100% problem with the Deep Ball this year.

[BarleyNY]

10 hours ago, Billever76 said:

Have you seen some games?...we ran it i think like 17 times this past game...of those runs like 4 of those were allen scrambles....so we ran the ball with our rbs like 13 times yet passed it 41 times...whats the math on that?

What was our run to pass ratio against philly with 45mph winds?...what was our run to pass against the pats?...in all our losses dabol has abandoned the run..its facts..now go draw up them pass to run in our losses and get back to me...i wouldnt count allen scrambles as those were mostly designed passes besides a few designed runs....we got our asses kicked everytime dabol has abandoned the run....now we can even argue had he ran yesterday more and against the pats we are sitting at 8-1 now and leading the division

So you don’t think other teams adjust?  When teams are getting beaten by the run they don’t stack the box and dare the Bills to beat them through the air?  You aren’t seeing this?  Heard this discussed on 550 yesterday afternoon.  They said that the Bills were rushing for 3 YPC against 8 or more in the box against Cleveland.  If you can’t trust your offense to be successful through the air when that happens, then your problem should be obvious.  (Hint: It’s not that the OC should keep running the ball.)

[USABuffaloFan]

4 hours ago, CheshireCT said:

definitely no explanation for that. I was just as baffled as you in those instances. How many times has that happened? Anyone count?

Since he can't hit them, not even close , then they should be going with players like Knox that can take a 10-20 yard and turn upfield. The Long play doesn't have to go 30-6- yards in the air, Josh isn't ready for that nor are the WR's. Josh would best be served with play action, rollouts, etc.. Once in awhile go No Huddle. 

[USABuffaloFan]

2 hours ago, Don Otreply said:

Only one, his name is Duke Williams...

 

Go Bills!!!

That is absurd, Brown has 9 games with 50 plus yards, 1st time in Bills history. The problem is Josh is inconsistent with throws and can't go long right now. Beasley and Brow catch 90% of what is catch-able. Knox I would trust too. Singletary is a playmaker in the open field. Right now I think OC #1 problem, O-line #2 and Josh#3. We only lost one game bad.

[USABuffaloFan]

2 hours ago, JayBaller10 said:

Most of us were skeptical about an underperforming Mountain West QB becoming a franchise QB at the most difficult level of football. Every stat that was pulled suggested he‘d be an NFL bust, I remember one had the likelihood at 81%! While I wouldn’t call him a bust, I don’t think he’ll ever be anything more than an average or slightly above average QB. All the traits required to be an elite signal caller - timing, touch, anticipation, accuracy, field vision - he struggles at every single one. Asking and/or expecting him to make giant leaps of improvement in those areas is probably unfair to him. He is what he is and what he is isn’t good enough.

He already is better than average, this is not his fault. OC is all over the place and isn't reining him in. Josh should call the play called and not be changing it. Read his progressions till he has enough experience. The QB doesn't have a 300 yard game yet. But he has 7 comeback wins. The best QB rating in the 4th quarter. He is inconsistent but far from being a BUST. That said, I am not into wasting a 6-3 record. If Josh is off then let him watch Barkley for a quarter, see if that works. you can talk to him on the sidelines and show him the defense. Maybe Barkley starts the 1st quarter, lets Josh settle. Also start teaching to throw long on 1st down or 2nd and short. Don't go 60 yards down field, try 40, then 50, then 60. Time it so he throws to a spot the receiver runs to. Josh can't hit a player with touch yet that far on the fly. Mostly Josh should be playing play action and on the move by plan so o-line knows where he is. Best plays are coming from there. 

Edited November 12, 2019 by USABuffaloFan

[x-BillzeBubba]

pretty sure he hits on the right yardages when they do it in practice so it seems he gets a case of adrenaline arm in game situations. ..just needs more reps and it will happen  (I hope )

[Don Otreply]

9 minutes ago, USABuffaloFan said:

That is absurd, Brown has 9 games with 50 plus yards, 1st time in Bills history. The problem is Josh is inconsistent with throws and can't go long right now. Beasley and Brow catch 90% of what is catch-able. Knox I would trust too. Singletary is a playmaker in the open field. Right now I think OC #1 problem, O-line #2 and Josh#3. We only lost one game bad.

