Bengals release Preston Brown

[MAJBobby]

1 minute ago, Seoulofstone said:

 

 I get that fans want better. I do. The Bills look unconvincing for a 6-3 team. Casual fans want to see Mahomes at QB, Julio at WR, Mack at DE. I mean who wouldn't? I do think in hindsight getting absolutely nothing for Gilmore looks bad. But its hard to criticise without context. McD coming to an old underachieving team in cap hell made decisions which upset Bills fans. He hasn't been forgiven for those decisions and won't be until fans see success. A lot of people are all or nothing and they perceive gradual improvement as failure because they compare what they have to the very best.

 

 

 Except that they aren't anymore are they? Because of tough decisions like Gilmore. And the dead cap sacrifice last year. If McD fails the rest of this year and the team doesn't make the postseason he will still have broken the playoff drought and leave behind a much younger team with a strong D and with cap space. 

how much dead cap does a tag and trade rack up?

 

thanks Bengals. And so he leaves a good Defense and a bad Offense. Hmmmm very similar to many Bills teams 

[dubs]

1 minute ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

That ship sailed when they passed on Josh Gordon.

 

I know most Bills fans didn't watch that epic Seattle/SF game last night but Gordon stepped in cold and got open and caught a couple slants that nobody on the Bills WR corps could have.    The second one was 3 feet from his body at hip level in heavy traffic and he caught it in stride in his hands like someone soft tossed him a loaf of bread.    And btw the dude can run 22mph on a go route too.  

 

Contrast that to the punt returner the Bills were trying to throw over the middle to in Cleveland who slowed down and tried to body catch a ball that was nowhere near his body.   A ball he should have been able to catch in stride and run with.   That was a good look for McBeane and Bills WR coach Chad Hall.   Lofton offered to help them out with the "minor" technique issue tho that was nice.

FWIW I was being sarcastic. I know that ship sailed. 
 

yes, it’s frustrating. 

[Seoulofstone]

2 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

how much dead cap does a tag and trade rack up?

 

thanks Bengals. And so he leaves a good Defense and a bad Offense. Hmmmm very similar to many Bills teams 

 

  Read carefully. I agreed that (in hindsight) they should have got more than nothing for Gilmore. Where we differ is that you think he would have got a 1st where  i think it would have been less. It doesn't diminish the point though. He should have fetched something.

 

 If that worst case scenario happened (from McDs perspective) he would also leave a healthier cap and a younger team having achieved something as a rookie head coach. 

[JoshAllenHasBigHands]

15 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

year three still talking about the cap He’ll they created themselves. Awesome we are back to we’re we were before the rebuild. A crap Offense and a decent defense TREADING WATER 

I notice you still have yet to provide ANY data to your point. And I am fake ha ha ha ha 

 

Man, you don't understand why your data is irrelevant to the question. My point has always been that the data/information you need to make this claim is confidential and not really something you will ever know. 

 

I don't think you get it. I didn't disengage because I don't have data. I stopped responding because I don't think you are even bright enough to warrant a response. 

[Dr.Mantis_Toboggan]

I wouldn’t mind seeing him brought back for obvious run defense help, especially in short yardage situations, although “goal to go” clearly isn’t the problem, it’s getting run on everywhere in between.

[MAJBobby]

5 minutes ago, Seoulofstone said:

 

  Read carefully. I agreed that (in hindsight) they should have got more than nothing for Gilmore. Where we differ is that you think he would have got a 1st where  i think it would have been less. It doesn't diminish the point though. He should have fetched something.

 

 If that worst case scenario happened (from McDs perspective) he would also leave a healthier cap and a younger team having achieved something as a rookie head coach. 

so how long is one a Rookie HC? Is it 5 years 

 

only reason Bills are where they are is they played a super weak schedule and have been relatively healthy. Miss the playoffs with that fortune and it is a HUGE FAILURE 

5 minutes ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

 

Man, you don't understand why your data is irrelevant to the question. My point has always been that the data/information you need to make this claim is confidential and not really something you will ever know. 

 

I don't think you get it. I didn't disengage because I don't have data. I stopped responding because I don't think you are even bright enough to warrant a response. 

got it. So your are like those not smart people. Can get the data to back up a point and ignore it. Live in your little fantasy world. It is all good. Your just one of those guys that talk out his ass and thinks it means something. And that is why you ignore Data that contradicts your argument 

Edited November 12, 2019 by MAJBobby

[BADOLBILZ]

4 hours ago, Coach Tuesday said:

Do it.  Put him at the Mike and move Edmunds to the Elephant role, let him rush the passer where he has a chance to be ELITE.  You want to shake things up and tilt the field a bit?  Time to make a move, McBeane.

