2019 New Era Field Attendance Figures & Bills REVENUE

[Stallions]

** UPDATE**  Posters have furnished Revenue numbers for the Bills in 2019 - see below-!

 

The 2019 version of the Bills drew (tickets sold) 570,713 fans to New Era Field.  That was an average of 68,839 per game.  The only game close to a sell-out was in week #4 vs. the Patriots with a crowd of 70,317.  Current capacity is 71,857.

 

The Bills averaged over 8 games a 95.8% capacity rating which was 16th in the NFL.  Among the 16 below us were the Jets, Giants, Dallas and Green Bay.

 

GO BILLS!

 

Edited December 31, 2019 by Stallions

[LB48]

so with a much better HOME schedule next season will ticket prices increase dramatically?  That's the only way the team can make more $ with 95.8% seats sold??

[Mr. WEO]

1 hour ago, Stallions said:

The 2019 version of the Bills drew (tickets sold) 570,713 fans to New Era Field.  That was an average of 68,839 per game.  The only game close to a sell-out was in week #4 vs. the Patriots with a crowd of 70,317.  Current capacity is 71,857.

 

The Bills averaged over 8 games a 95.8% capacity rating which was 16th in the NFL.  Among the 16 below us were the Jets, Giants, Dallas and Green Bay.

 

GO BILLS!

 

 

 

Green Bay?  All we hear is that all tickets are spoken for for the next 100 seasons

[LB48]

I have to add that the Bills were ranked 28th in NFL REVENUE for the 2019 season at $386 mil.  Dallas was at $950 mil and the Pats 2nd at $600 mil.

The Pegula's rule!

[ArtVandalay]

37 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

Green Bay?  All we hear is that all tickets are spoken for for the next 100 seasons

Attendance, not sales.

[Mr. WEO]

1 minute ago, ArtVandalay said:

Attendance, not sales.

 

 

They don't want to see that team in person?  They prefer to eat the season tickets?

Edited December 31, 2019 by Mr. WEO

[ArtVandalay]

40 minutes ago, LB48 said:

I have to add that the Bills were ranked 28th in NFL REVENUE for the 2019 season at $386 mil.  Dallas was at $950 mil and the Pats 2nd at $600 mil.

The Pegula's rule!

I'd love to see the profit margin. Dallas has to pay for that ridiculous stadium and the Bills are just nickel and diming some renovations.

[Mr. WEO]

3 minutes ago, ArtVandalay said:

I'd love to see the profit margin. Dallas has to pay for that ridiculous stadium and the Bills are just nickel and diming some renovations.

 

 

This info, "operating income", is published every year by Forbes.

 

The Cowboys destroy the Bills every year.  last year it was vey a factor of 5.  The Bills margin was 32nd in the NFL.

[ArtVandalay]

10 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

This info, "operating income", is published every year by Forbes.

 

The Cowboys destroy the Bills every year.  last year it was vey a factor of 5.  The Bills margin was 32nd in the NFL.

I wouldn't expect the Bills to top them but the gap to be less. How does Forbes publish this? Is it estimates? They are private companies.

[Mr. WEO]

Just now, ArtVandalay said:

I wouldn't expect the Bills to top them but the gap to be less. How does Forbes publish this? Is it estimates? They are private companies.

 

 

They have done it every Fall for years.  I don't know how they do it, but the NFL teams don't challenge their numbers.

 

The Cowboys are massive earners, despite the stadium debt.  The Bills make Jerry Jones pin money.

[Steve Billieve]

1 hour ago, ArtVandalay said:

I wouldn't expect the Bills to top them but the gap to be less. How does Forbes publish this? Is it estimates? They are private companies.

Most Forbes lists are not very rigorous.  Often just a single piece of data from publicly available information.  Most of their richest person lists are created using the sum of stock value without examining debts or other assets.  They will sometimes make adjustments if people complain and offer evidence but this rarely happens.

[Boatdrinks]

4 hours ago, LB48 said:

so with a much better HOME schedule next season will ticket prices increase dramatically?  That's the only way the team can make more $ with 95.8% seats sold??

Pricing power in that outdated stadium with fans exposed to the elements is minimal. A few more attractive games could see somewhat higher pricing, but not by a whole lot. 

[ArtVandalay]

12 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

They have done it every Fall for years.  I don't know how they do it, but the NFL teams don't challenge their numbers.