The question is going for a contested catch/ high pointing a catch, not who has what percentage of catchable balls, I did not say anything about our QBS, and yes he needs to get better, that’s a given. But Williams can get a contested catch, of our receivers he is most likely the best at doing so. It’s his thing so to speak. Respectfully I think you may have missed my point.

 

Go Bills!!!

[USABuffaloFan]

2 hours ago, klos63 said:

So one good game in about 6 years of being on a roster... against one of the worst teams in the league.

He has had more than one. He was very good at USC, play 4 years, two very good. Almost a projected 1st round player his JR year. He has been a backup, so was Fitz but Barkley has more upside. He played well for Chicago in 2016 had a few 300+ games. Yes he had that Jets game. That is why he is a backup, not enough NFL game tape. But he has shown he can move the Bills in Preseason, often is more consistent then Josh. He isn't a franchise QB but could come in for a quarter if Josh starts bad. I would always go back to Josh but maybe Barkley can help and give Josh a quarter to settle down. If OC tells Josh he is the man, stand next to me and figure out what can beat this team, then send him back in. Right now we are not getting 4 quarters of good football from Josh, he needs some help!

11 minutes ago, x-BillzeBubba said:

pretty sure he hits on the right yardages when they do it in practice so it seems he gets a case of adrenaline arm in game situations. ..just needs more reps and it will happen  (I hope )

Teach him 1st to throw to yard markers, the touch comes later. 5 step drop fire 40 yards here. Let WR get there. 

Edited November 12, 2019 by USABuffaloFan

[thebandit27]

23 minutes ago, USABuffaloFan said:

 Knox I would trust too. 

 

You would trust Knox? To do what?

 

His drop rate is 16.1%, which is atrocious.

https://www.rotowire.com/football/player.php?id=13466

 

Are you purposely putting out misinformation here?

[USABuffaloFan]

3 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

 

You would trust Knox? To do what?

 

His drop rate is 16.1%, which is atrocious.

https://www.rotowire.com/football/player.php?id=13466

 

Are you purposely putting out misinformation here?

Knox has our one big play, caught it 20 yards and took it over 50 bowling people over. That means he has caught it 84% of the time, let that be 20 yards down the field.

16 minutes ago, Don Otreply said:

The question is going for a contested catch/ high pointing a catch, not who has what percentage of catchable balls, I did not say anything about our QBS, and yes he needs to get better, that’s a given. But Williams can get a contested catch, of our receivers he is most likely the best at doing so. It’s his thing so to speak. Respectfully I think you may have missed my point.

 

Go Bills!!!

How can he catch a ball when he can't even get on the field. Had one good game then missing next game and hurt. If that is your answer we are in trouble. I like the kids upside but most of that was in the CFL!

Edited November 12, 2019 by USABuffaloFan

[USABuffaloFan]

13 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

I blame the new math.  In what universe is 56.77% equal to three to one? We're 10th highest in the league in run percentage.

We had 14 run plays 40 pass, Josh ran on 4 of those. I would say we are a passing team, not 50/50

[klos63]

2 hours ago, uticaclub said:

He’s played in less games than Allen, maybe he needs time to develop 

he's had 6 years to develop, he wasn't worth the time.

19 minutes ago, USABuffaloFan said:

He has had more than one. He was very good at USC, play 4 years, two very good. Almost a projected 1st round player his JR year. He has been a backup, so was Fitz but Barkley has more upside. He played well for Chicago in 2016 had a few 300+ games. Yes he had that Jets game. That is why he is a backup, not enough NFL game tape. But he has shown he can move the Bills in Preseason, often is more consistent then Josh. He isn't a franchise QB but could come in for a quarter if Josh starts bad. I would always go back to Josh but maybe Barkley can help and give Josh a quarter to settle down. If OC tells Josh he is the man, stand next to me and figure out what can beat this team, then send him back in. Right now we are not getting 4 quarters of good football from Josh, he needs some help!

Teach him 1st to throw to yard markers, the touch comes later. 5 step drop fire 40 yards here. Let WR get there. 

He's had 3 300 yard games in his career. In those 3 games, he's thrown 10 interceptions. Yes, he played well in college and in some preseason games. Basically against players that aren't NFL players.  This team is Allens, he's not bad that he needs to be benched ,just needs to improve a lot

[USABuffaloFan]

15 minutes ago, klos63 said:

he's had 6 years to develop, he wasn't worth the time.