 

 

I haven't seen enough of Preston this year to say if he's fallen off the cliff but if he can still diagnose, get off blocks and get thru the trash to tackle a ball carrier it's worth a look as a situational.   He knows the D and lead in the NFL in tackles in it 2 years ago.    I mean hell just play him in the first half on first and second down when teams are running for 100 yards now every week.    Then in the second half when they inevitably get antsy and start throwing the ball you won't need him.    Easier yet give Stanford some snaps at MLB.   I'm like you I want to see what Edmunds can do outside while he still has time to learn how to rush the passer before it's contract decision time.

[MJS]

4 hours ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

Good run stopper.  Liability in pass coverage. 

I don't even even think he's a good run stuffer. He's more like an aggregate tackler. Always in the vicinity making clean up tackles, but never actually making impact plays.

 

He's a perfect backup, though. Not good enough to start, but a consistent body that can make tackles.

[transplantbillsfan]

42 minutes ago, GimmeSomeProcess said:

Yes the MLB leading all linebackers in pass defense is a disappointment. 

 

How's he been in run defense?

[Dr.Mantis_Toboggan]

2 hours ago, dubs said:

Are there any impact WRs on waivers?  Or anyone that can improve the offense. That’s all that matters at this point. 

Not going to get much better than Josh Gordon at this stage of the season... But apparently he’s not talented enough to help this team get to the post season, but he is however just good enough to play on one of the top teams in the game...

 

Allen doesn’t need a big, physical, 6’3 target with speed to get downfield, and a proven track record of being able to play at a HIGH level...

[oldmanfan]

5 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

so how long is one a Rookie HC? Is it 5 years 

 

only reason Bills are where they are is they played a super weak schedule and have been relatively healthy. Miss the playoffs with that fortune and it is a HUGE FAILURE 

got it. So your are like those not smart people. Can get the data to back up a point and ignore it. Live in your little fantasy world. It is all good. Your just one of those guys that talk out his ass and thinks it means something. And that is why you ignore Data that contradicts your argument 

Your are like those not smart people..

 

Can’t make this stuff up folks.

[MAJBobby]

Just now, oldmanfan said:

Your are like those not smart people..

 

Can’t make this stuff up folks.

Am I so still waiting on your take on Julian Stanford and Corey Thomas being better depth than Brown.  Dont worry I know I wont get that either.

[Seoulofstone]

10 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

so how long is one a Rookie HC? Is it 5 years 

 

  Wow pedantic  OK. Firsttime coach, although with regards to the Gilmore situation that you are so hung up over he was barely in the building -so very much a rookie HC.

[MAJBobby]

Just now, Seoulofstone said:

 

  Wow pedantic  OK. Firsttime coach, although with regards to the Gilmore situation that you are so hung up over he was barely in the building -so very much a rookie HC.

 

And if you read what I said I also said I am not fragging him that much for it, just one data point in a series of issues

Edited November 12, 2019 by MAJBobby

[Seoulofstone]

1 minute ago, MAJBobby said:

 

And if you read what I said I also said I am not fragging him that much for it, just one data point in a series of issues

 

You've genuinely piqued my curiosity though. If you were Pegula, what would you have done?  Sean Mcvay? Draft Mahomes? Retain Gilmore? What of Dareus and Sammy? How would you have managed the cap? What would your minimal expectations have been in the next 3 years? 

[MAJBobby]

Just now, Seoulofstone said:

 

You've genuinely piqued my curiosity though. If you were Pegula, what would you have done?  Sean Mcvay? Draft Mahomes? Retain Gilmore? What of Dareus and Sammy? How would you have managed the cap? What would your minimal expectations have been in the next 3 years? 

 

Would not have Hired a Defensive Coach.  I would have drafted Mahomes, I would have tagged and shopped Gilmore.  I am fine with the Dareus Trade I would not have turned around and handed a bad contract to a lesser player in Star.  I would have moved Sammy as well and there was good value recieved (however I also would have picked up his 5th year option which would have increased that value of return.  And I like every other owner should expect by year three I am a legit contender

[dave mcbride]

45 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

That ship sailed when they passed on Josh Gordon.

 

I know most Bills fans didn't watch that epic Seattle/SF game last night but Gordon stepped in cold and got open and caught a couple slants that nobody on the Bills WR corps could have.    The second one was 3 feet from his body at hip level in heavy traffic and he caught it in stride in his hands like someone soft tossed him a loaf of bread.    And btw the dude can run 22mph on a go route too.  