 

The Cowboys are massive earners, despite the stadium debt.  The Bills make Jerry Jones pin money.

Bills, although last #28 in revenue at $386 MM, are actually 18th in Operating Income with $82 MM just under KC. Middle of the pack. Very good operation, an improvement from the revenue ranking I expected from them running lean in comparison.

 

Again, this is Forbes and private companies so this is likely estimates.

 

https://www.forbes.com/nfl-valuations/list/#header:operatingIncome_sortreverse:true

 

 

[Mr. WEO]

1 minute ago, ArtVandalay said:

Bills, although last #28 in revenue at $386 MM, are actually 18th in Operating Income with $82 MM just under KC. Middle of the pack. Very good operation, an improvement from the revenue ranking I expected from them running lean in comparison.

 

Again, this is Forbes and private companies so this is likely estimates.

 

https://www.forbes.com/nfl-valuations/list/#header:operatingIncome_sortreverse:true

 

 

 

Yes, that's 1/5th the operating income of the Cowboys.  So even with large debt to service, the Cowboys bury most teams in profits, and the Bills despite little if any debt, make a small fraction of Dallas's take.

[ArtVandalay]

18 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Yes, that's 1/5th the operating income of the Cowboys.  So even with large debt to service, the Cowboys bury most teams in profits, and the Bills despite little if any debt, make a small fraction of Dallas's take.

Well the Cowboys are the #1 team in the league. But, as i said before the gap is far less between the two when looking at operating income.

 

Revenue: Dallas $950 MM vs Bills $386 MM is a $564 MM difference, Dallas ranked #1, Bills #28, 27 spot difference.

 

Operating Income: Dallas $420 MM vs Bills $82 MM is a $338 MM difference, Dallas ranked #1, Bills ranked #18, 17 spot difference.

 

When looking at actual operating income, Buffalo closes the gap between the two teams by $226 MM and 10 ranking spots. A significant difference.

 

That's what I'm referring to. Obviously not near Dallas who has twice as much operating income as the #2 team the Pats with $240 MM... but the operating income figures are much closer than revenue due to the Bills low overhead. When you consider the market difference of 7.2 MM Dallas market vs Buffalo's 1.2 MM outta quite extraordinary. Buffalo actually makes more money per fan at $96 per fan than Dallas does at $89 per fan -- that's a solid and profitable operation.

12 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

This info, "operating income", is published every year by Forbes.

 

The Cowboys destroy the Bills every year.  last year it was vey a factor of 5.  The Bills margin was 32nd in the NFL.

18th not 32nd.

@LB48

Edited December 31, 2019 by ArtVandalay

[Mr. WEO]

13 hours ago, ArtVandalay said:

I'd love to see the profit margin. Dallas has to pay for that ridiculous stadium and the Bills are just nickel and diming some renovations.

 

5 minutes ago, ArtVandalay said:

Well the Cowboys are the #1 team in the league. But, as i said before the gap is far less between the two when looking at operating income.

 

Revenue: Dallas $950 MM vs Bills $386 MM is a $564 MM difference, Dallas ranked #1, Bills #28, 27 spot difference.

 

Operating Income: Dallas $420 MM vs Bills $82 MM is a $338 MM difference, Dallas ranked #1, Bills ranked #18, 17 spot difference.

 

When looking at actual operating income, Buffalo closes the gap between the two teams by $226 MM and 10 ranking spots. A significant difference.

 

That's what I'm referring to. Obviously not near Dallas who has twice as much operating income as the #2 team the Pats with $240 MM... but the operating income figures are much closer than revenue due to the Bills low overhead. When you consider the market difference of 7.2 MM Dallas market vs Buffalo's 1.2 MM outta quite extraordinary. Buffalo actually makes more money per fan at $96 per fan than Dallas does at $89 per fan -- that's a solid and profitable operation.

 

 

I was responding to your first post.

 

It would require great effort to lose money as an NFL owner.  It's guaranteed income--no matter how good or bad your product is.  That's why Pegula bought the team--plus it's lots of fun to own one.

 

I wouldn't use market population as the number of fans for a team...

[ArtVandalay]

Using the Forbes provided (estimated?) figures I took that #18 overall operating income figure a step further and ran the ROV for each team.