He's had 3 300 yard games in his career. In those 3 games, he's thrown 10 interceptions. Yes, he played well in college and in some preseason games. Basically against players that aren't NFL players.  This team is Allens, he's not bad that he needs to be benched ,just needs to improve a lot

I wouldn't call it a bench. Other players come in and out and Josh starts but if he is off and throwing behind players in the 1st quarter why wouldn't you play someone else and talk to your player getting his head in the game. Josh is not Jim Kelly, it was obvious Kelly had the stuff, even when he was throwing 25-30 INT's. Obvious Josh is talented but he is far from a franchise guy at this moment.

[thebandit27]

35 minutes ago, USABuffaloFan said:

Knox has our one big play, caught it 20 yards and took it over 50 bowling people over. That means he has caught it 84% of the time, let that be 20 yards down the field.

How can he catch a ball when he can't even get on the field. Had one good game then missing next game and hurt. If that is your answer we are in trouble. I like the kids upside but most of that was in the CFL!

 

He's caught 84% of his targets despite 92% of them being catchable.

 

His drop rate is terrible, and yet you "trust" him? 

 

That, coupled with the phony stats you posted in the OP, makes me doubt just about everything you're saying here 

[USABuffaloFan]

15 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

 

He's caught 84% of his targets despite 92% of them being catchable.

 

His drop rate is terrible, and yet you "trust" him? 

 

That, coupled with the phony stats you posted in the OP, makes me doubt just about everything you're saying here 

He is a rookie, has shown upside and far from the reason we lost 3 games. Get REAL! Our veteran Smith had two penalties and zero catches, how about Kroft. What TE are you going to throw too?

Edited November 12, 2019 by USABuffaloFan

[PaattMaann]

Josh Allen had a problem with the deep ball last year too...2 for 24, he just isnt accurate deep...simple

[USABuffaloFan]

On 11/11/2019 at 9:51 AM, BillsBlue said:

Exactly how I feel about Josh and the deep ball he's just scared of throwing picks 

Josh's picks came from pressure and just tossing the ball. He flat out is just gunning the ball and always has. He has time now to throw and isn't timing his passes properly. Before he would be running around then chuck it, probably around 4-5 seconds and it would get to the WR. Now he is going back 3 seconds and throwing. .25 or less in seconds but that time is needed for WR to get to the ball. Josh needs to time better, that is his job.

6 minutes ago, PaattMaann said:

Josh Allen had a problem with the deep ball last year too...2 for 24, he just isnt accurate deep...simple

 

6 minutes ago, PaattMaann said:

Josh Allen had a problem with the deep ball last year too...2 for 24, he just isnt accurate deep...simple

He only had Foster last year, Benjamin sucked and Zay just couldn't do it.

1 hour ago, Don Otreply said:

The question is going for a contested catch/ high pointing a catch, not who has what percentage of catchable balls, I did not say anything about our QBS, and yes he needs to get better, that’s a given. But Williams can get a contested catch, of our receivers he is most likely the best at doing so. It’s his thing so to speak. Respectfully I think you may have missed my point.

 

Go Bills!!!

Also, your playing for the jump ball?

[PaattMaann]

18 minutes ago, USABuffaloFan said:

Josh's picks came from pressure and just tossing the ball. He flat out is just gunning the ball and always has. He has time now to throw and isn't timing his passes properly. Before he would be running around then chuck it, probably around 4-5 seconds and it would get to the WR. Now he is going back 3 seconds and throwing. .25 or less in seconds but that time is needed for WR to get to the ball. Josh needs to time better, that is his job.

 

He only had Foster last year, Benjamin sucked and Zay just couldn't do it.

Also, your playing for the jump ball?

 I dont care who he has to throw the ball to, wouldnt matter if Randy Moss or Jerry Rice were out there, they dont have a prayer at catching balls that are 15 yards past them...the issue isnt whos playing WR (on deep balls), its whos throwing them

[thebandit27]

26 minutes ago, USABuffaloFan said:

He is a rookie, has shown upside and far from the reason we lost 3 games. Get REAL! Our veteran Smith had two penalties and zero catches, how about Kroft. What TE are you going to throw too?

 

Saying that he's the only practical option at TE is a FAR different statement than stating that he's a trusted pass catcher, which is what you said.

 

He's the opposite of that--unreliable. He drops the ball. A lot.