 

Contrast that to the punt returner the Bills were trying to throw over the middle to in Cleveland who slowed down and tried to body catch a ball that was nowhere near his body.   A ball he should have been able to catch in stride and run with.   That was a good look for McBeane and Bills WR coach Chad Hall.   Lofton offered to help them out with the "minor" technique issue tho that was nice.

Yes, Gordon looked good. He's basically uncoverable on those throws. 

[Seoulofstone]

Just now, MAJBobby said:

 

Would not have Hired a Defensive Coach.  I would have drafted Mahomes, I would have tagged and shopped Gilmore.  I am fine with the Dareus Trade I would not have turned around and handed a bad contract to a lesser player in Star.  I would have moved Sammy as well and there was good value recieved (however I also would have picked up his 5th year option which would have increased that value of return.  And I like every other owner should expect by year three I am a legit contender

 

Agree with Dareus and Sammy. Do you think that 5th year option wasn't picked up to send a message? Do you think other coaches would have done a better job of bringing the players together and building an identity than McD? I realise it's conjecture just Interested in your thoughts. Could Mahomes have been a disaster without Andy Reid? With the lack of offensive weapons available to the Bills have resulted in the same outcome as what happened at the Rams considering the presence of the Patriots in division?  If the Bills had been dire in year 1 would that coach have kept his job? Would the immediate lack of success have resulted in a continuation of the downward spiral of the franchise. 

 

 I'm just saying the trouble with a sliding doors scenario is that what worked elsewhere might not have had the same results here. I guess we will never know

 

 My thing is I think it's better to be content with improvement than be wistful about something that can't be changed anyway when there is no guarantee that those choices would have worked out any better.

[MAJBobby]

8 minutes ago, Seoulofstone said:

 

Agree with Dareus and Sammy. Do you think that 5th year option wasn't picked up to send a message? Do you think other coaches would have done a better job of bringing the players together and building an identity than McD? I realise it's conjecture just Interested in your thoughts. Could Mahomes have been a disaster without Andy Reid? With the lack of offensive weapons available to the Bills have resulted in the same outcome as what happened at the Rams considering the presence of the Patriots in division?  If the Bills had been dire in year 1 would that coach have kept his job? Would the immediate lack of success have resulted in a continuation of the downward spiral of the franchise. 

 

 I'm just saying the trouble with a sliding doors scenario is that what worked elsewhere might not have had the same results here. I guess we will never know

 

 My thing is I think it's better to be content with improvement than be wistful about something that can't be changed anyway when there is no guarantee that those choices would have worked out any better.

 

Yes I think any coach can bring a team together.  Just because a team is perceived to over achieve doesn't mean they would not have come together for other coaches as well.  I tried to stay positive with the Process talk the culture stuff etc etc.  But as I have said elsewhere was good is a strong locker-room and culture if you cant bring in a troubled talent into that lockerroom.  It just becomes Confirmation Bias.  Look no further than Eagles and Browns loss.  Eagles in-fighting locker room issues etc etc come in and SMOKE the strong cultured team.  Browns Built a team with a bunch of me type players come in and Beat the Culture team.  

 

Why in Josh Allen Draft did we immediately have to trade up for a MLB?  Why wont this team do say what the Ravens did.  Drafted Lamar Jackson and when OFFENSE every other pick as well?  Then in this past year (while I like Oliver and think he will improve), could have easily went Offense there as well for your QB, or even traded down.  At on point they are even on record saying you do not need a NO1 WR.  

 

So After three offseasons we are RIGHT where we were before those three offseasons.  A good Defense, and a Bad Offense.  Now wait until this upcoming offseason when MORE assets are going to go to the defense.   Now you have a coaching staff coaching the agressiveness out of a QB, and want him to play like TT (whom they did already have).

 

Spinning Wheels

 

Edited November 12, 2019 by MAJBobby

[Seoulofstone]

7 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

 

Yes I think any coach can bring a team together.  Just because a team is perceived to over achieve doesn't mean they would not have come together for other coaches as well.  

 

Right but equally it could have been a complete failure right? McVay is absolutely the exception to the norm. Even he walked into a team boasting the best RB and DT in the league with an enormous cap space? Since then they have made a bunch of flashy trades given out some bad contracts- Goff, Gurley for win now at the expense of the future. Now they are in cap hell and they aren't a contender. The first time he played BB he got embarrassed. How would he have done year 1 in Buffalo? Playoffs you think?

