row_33 Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 1 hour ago, /dev/null said: I wish I could double thumbs up this post. First for the statement and second for the rare proper usage of effect as a verb I’m known as a great affectator and a big help Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TPS Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 22 hours ago, GG said: It can only be fixed with a constant turnover of the perpetual bureaucracy. @Deranged Rhino, maybe you should re-name your deep state thread... You can't reform a government that's simply a reflection of concentrated economic power, whether it's the MIC-security state, Wall Street, big tech and pharma, you name it. The rules of this world are made by those who wield economic power, and the rest of us are forced to live by their rules. but, yeah sure, it's liberals and pc culture that are the problem.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFanNC Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 I still say none of the proposed government changes have a prayer of working without fixing the modern media establishment first. When half the country exists within an alternate reality echo chamber, and yes it happens both ways, just happens to be the dems who are currently taking lsd. How can we ever hope to institute real change that half the country doesnt greet with pitchforks and a burn the witch mentality with the way people get their "news" today? As others have said I think we are well past the point of no return. We are at the end of the beginning of the republic circling the drain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxx Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 i know i am in the minority here that think this, however.... until it is understood that both 'parties' are nothing more than just two different factions of the same 'party', no real change will be had. the levels of awareness by members of the party vary from useful idiots to puppet masters and everything between. useful idiots believe they are fighting for party ideals, whereas the puppet masters set the agendas to divide. the main stream media is nothing more than the propaganda arm of the 'party', as you see with a controlled narrative from either side of the same viewpoint. it doesn't matter whether you are a politician or a journalist, if you aren't toeing the narrative, you are ostracized and marginalized to minimalize you and your thoughts. we, as a nation have become so fat in our largesse, i fear that the only way we will truly deviate from the plan the elite have for us is if/when stomach pains come into reality. this is the reason why i root for Trump. we have been presented with a chance that doesn't come along very often, a chance to marginalize the marginalizers. for it may very well be our only chance to have a peaceful revolution. if we are unsuccessful, it is going to get u.g.l.y. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wacka Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 16 hours ago, Nanker said: I’ll say it again. The Left (antifa, Occupiers, BlackLivesMatter, SocialCommunists) want to relive the French Revolution. The Right wants to adhere to the principles of the American Revolution. As such one would think the Leftist would be perfectly comfortable with bringing back the guillotine - especially if it gets used the most at the SuperBowl halftime. Especially on the Cheatriots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Deek Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 What do we do about government? If you look to closely you come away with a ‘burn the entire house down’ mentality. Then you step back and see what’s actually being accomplished in the last three years and you see that despite all the grandstanding, real progress is being made. (Just as it was under Obama, but in the other direction.) So...you’re just going to have a lot more running to the microphone with fake outrage and with each swing of the electoral pendulum you’ll have to get used to a different bunch of stooges behind that microphone all screaming about the end of the Republic, the end of civilization...or the end of the planet. Welcome to government in the age of social media and 24:7 cable news. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 2 hours ago, row_33 said: The People can use the ballot box to effect severe proper change might take another election for liberals to realize what is really going on in their country ...never would happen...look at the long, long, LONG list of "career politicians".......power mongers who the fickle electorate just keep re-electing.......look how many hang around into their 80's or even 90's.......Strom Thurmond (98)?......Bob Byrd(90)?.....Helms (83)?.....Hollings(83)?......."effective legislators"?.....seriously?......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob's House Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 4 hours ago, John Adams said: "Without blaming a political party" Do you think someone could write this about the other side? Of course they could. You say you agree with my point, then spend the rest of your time completely undermining that statement. Your post is *the* problem. The part of your post I agreed with was the part I quoted. Specifically, that it isn't good vs. evil. (Although that needs further qualification). The rest of your post I thought was a subversive exercise in false equivocation. And the short answer is no, you can't fix this problem without "blaming" a party anymore than you can treat the patient without "blaming" (i.e. diagnosing) the disease. I explained why that is in great detail in my previous post. And no, I don't think you could write this about the other side. Not with any degree of honesty or accuracy. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gavin in Va Beach Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 One thing I've always thought is that Supreme Court decisions should be unanimous. Justice is supposed to be blind, not dependent on personal political philosophy. If they all can't agree on something, then it should be kicked back to the states to decide or to start over. Anytime we have a 5-4 decision it feels like a travesty, that no real justice was accomplished. Maybe it would make the current justice nomination process less of a shitshow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Adams Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 1 hour ago, Gavin in Va Beach said: One thing I've always thought is that Supreme Court decisions should be unanimous. Justice is supposed to be blind, not dependent on personal political philosophy. If they all can't agree on something, then it should be kicked back to the states to decide or to start over. Anytime we have a 5-4 decision it feels like a travesty, that no real justice was accomplished. Maybe it would make the current justice nomination process less of a shitshow. Federal issues can't be kicked back to states. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
row_33 Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 1 hour ago, Gavin in Va Beach said: One thing I've always thought is that Supreme Court decisions should be unanimous. Justice is supposed to be blind, not dependent on personal political philosophy. If they all can't agree on something, then it should be kicked back to the states to decide or to start over. Anytime we have a 5-4 decision it feels like a travesty, that no real justice was accomplished. Maybe it would make the current justice nomination process less of a shitshow. ideology has always ruled since Day One of the US SC part of the ebb and flow of a free society some people like to collect evidence and facts and logic, some like to run on their emotions and prejudices and overturn everything that is common sense to 99.9% of the population Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Adams Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Rob's House said: The part of your post I agreed with was the part I quoted. Specifically, that it isn't good vs. evil. (Although that needs further qualification). The rest of your post I thought was a subversive exercise in false equivocation. And the short answer is no, you can't fix this problem without "blaming" a party anymore than you can treat the patient without "blaming" (i.e. diagnosing) the disease. I explained why that is in great detail in my previous post. And no, I don't think you could write this about the other side. Not with any degree of honesty or accuracy. I won't do it in the spirit of the thread, but of course they could. I wouldn't believe half of it but I could do it in no time and that's the point of this good vs evil way of thinking about the other 50%. It's not a productive way to start working together. If you move in closer, the individuals are just people, and probably people you would be fine having at the neighborhood BBQ. 2 hours ago, Foxx said: i know i am in the minority here that think this, however.... until it is understood that both 'parties' are nothing more than just two different factions of the same 'party', no real change will be had. the levels of awareness by members of the party vary from useful idiots to puppet masters and everything between. useful idiots believe they are fighting for party ideals, whereas the puppet masters set the agendas to divide. the main stream media is nothing more than the propaganda arm of the 'party', as you see with a controlled narrative from either side of the same viewpoint. it doesn't matter whether you are a politician or a journalist, if you aren't toeing the narrative, you are ostracized and marginalized to minimalize you and your thoughts. we, as a nation have become so fat in our largesse, i fear that the only way we will truly deviate from the plan the elite have for us is if/when stomach pains come into reality. this is the reason why i root for Trump. we have been presented with a chance that doesn't come along very often, a chance to marginalize the marginalizers. for it may very well be our only chance to have a peaceful revolution. if we are unsuccessful, it is going to get u.g.l.y. I understand why you cheer him tearing down things. I do. But do you think that besides the judicial nominations and China (which may or may not come to heel on trade and IP), both of which I applaud often and loudly, that he's leaving much in place that can last? Edited December 13, 2019 by John Adams Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxx Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 (edited) 17 minutes ago, John Adams said: ... I understand why you cheer him tearing down things. I do. But do you think that besides the judicial nominations and China (which may or may not come to heel on trade and IP), both of which I applaud often and loudly, that he's leaving much in place that can last? hell yes i do. balanced trade. fair and legal immigration. rooting out human trafficking. going after pedophiles. re-instituting the rule of law. doing away with the two tiered justice system. there is a lot more but i'll let you stew on these for now. Edited December 13, 2019 by Foxx 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