Just now, PaattMaann said:

 I dont care who he has to throw the ball to, wouldnt matter if Randy Moss or Jerry Rice were out there, they dont have a prayer at catching balls that are 15 yards past them...the issue isnt whos playing WR (on deep balls), its whos throwing them

 

So neither Moss nor Rice would've caught the deep ball that Brown dropped against Norman last week?

 

 I disagree 

[USABuffaloFan]

14 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

Not really buying that the problem is that he doesn't want to throw INTs. No QB in history wants to throw INTs. And yet many manage to hit some deep balls.

 

The problem is much more likely mechanics. Young guy panic. An unwillingness / inability to throw it high and let guys run under it. That sort of thing.

A true Gunslinger cares less about INT's or they wouldn't be a Gunslinger! The more you sling the more you hit! Ask Favre.

[BarleyNY]

Does anyone seriously think the problem with our offense is the TEs?

[USABuffaloFan]

12 hours ago, 34-78-83 said:

Nope, not close.

Allen connects on many , MANY types of passes that Tyrod wouldn't dream of releasing.

Allen a better runner and also a better passer. Allen needs consistency and a better OC will do that for him.

[BarleyNY]

4 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

 

So neither Moss nor Rice would've caught the deep ball that Brown dropped against Norman last week?

 

 I disagree 

It’s funny.  When we drafted Allen I said that if we want him to be successful we’re going to have to treat him like Duante Culpepper and find him a Moss and Carter to run under deep balls he chucks up for grabs.  That’s absolutely a viable way to run an offense, but let’s not pretend that it wouldn’t be covering up a big QB deficiency with great WR talent.  It’s also viable to find a QB who can throw accurately and beat man coverage somewhere other than short and over the middle. 

[USABuffaloFan]

6 minutes ago, BarleyNY said:

Does anyone seriously think the problem with our offense is the TEs?

Someone here thinks Knox is.

1 minute ago, BarleyNY said:

It’s funny.  When we drafted Allen I said that if we want him to be successful we’re going to have to treat him like Duante Culpepper and find him a Moss and Carter to run under deep balls he chucks up for grabs.  That’s absolutely a viable way to run an offense, but let’s not pretend that it wouldn’t be covering up a big QB deficiency with great WR talent.  It’s also viable to find a QB who can throw accurately and beat man coverage somewhere other than short and over the middle. 

 

1 minute ago, BarleyNY said:

It’s funny.  When we drafted Allen I said that if we want him to be successful we’re going to have to treat him like Duante Culpepper and find him a Moss and Carter to run under deep balls he chucks up for grabs.  That’s absolutely a viable way to run an offense, but let’s not pretend that it wouldn’t be covering up a big QB deficiency with great WR talent.  It’s also viable to find a QB who can throw accurately and beat man coverage somewhere other than short and over the middle. 

Bills make it seem impossible

[nickrage]

An int on Allen’s deep ball is basically a punt

let him rip it

[PaattMaann]

21 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

 

Saying that he's the only practical option at TE is a FAR different statement than stating that he's a trusted pass catcher, which is what you said.

 

He's the opposite of that--unreliable. He drops the ball. A lot.

 

So neither Moss nor Rice would've caught the deep ball that Brown dropped against Norman last week?

 

 I disagree 

 

I was only referring to this weeks deep ball problems, he wasnt even close...im not talking about all deep passes this year, my bad for not being specific 

[oldmanfan]

God, these threads are tiresome.

 

Here is the reality:

 

Josh Allen is the starting QB for the Buffalo Bills.  He will start this entire year unless he gets hurt.  Barkley is a backup, and will not be starting any games this year.  Josh Allen is not a perfect QB yet, which is by far more the rule than the exception for second year QBs.  He needs to be on the field to give this team the best chance to win games. 

 

He needs to do better with reads.  Everyone can see that. 

 

He needs to play better in the middle of games, generally starts out OK and obviously is a very good 4th quarter guy.  Everyone should also see that. 

 

When he makes his reads correctly and delivers the ball, he is very much on target with his receivers. Everyone who is watching objectively should see that.  

 

He is a threat with his feet as well, which gives him a skill set others don't have.  Everyone can see that.

 

He needs to figure out which guys to go to quicker, and he has to quit being afraid to throw picks on his long bombs; if they get picked it's basically a punt anyway.  Everyone (except maybe Daboll) sees that. 