 

7 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

 

Why in Josh Allen Draft did we immediately have to trade up for a MLB?  Why wont this team do say what the Ravens did.  Drafted Lamar Jackson and when OFFENSE every other pick as well?  Then in this past year (while I like Oliver and think he will improve), could have easily went Offense there as well for your QB, or even traded down.  At on point they are even on record saying you do not need a NO1 WR.  

 

They need to set up an infrastructure first. I completely agree that they need to invest in O. I think most people on this board would agree, the only exception being pass rush.

 

7 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

 

So After three offseasons we are RIGHT where we were before those three offseasons.  

 

 

 I know that you won't accept ending the playoff drought as significant. But contrast the Bills future with the Rams. One team has scope to be better, the other has no wiggle room with the cap and FA, a retiring LT with no high draft capital, a broken RB and wishy washy QB. It was fun for the fans while it lasted but how many more SBs did McVay win from a much better starting point?

[MAJBobby]

Just now, Seoulofstone said:

 

Right but equally it could have been a complete failure right? McVay is absolutely the exception to the norm. Even he walked into a team boasting the best RB and DT in the league with an enormous cap space? Since then they have made a bunch of flashy trades given out some bad contracts- Goff, Gurley for win now at the expense of the future. Now they are in cap hell and they aren't a contender. The first time he played BB he got embarrassed. How would he have done year 1 in Buffalo? Playoffs you think?

 

 

They need to set up an infrastructure first. I completely agree that they need to invest in O. I think most people on this board would agree, the only exception being pass rush.

 

 

 I know that you won't accept ending the playoff drought as significant. But contrast the Bills future with the Rams. One team has scope to be better, the other has no wiggle room with the cap and FA, a retiring LT with no high draft capital, a broken RB and wishy washy QB. It was fun for the fans while it lasted but how many more SBs did McVay win from a much better starting point?

 

Cap hell is a joke.  Every Year teams are talked about in cap hell and sign players. 

 

What infrastructure needs to be set up in using your picks in the draft you Drafted your QB to support your QB?

 

No the playoff drought was a joke, but cool it is gone, what lives is the 23 year since a playoff win.  So to say one is significant while ignoring the one that is REALLY the issue is well disingenuous.  

 

I am willing to Bet the Rams win a playoff game before the Bills do

[Seoulofstone]

9 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

 

Cap hell is a joke.  Every Year teams are talked about in cap hell and sign players. 

 

Sure you can push back money but in the end the bill comes due.

 

9 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

 

What infrastructure needs to be set up in using your picks in the draft you Drafted your QB to support your QB?

 

Glad you asked. The responsible way to run a franchise is through the draft retaining the best players. NE has been doing this for years. It creates an environment of stability..

   The irresponsible way is to go Bill OBrien and give up future draft picks to win now and mortgage the future while at the same time failing to achieve a SB. 3 years ago LAR and HT had great players and a ton of cap. Now they can say their teams have looked good during that time but they didn't win. Whoever picks up the job when they leave will have to tear it all down to have a chance to reset. That is the situation McD inherited. That's why it's unfair to assume McVay would have walked in and taken the Bills to a Superbowl.

HC gets to choose O or D. Obviously fans want O but then our job isn't resting on the outcome is it?

 

9 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

 

I am willing to Bet the Rams win a playoff game before the Bills do

 

As a Bills fan that saddens me. 

[MAJBobby]

4 minutes ago, Seoulofstone said:

 

Sure you can push back money but in the end the bill comes due.

 

 

Glad you asked. The responsible way to run a franchise is through the draft retaining the best players. NE has been doing this for years. It creates an environment of stability..

   The irresponsible way is to go Bill OBrien and give up future draft picks to win now and mortgage the future while at the same time failing to achieve a SB. 3 years ago LAR and HT had great players and a ton of cap. Now they can say their teams have looked good during that time but they didn't win. Whoever picks up the job when they leave will have to tear it all down to have a chance to reset. That is the situation McD inherited. That's why it's unfair to assume McVay would have walked in and taken the Bills to a Superbowl.

HC gets to choose O or D. Obviously fans want O but then our job isn't resting on the outcome is it?

 

 

As a Bills fan that saddens me. 

NE routinely trades for players. 

[Seoulofstone]

19 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

NE routinely trades for players. 

 

How is their cap space? When was the last time BB used a future 1st to pick up a player? He plays the comp pick game to perfection so he nearly always has extra picks anyway. Example-release Jamie Collins pick up comp 3. Collins misused at Cleveland. Cut. Pat's pickup on waivers. Best NE LB this year?

