OldTimeAFLGuy Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 1 minute ago, vorpma said: To this day, the "talent Beane got rid of" have not done squat - all over paid with lack of class and character; so happy he cleaned house! ...he made the moves that were necessary to establish what type of environment he and McDermott wanted......painful?...yes?....is there ever a good time to do it?...nope.....bite the bullet and "no guts...no glory...no bawls...no blue chips"......was comical to sit back and watch the "TBD GM Wannabees (NEVER hired yet so noted)" chime in with , "...fire McBene...fire McDermott...hell fire the beerman......our clueless Owner sucks...." yada yada......the visual of that gang typing away from the safety of their "under the desk fortress" caused me to "double my monthly Depends budget".....BUT...I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night...SMH........... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLFan Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 I loved the selection of Zay Jones at the time and have been rooting for him to succeed. It is pretty obvious at this point that his game has taken a step back from even his minimally acceptable performance of last year. For his sake I hope he gets it together, but enough of the opportunity here. He simply did not step up. I do not understand it, and perhaps the coaches have a better idea as to why, but enough is enough. The NE game and his reaction to it sealed it for me. He was a liability on the field. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vorpma Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 1 hour ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said: ...he made the moves that were necessary to establish what type of environment he and McDermott wanted......painful?...yes?....is there ever a good time to do it?...nope.....bite the bullet and "no guts...no glory...no bawls...no blue chips"......was comical to sit back and watch the "TBD GM Wannabees (NEVER hired yet so noted)" chime in with , "...fire McBene...fire McDermott...hell fire the beerman......our clueless Owner sucks...." yada yada......the visual of that gang typing away from the safety of their "under the desk fortress" caused me to "double my monthly Depends budget".....BUT...I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night...SMH........... OldTimeAFLGuy rocks! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vorpma Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 1 hour ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said: ...he made the moves that were necessary to establish what type of environment he and McDermott wanted......painful?...yes?....is there ever a good time to do it?...nope.....bite the bullet and "no guts...no glory...no bawls...no blue chips"......was comical to sit back and watch the "TBD GM Wannabees (NEVER hired yet so noted)" chime in with , "...fire McBene...fire McDermott...hell fire the beerman......our clueless Owner sucks...." yada yada......the visual of that gang typing away from the safety of their "under the desk fortress" caused me to "double my monthly Depends budget".....BUT...I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night...SMH........... You know they will be back - all it takes is a loss or two! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WideNine Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 (edited) 15 hours ago, vorpma said: Just wait until Jones has a good day and the usual's on TBD will be out in numbers attacking "McBeane" and everything else the team has done; give it time! I'm going to go out on a limb and say this is not going to be a thing when Jones has "a good day". Even if Zay is able to catch some lobs elsewhere, this team needs receivers that can catch bullets. I was hoping Zay can find his game on a new team, but he and daddy need to be pros and STFU. Edited October 11, 2019 by WideNine 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ridgewaycynic2013 Posted October 11, 2019 Share Posted October 11, 2019 I recall watching a draft of house league baseball, boys age 11-12 years ago, and watched coaches pass on a good player, based upon who the parents were. Somehow I was reminded of this by the Zay situation. ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddyjj Posted October 11, 2019 Share Posted October 11, 2019 (edited) Perry Tuttle, James Hardy or Bucky Brooks scenario repeated. Highly rated college WRs Bills drafted that didn't pan out. Hardy had severe mental issues, Tuttle went to CFL and Bucky became a DB for Packers. I wish Zay the best. Should be okay in a West Coast system. Edited October 11, 2019 by freddyjj Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted October 11, 2019 Share Posted October 11, 2019 22 hours ago, SlimShady'sGhost said: oh goodie .... More Zay talk. (in) Honestly, haven't we beaten this horse to powdered dust? It is Bye week. What you want to talk about? Start a thread 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted October 11, 2019 Share Posted October 11, 2019 Athletic. Subscription. Free trial available. https://theathletic.com/1277203/2019/10/08/zay-jones-trade-josh-allens-deep-ball-and-playoff-chances-thoughts-on-the-bills-at-the-bye/ -I had forgotten that the Bills had traded away a 3rd round pick to move up in the 2nd round for Jones. Insult to injury -transcribes some McD quotes after the Pats game that I thought were telling: “There’s some plays in there where our offense has to become our defense and try and get some of those balls that were up there, become a defender and make sure they don’t come down with it,” Sean McDermott said." McDermott again: “I try and communicate, or over-communicate, to make sure there’s no gray area