 

He will either get better with his reads and such over the course on his season and next, or he won't.  If he does, he is poised to be really good.  If he doesn't then he won't be the guy.  But the only way to find that out is to play him, and bottom line is playing him (along with a strong D, which is what McD and Beane set out to do) the Bills are 6-3 and currently in 5th in the conference. 

 

We all need to quit trying to put so much emphasis on different metrics, and quit using them to change the discussion about the kid.  Last year it was \the magical completion percentage of 60%.  Early in the year it was clear he figured that out, so the metric changed to 300 yard games.  When data was shown that 300 yard games and wins don't really correlate, all of a sudden it switched to completion percentage for long passes.  When he hits a couple of those God knows what the next pivot will be to try and denigrate the kid.

 

I have no idea if he will be the guy in Buffalo for the next 20 years.  I hope so, I think any young QB that shows what he does in the fourth quarter of games has a really good shot at being the guy.  No question he has to improve his performances, has to improve his reads so the offense is more effective.  It's also true that receivers need to catch the ball when thrown to them,  It's also true the line has to provide more consistent protection.  It's also true the OC needs to get the most talented guys he has on the field (Singletary) and get them the ball. 

 

Let the kid play, let him develop, let him use his strengths as a player and let him (hopefully) shore up his weaknesses. 

 

 

[thebandit27]

5 minutes ago, PaattMaann said:

 

I was only referring to this weeks deep ball problems, he wasnt even close...im not talking about all deep passes this year, my bad for not being specific 

 

Actually his first deep shot to Foster was money. TD if Ward doesn't interfere.

[BuffaloBillsGospel]

On 11/11/2019 at 9:49 AM, Allen2Moulds said:

Sorry if someone already made this point, but I'm at work and didn't have time to read through every post. 

 

Josh Allen is playing mistake free the last few games (bravo), but it's also severely hindering him.  The clear reason for not being able to connect on a deep ball, is his fear of throwing an interception.  As a result, the ball always ends up in no man's land.  Not only can it not be picked, but also has no chance of our guys coming down with it.  I mean, he hasn't even been close.  It's grossly overthrown every-time.  I've felt this way for weeks, but he just confirmed it in his post game presser.  They asked him if he can pin-point the reason, for not being able to hit the deep ball, and he just said, I don't know, followed by.......I don't know if I'm super anxious about under-throwing it, and getting an interception. The coaches have him playing scared. This is a major detriment to his development. News flash.....we are not winning the Super Bowl this year, but we have this special talent, that we need to develop. Peyton threw 33 picks his rookie year.  I'm sick of this ultra conservative approach.  The only we we are beating the better teams in this league, is if Josh plays up to his potential, and that's not happening with the leash that they have on him.  Let him go, and win or lose, live with the results.  We'll be better in the long run for it.

 

Unfortunately as fans of a losing team for over a decade, I think the real problem is us as fans expect instant gratification from Allen, it's clear he's developing each week but it can't come soon enough. He clearly needs time to develop much like Big Ben, Matthew Stafford, Jared Goff and the list goes on. I have no problem with what they're doing with Allen but the more baffling situation is the running game, if were game managing Allen why aren't we running the ball down teams throat to set up that big home run throw from Josh? To me that's the more pressing issue than Josh Allen, since imo I think he's developing nicely.

[PaattMaann]

13 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

 

Actually his first deep shot to Foster was money. TD if Ward doesn't interfere.

 

fair point there too, "on the shots that Josh took deep yesterday that were incomplete, and not interefered with, so the other 5ish, were no where near their targets, and it wouldnt have mattered who the WRs were". There. Pick that one apart BANDIT! : ) 

[thebandit27]

26 minutes ago, PaattMaann said:

 

fair point there too, "on the shots that Josh took deep yesterday that were incomplete, and not interefered with, so the other 5ish, were no where near their targets, and it wouldnt have mattered who the WRs were". There. Pick that one apart BANDIT! : ) 

 

Tyreek Hill would've caught up to the McKenzie deep throw

[BananaB]

1 hour ago, oldmanfan said:

God, these threads are tiresome.

 

Here is the reality:

 

Josh Allen is the starting QB for the Buffalo Bills.  He will start this entire year unless he gets hurt.  Barkley is a backup, and will not be starting any games this year.  Josh Allen is not a perfect QB yet, which is by far more the rule than the exception for second year QBs.  He needs to be on the field to give this team the best chance to win games. 