 

Edited November 12, 2019 by Seoulofstone

[MAJBobby]

1 minute ago, Seoulofstone said:

 

When was the last time BB used a future 1st to pick up a player? He plays the comp pick game to perfection so he nearly always has extra picks anyway. How is their cap space? 

sure it was what 2017 a first and a 3rd for Brandon Cooks 

 

2017 traded a 2nd for Kony Ealy. There are a ton of history of them even recent trading high picks for players 

[Seoulofstone]

10 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

sure it was what 2017 a first and a 3rd for Brandon Cooks 

 

2017 traded a 2nd for Kony Ealy. There are a ton of history of them even recent trading high picks for players 

 

  Ok. But they won a SB that year and then got MORE in return the following year from LA. Ealy was a disaster but like I said they have so many comp picks it barely makes a difference. They are in a position to afford to take a gamble because of the stability of their organizational model. They aren't leaving themselves without draft capital or sailing close to the cap. 

 

Anyway I enjoyed this but it's time for tacos 

 

On topic- Preston Brown is not the answer.

Edited November 12, 2019 by Seoulofstone

[Your Brown Eye]

7 hours ago, Coach Tuesday said:

Do it.  Put him at the Mike and move Edmunds to the Elephant role, let him rush the passer where he has a chance to be ELITE.  You want to shake things up and tilt the field a bit?  Time to make a move, McBeane.

 

You mean bring back the guy who watched Gronk put a forearm into the back of Tre Whites neck and not do a damn thing about it? Yeah let's bring his candy*** back  ?

[oldmanfan]

2 hours ago, MAJBobby said:

Am I so still waiting on your take on Julian Stanford and Corey Thomas being better depth than Brown.  Dont worry I know I wont get that either.

I think they both know the defense better, they are both more mobile in the passing game, and I don’t see Brown being an upgrade in the run defense based on watching him here for several years.

 

Am I so still waiting?  As I said above folks, you can’t make this stuff up.

[HOUSE]

This will ruin the Bengals playoff chances

[billsbackto81]

3 hours ago, MJS said:

I don't even even think he's a good run stuffer. He's more like an aggregate tackler. Always in the vicinity making clean up tackles, but never actually making impact plays.

 

He's a perfect backup, though. Not good enough to start, but a consistent body that can make backles.

Fixed it.

[YoloinOhio]

 

[HOUSE]

I have heard of him...get er done

[Punching Bag]

On 11/12/2019 at 10:35 AM, SydneyBillsFan said:

Wasn't he the number one ranked tackler in the NFL in 2017?

 

He must have dropped right off the edge of the cliff this year.

 

Actually he made more tackles in partial year this year than he did last year but he only played 7 games last year for he ended up on injured reserve with a knee injury last season,.

He fell off a cliff on tackling when he left Buffalo.

 

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/bengals-cut-preston-brown-less-than-a-year-after-signing-him-to-a-three-year-16-5-million-deal/

From 2014-17, he racked up 505 total tackles -- only two All-Pro players, Bobby Wagner and Luke Kuechly, had more in that span. 

Defense & Fumbles

 

					Games		Def Interceptions					Fumbles						Tackles
Year	Age	Tm	Pos	No.	G	GS	Int	Yds	TD	Lng	PD	FF	Fmb	FR	Yds	TD	Sk	Comb	Solo	Ast	TFL	QBHits	Sfty	AV
Career					80	77	5	66	1	43	14	3	0	5	30	0	1.0	599	342	257	21	12		34
4 yrs		BUF			64	62	3	46	1	43	10	2	0	4	30	0	1.0	505	289	216	21	12		31
2 yrs		CIN			16	15	2	20	0	18	4	1	0	1	0	0		94	53	41	0	0		3
2014	22	BUF	LB	52	16	14	1	0	0	0	2	0	0	1	30	0		109	66	43	6	1		8
2015	23	BUF	MLB	52	16	16	2	46	1	43	4	1	0	1	0	0		117	63	54	3	6		9
2016	24	BUF	MLB	52	16	16	0	0	0	0	1	1	0	2	0	0	1.0	135	76	59	5	3		7
2017	25	BUF	lb/MLB	52	16	16	0	0	0	0	3							144	84	60	7	2		7
2018	26	CIN	lb/mlb	52	7	7	2	20	0	18	4							42	27	15	0	0		3
2019	27	CIN	LB	52	9	8						1	0	1	0	0		52	26	26	0	0