with any player, whether it’s Zay in this case, or any player,” McDermott said in his Monday news conference. “I think that’s a big part of being on the same page. And players, in my mind, function better when there’s clarity.” Fairburn sez: "Now the Bills’ receiver room has plenty of clarity, and it’s Williams who has a massive opportunity in front of him." Really does look as though a key takeaway for the Bills WR is: "fight for the damn ball, or move along" (that's not all there is to the article - Talks about Allen's deep ball and rushing, Bills D, etc) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted October 11, 2019 Share Posted October 11, 2019 12 hours ago, WideNine said: I'm going to go out on a limb and say this is not going to be a thing when Jones has "a good day". Even if Zay is able to catch some lobs elsewhere, this team needs receivers that can catch bullets. I was hoping Zay can find his game on a new team, but he and daddy need to be pros and STFU. I think we can bet on it that if Zay finds success with the Raiders while Duke and Knox struggle and teams shift coverage to Brown, there will be vocal critics of the move here. The way I see it, it's like your SO who treats you like scum. All about them and what they want, screams at you over small stuff (sometimes in public), you're tense and unhappy too often with them. So you break up. But for whatever reason (social groups, work, whatevs) you still see 'em. A month later they have a new squeeze and they're all lovey-dovey, accommodating, flexible, sweet. You're like "Damn, where did that come from?" and there's temptation to say "look what I gave up!" But you have to remember, whatever they are now and why, that's not who they were with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orlando Tim Posted October 11, 2019 Share Posted October 11, 2019 Zay is a player who needs a very specific QB to be good, and Allen is not it. He is limited in a bunch of ways and I am glad he gone since Duke I believe will fight for a jump ball a lot more than Zay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WideNine Posted October 11, 2019 Share Posted October 11, 2019 (edited) 3 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: I think we can bet on it that if Zay finds success with the Raiders while Duke and Knox struggle and teams shift coverage to Brown, there will be vocal critics of the move here. The way I see it, it's like your SO who treats you like scum. All about them and what they want, screams at you over small stuff (sometimes in public), you're tense and unhappy too often with them. So you break up. But for whatever reason (social groups, work, whatevs) you still see 'em. A month later they have a new squeeze and they're all lovey-dovey, accommodating, flexible, sweet. You're like "Damn, where did that come from?" and there's temptation to say "look what I gave up!" But you have to remember, whatever they are now and why, that's not who they were with you. I guess I am wired a bit weird... never assume that just because someone did not find success as a Bill that they cannot find their game in another system with other players. Does not change that that for some reason they were not a fit for my team, and good luck with all that. Just the running of the mouth thing bugs me, reminds me of all the lip KB sent the Panthers way before he under-performed his way off our roster then the Chiefs. Just not a good look for any professional athlete if they want to do themselves a favor as a pro that a GM will take a chance on, and as a player that may need to look in the mirror and be honest about the things they could do better. Josh tends to make later reads (as he learns defenses) and throwing with more anticipation is something he is working on, but he can still recover and throw to a spot because he throws on a rope and I don't think Zay has the hands for those kinds of throws. A QB who has less of an arm and has had to always read defenses well, and has always thrown with anticipation to a spot will not have as much on his ball and Zay may find more success. I prefer receivers that have the hands to handle the quick slants and deep outs because the ball is supposed to get there in a hurry. I think we may have found that receiver in Duke, and for the Bills sake and for Duke's I am hoping this chapter of Duke's life (especially when challenged by success) he keeps the off-field demons at bay. Edited October 11, 2019 by WideNine 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted October 11, 2019 Share Posted October 11, 2019 17 hours ago, KD in CA said: Lots of people never get past the college highlight film. And they were aghast when Beane "got rid of all the talent on the team" by shedding Watkins and fellow losers like Tyrod and Dareus. That's really a bit revisionist, don't you think? It's not just the moves they made to trade players away, but the timing and who they had to fill their roles. The problem with trading away Tyrod before the season then drafting Allen is it left us starting the season with a QB room of Peterman and a very raw rookie, and no vet in the room to help said rookie learn the ropes and transition to the NFL. Is that a defensible football decision? Do you really want to make that case? The Bills could do better, and did - once they signed Anderson and Barkley. They don't have to keep Tyrod, but don't you think that could have been handled better? Also, why keep Tyrod and win so much in 2017, then have to trade away so many pieces to move up for the QB? The problem with trading away Watkins when we did, right before the season, is that it left us with a WR room that improved during the season to Deonte Thompson, Zay Jones (R), Jordan Matthews, and Kelvin Benjamin. Jordan