row_33 Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 2 hours ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said: ...never would happen...look at the long, long, LONG list of "career politicians".......power mongers who the fickle electorate just keep re-electing.......look how many hang around into their 80's or even 90's.......Strom Thurmond (98)?......Bob Byrd(90)?.....Helms (83)?.....Hollings(83)?......."effective legislators"?.....seriously?......... Trump and Boris are the result of decent people finally showing up at the voting booth and thinking for a change 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Deek Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 18 minutes ago, row_33 said: Trump and Boris are the result of decent people finally showing up at the voting booth and thinking for a change It’s actually proof that the electorate is ‘mad as hell and we’re not going to take this anymore’! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
row_33 Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 10 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said: It’s actually proof that the electorate is ‘mad as hell and we’re not going to take this anymore’! your system lets you have a good say every 2 years to bring in change Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Deek Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 6 minutes ago, row_33 said: your system lets you have a good say every 2 years to bring in change That system is systematically....a mess! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 3 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said: That system is systematically....a mess! It's like the continuity of changing the head coach every two years. -) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
row_33 Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 5 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said: That system is systematically....a mess! as opposed to whom? Israel is off to a 4th election in 12 months? Canada is dicking around until a non-confidence vote comes down, shrug... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo_Gal Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 22 hours ago, Foxx said: did you read the Panama Papers? Funny you should bring that up... this is circulating again today (and recall, that the DOJ shutdown their investigation to Tony Podesta in September ) (thread) 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 On 12/12/2019 at 9:03 AM, KRC said: Taking John Adams' lead, let talk about what we can do to fix the problems in our government. As the OP, I will set the ground rules . Without blaming a political party or any specific politician, how do we fix the systemic issues that have put us in the situation we are in right now? There have been obvious failures on multiple levels that never should have happened. Can it be fixed or are we too far gone? We are still waiting on Barr and Durham to see if any unelected officials will be held accountable. We still have the matter of elected official accountability which is also underway. Other than voting people out of office to handle the elected official problem, how do we address the unelected official part of the problem? What is the over/under on how fast someone will break the rules. Abolish it. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxx Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 (edited) 32 minutes ago, Buffalo_Gal said: Funny you should bring that up... this is circulating again today (and recall, that the DOJ shutdown their investigation to Tony Podesta in September ) (thread)... thank you for this. there is A LOT there and there is a reason why it has been swept under the rug. hopefully, this is all part of the coming reveal. Edited December 13, 2019 by Foxx 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 1 minute ago, Foxx said: thank you for this. there is A LOT there and there is a reason why it has been swept under the rug. hopefully, this is all part of the coming reveal. +1 @Buffalo_Gal, thanks for sharing that. Good stuff. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 33 minutes ago, Buffalo_Gal said: Funny you should bring that up... this is circulating again today (and recall, that the DOJ shutdown their investigation to Tony Podesta in September ) (thread) ....and I'd bet Tony is just as honest, forthright, above board and clean as a whistle just like brother John, right?......a card carrying Dynasty member...... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Deek Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 How do you fix the federal government? Flat Tax Balanced Budget Amendment Everything else addresses the symptom, not the cause. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KRC Posted December 13, 2019 Author Share Posted December 13, 2019 2 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said: Balanced Budget Amendment They would just cook the books to make it look balanced, but it really is not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Deek Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 3 minutes ago, KRC said: They would just cook the books to make it look balanced, but it really is not. OK? I’m not sure you know but all state and local governments have to balance their budgets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 9 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said: How do you fix the federal government? Flat Tax Balanced Budget Amendment Everything else addresses the symptom, not the cause. Why do you want to abolish the federal bond market? That's really stupid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KRC Posted December 13, 2019 Author Share Posted December 13, 2019 2 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said: OK? I’m not sure you know but all state and local governments have to balance their budgets. Clinton's budget "surplus." Proof that you can manipulate the numbers any way you want to get the desired result. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Deek Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 4 minutes ago, Tiberius said: Why do you want to abolish the federal bond market? That's really stupid I stand by my suggestions I couldn’t care less about the bond market Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
