Anti-mask laws.

[Azalin]

I'm curious as to what all of you think. Many places in the US actually have anti-mask laws on the books, but I don't know if any are enforced. From what I've read, many (if not most) were enacted as a measure against the KKK hiding their identities; some were passed as a way to discourage anonymous acts of violence in union/management and tenant/landlord disputes.  More recently, we've had the 99 percenters with their V masks, and now antifa with their ski masks. All concealing their identities in public to avoid being identified as having engaged in violence upon others.

 

Would the violence drop dramatically, if at all, if nobody was allowed to hide their faces in public? Would denying citizens the ability to mask themselves in public be a violation of their constitutional liberties?

Edited July 2, 2019 by Azalin

[Deranged Rhino]

It's a slippery slope concern for me -- so I'm torn on it. Personally I think you shouldn't allowed to be armed and masked in an "organized protest" situation... That seems like a good starting point. 

[/dev/null]

Yes, with 3 caveats:

Carrying a weapon while masked should be prohibited, either openly or concealed

If convicted of a crime while masked should carry jail time in addition to the original offenses

Refusal to remove the mask at the request of law enforcement, the property owner, or security in the employ of the property owner should be classified as either a low felony or high misdemeanour requiring jail time

[Tiberius]

7 hours ago, Azalin said:

I'm curious as to what all of you think. Many places in the US actually have anti-mask laws on the books, but I don't know if any are enforced. From what I've read, many (if not most) were enacted as a measure against the KKK hiding their identities; some were passed as a way to discourage anonymous acts of violence in union/management and tenant/landlord disputes.  More recently, we've had the 99 percenters with their V masks, and now antifa with their ski masks. All concealing their identities in public to avoid being identified as having engaged in violence upon others.

 

Would the violence drop dramatically, if at all, if nobody was allowed to hide their faces in public? Would denying citizens the ability to mask themselves in public be a violation of their constitutional liberties?

The new facial recognition technology is being used by authoritarian states to arrest and imprision pro-democracy demonstrators. I'd hate to see that used against people here, but I imagine it already probably is. 

[row_33]

You cannot enter a bank with a mask on, along with other scenarios.

 

 

[KRC]

I do not believe that it should be a crime to wear a mask. However, if you commit a crime (mask or not), you should be prosecuted. Don't have police stand down. Arrest them.

[row_33]

4 minutes ago, KRC said:

I do not believe that it should be a crime to wear a mask. However, if you commit a crime (mask or not), you should be prosecuted. Don't have police stand down. Arrest them.

 

Again you are restricted from wearing a mask in public under certain conditions

 

Attendance at what is guaranteed to be a violent riot should be grounds to stop you

 

Edited July 2, 2019 by row_33

[KRC]

10 minutes ago, row_33 said:

 

Again you are restricted from wearing a mask in public under certain conditions

 

Attendance at what is guaranteed to be a violent riot should be grounds to stop you

 

 

If it is guaranteed to be a violent riot, a mask does little to quell the situation. Granted, there are kitties who would act up when they think they are anonymous (the internet is a perfect example). However, if there are no consequences (police told to stand down), then they will be emboldened. ***** them up and the kitties will be less apt to contribute. At that point, it will just be the paid protestors, which you are not going to stop anyway.

[keepthefaith]

Only on Halloween should it be permitted to mask oneself. 

[Chef Jim]

27 minutes ago, KRC said:

I do not believe that it should be a crime to wear a mask. However, if you commit a crime (mask or not), you should be prosecuted. Don't have police stand down. Arrest them.

 

So what you’re saying is we should enforce the laws already written?  Such a radical thinker you are.  

[row_33]

10 minutes ago, KRC said:

 

If it is guaranteed to be a violent riot, a mask does little to quell the situation. Granted, there are kitties who would act up when they think they are anonymous (the internet is a perfect example). However, if there are no consequences (police told to stand down), then they will be emboldened. ***** them up and the kitties will be less apt to contribute. At that point, it will just be the paid protestors, which you are not going to stop anyway.

 

People tend to not be violent when they are easily identified

 

They call off a robbery when the police or suitable security is present 

[Bray Wyatt]

I said no, however it should have some caveats to it similar to free speech and yelling fire in a crowded theater.

[KRC]

15 minutes ago, row_33 said:

 

People tend to not be violent when they are easily identified

 

They call off a robbery when the police or suitable security is present 

 

I agree that you have a point. Burglars are more hesitant to break into the home of an NRA member.