Matthews was traded in just before the season, Kelvin Benjamin and Deonte Thompson in late October. And the next year, Allen's rookie season, wasn't much better in WR depth with Zay Jones, Robert Foster, and Kelvin Benjamin. Those are just the best of their attempts - the Boldin and Corey Coleman acquisitions stand out. The guy in the "What to think about Josh Allen" article linked in a different thread, has a valid point that last season did Josh Allen's QB development no favors as far as the poor OL and WR corps. Look, we're winning now. It's great, and we finally look to have an adequate WR corps and OL, and I hope we keep winning. But let's not pretend that every move that Beane and McDermott have made is defensible from a football talent perspective. And just maybe, if Zay had started out his NFL career with a good WR corps and a decent NFL WR to learn from, his trajectory here would have been different. We'll never know now, that ship has sailed, but why crow about it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsMafia13 Posted October 11, 2019 Share Posted October 11, 2019 I posted this in another thread. But hypothetically, would you rather have Zay or Devante Parker? Im wondering what it would take to pry him from the phins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LABILLBACKER Posted October 11, 2019 Share Posted October 11, 2019 (edited) 17 hours ago, Maine-iac said: I still wouldn't be surprised to see Zay turn out to be a good receiver. We are a defense driven team. We play in a lot of low scoring closely contested games. A wide receiver who can't make make a big catch unless the ball is thrown at him 10 times a game is going to have some rough weeks here. The Raiders secondary is trash and Carr is most likely going to be throwing all day in come from behind games. I wouldn't be surprised at all to see Zay get on track if he gets the ball thrown at him 5 or 6 times a game for the rest of the season. He always had all the physical tools but for some reason he just couldn't put it together and most importantly he flat out dropped the ball too much. Zay just never progressed. He was supposed to be our #2 wr and now Smoke has taken a solid hold of that spot. Zays inconsistency to catch and fight for balls got him traded. Wish him the best but I highly doubt he plays well for Gruden? 10 minutes ago, BillsMafia13 said: I posted this in another thread. But hypothetically, would you rather have Zay or Devante Parker? Im wondering what it would take to pry him from the phins I'd rather have CeeDee Lamb in the late 1st round. But he'll probably be gone. Edited October 11, 2019 by LABILLBACKER Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted October 11, 2019 Share Posted October 11, 2019 19 hours ago, Maine-iac said: I still wouldn't be surprised to see Zay turn out to be a good receiver. We are a defense driven team. We play in a lot of low scoring closely contested games. A wide receiver who can't make make a big catch unless the ball is thrown at him 10 times a game is going to have some rough weeks here. The Raiders secondary is trash and Carr is most likely going to be throwing all day in come from behind games. I wouldn't be surprised at all to see Zay get on track if he gets the ball thrown at him 5 or 6 times a game for the rest of the season. He always had all the physical tools but for some reason he just couldn't put it together and most importantly he flat out dropped the ball too much. The benefit of doubt I think that was pointed out in a few articles is, he was drafted for a west coast timing system when the OC was Rico. At one point I saw him as being able to get to like an Allen Hurns sort of WR might still get there in the right system. Maybe catch accurate touch passes on slants one outs will do him some good. That’ll be Gruden and Raiders nations problem to figure out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted October 11, 2019 Share Posted October 11, 2019 2 hours ago, LABILLBACKER said: Zay just never progressed. He was supposed to be our #2 wr and now Smoke has taken a solid hold of that spot. Zays inconsistency to catch and fight for balls got him traded. Wish him the best but I highly doubt he plays well for Gruden? I'd rather have CeeDee Lamb in the late 1st round. But he'll probably be gone. Just curious why you say Smoke has ahlold of the #2 spot? He's our #1 right now, and his stats so far project out to a 1250 yd season. (knock wood, avert jinx) Kind of a nit I guess or peripheral to your main point, but it just seems to under-sell Smoke. My concern for him was that his best season was with Fitzgerald holding down the #1 position and drawing the coverage. The question was, would he be able to make the catches and put up the yards when he was the guy with the best CB over him? The answer seems to be "yes" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royale with Cheese Posted October 11, 2019 Share Posted October 11, 2019 You can find more psychedelic drugs in Oakland than Buffalo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted October 11, 2019 Share Posted October 11, 2019 18 hours ago, vorpma said: You know they will be back - all it takes is a loss or two! ...two?...seriously?.......forgot the "ONE and DONE Gang" did ya??........ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rochesterfan Posted October 12, 2019 Share Posted October 12, 2019 On 10/10/2019 at 11:03 AM, Shaw66 said: I agree. And articles that do that often have crap writing and analysis, like this one. Shallow. Very little take away - more like stupid excuses to click on their links. Wish you could undo clicks for poor lists like this. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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