row_33 Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 18 minutes ago, KRC said: Clinton's budget "surplus." Proof that you can manipulate the numbers any way you want to get the desired result. provided the media kiss your behind 24/7 well, until the blue dress was tested... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 21 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said: I stand by my suggestions I couldn’t care less about the bond market Since you would be handicapping the government so much, what would you cut first, the military or health care for Vets and the elderly? Because getting rid of the bond market would mean getting rid of much of that...for only ignorant reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Deek Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 13 minutes ago, Tiberius said: Since you would be handicapping the government so much, what would you cut first, the military or health care for Vets and the elderly? Because getting rid of the bond market would mean getting rid of much of that...for only ignorant reasons. It wouldn’t be up to me to get rid of anything. It would be up to the elected officials to compromise for a change and strike a balance between spending programs and taxes. With the key being thar if you want to raise or lower taxes you do so on everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koko78 Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 54 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said: OK? I’m not sure you know but all state and local governments have to balance their budgets. NY gets around actually balancing budgets by spinning off liabilities to state-created "Authorities", as an accounting gimmick. There's something like 1,200 Authorities that control everything from Niagara Falls to the Thruway to NY Harbor. Many of them own state property and "lease" it back to the state for nothing, to hide costs that we're paying either way. As an example of how crooked they are: The NFTA (Niagara Frontier Transit Authority) has been a significant (though not the only) hindrance to developing Buffalo's waterfront area for decades, because they own most of the property and cannot be forced to sell. Or another example: The authority that runs the Niagara Falls power plant is not supposed to turn a profit selling power, but somehow had ~$500,000,000 lying around to "donate" back to the general fund (several times) during budget crises. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 25 minutes ago, Koko78 said: NY gets around actually balancing budgets by spinning off liabilities to state-created "Authorities", as an accounting gimmick. There's something like 1,200 Authorities that control everything from Niagara Falls to the Thruway to NY Harbor. Many of them own state property and "lease" it back to the state for nothing, to hide costs that we're paying either way. As an example of how crooked they are: The NFTA (Niagara Frontier Transit Authority) has been a significant (though not the only) hindrance to developing Buffalo's waterfront area for decades, because they own most of the property and cannot be forced to sell. Or another example: The authority that runs the Niagara Falls power plant is not supposed to turn a profit selling power, but somehow had ~$500,000,000 lying around to "donate" back to the general fund (several times) during budget crises. good call bud.....it's a massive shell game gimmick......'ol Mario used to write "IOU's" to the State Insurance Fund (Workers Comp Insurance) to close any budget gap.......written on toilet paper......driver's licenses are for 7 years so they spend tomorrow's money today.....eventually with attrition or exodus, it will catch up......if you've ever done municipal work (we are in construction), departments go into panic mode as they near the fiscal year end with a potential surplus......and go into "spend every last nickel", mostly wasteful, versus facing a cut the following year..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 On December 12, 2019 at 11:29 AM, Koko78 said: Public? No. For example, if I were charged with using any means to end corruption at a particular bureaucratic institution (and, you know, disregarded my conscience/soul), I would likely call all employees into a meeting. At that meeting, I would call up selected people (in various capacities/ranks), that I had fairly solid evidence of corruption on. I would present that evidence to the crowd, and summarily execute them in front of the rest, hopefully splattering some gore on as many people as possible. I would then inform those assembled that this is the price they, and their families, would pay for further corrupt acts, before having them file out of the room, one at a time, past the dead bodies. You can't change a bureaucratic/political culture with a few firings and rule changes, especially when it is damn near impossible to fire anyone. Obviously the above example is horrible and over-the-top. So you'd have killed Tom Price? He wasted tons of public money on personal matters How about tax evaders? Would you go after that corruption with the same blood thirsty enthusiasm? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 Disband the current congress, hold new elections within a year. Set a maximum of two terms for senators, two for congressmen. No current members will be allowed to run again. Outlaw corporate money in the political arena, and allow no single donation over 1000 dollars. Cleanse the unelected federal government civil service in a manner similar to the congress. Lifers are out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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