 

Return on Valuation, using it as a similar metric to ROA (Return on Assets) since Forbes is providing valuations and not assets. ROV is your operating income as a percentage of your valuation, basically a way to compare the profitability of different sized/valued teams.

 

The Buffalo Bills actually rank 7th in the NFL in Return on Valuation at 4.3%. Dallas is #1 at 7.6% followed by NE 5.9%, Hou 5.7%, NO 5.5%, Phi 4.9%, Bal 4.8%, then the Bills - remaining NFL teams are below the 4% threshold.

 

That's outstanding.

 

The bottom 5 ROVs are: Chi 1.8%, Cle 1.5%, GB 1.4%, Oak 1.0%, LAR 0.8%.

[Big Turk]

4 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Yes, that's 1/5th the operating income of the Cowboys.  So even with large debt to service, the Cowboys bury most teams in profits, and the Bills despite little if any debt, make a small fraction of Dallas's take.

 

Cowboys make more in operating income than 12 teams (including the Bills) make in revenue.  The Bills do a great job translating those dollars to operating income tho, plus our owner is filthy rich so it doesn't matter much.

Edited December 31, 2019 by matter2003

[Mr. WEO]

2 hours ago, matter2003 said:

 

Cowboys make more in operating income than 12 teams (including the Bills) make in revenue.  The Bills do a great job translating those dollars to operating income tho, plus our owner is filthy rich so it doesn't matter much.

yrs this was posted above

[LB48]

6 hours ago, ArtVandalay said:

Using the Forbes provided (estimated?) figures I took that #18 overall operating income figure a step further and ran the ROV for each team.

 

Return on Valuation, using it as a similar metric to ROA (Return on Assets) since Forbes is providing valuations and not assets. ROV is your operating income as a percentage of your valuation, basically a way to compare the profitability of different sized/valued teams.

 

The Buffalo Bills actually rank 7th in the NFL in Return on Valuation at 4.3%. Dallas is #1 at 7.6% followed by NE 5.9%, Hou 5.7%, NO 5.5%, Phi 4.9%, Bal 4.8%, then the Bills - remaining NFL teams are below the 4% threshold.

 

That's outstanding.

 

The bottom 5 ROVs are: Chi 1.8%, Cle 1.5%, GB 1.4%, Oak 1.0%, LAR 0.8%.

THANK YOU for all the great data & information in your posts!

[Mr. WEO]

6 hours ago, ArtVandalay said:

Using the Forbes provided (estimated?) figures I took that #18 overall operating income figure a step further and ran the ROV for each team.

 

Return on Valuation, using it as a similar metric to ROA (Return on Assets) since Forbes is providing valuations and not assets. ROV is your operating income as a percentage of your valuation, basically a way to compare the profitability of different sized/valued teams.

 

The Buffalo Bills actually rank 7th in the NFL in Return on Valuation at 4.3%. Dallas is #1 at 7.6% followed by NE 5.9%, Hou 5.7%, NO 5.5%, Phi 4.9%, Bal 4.8%, then the Bills - remaining NFL teams are below the 4% threshold.

 

That's outstanding.

 

The bottom 5 ROVs are: Chi 1.8%, Cle 1.5%, GB 1.4%, Oak 1.0%, LAR 0.8%.

 

 

It is also true that the Bills have the among the highest % off their revenue coming form shared revenue (71%).  This means they are among the top 3 most dependent on the league wide revenue sharing (the "free money") for income.

 

Only their lack of debt keeps them high on your ROV list.

[HalftimeAdjustment]

23 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

It is also true that the Bills have the among the highest % off their revenue coming form shared revenue (71%).  This means they are among the top 3 most dependent on the league wide revenue sharing (the "free money") for income.

 

Only their lack of debt keeps them high on your ROV list.

 

Hey, lack of debt means lack of debt payments. They can accumulate the income over several years to offset future costs. I doubt the Pegulas are using the money, and there are no shareholders or analysts to worry about. If the team can earn $60-80M/yr that will go a long way towards a future stadium upgrade.

[Mr. WEO]

4 minutes ago, HalftimeAdjustment said:

 

Hey, lack of debt means lack of debt payments. They can accumulate the income over several years to offset future costs. I doubt the Pegulas are using the money, and there are no shareholders or analysts to worry about. If the team can earn $60-80M/yr that will go a long way towards a future stadium upgrade.

 

 

I hope so.  We shouldn't have to pay for it.

