people. 

 

In fact, not what I said. It's sensible vs insensible. The people who comply with tracking will help everyone. The people who won't comply with tracking will not, whether they are just being CV-party-hard ***** or whether they are being right to privacy flag-bearers. Both groups will not help if we need to track down recent contacts after a positive test in a central database. 

 

1 hour ago, ScotSHO said:

This just in too - you can carry the virus, yet have the antibodies too. 

 

You're catching up! It's out there, critical to rapid testing, and not the "magical" test you thought it was.

 

[Deranged Rhino]

1 minute ago, shoshin said:

 

In fact, not what I said. It's sensible vs insensible. The people who comply with tracking will help everyone. The people who won't comply with tracking will not, whether they are just being CV-party-hard ***** or whether they are being right to privacy flag-bearers. Both groups will not help if we need to track down recent contacts after a positive test in a central database. 

Hard pass. Hard. 
 

Privacy isn’t a flag to be waved. It’s an innate civil liberty which has already been under assault. Using this crisis as an excuse to chip away more of it only proves you learned nothing from 2001. Nothing. 
 

You’ll get shooting in the streets before you get the majority of Americans to agree to anything as draconian as what you’re suggesting or what Germany tried. 

[Westside]

4 hours ago, Gary Busey said:

Sometimes the propaganda network brings on the wrong guest 

 

 

Only a idiot would compare South Korea to the United states. Apples to oranges, but I'm sure the good dr knew that.?

[3rdnlng]

9 minutes ago, Buffalo Bills Fan said:

 

https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/24/health/coronavirus-gender-mortality-intl/index.html

Here's why the coronavirus may be killing more men than women. The US should take note

By Katie Polglase, Gianluca Mezzofiore and Max Foster, CNN

Updated 5:32 PM ET, Tue March 24, 2020

 

(CNN)Smoking, drinking, general poor health: Researchers say these are some of the factors that could explain why more men seem to be dying from coronavirus than women.

In countries such as Italy, men represent nearly 60% of people who tested positive for the virus and more than 70% of those who have died, according to the country's National Health Institute (ISS). Even in countries like South Korea, where the proportion of women who have tested positive for the virus is higher than that of men, about 54% of the reported deaths are among men.

But while health officials are starting to take note of these staggering numbers, the United States is not releasing the basic nationwide data that is crucial to understanding who is most vulnerable to the virus, according to a CNN analysis.

Dr. Deborah Birx, the White House's coronavirus response coordinator, said at a White House press briefing on Friday: "From Italy we're seeing another concerning trend. That the mortality in males seems to be twice in every age group of females."

 

Every hotspot has 'its own curve': How coronavirus cases are growing around the United States

Regarding this data on Italy, Birx said in an interview with CNN's Wolf Blitzer: "Just having the knowledge of that helps us in the United States so we can be very specific in talking to the American people about who to protect and how to protect them."

close dialog

Get coronavirus updates delivered to your inbox daily. Accurate information you can trust from CNN.

 

Email Address

Sign Up

No, thanks.

By subscribing, you agree to our Privacy Policy

CNN has reached out to Birx for additional comment.

 

When CNN asked the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention for data split by sex for US cases of coronavirus and deaths by coronavirus, known as sex-disaggregated data, the CDC did not respond.

Comprehensive data about those who have gotten sick could help inform more effective responses to the crisis. But public health researchers say that when governments such as the United States either don't collect, or don't publish their data, it's impossible for experts to gain an accurate sense of what's going on.

Data divided by sex

In collaboration with Global Health 50/50, a research institute examining gender inequality in global health, CNN analyzed the publicly available data from 20 countries with the highest number of confirmed cases of Covid-19 at the time of data collection -- March 20.

The aim was to see why men seem to be dying more than women.

 

 

But across the countries for which we have data - spanning nearly a quarter of the world's population - we found that men were 50% more likely than women to die after being diagnosed with Covid-19.

 

 

"When we look at the data what we're seeing is that in every country with sex-disaggregated data ... there is between a 10% and 90% higher rate of mortality amongst people diagnosed with Covid if they are men compared to if they are women," says Sarah Hawkes, professor of global public health at University College London (UCL) and co-director of Global Health 50/50.

 

Just sharing more info. But wouldn't count out risk to girls or for them being safe. More great info in article.  But don't take this for sure.

 

 

In an effort to be fair we must do something about this uneven infection/death between women and men. Reducing the infections in men to more favorably match up with the rate of infections in women seems nearly impossible. The 70% number intrigues me. If I remember correctly,  women make on average a salary of 70% of what men make when comparing apples to apples. I suggest in order to make this situation fair that we take any woman who is making as much as a man on average and put them in a pool. Out of that pool we draw straws for those woman who will be forcibly infected with the coronavirus until we get enough to even out the infections between males and females. This program is in its infancy stages and we've yet to permanently give it a name. We're calling it the "Get Sick As A Dick" initiative until a better name can be found. Hopefully this will make women feel more like a partner in the battle against this disease. 

[B-Man]

 

 

What other president would be utilizing the private sector this much ?

 

 

 

TEAM USA: 

 

50 companies join Trump’s war on coronavirus.

 

 

 

[Warren Zevon]

2 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said:

You’ll get shooting in the streets 

 

You just can't wait to see American blood on American streets. Disgusting

2 minutes ago, 3rdnlng said:

In an effort to be fair we must do something about this uneven infection/death between women and men. Reducing the infections in men to more favorably match up with the rate of infections in women seems nearly impossible. The 70% number intrigues me. If I remember correctly,  women make on average a salary of 70% of what men make when comparing apples to apples. I suggest in order to make this situation fair that we take any woman who is making as much as a man on average and put them in a pool. Out of that pool we draw straws for those woman who will be forcibly infected with the coronavirus until we get enough to even out the infections between males and females. This program is in its infancy stages and we've yet to permanently give it a name. We're calling it the "Get Sick As A Dick" initiative until a better name can be found. Hopefully this will make women feel more like a partner in the battle against this disease. 

 

3th thing is still upset he's not a victim. One day he will be

[3rdnlng]

1 minute ago, Gary Busey said:

 

You just can't wait to see American blood on American streets. Disgusting

You got the wrong guy there, Peaches. You're describing Tiberius. 

[Warren Zevon]

Just now, 3rdnlng said:

You got the wrong guy there, Peaches. You're describing Tiberius. 

 

Tibs is a vet who has proudly served his country.

 

You're a clown on TBD.