The Athletic All-22: Why the film shows Duke Williams should be active in the playoffs

[MAJBobby]

 

[Rock'em Sock'em]

7 hours ago, ticketssince61 said:

It is alot more than 8 picks:

- Allen was 4 (?)

- Edmunds was 2

- Ford was 2

- Knox was 2

So it was really 15 picks

Interesting take and partially true, but they did not actually "make" 15 picks.

 

In terms of whether they should have traded up...

Allen - Solid enough pick.  But could have also waited and hoped Allen fell, or else selected Jackson.  Or they could have selected Watson or Mahommes in 2017.  There were lots of good options for QBs in 2017 and 2018, and they landed one of them.

Edmunds - Solid enough pick.  But they could have waited and selected Edmunds later if he fell, or else Darius Leonard.

Ford - Solid trade up, no great alternatives.

Knox - Solid trade up, no great alternatives.

[Buffalo Junction]

1 hour ago, DuckyBoys said:

Go look at the snap counts for offense and more importantly special teams and tell me Foster, Roberts, Dimarco and Perry are all irreplacable    I can guarantee you all 4 are worthless on offense  If only McKenzie could hold onto returns we wouldn't be wasting a wr spot for Roberts

This why I’m slightly baffled by everyone wanting to pull Foster for Duke instead of pulling McKenzie. Foster has done a pretty good job with those jet sweeps over the last two years when given the opportunity. ?‍♂️

[Scott7975]

1 hour ago, MAJBobby said:

Stats have shown this to be wrong. There are just as many kick returns this year than those in the past. Also Texans ST are very good so doesn’t make sense taking off one of our best ST weapons. 
 

so let’s say you lose his Return yards because of Hyde just catching the Punt. You don’t think those extra yards Help an offense?

 

The dude is good and I am not advocating taking him out … but I also see the point.  There may be just as many kick returns this year than in the past but that doesn't mean its the right thing.  For instance  his avg kick return is the 26 yard line.  If its just a touchback you are at the 25 anyways.  I doubt that 1 yard avg extra is that much of a difference.  That includes a long of 66 yards.  Which means more often than not he isn't even getting to the 25 yard line. 

 

Roberts has broken 40+ yards 3 times this season.  While those 3 times are helpful in the moment... what about the rest of the time that he effectively lost yardage due to not getting there or a penalty which are way more frequent.  There are also potential injuries to consider. Its kind of like when we had a really poor run game but kept banging away at it.  The RB would get stuffed, lose yardage, or maybe get a yard at best most of the time... but hey he broke one for 20 yards that one time.  That's great except the other 15 times he put us in long yardage situations.

 

As for PR's... Hyde averages 2.7 yards less.  That's not a lot. like maybe 1 first down an entire game?  A little more?

 

Again, I am not advocating him not doing the job.  I am just saying I see the argument. 

 

Marcus Easley we kept on the roster for years.  Worthless player IMO and a wasted roster spot but hey... great gunner.  Kind of like what Foster is to me now.

Edited January 1, 2020 by Scott7975

[Big Blitz]

Like I said last week........"lit."  Didn't have 12 catches but he had 12 freaking targets.  

 

 

Edited January 1, 2020 by Big Blitz

[Scott7975]

27 minutes ago, Buffalo Junction said:

This why I’m slightly baffled by everyone wanting to pull Foster for Duke instead of pulling McKenzie. Foster has done a pretty good job with those jet sweeps over the last two years when given the opportunity. ?‍♂️

 

My problem is the Jet sweeps work well for us but we rarely use them.  I can count on one hand how many time we ran them over the last month or so.

[Jerome007]

Fans have been having a hard on for Duke for a while but that means nothing. BUT, the Jets played to win, had  their starters, there were no Smoke or Beasley or Knox to draw attention away from Duke, and he was wide open all game. That to me makes it a no brainer. We all though Foster would at the very least stretch the field but he's been a non-factor all year, and well Josh has not connected much on deep throws. Much better to put Duke in there,

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, HappyDays said:

 

I agree with Joe Marino's take - inactivate Kurt Coleman for Duke Williams. His special teams snaps have declined since the beginning of the year and he was terrible against the Jets. It is useless to keep him active over a receiver that offers something different on offense.

 

It is just a numbers game at defensive back that keeps Coleman up for me. 

[Albany,n.y.]

11 hours ago, ticketssince61 said:

 

It is alot more than 8 picks:

- Allen was 4 (?)