[ArtVandalay]

1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

It is also true that the Bills have the among the highest % off their revenue coming form shared revenue (71%).  This means they are among the top 3 most dependent on the league wide revenue sharing (the "free money") for income.

 

Only their lack of debt keeps them high on your ROV list.

Controlling expenses is just as important as generating revenue in profitability. 

 

Also, revenue sharing isn't "free money" it's earned by the league they are part of, they are part of the TV contracts and with a smaller local market they are the reason people like myself get Sunday Ticket out of market.

 

I don't understand your effort to be so negative about their figures where there are lots of positives.

 

Controlling debt, controlling expenses in a smaller company to generate better profitability is nothing to be ashamed about.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

22 hours ago, Boatdrinks said:

Pricing power in that outdated stadium with fans exposed to the elements is minimal. A few more attractive games could see somewhat higher pricing, but not by a whole lot. 

 

....EXACTLY....WNY economy of scale isn't Dallas, Boston, etc.............

[Punching Bag]

23 hours ago, Boatdrinks said:

Pricing power in that outdated stadium with fans exposed to the elements is minimal. A few more attractive games could see somewhat higher pricing, but not by a whole lot. 

 

As we have heard before the solution is a smaller stadium with lots of PSLs.  Of course finding people to pay it is difficult but resellers will help selling the tickets to opposing fans who are willing to pay more.

1 hour ago, ArtVandalay said:

Controlling expenses is just as important as generating revenue in profitability. 

 

Also, revenue sharing isn't "free money" it's earned by the league they are part of, they are part of the TV contracts and with a smaller local market they are the reason people like myself get Sunday Ticket out of market.

 

I don't understand your effort to be so negative about their figures where there are lots of positives.

 

Controlling debt, controlling expenses in a smaller company to generate better profitability is nothing to be ashamed about.

 

It is simple - he is a Pats troll.

[JMF2006]

On 12/30/2019 at 10:02 PM, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

They have done it every Fall for years.  I don't know how they do it, but the NFL teams don't challenge their numbers.

 

The Cowboys are massive earners, despite the stadium debt.  The Bills make Jerry Jones pin money.

 

Why would they as  they  don`t have to answer to shareholders.

[JMF2006]

The good news is that as long as they are making money and the Pegs are healthy this city will have 2 major professional sports teams

 

 Happy Healthy New Year to the  Pegulas and Thank You

[BarleyNY]

21 hours ago, ArtVandalay said:

Bills, although last #28 in revenue at $386 MM, are actually 18th in Operating Income with $82 MM just under KC. Middle of the pack. Very good operation, an improvement from the revenue ranking I expected from them running lean in comparison.

 

Again, this is Forbes and private companies so this is likely estimates.

 

https://www.forbes.com/nfl-valuations/list/#header:operatingIncome_sortreverse:true

 

 

Yes, except for Green Bay.  That’s public information, which the owners of the other 31 teams hate because their numbers are public.  They are often used to to help estimate the finances for the other teams. 

[1ManRaid]

We'd sell out more games with better weather and more than just the occasional road prime time/nationally televised game.  Also getting screwed on the preseason schedule (both home games being the ones starters play the least) doesn't help wet the appetites for people to pick up early season tickets.

 

*edit*

Of course, consistent success helps too.

Edited January 1, 2020 by 1ManRaid

[Royale with Cheese]

19 hours ago, ArtVandalay said:

Using the Forbes provided (estimated?) figures I took that #18 overall operating income figure a step further and ran the ROV for each team.

 

Return on Valuation, using it as a similar metric to ROA (Return on Assets) since Forbes is providing valuations and not assets. ROV is your operating income as a percentage of your valuation, basically a way to compare the profitability of different sized/valued teams.

 

The Buffalo Bills actually rank 7th in the NFL in Return on Valuation at 4.3%. Dallas is #1 at 7.6% followed by NE 5.9%, Hou 5.7%, NO 5.5%, Phi 4.9%, Bal 4.8%, then the Bills - remaining NFL teams are below the 4% threshold.

 

That's outstanding.

 

The bottom 5 ROVs are: Chi 1.8%, Cle 1.5%, GB 1.4%, Oak 1.0%, LAR 0.8%.

 

Nice work Buck Naked!

 

Let me ask you this, if we get more nationally televised games next year, that would mean more revenue for us?

