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Is this the Bills best qb pair since Kelly-Reich

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55 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Completely different era.  We are in an era where Matt “Freakin” Stafford passes for 5,000 yards and Blake Bortels!!! Beat Kelly’s season high in yards twice!!!

 Are you implying that Matt Stafford is not a very good QB?

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10 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

So the QB rating can be compared between different eras, but not completion percentage.  Got it.

 

cherry-picking.jpg

 

 

 

Qb rating shouldn’t be compared either.  It’s a completely different league with much easier rules for qbs and receivers.   Kelly and those guys numbers would have looked much better in this era.   

 

I dont think a rational person can dispute that. 

3 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

 Are you implying that Matt Stafford is not a very good QB?

I definitely won’t say he’s very good.  He can be good and is probably middle of the pack in terms of starters.  He certainly isn’t on Marino’s level.  When Marino hit 5,000, 3,000 was the sign of a good passing season for a qb.  Again, Blake Bortels beat Jim Kelly’s season high in passing yardage twice!!!  It’s so much easier to put up stats now. 

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13 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Qb rating shouldn’t be compared either.  It’s a completely different league with much easier rules for qbs and receivers.   Kelly and those guys numbers would have looked much better in this era.   

 

I dont think a rational person can dispute that. 

 

Why, on earth, would I be talking about QB rating?  Oh .... that's right .... because you compared Allen/Barkley' QB rating to Kelly/Reich's.

 

QB rating is a craptastic statistic, regardless of era.

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2 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

Barkley doesn't.

He does if he's being compared to Reich. That was my point.

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8 minutes ago, klos63 said:

He does if he's being compared to Reich. That was my point.

 

 

If Allen plays well all year, Barkley won't play (well or poorly) at all when it counts.

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1 hour ago, Gugny said:

 

Why, on earth, would I be talking about QB rating?  Oh .... that's right .... because you compared Allen/Barkley' QB rating to Kelly/Reich's.

 

QB rating is a craptastic statistic, regardless of era.

So what stat matters then?  All numbers show Barkley is barely nfl caliber (I’m fine with him as a backup but he’s extremely replaceable) and Allen has some of the worst passing stats in the nfl.  Obviously this can all change but to just pretend like Barkley isn’t a bottom tier backup and Allen has made it at this point is kinda silly. 

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4 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

So what stat matters then?  All numbers show Barkley is barely nfl caliber (I’m fine with him as a backup but he’s extremely replaceable) and Allen has some of the worst passing stats in the nfl.  Obviously this can all change but to just pretend like Barkley isn’t a bottom tier backup and Allen has made it at this point is kinda silly. 

 

You are trying way too hard to go against the grain.  You need lessons from the other two.

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4 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

You are trying way too hard to go against the grain.  You need lessons from the other two.

You’re just rambling old man. 😉 I have no idea what point you’re making.  Even though every single evidence shows Allen (a rookie so he gets a pass) and Barkley have been below average passers (significantly), they are really good?  You’re the one going against the grain and you make no sense.  But enjoy your night of watching Matlock reruns.

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19 hours ago, MJS said:

Flutie / Johnson probably.

 

This until another pair makes the playoffs 

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4 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

You’re just rambling old man. 😉 I have no idea what point you’re making.  Even though every single evidence shows Allen (a rookie so he gets a pass) and Barkley have been below average passers (significantly), they are really good?  You’re the one going against the grain and you make no sense.  But enjoy your night of watching Matlock reruns.

it's funny how you had claimed to be a homer at one time, probably caught a bunch of slack for it too and now here you are coming in and crashing every (thread) party that may have optimism in regards to the team/players and you go out of your way to try and piss on the parade. pretty pathetic actually and when someone calls you out on it, you come back with the "old man" *****.

 

not cool at all.

 

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Another cart-before-the-horse thread.

 

Can this team accomplish something before we anoint Allen-Barkley as the next Kelly-Reich.

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15 minutes ago, njbuff said:

Another cart-before-the-horse thread.

 

Can this team accomplish something before we anoint Allen-Barkley as the next Kelly-Reich.

bugs ya doesn't it.

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With Flutie/Johnson as the only competition, the bar is set pretty low.  Flutie, in retrospect was misused and underappreciated by Buffalo.   Rob Johnson was also misused, but we can't really know if his ceiling was much higher than what we saw on the field.  In Josh Allen, we have an athletic QB who is showing the intelligence to work on and alleviate his weaknesses.  He remains a young QB, but his ceiling may include legitimate star potential.  Matt Barkley looks like an ideal backup: accurate, poised, supportive of the starter and having demonstrated the ability to step in and win games.  What more can you ask for?

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21 hours ago, Kelly the Dog said:

That's not the issue though. He was a great college QB. He was drafted in the fourth round because his arm was not NFL quality. He played on Philly and Chicago. He showed flashes but he failed, badly, because his arm is a liability. It's his only real liability but it's a HUGE one. It''s not likely to get better. Against the Jets he made about six really good plays. None of them showed real arm strength, his death knell. A few of his floaters luckily fell into Bills Wrs hands when defenders just missed them. He could have easily had two INTs on the throws he made. In practice and preseason he can excel like Peterman because the game is at 3/4 speed. But his arm cannot cash checks his head will make, and in the regular season, it's much more likely to be the Philly or Chicago Barkely than the Bills 2018 Jets game Barkley. His experience can only help him so much. There has only been one guy in the last 20-30 years that succeeded over time with an arm like that. If he had Trent Edwards' arm he would be a solid starter in this league.