- Edmunds was 2

- Ford was 2

- Knox was 2

So it was really 15 picks

8 picks were 2019 only.  The extra Ford pick was giving back the one we stole for AJ McCarron & the Knox pick was for our 4th & the 4th we got for Reggie Ragland.  So I still think the 2019 draft was pretty amazing. 

 

The reality of the Allen trade is more complicated: Glenn to Cincinnati to move from 21 to 12 and then trading pick 12 along with our own 2nd pick & the 2nd we got from LAR to rent Watkins for a year.  So technically it was 4 players, 3 actual draft picks-may turn out to be the steal of the draft.  Edmunds was traded by taking the extra 1 we got from KC the year before & throwing in the 3rd we stole from Cleveland for their 1 year rental of Tyrod Taylor.  

 

With the exception of his last 3 picks in 2018, Beane has been great handling the draft.  We drafted 2 players who look like keepers in the 7th round last year & found at least 1 more starter in the 2018 undrafted free agent class.  

 

Just think: in 3 of the 4 player trades you mentioned Beane moved a draft pick that he acquired by trading a player on the final year of his contract.  

Edited January 1, 2020 by Albany,n.y.

[John from Riverside]

6 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

In fairness Duke's run blocking overall has been pretty decent when he has been on the field despite a couple of whiffs on Sunday. Otherwise I agree with everything you posted above. 

 

I wonder if people actually watch the Bills and really understand what their plan is?

 

The Bills win on defense by not giving up big plays and by making teams put together 8-12 play drives to score. Make one mistake in there and get yourself behind the chains and the Bills defense almost always gets you off the field. That has to be allied with a special teams unit that at the very least holds its own in the field position game. Make teams start drives against you from their 30 at best. If you have a couple of special teams breakdowns that give your opponent, in this case Deshaun Watson and the Texans, starts at midfield it undermines your whole defensive gameplan. 

 

The Bills are not going to risk that for a marginal talent at wide receiver. I still say the route to get Duke active if that is the way they decide to go is at the expense of a tight end. 

I think the player that should sit for Duke being active is Lee Evans......his snap count has gone down over the course of the season.....he takes too many penalties....he provides virtually NOTHING as a offensive threat.....and as you said Duke also blocks for the run.

 

I dont understand the downplay of Duke's offensive ability.....someone called a him a good pass  catcher...I can think of 2 games this year that head he been the pass catcher on the end of the pass we either win or go to overtime.

 

I dont know what the future holds for Duke....maybe in the offseason they get the bigger body guy who actually separates but I love how Duke squeezes the ball when he catches it....secures the ball....he provides something that we dont have on the field because Dawson KNox while he makes big plays also drops the ball.....Duke has been as reliable as it gets.  He just went against the jets starters and had a 100 yard game.   We dont have any size to throw to the boundry or high point the ball at wr which is missing from this offense.

 

I keep going back to Kelvin Benjamin.....who ws a disaster as a wide receiver but Josh threw Kelvin so many balls that Duke Williams would have caught (imo)

[Albany,n.y.]

55 minutes ago, Rock'em Sock'em said:

Allen - Solid enough pick.  But could have also waited and hoped Allen fell, or else selected Jackson.  Or they could have selected Watson or Mahommes in 2017.  There were lots of good options for QBs in 2017 and 2018, and they landed one of them.

 

Allen wouldn't have fallen, Arizona really wanted him & he would have never made it to 12.   The Bills didn't like Jackson as evidenced by the leaked draft board that had Rosen, Rudolph & Lauletta on it as the final 3 but no Jackson.  

 

Obviously, in hindsight even the biggest Allen homers (like me) will admit we shouldn't have traded the pick to KC & either drafted Mahomes or Watson.  The problem is, by not firing Whaley immediately after the season & putting his replacement in there in January, the Bills were not prepared to draft a QB to be the face of the franchise in 2017.  If you need to blame the Bills for not getting Mahomes or Watson, blame Pegula for not having a GM in place well before the 2017 draft.  It was well known in the Buffalo media (or at least by Jerry Sullivan who said in April that Whaley was leaving) that Whaley was dead GM walking.  Basically with the structure they had in place, they were not about to saddle the new GM with someone else's QB selection.  

[HappyDays]

31 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

It is just a numbers game at defensive back that keeps Coleman up for me. 