[ArtVandalay]

5 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

Nice work Buck Naked!

 

Let me ask you this, if we get more nationally televised games next year, that would mean more revenue for us?

Thanks!

 

Not sure how that works though. But growing the brand is never a bad thing, just don't know how exactly those revenue dollars work.

[Mr. WEO]

12 hours ago, HalftimeAdjustment said:

 

Hey, lack of debt means lack of debt payments. They can accumulate the income over several years to offset future costs. I doubt the Pegulas are using the money, and there are no shareholders or analysts to worry about. If the team can earn $60-80M/yr that will go a long way towards a future stadium upgrade.

 

Yup.

 

10 hours ago, ArtVandalay said:

Controlling expenses is just as important as generating revenue in profitability. 

 

Also, revenue sharing isn't "free money" it's earned by the league they are part of, they are part of the TV contracts and with a smaller local market they are the reason people like myself get Sunday Ticket out of market.

 

I don't understand your effort to be so negative about their figures where there are lots of positives.

 

Controlling debt, controlling expenses in a smaller company to generate better profitability is nothing to be ashamed about.

 

I'm not being negative.  Again, I'm responding to your first post about profit margins. 

 

It's economies of scale.  Dallas has, due to it's larger scale and despite large debt, a massive earning advantage over a team like Buffalo, whos revenue is far more limited and dominated by shared revenue.  Sure there are Bills fans getting the Sunday ticket but there are likely multiples of that in Cowboys, Steelers, Packers, etc fans.  ANd Sunday ticket is a small fraction of the TV revenue. The network money is the real money.  STadium ticket money is estimated to be 8%-15% of the average team's margin--and the % of total revenue has gone down every year since 2010.  Even so, teams with relatively cheap tickets get to benefit from the teams that have far more robust demand for pricier seats as non-suite ticket revenue has to be shared by the home with the visitor.  Pegula made more money playing  the Cowboys in Dallas than had they played in Buffalo.

 

Shared revenue is pretty much free money for every team.  The vast majority of it is a prepaid fee by the networks so it is not earned by each team based on the desirability or marketability of its product.  There are few if any businesses where one company will profit from the more marketable and popular product of a competitor.  In addition to an even split of TV money,

 

The Bills have made annual profits in the tens of millions for years, despite only 3 winning seasons in the past 20.  That's pretty much is the definition of free money.  And there's nothing wrong with that.

[Mr. WEO]

1 hour ago, 1ManRaid said:

We'd sell out more games with better weather and more than just the occasional road prime time/nationally televised game.  Also getting screwed on the preseason schedule (both home games being the ones starters play the least) doesn't help wet the appetites for people to pick up early season tickets.

 

*edit*

Of course, consistent success helps too.

 

Weather isn't a factor in other cold weather NFL cities.  It's not a factor in Buffalo.

 

33 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

Nice work Buck Naked!

 

Let me ask you this, if we get more nationally televised games next year, that would mean more revenue for us?

 

The revenue is set until the next contract.  The only way a nationally televised game results in more revenue for a team is if it results in more team merchandise sold or more sellouts at subsequent games.

Edited January 1, 2020 by Mr. WEO

[Boatdrinks]

3 hours ago, BUFFALOBART said:

...Might be the reason that the Pegulas are treading water carefully with regard to building a new stadium.

W/O significant public money, their fairly cozy operating income numbers just might gravitate towards red ink. The 'outdated stadium' does its part in keeping the team in WNY.

Yes, significant public money would be required in the building of a new stadium for the Bills. Yes, the “ free” but outdated digs in which the team currently plays helps the bottom line. For now. It’s a problem, but one that I believe will get resolved and result in a new stadium sometime  in the next ten years. 

[Chandler#81]

On 12/31/2019 at 10:58 PM, ArtVandalay said:

Controlling expenses is just as important as generating revenue in profitability. 

 

Also, revenue sharing isn't "free money" it's earned by the league they are part of, they are part of the TV contracts and with a smaller local market they are the reason people like myself get Sunday Ticket out of market.

 

I don't understand your effort to be so negative about their figures where there are lots of positives.

 

Controlling debt, controlling expenses in a smaller company to generate better profitability is nothing to be ashamed about.

Weo’s New Years Resolution was to be more tolerant and accepting of his fellow man. That lasted about 11 hours..