 

Your also comparing a guy who played on a Chicago team that only won 3 games and that was really most of his experience.  He also played  in 3 games for the Eagles, never as a starter, came in when the starting QB got hurt.  Reich played on one of the most dominant teams in the league and for the most part knew ahead that he was starting.  Alot of Barkleys experience with the Eagles would be like comparing Reich's Super Bowl appearances in relief which also didn't go very well.   Barkley never had a good team around him with the Bears so makes it harder to look good, even decent.

 

Reich was drafted in the 3rd round in an era with less teams in the NFL therefore less picks per round. On top of that he didn't even play all that much in college, total of 18 games over 3 seasons finished with 10 TD's and 7 Int.

 

Not saying Barkley's arm isn't weak, but think you may be over-rating Reich here too by a stretch.

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1 minute ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

 

Your also comparing a guy who played on a Chicago team that only won 3 games and that was really most of his experience.  He also played  in 3 games for the Eagles, never as a starter, came in when the starting QB got hurt.  Reich played on one of the most dominant teams in the league and for the most part knew ahead that he was starting.  Alot of Barkleys experience with the Eagles would be like comparing Reich's Super Bowl appearances in relief which also didn't go very well.   Barkley never had a good team around him with the Bears so makes it harder to look good, even decent.

 

Reich was drafted in the 3rd round in an era with less teams in the NFL therefore less picks per round. On top of that he didn't even play all that much in college, total of 18 games over 3 seasons finished with 10 TD's and 7 Int.

 

Not saying Barkley's arm isn't weak, but think you may be over-rating Reich here too by a stretch.

Except I never once even considered Reich in anything I thought or said. I was only talking about Barkley being overrated by Bills fans. 

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All these comparisons are premature, lets see if this team wins a bunch of games before comparing them to teams/players from the early 90's.

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OK, putting “best” aside for a while, who would be the most entertaining? Kyle Orton has to be first string, I think. I’m torn between Fitz and JP for the backup. Who am I missing? I’ve probably whiffed on some good ones. 

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30 minutes ago, DaBillsFanSince1973 said:

bugs ya doesn't it.

 

How many times have we put our foots in our mouths in the past making these types of claims?

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4 minutes ago, njbuff said:

 

How many times have we put our foots in our mouths in the past making these types of claims?

14 hours ago, DaBillsFanSince1973 said:

they both have a long way to go before any comparisons can be made. until barkley leads the team to the greatest come back in nfl history, there will be no real comparison.

 

how about giving them a few seasons of work before jumping to any conclusion.

 

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Posted (edited)
47 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said:

Except I never once even considered Reich in anything I thought or said. I was only talking about Barkley being overrated by Bills fans. 

I think you fail to acknowledge any context with Barkley. I personally think the team that would be set up around him in buffalo if he has to step in lends itself quite well helping Barkley succeed. Revamped line, Wiley veteran rb’s who can catch out of the backfield, Cole Beasley and a defense that doesn’t look like they are gonna let games get away. 

 

Context. I think your hang up on arm strength in this situation is a little over blown. People keep bringing up his past failures. That’s sorta silly to me. How about we evaluate him on what matters? His time as a bill.... he’s played well in any opportunity so far 

 

i’m personally quite confident if Allen were to go down but the rest of the team was relatively healthy Barkley could keep us rolling to .500 or even a game up on that. 

Edited by Stank_Nasty

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Posted (edited)

If it is, that's a very sad statement about our franchise the past couple decades :(

For a moment, pretend you're not a diehard Bills fan. Pretend you live anywhere else and only follow the Bills like you or I would follow any other NFL team in general.

Imagine hearing someone say out loud "do you think Matt Barkley & Josh Allen are the best QB pair since Kelly & Reich for the Bills?" I feel you'd get a good amount of laughs mixed with some raised eyebrows.

Preseason means jack. Peterman looked great last preseason. Allen having 2 solid drives in 2 preseason games, combined with a guy we've seen play one regular season game since 2016, equals "best QB pair since____?" 

Really?! I feel like I'm in crazy land here... Having hope is one thing, but c'mon...Allen hasn't even proved himself to be a consistent starter yet, and Barkley? He COULD be whatever anyone wants to fantasize him to be! He COULD be the next Tom Brady too, s*** if I know. I mean his one start last season was our best offensive output of the year, so if we're going to make ANY judgement off of what we've seen in preseason & play with the Bills, he COULD be the real franchise QB of the 2, not Allen.

I mean, why not? If someone can make a determination about him being part of the "best" of anything Bills-related based on training camp, preseason & 1 regular season game, why can't he also be just the "best QB on the roster?" 

Anyway, I just can't wait for the real games to start and we can start evaluating people based on reality instead of what we hope.

Edited by BigDingus
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Tyrod/Cassel is right now better than Allen/Barkley. Preseason means nothing, folks... 

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On 8/16/2019 at 9:05 PM, Kelly the Dog said:

I hate to be a naysayer (not really) but Barkely is an average backup at best. He has played great since coming to the Bills but he would likely get murdered if he had to play a few games. Yes, he played great against the Jets, but he still has a rag arm that cannot consistently beat NFL defenses in the regular season. He's smart, and accurate, and a great teammate, and will help Josh, but 90% of Bills fans IMO are way, way, way wrong about him I fear.

So are you saying that Barkley is a back-up QB?

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19 hours ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

...honorable mention to "Nall Ball".......

 

I have fond memories of that 3-way QB competition.  I was pulling for Nall, solely because he was the guy I hadn't seen play.  🤣

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After reading the comments here, there is nothing like a good battle over QBs.

From watching Matt Barklay play in Buffalo I would say he is comparable to Nick Foles which is not bad considering he was a Superbowl MVP.

We need to let this play out. In his junior year Barklay was projected as the #1 selection in the NFL draft. His shoulder injury was a concern.

Mel Kiper screwed the young lad.....lol. Dropped to the 4th round.

 

 

 

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