 

He needs to do better with reads.  Everyone can see that. 

 

He needs to play better in the middle of games, generally starts out OK and obviously is a very good 4th quarter guy.  Everyone should also see that. 

 

When he makes his reads correctly and delivers the ball, he is very much on target with his receivers. Everyone who is watching objectively should see that.  

 

He is a threat with his feet as well, which gives him a skill set others don't have.  Everyone can see that.

 

He needs to figure out which guys to go to quicker, and he has to quit being afraid to throw picks on his long bombs; if they get picked it's basically a punt anyway.  Everyone (except maybe Daboll) sees that. 

 

He will either get better with his reads and such over the course on his season and next, or he won't.  If he does, he is poised to be really good.  If he doesn't then he won't be the guy.  But the only way to find that out is to play him, and bottom line is playing him (along with a strong D, which is what McD and Beane set out to do) the Bills are 6-3 and currently in 5th in the conference. 

 

We all need to quit trying to put so much emphasis on different metrics, and quit using them to change the discussion about the kid.  Last year it was \the magical completion percentage of 60%.  Early in the year it was clear he figured that out, so the metric changed to 300 yard games.  When data was shown that 300 yard games and wins don't really correlate, all of a sudden it switched to completion percentage for long passes.  When he hits a couple of those God knows what the next pivot will be to try and denigrate the kid.

 

I have no idea if he will be the guy in Buffalo for the next 20 years.  I hope so, I think any young QB that shows what he does in the fourth quarter of games has a really good shot at being the guy.  No question he has to improve his performances, has to improve his reads so the offense is more effective.  It's also true that receivers need to catch the ball when thrown to them,  It's also true the line has to provide more consistent protection.  It's also true the OC needs to get the most talented guys he has on the field (Singletary) and get them the ball. 

 

Let the kid play, let him develop, let him use his strengths as a player and let him (hopefully) shore up his weaknesses. 

 

 

Fans gotta relax and sit back and watch. They complain that we only eat ***** teams or only beat them because of their own mistakes and not the way we played. We also lost 2 games in the same fashion. 9 games into the season we have only let 1 game slip out of hand this year, that’s big for Buffalo. 
 

Allens the guy right now, it isn’t changing. Seems some people on this board go from one thing to the next with him. He cleans one thing up and they just move on bitching about something else....  

 

My biggest complaint about Taylor was when the game was on the line his play seemed to get worse. Allen is far from perfect and has a long way to go, but when times ticking down and we need a score he has done his job. With our defense that translates to Ws.  Years ago I seen an interview with Bellichick and they asked him what he liked most about Brady coming out of college, his answer was that at the end of games that’s when he played his best football. Its actually how Brady’s first few years in NE looked also.

 

Allens got a long way to go but has shown improvement along the way so far. Games aren’t gonna be perfect, possessions aren’t gonna be perfect but if he keeps finding away to put us in position to win that’s all that matters....Winning by 1 is the same as winning by 20, it just isn’t as flashy. 

Edited November 12, 2019 by BananaB

[blacklabel]

I agree that Josh seems to be in his head about the deep ball. He's clearly thinking way too much and not allowing himself to play and just rip it. I mean, obviously he's capable of it.  That deep shot to Foster last year against Jacksonville was pure beauty, especially with the way the pocket was imploding on him. I thought it was gonna be a sack and then suddenly the ball pops outta there and hits him in stride. 

 

I understand the coaching staff's tendency to teach him to err on the side of caution, though. I said this in another thread but offensively, they aren't at a point where they can't afford the random "heroball" turnover. The defense already carries this team as it is, they don't wanna be putting them back on the field an extra one or two or three times a game due to a turnover. And if those turnovers turn into points for the opponent, this offense just doesn't have the firepower yet to dig themselves out of a hole. As it stands right now, the model for this team is to play strong defense while protecting a lead. I don't know if that's why the offense seems to stall/get conservative once they do have a lead, but it'd be nice to see them keep their foot on the gas and really put teams away. Just don't think they're there yet. 

 

But once they have the roster and the offense where they want it, maybe they loosen the reins on Allen a little bit. Beane more or less said as much when they drafted him that they were alright with his over-aggressiveness in certain areas because they feel like his talent/positives outweigh the negatives. They just need to get to a point where they're able to take those chances and overcome them if they don't go their way. 