 

However, my issue is the slippery slope. I would rather not create more laws to try and counteract the lack of enforcement of existing laws. Also, what masks are deemed unacceptable? Under what circumstances and who determines those circumstances? If someone wears a surgical mask to either prevent the spread of a disease or to protect a compromised immune system, is that banned? What about a hijab? Who determines what is acceptable and not and under what circumstances?

 

Start with enforcing existing laws.

[Buffalo_Gal]

13 minutes ago, Bray Wyatt said:

I said no, however it should have some caveats to it similar to free speech and yelling fire in a crowded theater.

I am pretty much here when thinking about this.  I hate that every times some loonie-tunes do something bad, non-criminals have to suffer and have their rights infringed upon. 

Maybe no masks during a public gathering when a permit is issued? But then what happens during a Mardi Gras parade?

A lot of southern states have anti-masking laws due to the KKK. They must have some loopholes for Halloween, costume parties, burqas, medical concerns? In the north, face coverings happen during the winter due to cold. Wouldn't a law against face-coverings lead to possible frostbite? 

[Koko78]

I voted no.

 

However, I would not be opposed to making it a charge/sentence enhancer to commit a violent crime while wearing a mask; akin to charging something in NY as a 'hate crime' (which increases the level of the charge).

[row_33]

35 minutes ago, KRC said:

 

I agree that you have a point. Burglars are more hesitant to break into the home of an NRA member.

 

However, my issue is the slippery slope. I would rather not create more laws to try and counteract the lack of enforcement of existing laws. Also, what masks are deemed unacceptable? Under what circumstances and who determines those circumstances? If someone wears a surgical mask to either prevent the spread of a disease or to protect a compromised immune system, is that banned? What about a hijab? Who determines what is acceptable and not and under what circumstances?

 

Start with enforcing existing laws.

 

goofballs destroying the windows of businesses and assaulting people, and the police are told not to do anything....

 

must be a public service of decency and christian charity

 

[IDBillzFan]

I genuinely don't think it should be illegal to wear a mask. I get that Antifa does it because they're too cowardly to show their faces, but if they're going to randomly crack the skull of fellow Americans, what makes anyone think they're standing around saying "Okay, lets beat the snottschitt out of the faggotchinaman, but don't wear a mask because we don't want to get in trouble."

 

In fact you could argue there are times you desperately need people to wear masks. Like for the cast of The View. Or any time Hillary is in public.

[row_33]

so those who voted "whenever and wherever I want",  you are fine with people entering a bank with a mask on, or people can apply for their drivers license (and eye test) while wearing a mask and unidentifiable?

 

they can vote while concealing their identity?

 

are you thinking at all???

 

 

Edited July 2, 2019 by row_33

[Buffalo_Gal]

37 minutes ago, row_33 said:

so those who voted "whenever and wherever I want",  you are fine with people entering a bank with a mask on, or people can apply for their drivers license (and eye test) while wearing a mask and unidentifiable?

 

they can vote while concealing their identity?

 

are you thinking at all???

 

 

1) Banks are private buildings and can make their own rules (some of the banks have "no masks, caps, sunglasses" signs now)

2) Hahahaha on  the DMV. Those people tell you what to do (take off those glasses, take off that hat, don't smile) and you better do it. Scary people. I think they were military police before signing on to the DMV.    There are written standards for passports now. 
 

[SoCal Deek]

Why not just make it a crime for governmental officials not to enforce the laws of the land? That should get the ball rolling!

[Taro T]

9 hours ago, /dev/null said:

Yes, with 3 caveats:

Carrying a weapon while masked should be prohibited, either openly or concealed

If convicted of a crime while masked should carry jail time in addition to the original offenses

Refusal to remove the mask at the request of law enforcement, the property owner, or security in the employ of the property owner should be classified as either a low felony or high misdemeanour requiring jail time

 

Definitely on board with you for the 2nd caveat but not for the 3rd; not sure about the 1st but leaning towards it. 

 

Unless law enforcement has some sort of probable cause they shouldn't be allowed to force someone to take off their mask. However, if they did / do, then not removing it could / should be a violation, but not a felony.

 

And, if on private property wearing a mask, the owner or his rep should be allowed to remove you for wearing a mask if there's a policy against it; but simply wearing a mask on somebody's property shouldn't by itself be punishable by jail time.

[Azalin]

If it should be legal to be masked but illegal to carry a weapon while doing so, how do we make that determination unless we simply stop and frisk people wearing masks? Remember that there are quite a few places that have laws already in place that make concealing your face in public illegal. So do we go after people wearing masks because they might have a legal weapon on their person, or do we respect gun ownership and allow people to arm themselves in public while keeping their faces hidden?