 

Not counting the last game he has played 13 defensive snaps this year. Less than 1 per game. White, Wallace, Poyer, Hyde, T. Johnson, J. Johnson, K. Johnson, and Neal is enough for me.

[3rdand12]

17 hours ago, Don Otreply said:

Well, there you have it folks, it has become Main Stream obvious, Duke Williams should be active and used in our offense, this has been very obvious to many off us here and in the greater Bills world for quite some time now. Now maybe, just maybe those who have not seen the forest through the trees might just notice the shrubbery....

 

Go Bills!!!

Main Stream Obvious

 Love the new term you just coined !

 and since you mentioned a shrubbery....

[Kelly the Dog]

8 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Not counting the last game he has played 13 defensive snaps this year. Less than 1 per game. White, Wallace, Poyer, Hyde, T. Johnson, J. Johnson, K. Johnson, and Neal is enough for me.

Yep, depending on Wallace's health. I don't think they will do it though. I think in a playoff game that McD will opt for Coleman's experience. It's possible that he would sit J Johnson though if he really thought that Duke could make a difference. IMO, he could.

[HappyDays]

2 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said:

Yep, depending on Wallace's health. I don't think they will do it though. I think in a playoff game that McD will opt for Coleman's experience. It's possible that he would sit J Johnson though if he really thought that Duke could make a difference. IMO, he could.

 

Jaquan Johnson was vastly superior to Kurt Coleman against the Jets. That being said, knowing McDermott you are probably right.

[WotAGuy]

5 hours ago, jwhit34 said:

Duke will follow in the great TBD Stadium Wall tradition of Brandon Reilly, Da'Rick Rogers and Naaman Roosevelt and drift into oblivion after the board clamoring for more snaps. 

Only 14 hours in and you’ve ruined 2020 for me...?

[3rdand12]

12 hours ago, oldschoolfootball1963 said:

Just confirming what we already know. Not only should Duke be starting but Sweeney should be in there with knox when the Bills go to 2 TE sets. Also put Singletary and Yeldon on the field at the same time. This is so easy to see. Maybe our coaching staff will wise up. We need points not a fullback or TE that just blocks.  Sean McDermott  started Peterman out of the blue against the Chargers 2 years ago and benched Tyrod. Maybe lighting will strike twice. We need to score, wtf is wrong with the Bills flood the field with your best weapons and let’s attack. 

I think part of McD's method has been to protect Allen. either with blocking or empty sets and quick reads.

 and he is patient. painfully so , to let His Process play out.

[Kelly the Dog]

2 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Jaquan Johnson was vastly superior to Kurt Coleman against the Jets. That being said, knowing McDermott you are probably right.

Yeah, I think he was, too. McD loves him some Coleman though, and a rookie late rounder who hasn't played a ton of snaps on the road against a good QB and  WR corps makes any NFL twitchy.

[Freddie's Dead]

2 hours ago, MAJBobby said:

houstons secondary is exposed by speed. Has been all year. My prediction BOTH Foster and Williams will be active. 

 

Who bites it then?  My guy McKittrick?  

[3rdand12]

On 1/1/2020 at 8:49 AM, ProcessTruster said:

To your second line above, my sense is that many who watch the Bills intently desperately want them to be like the Chiefs, Saints, the popular entertaining offensive teams.   The cool kids of the league with the shiny toys and the goats.   That's fine, but McD is working to win games, and trying to imitate the cool kids and throw it all over the place with a 2nd tier offensive roster will lose you more games than it will win.   Bills-style football(this year) is pretty boring, lunch pail, field position, stay in the game stuff,  in comparison to the other top 10 teams.   and I'm a fan.   but it works.  the media ignore it, bc there are no splash plays or players to sell advertising off of.   but it works.   Trust the Process; barring a pile of injuries,  my sense is McBeanes will ultimately prevail over time.

I am on board.
 and trust them.
I can still have my wish list.

Mentioned to my Buddy at work.

Bills lose games because turnovers. if they protect the ball all game, they are playing the game the drew up. Always tight and almost always a nailbiter. for me its been huge fun this year.
 

 So many game began with me saying " oh well we're f'd " after getting gashed by the run in the 1st qtr. and then what happens?
Bills tighten up and make it interesting. very.
 I would play Duke all day over Foster at this point.
because Foster suks. not because Duke is all that and a bag of chips. But he does play a rounded game of football.

Edited January 2, 2020 by 3rdand12