Edited November 12, 2019 by blacklabel

[GoBills808]

1 hour ago, thebandit27 said:

 

Tyreek Hill would've caught up to the McKenzie deep throw

McKenzie would have caught up to the McKenzie deep throw if he doesn't start looking for the ball over the wrong shoulder before it's even been thrown.

 

 

[Georgia Bill]

23 hours ago, jrober38 said:

 

The major issue is that Josh Allen routinely misses his receivers on deep balls by 10 yards.

 

No wide receiver in the NFL is going to make up for his area code accuracy. 

No doubt he's been overthrowing them.  But as others have mentioned I think he's had it drilled into his head that we need to be a ball control type of offense with very few turnovers.  So he's probably overly concerned with not throwing the ball deep enough which could give the defender a chance to pick it off. 

 

We have a catch-22 situation.  The only way Josh is going to get comfortable and accurate on deep throws is throwing a lot of them in game situations i.e. - working on the long ball.  But in the short term that would mean a likelihood of a lot of stalled drives and/or increased potential for interceptions - if he starts throwing them close to the receiver.  While we are in the playoff hunt (despite the fact that if we make it we aren't going anywhere) fans will crucify him for any of that if it costs us wins.  I think the bottom line is for now he should have no more than one deep throw per game unless/until we are eliminated from the playoffs.  If we are, we should take the shackles off and release the Kracken.   If he gets a lot of opportunities to throw deep without the  "don't cost us the playoffs" pressure, and still doesn't improve, well then we know what we have.  And frankly, I'm pretty happy with him without the deep ball, if it comes to that.  

[jrober38]

6 minutes ago, Georgia Bill said:

No doubt he's been overthrowing them.  But as others have mentioned I think he's had it drilled into his head that we need to be a ball control type of offense with very few turnovers.  So he's probably overly concerned with not throwing the ball deep enough which could give the defender a chance to pick it off. 

 

We have a catch-22 situation.  The only way Josh is going to get comfortable and accurate on deep throws is throwing a lot of them in game situations i.e. - working on the long ball.  But in the short term that would mean a likelihood of a lot of stalled drives and/or increased potential for interceptions - if he starts throwing them close to the receiver.  While we are in the playoff hunt (despite the fact that if we make it we aren't going anywhere) fans will crucify him for any of that if it costs us wins.  I think the bottom line is for now he should have no more than one deep throw per game unless/until we are eliminated from the playoffs.  If we are, we should take the shackles off and release the Kracken.   If he gets a lot of opportunities to throw deep without the  "don't cost us the playoffs" pressure, and still doesn't improve, well then we know what we have.  And frankly, I'm pretty happy with him without the deep ball, if it comes to that.  

 

I think he's just not a very good passer because that's what he's always been. 

 

Allen is an NFL QB. He should already know how to not miss receivers on throws more than 30 yards downfield by 10 yards. 

7 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

McKenzie would have caught up to the McKenzie deep throw if he doesn't start looking for the ball over the wrong shoulder before it's even been thrown.

 

 

 

His footwork and throwing motion couldn't look worse. 

 

His mechanics are just a mess.

 

This appears to be some sort of long developing corner route that Allen throws to the wrong shoulder. The ball should be thrown to the sideline so McKenzie can adjust his route and run underneath it.

 

In all seriousness the ball is thrown about 10-15 yards from the spot it should land which is much closer to the sideline.

Edited November 13, 2019 by jrober38

[Nextmanup]

8 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

God, these threads are tiresome.

 

Here is the reality:

 

Josh Allen is the starting QB for the Buffalo Bills.  He will start this entire year unless he gets hurt.  Barkley is a backup, and will not be starting any games this year.  Josh Allen is not a perfect QB yet, which is by far more the rule than the exception for second year QBs.  He needs to be on the field to give this team the best chance to win games. 

 

He needs to do better with reads.  Everyone can see that. 

 

He needs to play better in the middle of games, generally starts out OK and obviously is a very good 4th quarter guy.  Everyone should also see that. 

 

When he makes his reads correctly and delivers the ball, he is very much on target with his receivers. Everyone who is watching objectively should see that.  

 

He is a threat with his feet as well, which gives him a skill set others don't have.  Everyone can see that.