 

Personally, I think that a lot fewer Klansmen and antifa would have the nerve to incite violence if the world could see them doing so.

[/dev/null]

1 hour ago, Taro T said:

And, if on private property wearing a mask, the owner or his rep should be allowed to remove you for wearing a mask if there's a policy against it; but simply wearing a mask on somebody's property shouldn't by itself be punishable by jail time.

 

if somebody is on your private property you can ask them to leave.  if they refuse you can call the police on them for trespassing.  same with wearing a mask.  if you are wearing a mask on my property and i ask you to remove it, you have three options.  remove the mask, leave the property, or if you do neither i reserve the right to go gran torino on your ass

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Uncle Joe]

Portland’s police chief calls for anti-mask law, different approach for violent protesters
https://www.oregonlive.com/crime/2019/07/portlands-police-chief-calls-for-anti-mask-laws-different-approach-for-violent-protesters.html
"She called for a law that would bar the wearing of masks by demonstrators in the commission of crimes.

“We cannot allow people to continue to use the guise of free speech to commit a crime,’’ Outlaw said. “A lot of people are emboldened because they know they can’t be identified.’’

About 15 states, and some counties and cities, have adopted some type of anti-mask law. Most ban the wearing of masks in a way that intimidates others. Opponents have argued that such restrictions deprive people of anonymity they seek to express their views or that it couldn’t be enforced simply for political protests versus other displays, such as for Halloween celebrations or parties."

Personally I don't like the fact that these antifa thugs hide behind masks and carry items that can be used as weapons.

[Nanker]

On 7/3/2019 at 11:10 PM, Uncle Joe said:

Portland’s police chief calls for anti-mask law, different approach for violent protesters
https://www.oregonlive.com/crime/2019/07/portlands-police-chief-calls-for-anti-mask-laws-different-approach-for-violent-protesters.html
"She called for a law that would bar the wearing of masks by demonstrators in the commission of crimes.

“We cannot allow people to continue to use the guise of free speech to commit a crime,’’ Outlaw said. “A lot of people are emboldened because they know they can’t be identified.’’

About 15 states, and some counties and cities, have adopted some type of anti-mask law. Most ban the wearing of masks in a way that intimidates others. Opponents have argued that such restrictions deprive people of anonymity they seek to express their views or that it couldn’t be enforced simply for political protests versus other displays, such as for Halloween celebrations or parties."

Personally I don't like the fact that these antifa thugs hide behind masks and carry items that can be used as weapons.

Danielle Outlaw - what a name for a C.o.P.  

[Tiberius]

DMV databases become part of unprecedented surveillance infrastructure

 

The FBI and ICE have turned state driver’s license databases into a facial-recognition gold mine, scanning through millions of Americans’ photos without their knowledge or consent, newly released documents show.

• By Drew Harwell

[Koko78]

Identity is not a protected privacy interest.

[Uncle Joe]

On 7/5/2019 at 6:37 AM, Nanker said:

Danielle Outlaw - what a name for a C.o.P.  

Portland has plenty of C.o.P. Outlaws:
 

Family ties keep Outlaw living in metro area
https://pamplinmedia.com/pt/12-sports/352221-221079-family-ties-keep-outlaw-living-in-metro-area

"There are two pieces of irony regarding the arrest.

One, his father is a former assistant chief of the Starkville Police Department.

Two, Travis is a legend in his hometown. Since his early years in the NBA, he has played host to an annual Travis Outlaw Day, an outdoor summer event featuring food, games and activities for youth. In 2013, the Starkville Parks Commission renamed a gymnasium at the Starkville Sportsplex in Outlaw's honor."

Edited July 8, 2019 by Uncle Joe

[Reality Check]

On 7/1/2019 at 11:51 PM, Azalin said:

I'm curious as to what all of you think. Many places in the US actually have anti-mask laws on the books, but I don't know if any are enforced. From what I've read, many (if not most) were enacted as a measure against the KKK hiding their identities; some were passed as a way to discourage anonymous acts of violence in union/management and tenant/landlord disputes.  More recently, we've had the 99 percenters with their V masks, and now antifa with their ski masks. All concealing their identities in public to avoid being identified as having engaged in violence upon others.

 

Would the violence drop dramatically, if at all, if nobody was allowed to hide their faces in public? Would denying citizens the ability to mask themselves in public be a violation of their constitutional liberties?

 

[Azalin]

10 hours ago, Reality Check said:

 

 

Typical.