 

He needs to figure out which guys to go to quicker, and he has to quit being afraid to throw picks on his long bombs; if they get picked it's basically a punt anyway.  Everyone (except maybe Daboll) sees that. 

 

He will either get better with his reads and such over the course on his season and next, or he won't.  If he does, he is poised to be really good.  If he doesn't then he won't be the guy.  But the only way to find that out is to play him, and bottom line is playing him (along with a strong D, which is what McD and Beane set out to do) the Bills are 6-3 and currently in 5th in the conference. 

 

We all need to quit trying to put so much emphasis on different metrics, and quit using them to change the discussion about the kid.  Last year it was \the magical completion percentage of 60%.  Early in the year it was clear he figured that out, so the metric changed to 300 yard games.  When data was shown that 300 yard games and wins don't really correlate, all of a sudden it switched to completion percentage for long passes.  When he hits a couple of those God knows what the next pivot will be to try and denigrate the kid.

 

I have no idea if he will be the guy in Buffalo for the next 20 years.  I hope so, I think any young QB that shows what he does in the fourth quarter of games has a really good shot at being the guy.  No question he has to improve his performances, has to improve his reads so the offense is more effective.  It's also true that receivers need to catch the ball when thrown to them,  It's also true the line has to provide more consistent protection.  It's also true the OC needs to get the most talented guys he has on the field (Singletary) and get them the ball. 

 

Let the kid play, let him develop, let him use his strengths as a player and let him (hopefully) shore up his weaknesses. 

 

 

I hope the team is nowhere near as patient as you seem to be.

 

We will know everything we need to know about Josh Allen at the end of this season, assuming he plays all the games and stays healthy.

 

No reason to piss away a 3rd season with him as the QB.

 

 

[oldmanfan]

2 minutes ago, Nextmanup said:

I hope the team is nowhere near as patient as you seem to be.

 

We will know everything we need to know about Josh Allen at the end of this season, assuming he plays all the games and stays healthy.

 

No reason to piss away a 3rd season with him as the QB.

 

 

And that shows your lack of understanding.  

[jrober38]

4 minutes ago, Nextmanup said:

I hope the team is nowhere near as patient as you seem to be.

 

We will know everything we need to know about Josh Allen at the end of this season, assuming he plays all the games and stays healthy.

 

No reason to piss away a 3rd season with him as the QB.

 

 

 

Agreed.

 

If Allen is still near the bottom of the league in QB Rating at the end of the season we should cut bait on him.

 

The history of guys who struggled like Allen who went on to become successful after two years is few and far between. 

 

We won't do it, and everyone will go down with the ship next year. 

Edited November 13, 2019 by jrober38

[GoBills808]

9 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

 

His footwork and throwing motion couldn't look worse. 

 

His mechanics are just a mess.

 

This appears to be some sort of long developing corner route that Allen throws to the wrong shoulder. The ball should be thrown to the sideline so McKenzie can adjust his route and run underneath it.

 

In all seriousness the ball is thrown about 10-15 yards from the spot it should land which is much closer to the sideline.

Literally all of this is wrong. His footwork is fine. It's playaction into a 7 step drop, he hits his top and sets his feet, looks the safety off, and throws the ball exactly where it's supposed to be. His throwing motion is cut a little short because of the guy hitting him in the face, but his mechanics are fine. There's literally nothing to what you're saying on this play. 

 

 

It's a standard leak/mesh and he's running a seam...not a 'long developing corner'  lol. And McKenzie's looking for the ball before it's even been thrown. It's on the wideout not to panic. The ball's where it should be, McKenzie's not.

[jrober38]

7 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

Literally all of this is wrong. His footwork is fine. It's playaction into a 7 step drop, he hits his top and sets his feet, looks the safety off, and throws the ball exactly where it's supposed to be. His throwing motion is cut a little short because of the guy hitting him in the face, but his mechanics are fine. There's literally nothing to what you're saying on this play. 

 

 

It's a standard leak/mesh and he's running a seam...not a 'long developing corner'  lol. And McKenzie's looking for the ball before it's even been thrown. It's on the wideout not to panic. The ball's where it should be, McKenzie's not.

 

Sorry but it's not on the WR. The WR did his job and is wide open. 

 

Unfortunately our QB yet again overthrew a wide open receiver on a deep ball by a good 4-5 yards and it was no where close to being completed.